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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Who really wants to play a free game ..?

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258 posts found
  Deathbynoob

Novice Member

Joined: 9/04/13
Posts: 30

9/05/13 8:30:02 AM#121

Some food for thought, regarding subscription versus free to play models;

http://gamegeex.blogomancer.com/post/1349/gaming-mechanics-subscription-based-vs-free-to-play-mmos/ & http://www.gamebreaker.tv/chat-bubble/free-to-play-buy-to-play-or-subscription/

As for me, my biased view is that with previous subscription-based models there was a gaming-defined-by-the-gaming-community sense that we were getting a premium service. I cannot put it into words right now and expand it further, but there was a sense that we were getting exactly for what we were paying off most of the time. Whether it was from customer support response, to server maintenance, to updates to other things. I do understand that my opinion on this is controversial and highly debatable.

But subscription-based models in a way legitimized us gamers to be able to push out more and make our demands more justified since we were are paying the same amount for the same game. So as a whole, it games us the feeling that we were able to be more demanding and we expected companies to actually listen to us and not have to go through empty promises. It gave us an identity of power to act as a pressuring consumer group. 

On the other hand, free-to-play models has changed that perception turning into masses defending more and more the companies since "You are playing a game that is free. Ergo, you should not demand more than something that you didn't pay for". I simply do not think that are voices in free-to-play-models or buy-to-play are stronger right now nor our concerns because at the end of the day even if X number of players leave, others will arrive to taste the sweat honey of being a freeloader. I just do not think we can have more legit saying anymore than we used to have in the past.

One positive aspect of all types of free to play models is that casual players or hardcore players who can not invest the same amount of time they used to in comparison with every-day-8-hours-straight players is that they are able to always keep on par the game progress by throwing now and again a few bucks. Some gamers prefer to pay for things they do not want to waste their time on and progress from that while others prefer to use their cash flow and make their character more appealing. How each player spends his money is up to the gamer and no judgement should be made. It is private matters.

 

 

http://massauthority.blogspot.co.uk/

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19086

9/05/13 8:47:43 AM#122
Originally posted by Stone_Fountain
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Arclan

 



 

I meant that I prefer to dedicate myself to one MMORPG at a time, not two or more.

Sure you do.

I wonder how big of the market will do so. Personally i won't "dedicate" myself to any entertainment, not to mention MMORPGs.

Why not? People dedicate themselves to a TV show and to TV in general?

Because I prefer not to? There is so many types of entertainment i enjoy that i prefer to split my time between them. If so, i cannot say I "dedicate" myself to any entertainment. Real work, OTOH, is another matter.

Oh, don't get me wrong ... i will watch all the episodes of Homeland, Dexter, Arrow, (and likely the upcoming Agents of Shield) and even talk about them in some forum. But that is far from what i will call "dedication".

 

  Phelcher

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/01/09
Posts: 1133

 
OP  9/05/13 9:35:45 AM#123
Originally posted by Deathbynoob

Some food for thought, regarding subscription versus free to play models;

http://gamegeex.blogomancer.com/post/1349/gaming-mechanics-subscription-based-vs-free-to-play-mmos/ & http://www.gamebreaker.tv/chat-bubble/free-to-play-buy-to-play-or-subscription/

As for me, my biased view is that with previous subscription-based models there was a gaming-defined-by-the-gaming-community sense that we were getting a premium service. I cannot put it into words right now and expand it further, but there was a sense that we were getting exactly for what we were paying off most of the time. Whether it was from customer support response, to server maintenance, to updates to other things. I do understand that my opinion on this is controversial and highly debatable.

But subscription-based models in a way legitimized us gamers to be able to push out more and make our demands more justified since we were are paying the same amount for the same game. So as a whole, it games us the feeling that we were able to be more demanding and we expected companies to actually listen to us and not have to go through empty promises. It gave us an identity of power to act as a pressuring consumer group. 

On the other hand, free-to-play models has changed that perception turning into masses defending more and more the companies since "You are playing a game that is free. Ergo, you should not demand more than something that you didn't pay for". I simply do not think that are voices in free-to-play-models or buy-to-play are stronger right now nor our concerns because at the end of the day even if X number of players leave, others will arrive to taste the sweat honey of being a freeloader. I just do not think we can have more legit saying anymore than we used to have in the past.

One positive aspect of all types of free to play models is that casual players or hardcore players who can not invest the same amount of time they used to in comparison with every-day-8-hours-straight players is that they are able to always keep on par the game progress by throwing now and again a few bucks. Some gamers prefer to pay for things they do not want to waste their time on and progress from that while others prefer to use their cash flow and make their character more appealing. How each player spends his money is up to the gamer and no judgement should be made. It is private matters.

 

 

 

Revenues...   revenues..

 

But unfortunately, revenues only tell how well the Developers (& investors) like that game, not the players. Revenues do not decide how well a player likes subs, or item mall. Revenues are more based on marketing, than actual product. They might not even like the game they are playing, but it is free... and they are bored.

 

But, everything in those links was written by an oldschool peer. It adds very little to this conversation.

 

 

 

Buying items in game to keep the game afloat is the dumbest business model for a true MMORPG.  Great business model for a developer, so he doesn't get fired for misdeveloping RIFT.  But then again, RIFT wasn't worth monthly sub, & that's is why it went free to play. Because it had less worth, to the players. (It was worth free)

But RIFT has ZERO future so why would anyone continue to play when their character has no future? They play because it's an acrade game and the farthest thing from a premium game one can have.

 

 

 

I don't need to reward my character, with $5 gift, from myself. That is not a reward to him... Or to myself. It's just me spending $5 on a trinket, so I can feel good about my character

But, that doesn't change my character deeds, or add any more accomplishments to him. I could spend $500 the first day on my character.. after that, why play a free to play game after I am already moAr better than everyone else. Nobody is going to look or have what I have. I WIN. 

 

But, I can already do that in real life... and perhaps that is why children like item mall games, because it like playing house and they feel comfortable and can buy things that make them feel (personally) better. Because they can't buy that new car in real life... they will most certain buy that bad-azz flying Pegasus.

 

 

 

F2P = this:

Kids can't buy that Jet Ski they want, but Friday night they made up for it, by showing those in that dungeon.... when he spent $17 on that dark-metal shield, that his other teenage friends wanted & have been raving about @ school for weeks.. that he now has.

With that $17 he is the envy of someone... and that all that matters. (He is trying to serve his ego.)

 

VS

 

As an adult walks out of his house, gets in his Tahoe and trailers his boat to the water...  thinking about buying that new Jet Ski that just came out. Because he gave his old JetSki to a nephew..

 

 

That is the difference between a 17 year old (just starting out in life teenager)  VS   a 43 year old  who is a 18 year MMO veteran.

Simply put, someone making $50~$100k a year, a person is not concerned Or defined by a $5 trinket in a game. They are looking for the challenge & adventure...   adults can already go to the mall and buy all the crap we want, no need to do it in game. 

"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."


-Nariusseldon

  Cecropia

Gumshoe

Joined: 3/06/09
Posts: 3244

Poacher killer.

9/05/13 9:37:16 AM#124
Ten bucks says this thread turns into a heated debate about what "dedication" actually means, and whether or not it can be applied to MMO gaming. Have fun with that, guys.

"Chuck's a good fighter but he's a UFC fighter... this is Pride." - Quinton Rampage Jackson
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19086

9/05/13 9:56:10 AM#125
Originally posted by Cecropia
Ten bucks says this thread turns into a heated debate about what "dedication" actually means, and whether or not it can be applied to MMO gaming. Have fun with that, guys.

Isn't that why people are here? Have fun debating?

You don't think people are actually here to exchange ideas, learn and try to reach consensus, do you?

  Phelcher

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/01/09
Posts: 1133

 
OP  9/05/13 10:07:34 AM#126
Originally posted by Cecropia
Ten bucks says this thread turns into a heated debate about what "dedication" actually means, and whether or not it can be applied to MMO gaming. Have fun with that, guys.

 

er.. "Dedication" can be applied to anything.

 

There are dedicated crocheters in Russia...  & dedicated qigong master's in china..   & dedicated EQ crafters in Korea..  all making a living of their dedication.

But, that is all for another thread. (thnx for thread-crapping tho)

"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."


-Nariusseldon

  JasonJ

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/19/13
Posts: 414

9/05/13 10:10:42 AM#127
Originally posted by Phelcher

That is the difference between a 17 year old (just starting out in life teenager)  VS   a 43 year old  who is a 18 year MMO veteran.

Simply put, someone making $50~$100k a year, a person is not concerned Or defined by a $5 trinket in a game. They are looking for the challenge & adventure...   adults can already go to the mall and buy all the crap we want, no need to do it in game. 

 And the difference between a 43 year old that doesn't concern himself about tossing away small amounts of money and one who does is a 43 year old with a ton of money he is reinvesting so he can retire by the time he is 50.

Have fun working until you die.

Man, I really love people who think so highly of themselves yet put so little thought into life. So please, come back with $15 doesn't make a difference in the long run so I can come back and point out how you obviously don't limit your foolish spending to just MMOs.

Simply put, a fool and his money are soon parted.

  Adalwulff

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/18/10
Posts: 1191

"I am not the light, or the darkness, but the twilight in between"

9/05/13 10:11:27 AM#128

You hit it out of the park OP!!

I am one of those people you speak of, I have enough cash to fuel my gaming addiction, I just spent a few thousand on a trick new PC

It does seem odd that they forgot about us. They wont have to nickel and dime us, we are willing to pay up front!

Anyway, great post!

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19086

9/05/13 10:28:19 AM#129
Originally posted by Adalwulff

You hit it out of the park OP!!

I am one of those people you speak of, I have enough cash to fuel my gaming addiction, I just spent a few thousand on a trick new PC

It does seem odd that they forgot about us. They wont have to nickel and dime us, we are willing to pay up front!

Anyway, great post!

They didn't. You have the potential to be the perfect whale.

  Phelcher

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/01/09
Posts: 1133

 
OP  9/05/13 11:02:01 AM#130
Originally posted by JasonJ
Originally posted by Phelcher

That is the difference between a 17 year old (just starting out in life teenager)  VS   a 43 year old  who is a 18 year MMO veteran.

Simply put, someone making $50~$100k a year, a person is not concerned Or defined by a $5 trinket in a game. They are looking for the challenge & adventure...   adults can already go to the mall and buy all the crap we want, no need to do it in game. 

 And the difference between a 43 year old that doesn't concern himself about tossing away small amounts of money and one who does is a 43 year old with a ton of money he is reinvesting so he can retire by the time he is 50.

Have fun working until you die.

Man, I really love people who think so highly of themselves yet put so little thought into life. So please, come back with $15 doesn't make a difference in the long run so I can come back and point out how you obviously don't limit your foolish spending to just MMOs.

Simply put, a fool and his money are soon parted.

 

 

The difference between an adolescent looking up and being an adult, is...  knowing an adult's retirement is not based on whether or not he spent $300/year on a roleplaying game. How absurd!

 

 

Ten years @ $300/year is only $3k. (for ten years of entertainment)

I can spend $150 in one day attending an NFL ~ MLB game..   So, the cost of a premium game to an actual adult is miniscule. Specially if the've just spent $600 on their kids back-to-school garbage.

 

 

Don't you agree?

Or are you still trying to conceptualize a premium game from a child's perspective.. where the cost of the game is a concern? The people I am discussing and the market a premium game would pull are for those who have zero concern with the price,(no matter how high) & again, is the least of that player's concern.

 

 

 

 

What if there are elite games, that have a $1k buy-in...  no handbook, nothing your in... phucking play!

That's premium!

 

 

"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."


-Nariusseldon

  Corehaven

Novice Member

Joined: 7/27/11
Posts: 1574

I swear by my pretty floral bonnet, I will end you.

9/05/13 11:08:16 AM#131

I do. 

 

I'm 31 years old. 

 

I like Pirates of the Burning Sea, Star Trek Online, GW2 (or I used to), World of Tanks, and World of Planes. 

 

Have a good deal of fun in all of them.  My best friend from way back in college likes some of them too, and we play together some when we both have time.  I've also paid for games or paid monthlies.  However I didn't see a great divide in entertainment value between the two ( F2P and monthly ).  

 

I do like there are games I can download that day, and dive into without paying a red cent.  Once upon a time, that wasn't even a daydream.  It just wasn't a thing.  So it's pretty cool as far as I'm concerned.  No harm in it. 

  Dreamo84

Defender of Worlds

Joined: 5/20/04
Posts: 2721

I actually still like MMORPGs

9/05/13 11:21:28 AM#132

Check out Final Fantasy XIV's premium service...particularly the "premium" servers. I just love the way the OP is using the word premium to make P2P MMOs sound better. FFXIV is a fun game though, hoping the issues are finally fixed.

In this day and age there is zero difference in quality as a whole between P2P and F2P or B2P it all comes down to the individual game.

Lastly, why are they going F2P? Take a look, most of them started as P2P and weren't making enough money so they went F2P. And I am seriously sick of the "little kids taking daddy's credit card" remarks with F2P, why can't they do that with P2P too then?

Plenty of adults play F2P games. Sorry to burst your bubble. But you seem to think everyone plays a game because of it's payment model. But a lot of people (like me) could care less. I will play any good game regardless of pay structure.

  Dreamo84

Defender of Worlds

Joined: 5/20/04
Posts: 2721

I actually still like MMORPGs

9/05/13 11:24:18 AM#133
Originally posted by Phelcher
 

What if there are elite games, that have a $1k buy-in...  no handbook, nothing your in... phucking play!

That's premium!

 

 

I agree that price is premium, but the service would likely be awful for all 100 people crazy enough to pay that price lol.

  JasonJ

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/19/13
Posts: 414

9/05/13 11:43:40 AM#134
Originally posted by Phelcher
Originally posted by JasonJ

 And the difference between a 43 year old that doesn't concern himself about tossing away small amounts of money and one who does is a 43 year old with a ton of money he is reinvesting so he can retire by the time he is 50.

Have fun working until you die.

Man, I really love people who think so highly of themselves yet put so little thought into life. So please, come back with $15 doesn't make a difference in the long run so I can come back and point out how you obviously don't limit your foolish spending to just MMOs.

Simply put, a fool and his money are soon parted.

 

The difference between an adolescent looking up and being an adult, is...  knowing an adult's retirement is not based on whether or not he spent $300/year on a roleplaying game. How absurd!

 

 

Ten years @ $300/year is only $3k. (for ten years of entertainment)

I can spend $150 in one day attending an NFL ~ MLB game..   So, the cost of a premium game to an actual adult is miniscule. Specially if the've just spent $600 on their kids back-to-school garbage.

 The difference between and adult and a responsible adult is to at least have reading comprehension skills. Underlined the part of my post just for you...thanks though for proving I got you spot on.

As for the last part. 3k x (the many other things you waste your money on) will be over 50k for that 10 years. 50k invested by even a below average investor that can earn you around 30% of your investment a year can bring your 50k to 300k with no problems. And that is just with the money you throw away. I have been doing this for 20 years, taking the money I DONT NEED TO SPEND and re-investing it along side money I have been putting away normally.

Guess that's why I have a Model X ordered and am still looking to retire in 10 years...

50k x 30% = 15k,  65k x 30% = 19.5k,  84.5k x 30% = 25,350, 109,850 x 30% = 32,955, 142,805 x 30% = 42,841

5 years and 50k turns into 185,646. Subtract the 15% capital gains tax and you end up with 115,300 more. With just 5 years of investing...the more you have, the faster the gain. So much with your high opinion of being able to toss small amounts of money away without a thought.

  c0exist

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/13/13
Posts: 185

9/05/13 11:50:28 AM#135
I have been trained since mmorpg's existed that you pay a monthly sub.  When i see f2p I immediately get a sour taste for the game.  Its the main reason i am not considering EQN.  I pay to play an mmorpg just like a pay monthly for my car or my house.  Its a monthly bill when i play.  f2p is a gimmick and is for kids or those that just want instant fun from a random game.  An mmorpg is a game i stick with for years not days or weeks and you can only find that longevity from a sub game.  Not all sub games have longevity but any games with longevity have the sub and its not a coincidence.
  VengeSunsoar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4684

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

9/05/13 12:04:25 PM#136

I prefer not to pay monthly for my car, just save a few years and buy it for cash.

The idea of buying my house twice over a twenty year period really really bugs me.

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19086

9/05/13 12:12:12 PM#137
Originally posted by c0exist
I have been trained since mmorpg's existed that you pay a monthly sub.  When i see f2p I immediately get a sour taste for the game.  Its the main reason i am not considering EQN.  I pay to play an mmorpg just like a pay monthly for my car or my house.  Its a monthly bill when i play.  f2p is a gimmick and is for kids or those that just want instant fun from a random game.  An mmorpg is a game i stick with for years not days or weeks and you can only find that longevity from a sub game.  Not all sub games have longevity but any games with longevity have the sub and its not a coincidence.

For you may be. Others play D2 for years ... it has no sub .. and it is not even a MMO.

F2P is the only reason i will check out EQN.

  Drakynn

Novice Member

Joined: 3/02/08
Posts: 2051

9/05/13 12:16:33 PM#138
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

I prefer not to pay monthly for my car, just save a few years and buy it for cash.

The idea of buying my house twice over a twenty year period really really bugs me.

Your car analogy actually fits the P2P model.

Buying your car is the upfront cost.The ongoing costs of maintenance,licensing and Insurance is your sub fee paid in installments or in larger multi-monthly or yearly amounts.

  spaniard81

Novice Member

Joined: 7/31/12
Posts: 62

9/05/13 12:22:35 PM#139
Originally posted by c0exist
I have been trained since mmorpg's existed that you pay a monthly sub.  When i see f2p I immediately get a sour taste for the game.  Its the main reason i am not considering EQN.  I pay to play an mmorpg just like a pay monthly for my car or my house.  Its a monthly bill when i play.  f2p is a gimmick and is for kids or those that just want instant fun from a random game.  An mmorpg is a game i stick with for years not days or weeks and you can only find that longevity from a sub game.  Not all sub games have longevity but any games with longevity have the sub and its not a coincidence.

If we lived according to that philosophy with regards to all aspects of our lives, we would still be living in caves as hunter-gatherers; who needs a wheel when you can just hand carry food and rocks!

You guys can keep paying your fees, I'll play my F2P games (I do realize that GW2 is not technically F2P, since there is a one-time initial purchase fee; having said that, I play more than just GW2, all F2P though).

The notion that for a game to be worth playing it requires a monthly fee I think is currently being debunked by Anet. I believe that the future of mmorpgs is not P2P but a combination of B2P/F2P with cash shop. As to whether the cash shop ruins gameplay will depend on the studio developing the game; GW2 is a good example of a cash shop that does not ruin gameplay.

 

Play and let play!

  VengeSunsoar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4684

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

9/05/13 12:26:20 PM#140
Originally posted by Drakynn
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

I prefer not to pay monthly for my car, just save a few years and buy it for cash.

The idea of buying my house twice over a twenty year period really really bugs me.

Your car analogy actually fits the P2P model.

Buying your car is the upfront cost.The ongoing costs of maintenance,licensing and Insurance is your sub fee paid in installments or in larger multi-monthly or yearly amounts.

Sorry no.

He pays his car in monthly installments - the p2p model.

I pay my car at once - the b2p model.  Every once in awhile I need to do something to it - the cs or paid expansion model.

There is no monthly fee.

Licensing is once every 5 years, insurance is once a year - the cs/expansion model.

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

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