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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Would you pay for a Premium MMO experience?

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121 posts found
  Vermillion_Raventhal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/01/04
Posts: 1031

9/07/13 6:45:34 PM#21
Originally posted by Jacxolope
Originally posted by Vermillion_Raventhal
Depends on what I would be getting. 25 a month for quality game play isn't that much. Hell I look for games to help me budget gas and other things that have me spending much more money like 50 bucks to see a 2 hour movie with family.

Totally agree.

Hell, I would easily pay $30 /month if the game merited it and had no Ca$h $hop- Period.

My sister will not get a sub game my nephew but drops around $30/moth on a "free to play" garbage game- I seee this all the time. On his birthday she bought him a game card and he blew close to $50 in a DAY on virtual trinkets- Christmas, same thing...  Plus a portion of his allowence money goes to "free realms" (he is little-).

Now, she makes him earn his money and the kid isnt a spoiled brat (to clarify) but if you take yearly what she drops in a "free game" its probably far more than $30/month. 

Give me a payment and include EVERYTHING (even cosmetic items...) in a good game, with depth - And I would not complain a bit. The problem (as I see it) is that there isnt much right now worth even $10.00/month.

-I broke down and started playing a F2P and I spend $15- $20/month (same as I would on a sub) but I see people dropping HUNDREDS!!! I would think my $15- $20 would be around average but it isnt. There are totally free players (who cannot really progress and are just casuals) and then there are "White Whales" who have more money than common sense- Granted I am happy to have a few in my Faction but....

 

I could see myself spending money in a F2P if it was something I would play long term.  I just rather have everything up front.  It's like paying 30-40 bucks to go to big theme park or get nickled and dimed at a carnival for tickets for each and every ride.   

 

Most F2P games are not long term content so I can't really justify paying money for pretty ponies and character slots.

  Xthos

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/18/10
Posts: 2650

9/07/13 6:47:03 PM#22

Yes, without hesitation, if it was worth it, for what we have been getting?  No.

 

I am not even set on expansions being free, but if future content was free, that would be a bonus, and if it was the best mmo I ever played, I would be fine with $50/mo with the free expansions.

 

People will say it is crazy, but hell I spend that much on things I wouldn't enjoy nearly as much or spend 1/10th the time with.  My cable/phone/internet/Netflix probably approaches $250 for me and the wife.

 

P2P doesn't scare me, and f2p doesn't entice me, most stuff I wouldn't even play if they got rid of the cash shop.  I have zero interest in jumping around to free games.

  sonicbrew

Novice Member

Joined: 7/25/03
Posts: 518

9/07/13 6:51:19 PM#23
Absolutely if a game  came out that warranted such a cost. Heck, I would even pay more for a stellar experience.

“Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go back in the same box.” ~ Italian proverb

  Morrok

Novice Member

Joined: 12/26/08
Posts: 132

9/07/13 6:56:32 PM#24

Very short version:
Badly worded, missing choices.
As it is offered, my answer would be "no".


.
Detailed answer:


Originally posted by Slapshot1188
People spend 40+ hours a week playing games. 160+ hours a month. That's under 10 cents per hour.


I don't know about your life, but i *do* know that (even though it doesn't feel like that sometimes) the majority of players is falling into the "got a job" and perhaps even "got a family" category.
These people certainly do NOT play 40hrs a week.
They spend 40+ hours at their JOB, not in a game.
8 to 10 is more like it, in extreme cases perhaps 20, counting long weekend sessions.
And even that much is leading to family issues because it's taking away from the quality time that's rare enough these days.


Originally posted by Slapshot1188
I don't think it's possible to create enough quality content to keep up with the rate of consumption and stick to a $15 price point. Heck, I don't know if $25 could do it.


The price of a sub isn't the deciding factor if it's enough to cover expenses and leave enough for development and margin too, the number of subscribers at a given price for a given product is.
So yes, the subscription price does naturally figure in, but so do other factors.
looking at the sub price is falling too short, the whole package must be looked at.

Now, you have stated a few interesting points about what you define as "premium".
But i was missing in that list the background research of the marketability of the product.
Crafting system? (does it include the crafters)
PvP? what type, how? (which crowd are you serving, can't please all)
Economy?
Stuff like that.

Any package (the game and the service around it as you defined as "premuim" above) has also to compete for, and in most cases share with other activities, the player's time.
A picture i like is comparing a game to going to the movies.
And a game sub, if it's to compete with other activities for my money shouldn't cost more, in absolute numbers, not relatively speaking.

It is easy to say "i would pay more", people do say the same thing about organic food.
But if they are in a supermarket, and given the choice between cheaper conventional and more expensive organic food, most people buy the cheaper one.
Same is true for games - true "stand apart features", that only THIS ONE game has and which would "warrant" a higher price, are seldom to non-existant.

Raise the sub, and other activities will become more attractive.
Even moreso, if you consider that many a player - especially with a family - does include the family/kids (if he wants to keep playing "his" game, he'd better!) and the sub cost is multiplied by 2 or 3.


20EUR/USD isn't much, yes.
25EUR/USD isn't that much more (but still 25% more!).
But even small amounts of money are a lot when the times are hard.
Look at Greece, Portugal - heck look at the US middle-class which is disappearing.
A sub is the first "optional" thing (or second after going to the movies) to save, the choice is easier the higher the sub price is.

So we're at the core of the pricing issue (which is valid for any tradeable product):
Where is the price at which the sold products make the most money?
As price goes up, demand naturally goes down so overall revenue might be higher at a lower price.
And that's what i think is true with sub prices when comparing 15 to 20 or 25EUR/USD.


Originally posted by Slapshot1188
Flip side to this might also be to include an option to purchase X hours at a time for people that do not play large amounts of time. So a truely casual player who can only play 10 hours a week might be able to purchase 40 hours gametime for $15 or so.


A "truly casual" (timewise spoken) player has an online time of perhaps 2-4hours a week, for the above-mentioned reasons.

And "renting" the game for only a few hours isn't all that popular despite the (entertainment) industry trying to not only nudge but shove customers in that direction.
People really want to go online when they can, without having to consider additional costs, that's why "flatrates" (mobile phones, internet provider) and subscriptions are prefered.

  Morrok

Novice Member

Joined: 12/26/08
Posts: 132

9/07/13 7:04:36 PM#25


Originally posted by Utinni
Everquest did this with the Stormhammer server.


And failed.
Organic food, people!

  DamonVile

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4891

9/07/13 7:16:01 PM#26

A baby sitter costs more for one night, and we all know lots of bad parents think mmos make good baby sitters...so $25 a month isn't going to be a barrier to anyone. If it's good enough to charge $25/month those kids you don't want to see in your game will want to play it.

When has charging more = making more ?

The problem with mmos has never been the cost, it's always been the value.

  DMKano

Elite Member

Joined: 6/17/11
Posts: 5535

9/07/13 7:17:24 PM#27

This idea would fail horribly (and has failed already when EQ did it)

Why?

The psychology of human spending is why.

People who pay premium services have *higher expectations* on all fronts, better support, betterer peformance, better graphics, better gameplay, better everything.

This leads to disappointment because higher expectations are subjective and thus almost impossible to fullfill, unless there was a game that was head and shoulders better than anything on the market (doesn't exist).

 

So no it doesn't work, it leads to players canceling quickly because of unmet higher expectations.

 

  Rusque

Elite Member

Joined: 6/08/10
Posts: 1751

9/07/13 7:31:30 PM#28

I put just looking.

 

Speculating about this "premium" game that does everything unbelievably well is nice and all, but . . . show me the game.

It's a tall order to tell people that a game will cost more than other games on the market if it isn't obviously far and away a better game.

 

There four features don't mean much:

Polished game from day one

This shouldn't be premium, this is expected. The fact that we (gamers) allow games to release in such poor condition and then continue to give them money is our failing as consumers. When something is released for public consumption we should receive a working product. This is typically not the case, but that doesn't make this feature "premium." So no, I wouldn't pay more for this to happen, this should always be happening.

 

Fully developed game world with extensive lore

I'm not sure what this means. Actually, I know what you're saying . . . depth to races, history, deities, classes, environment and so on. But most games do this, at least in developer's minds. That's where you're going to run into issues between expectations and reality. If you ask Trion if they felt that Rift was fully developed with extensive lore, they would say yes. A good amount of people would agree with that too. But Rift is far from premium in this regard - it's actually quite mediocre. Just because something is developed and extensive doesn't mean you find value and quality in it.

 

Regular monthly content updates (sizeable)

This is something I feel safe in assuming, that we all want. But again, who determines sizable? ANET feels they give a lot of content in their biweekly updates. Again, the amount of work that goes into something might be quite sizeable, but how is it perceived by the gamers? Does "sizeable" equate to major WoW patches where you get a new raid and 2-3 new dungeons and a new zone? If it's something on that level, they'll need an army to produce it (and I don't think an extra $10 per person is going to pay for it).

Which is another issue being overlooked in the "premium MMO" desire. You think more money means more money goes to development. More money might mean bigger dividends to the investors, or funding a second team which works on another game, or general administration, or who knows what. This is again, something that would be out of our control - yes, you can just stop playing, but then you're right back here talking about wanting a game that satisfies you.

 

Plentiful GM interaction including GM run events in game

Could be cool, and I've seen in a few times in my many years playing MMO's, but just like the sizeable updates issue above, this costs money and what happens if this content isn't compelling enough to get enough player participation? I know it's supposed to a given, that it will be compelling in your dream MMO, but you can't dictate player behavior and if you make this content more valuable to player time, then people will ignore other content which would signal to the developers to stop spending time on that other content. It's a difficult balance and one of the major reasons we've seen MMO's take the direction they've taken.

Developers track players use of the game world and determine what is and isn't worth spending time/money on and they reduce or eliminate it completely.

 

Anyway, I'm not opposed to the idea of a premium MMO, but I'd have to see it before I believed it.

  VincerKaden

Novice Member

Joined: 8/12/06
Posts: 460

9/07/13 7:35:26 PM#29
Yes. I would pay even double that amount.

  Slapshot1188

Elite Member

Joined: 5/06/07
Posts: 4166

 
OP  9/07/13 7:45:33 PM#30
Originally posted by Morrok

 


Originally posted by Slapshot1188
People spend 40+ hours a week playing games. 160+ hours a month. That's under 10 cents per hour.



I don't know about your life, but i *do* know that (even though it doesn't feel like that sometimes) the majority of players is falling into the "got a job" and perhaps even "got a family" category.
These people certainly do NOT play 40hrs a week.
They spend 40+ hours at their JOB, not in a game.
8 to 10 is more like it, in extreme cases perhaps 20, counting long weekend sessions.
And even that much is leading to family issues because it's taking away from the quality time that's rare enough these days.

 

I have a job, and a family.  I spend probably 20-25 hours a week playing games and have zero trouble balancing any of the above.    I did not say EVERYBODY spends 40+ hours in a game, but many actually do.

 


Originally posted by Slapshot1188
I don't think it's possible to create enough quality content to keep up with the rate of consumption and stick to a $15 price point. Heck, I don't know if $25 could do it.



 

Now, you have stated a few interesting points about what you define as "premium".
But i was missing in that list the background research of the marketability of the product.
Crafting system? (does it include the crafters)
PvP? what type, how? (which crowd are you serving, can't please all)
Economy?
Stuff like that.

I would consider that none of the above things you mention have anything to do with whether a game is "premium".  Those items you list would determine if it was a game type that I would play, just like a decision on whether to play a sci-fi or fantasy game.

Any package (the game and the service around it as you defined as "premuim" above) has also to compete for, and in most cases share with other activities, the player's time.
A picture i like is comparing a game to going to the movies.
And a game sub, if it's to compete with other activities for my money shouldn't cost more, in absolute numbers, not relatively speaking.

So you can go spend (even at your minimal numbers above 8*4 weeks) 32 hours at a movie for $15?  Heck if that's true you are absolutely correct.  But actually we know that is not true and it's a silly argument to even try and make. you are actually making the argument that games should charge $15 to play them for a day...since that would equate with the movie experience in "absolute numbers"

It is easy to say "i would pay more", people do say the same thing about organic food.
But if they are in a supermarket, and given the choice between cheaper conventional and more expensive organic food, most people buy the cheaper one.
Same is true for games - true "stand apart features", that only THIS ONE game has and which would "warrant" a higher price, are seldom to non-existant.

Raise the sub, and other activities will become more attractive.
Even moreso, if you consider that many a player - especially with a family - does include the family/kids (if he wants to keep playing "his" game, he'd better!) and the sub cost is multiplied by 2 or 3.


Yes and there are literally hundreds unpon hundreds of options for people that cannot afford $25 sub fees.  In no way shape or form am I suggesting that every game must have a premium subscription.  I could play a new F2P game every day for a year and I would not run out of them. 

20EUR/USD isn't much, yes.
25EUR/USD isn't that much more (but still 25% more!).
But even small amounts of money are a lot when the times are hard.
Look at Greece, Portugal - heck look at the US middle-class which is disappearing.
A sub is the first "optional" thing (or second after going to the movies) to save, the choice is easier the higher the sub price is.

So we're at the core of the pricing issue (which is valid for any tradeable product):
Where is the price at which the sold products make the most money?
As price goes up, demand naturally goes down so overall revenue might be higher at a lower price.
And that's what i think is true with sub prices when comparing 15 to 20 or 25EUR/USD.

But the flip side is that when a pricepoint is utterly SATURATED, a smart brand can distiguish itself by providing a premium experience and charging for it.  We do not all drive Kias.  There is actually a robust market for premium cars.  Not for everyone, but a thriving market exists.

 


Originally posted by Slapshot1188
Flip side to this might also be to include an option to purchase X hours at a time for people that do not play large amounts of time. So a truely casual player who can only play 10 hours a week might be able to purchase 40 hours gametime for $15 or so.



A "truly casual" (timewise spoken) player has an online time of perhaps 2-4hours a week, for the above-mentioned reasons.

 

And "renting" the game for only a few hours isn't all that popular despite the (entertainment) industry trying to not only nudge but shove customers in that direction.
People really want to go online when they can, without having to consider additional costs, that's why "flatrates" (mobile phones, internet provider) and subscriptions are prefered.

 

Strange analogy.  I can drive to the store right now and buy a phone with T-Mobile.  I can buy a wide range of plans that stretch from unlimited voice/data, to X hours voice and X GB data, to pay by the day, to pay by the minute.  All of those exist from the same wireless phone company and all make sense for different people.  For instance my own phone is on an unlimited plan, my youngest childs is on a pay by the minute because he only needs it in an emergency.

See above

 

 

"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

  123443211234

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/08/07
Posts: 236

9/07/13 7:45:56 PM#31

Hell I'd go up to $50 a month if it was that good.  This also would entirely depend on there being no cash shop period, everything is actually earned in game.

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 19152

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

9/07/13 9:17:46 PM#32
Count me in, would gladly pay a premium for superior customer service and active GM/Moderation support.

Arrogant, Condescending, Dismissive, Elitist, you speak as if these are bad things?
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  madazz

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/07/03
Posts: 1312

9/07/13 9:18:55 PM#33

I would gladly pay for a premium MMO. For the first year or two that I played UO I remember plenty of GM interaction and random events. It's probably what kept everyone there. The GM interaction drastically died down before Trammel came out though.

I'd hope if paying that much there would be plenty of free content updates and not too many paid expansions per year. 

Either way, if it looks like I'd enjoy it, I'd give it a chance without hesitation.

  AlBQuirky

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/24/05
Posts: 3242

Tomorrow's just a future yesterday...

9/07/13 11:11:30 PM#34


Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by AlBQuirky
At that price, I would like (but highly doubt) free expansions when they come out.

Lineage 2 (prior to f2p) and EVE Online both offer free expansions at the standard sub price.

That's a trend I'd like to see catch on :) But cutting out profits seems so unbusinesslike...

- Al

Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
- FARGIN_WAR

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12387

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, Project Gorgon, and Combat Arms

9/08/13 12:44:31 AM#35
Originally posted by AlBQuirky


Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by AlBQuirky
At that price, I would like (but highly doubt) free expansions when they come out.


Lineage 2 (prior to f2p) and EVE Online both offer free expansions at the standard sub price.

That's a trend I'd like to see catch on :) But cutting out profits seems so unbusinesslike...

Is it cutting out or simply not tacking on? 

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  Frostvein

Novice Member

Joined: 7/11/13
Posts: 160

9/08/13 1:18:02 AM#36

Sure would.

 

Will probably never happen though.

  Gorilla

Old School

Joined: 6/07/04
Posts: 2218

9/08/13 1:44:24 AM#37

This is almost as naive a question as that posed in the thread "when did MMOs become all about making money".  Companies will select pricing models to maximise profits, simple as that. If 'pile it high sell it cheap' nets most profit that is what they will do even if their game is  more amazing than real life.

It is worth pointing out too, that budget and how 'good' a game is are pretty unrelated too.

This is really a 'fantasy' question, though the attached poll suggested it might not be meant that way.

 

  krage

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/22/11
Posts: 412

9/08/13 2:09:15 AM#38

Lets assume said premium game reached 2 million subscription players (consistent) at 20 dollars a month + initial box price of $60.

 

Box revenue = $120,000,000

Second month on of subs = $40,000,000

 

Can you imagine how much that kind of money can do for a game?

  • Instead of firing the staff post release you keep them on staff to release content at an insane pace
  • Create and/or license top notch tools for user generated content
  • Ample customer service
  • In game "Dungeon Masters" paid as professionals to drive server stories and quest
  • Huge E-Sport prizes
  • Out of game tools like apps or ARGs
I can't even imagine what else can go into the game with such a massive monthly budget, any little thing the fans want they can add in just because they would have the cash to burn lol.
 
 

  Nadia

Elite Member

Joined: 7/26/03
Posts: 11515

9/08/13 2:21:39 AM#39

EQ did something similar 10 years ago

the price?   $40.00 / month

this was back when EQ was only 10.00/month back in 2002

 

the legends server lasted 3 years and shutdown in 2005

http://www.gamespot.com/news/everquest-legends-qanda-2848677

  trikki

Novice Member

Joined: 8/21/09
Posts: 56

9/08/13 2:23:22 AM#40
Even if someone would made my dream mmo,i still refuse to pay more than 13e/month.
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