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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Story first, World first, Social first, or Gameplay first?

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120 posts found
  Quirhid

Elite Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 5874

Correcting wrongs on the Internet...

8/30/13 10:34:22 AM#41

Such a no-brainer... Gameplay of course. Gameplay is it. Gameplay is king. Everything else comes after. No story, world or social interation is going to save a game if the gameplay sucks.

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  DrCokePepsi

Novice Member

Joined: 12/18/12
Posts: 163

What I have shown you is reality. What you remember, that is the illusion.
~Sephiroth FFVII

8/30/13 11:24:55 AM#42


Originally posted by TheHavok
So what is the main draw for you?  Story, World, Social, or Gameplay?

We play MMOs, and video games in general, for different reasons.  Some of us love the story and the epicness of watching it unfold.  Some of us love being a part of a world besides our own and exploring it.  Some of us love being with a group of friends and accomplishing feats together.  And some of us just love controlling a character and demolishing everything in its path.

However, it does seem like MMOs, and some studios in general, try to specialize in one category over another.  SWTOR, by many accounts, had a great story and decent social experience, but was lacking in gameplay and world development.

Likewise, Eve Online has a fantastic World, a great social experience, but mediocre gameplay and not much story.

What aspect do you care about the most?



I say a good MMORPG is mostly world, gameplay, and social. In gameplay i mean content. Things to do with a group that leads to socialization and these things have to span a WORLD. But in total, I'd say MMORPG's would be a lot more succesful with a proper blend of them all.

If i had to choose a prime aspect though, gameplay such as PvP/dungeons/raids/housing/good class or no clss sytem/crafting/skills etc. all that is content without any of that there is no entertaining world or people to socialize with, its simply no good, nothing to do. It doesnt necessarily mean filled with crap quests, or the way the ui is set up.

  maplestone

Novice Member

Joined: 12/10/08
Posts: 3109

8/30/13 5:17:37 PM#43
Originally posted by Axehilt

 A world isn't a game.

But the world is the game.

  Mendel

Elite Member

Joined: 7/22/11
Posts: 725

8/30/13 6:00:31 PM#44
Story, world, social or gameplay?   I don't think any of those are 'first' when I choose to play a game.   I'll look at aspects of each of these areas and try to determine if I would enjoy the mix of features.  And the answer is going to depend a lot on what I want at that particular time.

Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  Alders

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/28/10
Posts: 1815

I cannot fiddle but I can make a great state of a small city.

8/30/13 6:03:20 PM#45
Story is by far the least important aspect of an MMO.
  Rusque

Elite Member

Joined: 6/08/10
Posts: 1998

8/30/13 6:10:59 PM#46
Originally posted by maplestone
Originally posted by Axehilt

 A world isn't a game.

But the world is the game.

I had to vote world too.

 

Great games have great worlds, gameplay is much more variable.

 

Look at the TES games. I think they have fairly poor gameplay. If I rated them on gameplay alone, they'd be a 4 or 5. The exploration, the NPC's have their own lives, choices, and so on make the game what it is.

World doesn't refer just to environment.

 

Mass Effect - mediocre gameplay, great world.

Dragon Age - sad gameplay ( a slower easier version of WoW with pausing enabled), but a pretty cool world.

Kingdoms of Amalur - great gameplay, pretty boring world (good lore and story ironically).

 

Ideally everything is top notch, but I much prefer a well thought out world with interesting things to do. Then you can stomach most styles of gameplay. If you have amazing gameplay but a poopy world, it's very difficult to stay motivated to play.

  Aysono

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/28/10
Posts: 164

8/30/13 6:18:50 PM#47
Look at what games are selling big now? The MOBAs, the mobiles, CoD, Skylanders and such. So obviously, gameplay is what players are going for first. Social games are still up there, yes, but they also need to have distinctive gameplay to pull them ahead of the other competitors in the same genre.
  Axehilt

Elite Member

Joined: 5/09/09
Posts: 7617

8/30/13 6:41:07 PM#48
Originally posted by maplestone

But the world is the game.

Not in the slightest.

If I give you the entire world (all of the source files) to the most elaborate game world out there, and let you float around it as a disembodied camera, but there's no gameplay, then there isn't a game.

Only the game rules (the gameplay) which limit your interaction to the world in interesting ways causes a game to be a game.

Without gameplay, there's no game.

  AlBQuirky

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/24/05
Posts: 3757

Tomorrow's just a future yesterday...

8/30/13 6:49:11 PM#49

Gameplay is tops for me. How it all "fits together" is what makes or breaks an MMO for me.

World is a close second. I yearn for a well fleshed-out world where my character and I can lose ourselves for hours on end.

Social is a distant third. Social, depends upon what is meant by "social." Character interdependency is important, but if I cannot play without the aid of others, my interest wanes fast. Being social should be like the old BASF commercials. "We don't make the <product>, we make it better." Being social should make the MMO more enjoyable, not be a staple of its mechanics.

The last thing I ever look for in an MMO is story. Lore is a different subject, though. I play single player games where my actions can actually effect the game and its story. This can not be done with thousands of players playing the same story without a humongous set of blinders on.

- Al

Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
- FARGIN_WAR

  AlBQuirky

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/24/05
Posts: 3757

Tomorrow's just a future yesterday...

8/30/13 7:32:23 PM#50


Originally posted by Axehilt

Originally posted by maplestone
But it doesn't make more sense, that's my point.  Your argument is that a focus on a world makes a dull game.  I could just as easily say a focus on gameplay makes a dull game, because in this genre the game is not the gameplay, the game is the world.   Just look at a gameplay in any successful MMO, look at what it actually is to kill ten rats or to mine an asteriod ... it's not fantastic gameplay, it's filler.    It only has value to a player because of the context the world gives to those actions.

( edit: I'm not trying to argue that gameplay is irrelevent or that my point of view is an objective truth...  it's just that I personally don't log in to mash buttons, I log in step through the wardrobe into the forest on the other side )



But chat isn't a game.  A world isn't a game.  Whereas gameplay is the game.

If we look at the actual gameplay involved in the most successful MMOs, we'll notice that the one that blew the rest out of the water had the highest quality gameplay (even though the world and social elements weren't as well-developed as some of the others.)

Is MMO gameplay going to be a little worse than a non-MMO of the same genre?  Sure.  And when the unique MMO advantages fail to make up for that gameplay disadvantage, they sell worse.  This happens pretty often, and has always been a natural limit to MMOs' success, since it's rare for players to value the supporting game elements more than gameplay (see poll results -- and those are MMORPG players, not general players who value gameplay even more.)



There you go confusing your opinion with facts again.

*You* may think that a "world" is NOT a game. Does not make it a fact. I happen to think a world IS a game.

*You* may not think "chat" is a game, but I know of plenty of people who frequent chatrooms posing as a different person and play games with others in the room. I happen to agree with your opinion that "chat" is not a game, but I disagree that everyone and their fish thinks the same.

Know why I have played over 2000 hours in Skyrim with more than 20 characters? The world. I still have not been everywhere there is to be. The gameplay is good, which helps a lot, but it is the world that keeps me playing.

I just read a later response where you said,
"If I give you the entire world (all of the source files) to the most elaborate game world out there, and let you float around it as a disembodied camera, but there's no gameplay, then there isn't a game."
Bullcrap. Maybe *you* could not find a game in there, but *I* certainly could. Off the top of my head, "Bumper Cameras" comes to mind. "What's That Over There" is another game I could play. "How High Is The Sky?" is another game.

Certainly gameplay adds to the game, and I agree it is very important, but your "absolute" is falling very short.

You must have been a very boring child, with no imagination.

- Al

Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
- FARGIN_WAR

  crack_fox

Novice Member

Joined: 7/09/04
Posts: 402

8/30/13 8:03:59 PM#51

The only really important measurement is the 'game' experience. World, story, gameplay etc all factor into this to varying degrees, but a weakness in one factor can be partially or wholly compensated for by strength in another. TOR makes up for its derivative game mechanics and static worlds by giving great story. And while I consider story to be of lesser importance in an MMO, Bioware demonstrated that you can still create an enjoyable and engaging game experience by providing superior story arcs for players. So it isn't necessarily a matter of which factor is most important, but how the various ingredients combine to make a satisfying experience for the player.  

 

Of course, what each player finds most satisfying is entirely subjective, and we all have our preferences. Personally, I am more interested in exploring virtual worlds than I am in video gaming. By 'worlds' I don't just mean the landmass, but also the lore, the races and the cultures that create an interesting virtual environment. So I am far more forgiving of a MMO that offers me a large and fascinating world, even if the 'gameplay' side of it is lacking or even broken (e.g. Vanguard).

 

In certain respects, the game itself is simply a hindrance to my goal of exploration. In many MMOs, the game presents itself in the form of a sequence of obstacles to be completed before the players is granted access to the next bit of world. The game becomes the 'work', the world becomes the reward. So gameplay is only important to me to the extent that it makes this task less of an ordeal. Ultimately, the need to provide large amounts of 'content' to keep voracious players occupied for long periods of time tends to result in game systems based on repetition and tedium. When I simply want to play a fun video game, I boot up MAME or an FPS. 

 

Social factors are not especially important to me any more due to the varied types of players that MMOs now attract. A good community can make a virtual world a more attractive place to spend time, but as developers promote inclusion to improve their profit margins the quality of the community suffers. I have no problem with games supporting solo play-styles at the expense of player interdependency. So 'social' comes last for me.

  bbopice

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/10/07
Posts: 10

8/30/13 10:16:41 PM#52

ITEMS < for sure number 1 ,   but Gameplay  and World numbers 2 and 3 :))  . 

 

No level reqs on items =    players stay playing your game 3 X  longer!   people that twink alts.  play forever and grind twink gear for ages.!    RARe bosses.  rare items , secret stuff.  like 3 piece sets that open hidden places. etc etc etc etc.   

prenerfed items!@!<<<<    items that got nerfed but orginals stayed.

GM event ,< rare one time event items!

I can keep going no  time.   

But when it comes down to it.  The way Items are handled  is the most important thing of all.      No AH's  .No level reqs.   No lame worthless Crafting recipes. that 1000,000 people sell the same item below cost.

Items include ,,,, spell drops ,  crafting drops , magic items , quest rewards ,  < should  not gear up by lame quest grinding , quest hubs suck.     

 

 

Gameplay <  Smoooooooooth   and o yeah smooooth fun spells ,,  like fear , invis , speed buffs , etc etc 

 

MASSIVE WORLD ,   Not One game is Massive yet.   I'd say at most small to tiny .    I want a world ,  not something that i can run across in a few hours  or w/e 

JUst Frickin copy paste that stuff ,  not that hard ,  add  a few changes bam ,..   hugge worlds.   make D3  games with everyone in it. etc.

mmorpg focus on the fine details tooo much. of the graphics.

 

 

eq had 200 people on the screen at one time in 1999.  AND in 2013 We still can't have over 200 people on a screen or  in a zone at a time.    so lame .   Lower that fine detailed over paid for world down.   

 

I'm right.     Sell Prenerfed twink items in any cash shop and they'd selllll soooo fast for tons.

Game companies or so damm dumb  .  they need me :P  

 

Don't lie to yourselfs ,   the overall population would love what i am saying.   they don't admit it though.

 

www.myspace.com/solidwhitetuna

  Palebane

Novice Member

Joined: 10/18/04
Posts: 3247

8/30/13 10:27:27 PM#53
I voted social. I can get superior gameplay, story, and world from single player games. The social aspect is the only thing that sets MMORPGs apart from the rest, in my opinion. This genre was born with nothing more than a chatscreen and some dice modifieres. The rest is fluff for me.

Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.

  maplestone

Novice Member

Joined: 12/10/08
Posts: 3109

8/30/13 10:31:22 PM#54
Originally posted by Axehilt

Without gameplay, there's no game.

And yet I've wandered around minecraft just exploring different random seeds without breaking a single block. 

Even in your reduced-to-absurdity scenario, I'm still finding a love of worlds.

  Axehilt

Elite Member

Joined: 5/09/09
Posts: 7617

8/31/13 1:37:55 AM#55
Originally posted by AlBQuirky

There you go confusing your opinion with facts again.

*You* may think that a "world" is NOT a game. Does not make it a fact. I happen to think a world IS a game.

*You* may not think "chat" is a game, but I know of plenty of people who frequent chatrooms posing as a different person and play games with others in the room. I happen to agree with your opinion that "chat" is not a game, but I disagree that everyone and their fish thinks the same.

Know why I have played over 2000 hours in Skyrim with more than 20 characters? The world. I still have not been everywhere there is to be. The gameplay is good, which helps a lot, but it is the world that keeps me playing.

I just read a later response where you said,
"If I give you the entire world (all of the source files) to the most elaborate game world out there, and let you float around it as a disembodied camera, but there's no gameplay, then there isn't a game."
Bullcrap. Maybe *you* could not find a game in there, but *I* certainly could. Off the top of my head, "Bumper Cameras" comes to mind. "What's That Over There" is another game I could play. "How High Is The Sky?" is another game.

Certainly gameplay adds to the game, and I agree it is very important, but your "absolute" is falling very short.

You must have been a very boring child, with no imagination.

This isn't an opinion.

If I give you a game world to free-float around in as a disembodied camera, you won't be playing a game.

Until you add gameplay, it's not a game.  You almost suggested adding gameplay towards the end of your post, but the examples you gave weren't gameplay (any more than a painter who asks, "How red can I make the sky before it looks weird?" is playing a game.  Obviously that's not a game, it's just experimentation.)  If you'd suggested gameplay, like modding the game rules so that touching the lava kills you and you have to jump between rocks in the lava flow, then you would have added gameplay and made it a game.

It's fine if exploring the world is your favorite part of the game, but there's no opinions involved in stating simple facts like (a) the world isn't the game and (b) gameplay is the game.

  Axehilt

Elite Member

Joined: 5/09/09
Posts: 7617

8/31/13 1:59:36 AM#56
Originally posted by maplestone

And yet I've wandered around minecraft just exploring different random seeds without breaking a single block. 

Even in your reduced-to-absurdity scenario, I'm still finding a love of worlds.

Nobody said you can't love worlds.

I'm only pointing out what should be excessively obvious: without gameplay there is no game.  Gameplay is the game.  The world isn't the game, and chat isn't the game.  A world without gameplay is basically a level editor.  Chat without gameplay is just a chatroom.  Without gameplay there's no game.

So depending on your level of engagement with Minecraft seeds, you might not be playing a game at all (if using a free-floating camera.)

Which is fine.  People paint.  People meditate.  People do all sorts of things that aren't games, and manage to love them.

But they don't claim those things are games.

  maplestone

Novice Member

Joined: 12/10/08
Posts: 3109

8/31/13 3:19:41 AM#57
Originally posted by Axehilt

I'm only pointing out what should be excessively obvious: without gameplay there is no game.

If you want to claim the mere act of walking through a game and looking at things falls under your definition of "gameplay" then ok, but then I don't understand what exactly are you leaving behind to fulfill the definition of "world". 

 

  jdlamson75

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 12/27/08
Posts: 948

There's some lovely filth down here.

8/31/13 3:32:59 AM#58

As I could only vote for one, I chose "World".

 

I might be alone in this, but the way the world seizes me defines my gameplay.  The mechanics can be a bit off, but if the world itself is engaging, I can forgive the gameplay.  If the world is of generic origin, I'll know right off he bat that it isn't meant for me.

 

 

  xeniar

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/09/06
Posts: 822

8/31/13 3:44:02 AM#59

Humz alot of people seem to be confused about what an MMORPG is or should be.

for any normal game gameplay comes first and if you have stunning grapichs to boot wel thats awesome.

For an MMORPG what defines the game is the world you play in. there are now countless MMORPG's with the exact same features. What makes them diffrent is the world you (live) in. How you can react with that world is determened by gameplay but if the world is really lacking then you might have the best gameplay on our planet. that game will fail.

  rojoArcueid

Elite Member

Joined: 8/13/09
Posts: 6038

"It is double pleasure to deceive the deceiver". - Niccolo Machiavelli

8/31/13 3:58:46 AM#60

OP, your poll is missing one option.... All Four.

 

IF you are making an mmo that have those four features included you want to do all of them right. If you focus on just making one of them strong then the rest of the game will be garbage filled with mediocre and weak content.

 

In my opinion that mentality of one preferred feature is what is hurting the most in the mmo industry. That is what happens with most of these latest mmos that claim to have one glorious feature that will change your life forever (Tera's combat, Swtors storytelling, etc) then the rest of the game is beyond mediocre and generic.

 

Creating mmos take too much time and effort. If you are not going to focus on making all features strong then dont waste your time and effort making a bad mmo.

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