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General Discussion  » ESO is 150 hrs of content enough ?

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85 posts found
  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3703

8/29/13 2:25:02 PM#41
Originally posted by Piiritus
Originally posted by Iselin

There are no instanced raids and the number of instanced dungeons with "heroic" difficulty is small... does this look like a PVE game to you guys? The extra content in the other alliance areas here is just more 50+ solo content... think "dailies" but better.

 

2, 3, 400 PVE soloish Skyrim-like content hours... that can be done when you're not playing the real game, the AvA in Cyrodiil... more than enough.

 

I know, I know, that's not their PR focus at the moment... "It's just like a single player TES game... but with friends!"

 

The only content in this game where grouping and coordination of raid-sized groups is necessary is the AVA in Cyrodiil. That's a big clue there. That's where this game walks the "true MMO" walk.

 

If you've been following this game since the original announcement like some of us here have, you'd know that the focus is still PVP but when they were up-front in emphasizing that, there was a whole shit-storm of negativity from the "true TES fans." The most common post here for months was "TES is not a PVP IP. Why are they letting a bunch of DAoC dev rejects pervert ESO?"

 

So their smart spin doctors in the PR department decided to change their marketting approach. They added a full-fledged TES-like 1st person view and started promoting the similarities to single player TES like crazy... meanwhile, back in the game feature development real world, nothing had changed - and it still hasn't. It's the same PVP-centric game it has always been. 

 

The 100's of hours you spend in Cyrodiil PVPing is where the real "content-hours" of this game are. And provided they do a good job with that content, these PVE hours you're discussing here are a drop in the bucket of total game hour potential.

 

If you're going into this MMO for PVE only, sooner or later you will get to the end of the content and then want more. It may take you 3 or 6 months, but you'll get there. It's inevitable in PVE MMOs. Thank goodness this isn't one of those 

Sorry but what can I get if I don't care about PvP? Some solo gameplay, ok. You PvP folks amaze me in so many ways - first you are satisfied with just an area where you can gank/zerg each other, then you complain that there are not enough carrots to follow. I honestly think that the biggest problem ESO has are former Daoc devs who actually don't care about anything other than PvP crap. 

I really don't care to revisit this debate despite your baits. Just telling you what this game really is all about. You can like it, you can hate it, you can rant and even use it as a vehicle to display your contempt for people that are different from you. i... do... not... care.

It's a PVP game. If you don't think it is, well, the bamboozeled and marketted is strong with you.

  artemisentr4

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/25/08
Posts: 1437

8/29/13 2:29:13 PM#42
Originally posted by Iselin

There are no instanced raids and the number of instanced dungeons with "heroic" difficulty is small... does this look like a PVE game to you guys? The extra content in the other alliance areas here is just more 50+ solo content... think "dailies" but better.

 

2, 3, 400 PVE soloish Skyrim-like content hours... that can be done when you're not playing the real game, the AvA in Cyrodiil... more than enough.

 

I know, I know, that's not their PR focus at the moment... "It's just like a single player TES game... but with friends!"

 

The only content in this game where grouping and coordination of raid-sized groups is necessary is the AVA in Cyrodiil. That's a big clue there. That's where this game walks the "true MMO" walk.

 

If you've been following this game since the original announcement like some of us here have, you'd know that the focus is still PVP but when they were up-front in emphasizing that, there was a whole shit-storm of negativity from the "true TES fans." The most common post here for months was "TES is not a PVP IP. Why are they letting a bunch of DAoC dev rejects pervert ESO?"

 

So their smart spin doctors in the PR department decided to change their marketting approach. They added a full-fledged TES-like 1st person view and started promoting the similarities to single player TES like crazy... meanwhile, back in the game feature development real world, nothing had changed - and it still hasn't. It's the same PVP-centric game it has always been. 

 

The 100's of hours you spend in Cyrodiil PVPing is where the real "content-hours" of this game are. And provided they do a good job with that content, these PVE hours you're discussing here are a drop in the bucket of total game hour potential.

 

If you're going into this MMO for PVE only, sooner or later you will get to the end of the content and then want more. It may take you 3 or 6 months, but you'll get there. It's inevitable in PVE MMOs. Thank goodness this isn't one of those 

They will have "adventure zones" for 24 player content and small group content in there as well. But we don't know enough about them yet to really know if that will be something to do over and over. I don't think there will be a true raid instance, but that could change. And yes, they want the SPG fans to have a game to play as well. It will be the 1 to 50, the 50+ and 50++ along with crafting. But you are right that the part of the game that will keep players coming back may end up being the AvA. If they get it right. Ofc it could be perfect and players will still complain.

“How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?”
R.A.Salvatore

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3703

8/29/13 2:39:32 PM#43
Originally posted by artemisentr4
 

They will have "adventure zones" for 24 player content and small group content in there as well. But we don't know enough about them yet to really know if that will be something to do over and over. I don't think there will be a true raid instance, but that could change. And yes, they want the SPG fans to have a game to play as well. It will be the 1 to 50, the 50+ and 50++ along with crafting. But you are right that the part of the game that will keep players coming back may end up being the AvA. If they get it right. Ofc it could be perfect and players will still complain.

You're right. The "Adventure Zones" could provide repeatable PVE end-game content. And I'm sure I will check those out too.

 

My main point however is that PVE by its nature is content-driven and open-world-like PVP like this isn't. The "quantity of content" discussions have more relevance in PVE-centric games... i.e., most themeparks. It's less relevant here.

 

The Cyrodiil AVA will be either repeatable for its own sake or it won't. DAoC had the only PVP game play that has held my attention for a long time. That's what they're trying to replicate here. Only time will tell how well they do it.

  Siug

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/02/12
Posts: 971

8/29/13 2:40:18 PM#44
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Piiritus
Originally posted by Iselin

There are no instanced raids and the number of instanced dungeons with "heroic" difficulty is small... does this look like a PVE game to you guys? The extra content in the other alliance areas here is just more 50+ solo content... think "dailies" but better.

 

2, 3, 400 PVE soloish Skyrim-like content hours... that can be done when you're not playing the real game, the AvA in Cyrodiil... more than enough.

 

I know, I know, that's not their PR focus at the moment... "It's just like a single player TES game... but with friends!"

 

The only content in this game where grouping and coordination of raid-sized groups is necessary is the AVA in Cyrodiil. That's a big clue there. That's where this game walks the "true MMO" walk.

 

If you've been following this game since the original announcement like some of us here have, you'd know that the focus is still PVP but when they were up-front in emphasizing that, there was a whole shit-storm of negativity from the "true TES fans." The most common post here for months was "TES is not a PVP IP. Why are they letting a bunch of DAoC dev rejects pervert ESO?"

 

So their smart spin doctors in the PR department decided to change their marketting approach. They added a full-fledged TES-like 1st person view and started promoting the similarities to single player TES like crazy... meanwhile, back in the game feature development real world, nothing had changed - and it still hasn't. It's the same PVP-centric game it has always been. 

 

The 100's of hours you spend in Cyrodiil PVPing is where the real "content-hours" of this game are. And provided they do a good job with that content, these PVE hours you're discussing here are a drop in the bucket of total game hour potential.

 

If you're going into this MMO for PVE only, sooner or later you will get to the end of the content and then want more. It may take you 3 or 6 months, but you'll get there. It's inevitable in PVE MMOs. Thank goodness this isn't one of those 

Sorry but what can I get if I don't care about PvP? Some solo gameplay, ok. You PvP folks amaze me in so many ways - first you are satisfied with just an area where you can gank/zerg each other, then you complain that there are not enough carrots to follow. I honestly think that the biggest problem ESO has are former Daoc devs who actually don't care about anything other than PvP crap. 

I really don't care to revisit this debate despite your baits. Just telling you what this game really is all about. You can like it, you can hate it, you can rant and even use it as a vehicle to display your contempt for people that are different from you. i... do... not... care.

It's a PVP game. If you don't think it is, well, the bamboozeled and marketted is strong with you.

Aye I believe that this is a PvP game and that Daoc gang flushed ES down the toilet. Sad really, and I'm not even a ES fan. Just cannot play PvP games due to vile community they tend to have. I can as well stop following ESO I think, just sad some Daoc devs were allowed to defile this IP.

  Eol-

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/22/06
Posts: 272

8/29/13 3:39:40 PM#45
Originally posted by Piiritus

Aye I believe that this is a PvP game and that Daoc gang flushed ES down the toilet. Sad really, and I'm not even a ES fan. Just cannot play PvP games due to vile community they tend to have. I can as well stop following ESO I think, just sad some Daoc devs were allowed to defile this IP.

Well its a little overdramatic to say that someone 'flushed down the toilet' or 'defiled' a game that is 6 months from release???

I suspect there will be a lot for people to do in ESO even if you choose not to PvP in the endgame. That being said, I am sure glad they picked the route they did, and didn't pull a WoW (endless repeats of endgame dungeon raids to get top gear) or SWTOR (not much of an endgame once you finish the storyline). The bottom line is that when making an RPG into a MMORPG, they need some sort of endgame to make it successful after the first 6 months or so, and since an RPG has no real endgame (the story just ends), ANY endgame they chose would be a big change from ES RPG. 

Elladan - ESO (AD)
Camring - SWTOR (Ebon Hawk)
Eol & Justinian - Rift (Faeblight)
Ceol and Duri - LotRO (Landroval)
Kili - WoW
Eol - Lineage 2
Camring - SWG
Justinian (Nimue), Camring - DAoC

  Markusan

Novice Member

Joined: 4/13/06
Posts: 92

8/29/13 3:49:47 PM#46

I don't get it.. Why do games have you level so fast nowadays? It takes 100-200 hours to reach max level and then players will start leaving the game after spedning a few weeks raiding and PvPing, which gets old fast. If leveling was intended to take 2 years of grinding/questing, 40 hours a week, 52 weeks per year, it would give the developers time to crank out new content before the players started complaining and leaving. The leveling will make 80+ % of the content obsolete after a few weeks.

 

seems like no PvE game gets things right.. Its all about the race to the end game which always suck...

  artemisentr4

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/25/08
Posts: 1437

8/29/13 4:19:39 PM#47
Originally posted by Markusan

I don't get it.. Why do games have you level so fast nowadays? It takes 100-200 hours to reach max level and then players will start leaving the game after spedning a few weeks raiding and PvPing, which gets old fast. If leveling was intended to take 2 years of grinding/questing, 40 hours a week, 52 weeks per year, it would give the developers time to crank out new content before the players started complaining and leaving. The leveling will make 80+ % of the content obsolete after a few weeks.

 

seems like no PvE game gets things right.. Its all about the race to the end game which always suck...

I agree with you, but I don't think the "grind" will every be back. Things like low drop rates on collection quests or having to find a roving mob by exploration or rep grinds to move a quest forward. Those are all gone now. Players want to get to the "real game" now instead of playing all the content.

 

Even though some of that grind was frustrating, it felt good to complete a quest that took forever because that last item just wouldn't drop. Or running a low level dungeon and having the drop actually last a few days or longer because you couldn't level 10 levels in an hour or two. It took time to level and exploration meant something. Travel was actually running from place to place. And having to earn gold to buy a mount that made a big difference took time and meant something. These things made the game much more addictive. Just having a level cap handed to you just because you log in and go through the motions doesn't mean much anymore.

 

 

“How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?”
R.A.Salvatore

  Gorwe

Elite Member

Joined: 9/16/11
Posts: 1678

8/29/13 5:41:00 PM#48

Edit: <redacted>

I've been to harsh on good ole DAoC. It's just that Mythic is tryharding with the exact replication of it and that annoys me(partly because they ruin otherwise good games). And I can't bash DAoC honestly because it is his model that(actually slightly altered DAoC model) I consider the MMO perfection. This is coming from the brain, not the heart. When I better think instead of WILDLY flailing around, it's the PvE that I want on the journey to max and then it's the RvR that I want when I arrive there.

A good PvE and a good, endgame focused RvR is all I am asking for. How hard can it be?

I don't want pure pve(WoW's treadmills), I don't want pure pvp(Darkfall like gankfests). I want a good PvE on the way up(story to get me to care about the world) and then RvR to hold me indefinitely(because I care about the world/the players, I WANT to defend it-triple so if we're talking about Warhammer/TES/LoTR/Conan franchises).

But I have no such game :O

  Vynt

Elite Member

Joined: 9/19/04
Posts: 596

8/29/13 6:01:45 PM#49

Typically gameplay to the end is a lot less than the hours of content. That content is often every little thing, including areas that are the same level that people wouldn't do both.

Back in vanilla WoW, I think people typically got to the end around 10-20 days played. That is 240-480 hours. I think I was at like 15 days played, 360 hours, and I probably did like 25% of the content.

For ESO, at 150ish, you can't exactly correlate the numbers, but often in most games they're close. People are probably going to be max level within 40 hours played, so within 2 days, especially the people that stay up and rotate. A casual person, probably doing only like 20 hours a week, will probably be max in 2 weeks. This sounds like a very short lived game.

True there is the pvp and other stuff afterwards, but if you have people that just log on for a few hours every night and are max in the first month, just way too fast.

I'm sure people will argue differently, kind of like they did with swtor, but then people were max super quick there and that had "more" content, lol.

 

Still going to play, just hope it will have a little more depth and gameplay than I expect.

  Stizzled

Gumshoe

Joined: 9/13/07
Posts: 982

Kill Your Heroes

8/29/13 6:05:51 PM#50
150 hours split between three factions, so 50 hours of story/random content for each faction. That doesn't sound like much to me. I imagine the leveling process will be rather fast, as they try to funnel everyone into the PvP zone as soon as possible.

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3703

8/29/13 6:12:52 PM#51
Originally posted by Stizzled
150 hours split between three factions, so 50 hours of story/random content for each faction. That doesn't sound like much to me. I imagine the leveling process will be rather fast, as they try to funnel everyone into the PvP zone as soon as possible.

it's 150 X 3 = 450 not divided by 3.

  Comaf

Elite Member

Joined: 7/13/10
Posts: 1127

I want an mmorpg where pvp matters, my enemies are not my race or class, and community matters.

8/29/13 6:19:47 PM#52
Originally posted by Tindale111
It came up on my facebook page today that ESO has over 150 hrs of content ,now if that was an rpg I would be dancing with joy ,but I remember being half way through wow and on typing /play my character had clocked up 13 days or 312 hrs .I realise gameplay is a bit different from content but 150 hrs didn't seem all that much to brag about even if you averaged just 10 hrs a week that's not going to hold you long

Ahh, another lost soul that never played Dark Age of Camelot.  I do not blame you, Tindale111 for thinking this might be an issue.  You see, in a realm vs realm vs realm mmorpg where RPG truly matters, the PvP as well starts to matter.   You won't get this in the E-Sport flag captures of the past so many years, so I understand the confusion that led to this question.

You could literally spend the next (let's see how old Dark Age is...hmm, 2001 to 2013)...12 years just participating in the defense of your realm and or attacking enemy realms.  Realm pride is akin to loving your football team above all others.  Let me ask you, has football seemed lacking in end game content?  I mean, it's the same game every time, right? :)  /wink


I swear most of the community is innocently the equivalent of a 3rd world country that has only had a trickle of Western medicine.  They beat their shields to their gods wondering why no one is cured, why so many die, and so forth, and now that Western medicine is arriving, they question the most basic facets of it. 

 

This is a game that really needs to be made.  Folks need to learn they can have far higher expectations of an industry - this truth alone must be a difficult pill to swallow for the Rift clones out there that just try to feed people sock soup when they could have steak.

 

  Elikal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/09/06
Posts: 8067

“No path is darker then when your eyes are shut.” -Flemeth

8/30/13 7:18:05 AM#53

Simple answer: no. Not at all.

This sounds quite unsettling, like people (again, sigh) can rush through the game.

A MMo should not be so easy, that people can breeze through the game in 150 hours. This is just what is wrong with MMOs, everything is handed on a silver platter, NO sense of accomplishment. I recall when it took a YEAR to reach max level normally playing, and that was as is should be.

Making things so easy that you can see the main content of one faction in 130-15 hours is just plain wrong.

 

EDIT: And WHY would I want my Faction Daggerfall char play through, say, Dominion story? That makes no sense! If I want to see the content of another faction, I roll a new char, fitting to some story. The very idea to pull one char through another faction story is absurd. Would you pull your Dwarf through Horde content, or your Sith through Jedi content after max level? NO. You'd roll a different char! Hilarious idea.

A forum is a place where people can discuss about different opinions. So what I don't get is, how people react offended when they come to a forum and then find... well different opinions. If a different opinion offends you, what are you even doing here?

  Gorwe

Elite Member

Joined: 9/16/11
Posts: 1678

8/30/13 5:11:17 PM#54
It isn't stupid idea. However reading comprehension could be a VERY brilliant idea however!

Why would you take your Dwarf to Kalimdor you say. Here's the answer: because there are new stories and experiences there for you. NOT the HORDE storyline, mind you! But the real de-facto Alliance missions. Therefore, you can see most content from the two sides(three in TESO).

And that's a fking brilliant idea! Plus we don't know how complex/time sink crafting will be and various other actions. I think that 150h figure is ONLY for the strict storyline playthrough(1-max). Without crafting, without side missions, without anything. Just the MQ set in some sort of vacuum. Seeing how there are actually 3 MQs-the number rises to 450ish hours. We also don't know if the races will have homeland stuff to do(special quests/stories/etc while in your home province-Dunmers in Morrowind, Nords in Skyrim etc). Then there's RvR which could be played for thousands of hours by itself.

The playthrough hours are the least of my TESO worries tbh.
  Shadanwolf

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/13/10
Posts: 1865

8/30/13 5:15:54 PM#55

OP

My reply to your concern would be that ESOL is primarily about faction vs faction fighting.Yes there is pve and crafting but ....like DAOC...the focus is faction conflict.

  Gorwe

Elite Member

Joined: 9/16/11
Posts: 1678

8/30/13 5:54:24 PM#56
I hope that they do RvR(AvA/FvF-whatever ok?) right this time and make an endgame out of it.

It is my preference to level in PvE only to switch to RvR in the end. It kinda makes sense anyways and it's easier to maintain RvR than PvE anyhow. So, the RvR done this way is win for us, win for devs and overall win for everyone involved. What's not to like?

RvR done like in WAR for example. You REALLY shouldn't be able to simply waltz into RvR at lvl 3. RvR is the thing to do at endgame stages. It's really meh earlier.

All this is imo of course! <3
  Apraxis

Elite Member

Joined: 9/28/05
Posts: 1421

8/31/13 6:56:05 AM#57
Originally posted by Piiritus

Aye I believe that this is a PvP game and that Daoc gang flushed ES down the toilet. Sad really, and I'm not even a ES fan. Just cannot play PvP games due to vile community they tend to have. I can as well stop following ESO I think, just sad some Daoc devs were allowed to defile this IP.

Ok.. the first and important question is.. what do you want?

ESO will deliver you the pve single/group content/experience worth the length of any other single player Elder Scroll game. Skyrim content is also not much more than 150 hours.

On top of that you get those 24 player group adventure zone(similar end game raiding)?

And again.. what the hell do you want?

And on top of that we do have the RvR/AvA/PvP experience a lot of pvp player wait for.

And on top of that you can do all that shit for 3 different alliances, with i don't know how much classes and what not.

And again.. what do you want?

 

 

Ahh.. you just want to complain for the sake of it? Ok.. then go on complaining.

 

 

I really do hate whiners.

  Apraxis

Elite Member

Joined: 9/28/05
Posts: 1421

8/31/13 7:02:21 AM#58
Originally posted by Vynt

Typically gameplay to the end is a lot less than the hours of content. That content is often every little thing, including areas that are the same level that people wouldn't do both.

Back in vanilla WoW, I think people typically got to the end around 10-20 days played. That is 240-480 hours. I think I was at like 15 days played, 360 hours, and I probably did like 25% of the content.

For ESO, at 150ish, you can't exactly correlate the numbers, but often in most games they're close. People are probably going to be max level within 40 hours played, so within 2 days, especially the people that stay up and rotate. A casual person, probably doing only like 20 hours a week, will probably be max in 2 weeks. This sounds like a very short lived game.

True there is the pvp and other stuff afterwards, but if you have people that just log on for a few hours every night and are max in the first month, just way too fast.

I'm sure people will argue differently, kind of like they did with swtor, but then people were max super quick there and that had "more" content, lol.

 

Still going to play, just hope it will have a little more depth and gameplay than I expect.

About WoW. No it is not that much content to rush to lvl 60 in WoW Vanilla. Maybe 200 hours of content rushing to max level.. but not more. Of course you can waste time a long the way.. and you can waste time a long the way in ESO or any other game too.. and a lot of people will need more time than those 150 hours. But rushing through the content was not that fast.

And about older games. Like EQ1 or DAoC... yeah it took a lot more time, but not because of more content, but because you had to camp one spot for days or even weeks to progress to the next level. But the overall amount of content was not really more... the player were just forced to repeat the available content a lot more. That is a difference after all.

Edit: And by the way.. i personally don't like themepark pve anyway. Nor the nowaday used to progress through quests from quest hub to quest hub, or the older spawn camping from lvl zone to lvl zone. I am more a sandbox player and i do like some kind of pvp.. like the old DAoC RvR. But i can't stand all that complaining for nothing.

  olepi

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/15/07
Posts: 970

8/31/13 3:42:12 PM#59

I hope they do PvP like DAOC; I remember once we attacked the keeps and captured a Relic, and then split into three groups, two as decoys, and one group with the actual Relic. I was in the group with the real Relic, and once we got it safely back in our lines, I felt a great sense of accomplishment, and everyone in our Realm got a +bonus.

 

edit: I spend a lot of time wandering around, harvesting stuff and crafting stuff. Also,  just farming mobs and practicing my combat skills. Content is something I ration, and advance at my own pace.

 

------------
RIP City of Heroes. One of my favorite MMO's.

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3703

8/31/13 4:05:39 PM#60
Originally posted by olepi

I hope they do PvP like DAOC; I remember once we attacked the keeps and captured a Relic, and then split into three groups, two as decoys, and one group with the actual Relic. I was in the group with the real Relic, and once we got it safely back in our lines, I felt a great sense of accomplishment, and everyone in our Realm got a +bonus.

 

edit: I spend a lot of time wandering around, harvesting stuff and crafting stuff. Also,  just farming mobs and practicing my combat skills. Content is something I ration, and advance at my own pace.

 

That's exactly how they're doing AvA. Instead of "relics" there will be "Elder Scrolls." You raid and capture them and then need to take them back to your home base and they will provide alliance-wide bonuses.

Those were always the most fun in DAoC. People that have nothing but short-term PVP as a frame of reference just have no clue how much fun a 3 hour-long strategic PVP raid with 100's participating can be. 

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