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News & Features Discussion  » [Column] Elder Scrolls Online: Yes, Virginia, It’s Pay to Play

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90 posts found
  Krashner

Novice Member

Joined: 6/20/09
Posts: 141

8/27/13 5:29:40 PM#41
My main issue is that I don't want to buy the game and pay for several months and have the game end up going F2P. All the money I spent for the box and however many  months would be wasted. So i'm going to take the wait and see approach, if this game isn't F2P 6 - 8 months after launch I might buy into it, however if does end up being F2P then I still get to play, but I don't waste money.
  Drakephire

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/02/13
Posts: 416

8/27/13 5:37:51 PM#42

Bottom line is that I might like to play all three ESO, Wildstar, and FFXIV. But I'm not going to pay $45 a month to sub to all three.  And I doubt few people will. If they were f2p, I'd likely play all three, and perhaps spend $5 or $6 in each per month.

 

 

  turinmacleod

Staff Writer

Joined: 10/24/12
Posts: 111

8/27/13 5:43:54 PM#43

I'm buying two accounts and subbing both of them, because I can afford it and it pisses the F2P people off.  lol

 

T

  VoreDock

Novice Member

Joined: 4/12/12
Posts: 125

8/27/13 5:44:28 PM#44
This is just wrong   yes i will pay for ESO  but i will never SUB again  i'm not a 20 year old kid with no life and  70+ hours of free time  The right way to go is the GW2  way  a box price + a cash shop SUB'S are what every company  in computers wants and it's wrong you would not pay a sub for windows  so why for a game  GW2 has made over $200 mil and ESO will blow that away a sub is a betrail of all us old  school fans that have been with TES from the start back in the 90's 
  Drakephire

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/02/13
Posts: 416

8/27/13 5:54:42 PM#45
Originally posted by turinmacleod

I'm buying two accounts and subbing both of them, because I can afford it and it pisses the F2P people off.  lol

 

T

And you are entitled to do that, but you're not really pissing anybody off.  There was a time when I had subscribed to 5 different MMOs simultaneously.  I could do so again, and on top of that I could right it off on taxes. However, with my professional commitments, I cannot afford the time to play games the way I used to. I only play casually, perhaps 2 hours a week at most. It's simply a waste to subscribe to multiple games.

 

 

  khellus

Novice Member

Joined: 8/23/13
Posts: 25

8/27/13 6:04:21 PM#46

Making a column about not talking about it seems a round about way to do just that.  SO I will bite and say its fine to ask for sub its not fine to add a cash shop on top of that.

Now to gameplay, It will probably have the best AI of any ES game. As most ES games have horrible AI its not hard to achieve.

Rest is pretty much a wait and see for me, notice I wrote see not experience. As is ESO offers little to nothing that interests me in MMO format. I am more interested in the next fallout.

  khellus

Novice Member

Joined: 8/23/13
Posts: 25

8/27/13 6:05:44 PM#47
got an error from first post so reposted , now deleted
  Darkcrystal

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/06/10
Posts: 804

8/27/13 6:10:43 PM#48
Originally posted by JasonJ

"Just a few days after it was announced, I am already sick of all the talk surrounding the price model of Elder Scrolls Online. I do not understand..."

We know you don't understand, you are disconnected from reality and gamers are SICK OF ALL THE MORONIC DEFENSE OF AN OUTDATED PAY MODEL DESIGNED AROUND A LIE.

And I really REALLY love how your article says we should focus on the game yet you do not mention ONE SINGLE thing being spoken about by so many beta testers, the piss poor graphics, the Funcom level of bad animations, the combat limitations and the story that doesn't meet up to TES standards.

So, go on ignoring the FACT that the internet is ablaze by TES fans talking about how they wont pay to play a game they buy and act as if its just MMORPG players that want a free game. Zenimax is missing their target audience you and playing dumb is only going to insure the fact that this game will be another SWTOR...you know, that OTHER MMORPG that has massive issues due to blind fandom and ignorant developers.

And no, SWTOR is not doing well, EAs parting CEO admitted to the lies as he walked away to apologies to shareholders, your whitewashing it and not reporting the facts doesn't change the fact that the game didn't have half the subs EA was saying, nor making near what they were claiming.

Face reality, get Zenimax to wake the EFF up to save it from being just another quick money grab fail.

So if you where the boss how would you pay everyone and expect your company to make money???? I loved to know, TOR has made there money and then some, so not sure what your smoking.... 

 

If you people think 60 bucks for a game is to much and a monthly fee go find a new hobby because i'm sick of people whining they want everything for free and expect me to work for free , How about you work for free, get a job something, so tired of hearing this about this game.

 

F2P is a bad model its simple, most community's suck when it has that model, 15 a month is cheaper then the cash shops by far and far more worth it.... If you can't handle this please find a new hobby , because teh prices are going up, and  after all the software I have to buy and the schooling I had, I think games should be 80 or more.... Not 50 or 60.

  Darkcrystal

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/06/10
Posts: 804

8/27/13 6:13:49 PM#49
Originally posted by VoreDock
This is just wrong   yes i will pay for ESO  but i will never SUB again  i'm not a 20 year old kid with no life and  70+ hours of free time  The right way to go is the GW2  way  a box price + a cash shop SUB'S are what every company  in computers wants and it's wrong you would not pay a sub for windows  so why for a game  GW2 has made over $200 mil and ESO will blow that away a sub is a betrail of all us old  school fans that have been with TES from the start back in the 90's 
 

Lol and look how great GW2 is doing with that so called model, sub model is so DEVS can add and add more content on a monthly time frame. Not wait for years to give a expansion...  

 

Not all companys can use this model, all depends on the game and how its ran , people think its that simple to thow a model on a game and call it a day, well its not...

  battlesam

Novice Member

Joined: 6/12/12
Posts: 12

8/27/13 7:03:59 PM#50

Low population is a death nail for any MMORPG and certainly F2P can help alleviate that, but my experience has been that sub games have retained my interest longer than F2P. DAoC and WoW kept me interested much longer than Rift or GW2. No matter what, I think a company is better going P2P first, then going F2P if needed, but DAoC and WoW are still in ch-ching mode.

Boxed price + sub + cash shop = WoW mode. Pretty much impossible to argue against that.

  dgarbini

Novice Member

Joined: 4/27/05
Posts: 186

8/27/13 7:11:05 PM#51

The problem with the typical p2p launch.  If the game is fun, most people will not know, because there is typically no trial and no way of knowing if it is fun.  It throws up a barrier to entry that many will not breach for the 'promise' of a good game.

 

At this point in my MMO career (yes I said career :p) I would not be willing to pay $60 for the chance to try a game that is said to be 'good'.  Myself and many have been burned by that game a few to many times.  Subscription or not.

 

Many customers in this economy are gun shy, I speak from many years experience.

  Ethabus

Novice Member

Joined: 8/27/13
Posts: 2

8/27/13 7:13:23 PM#52

At this point, it doesn't matter how 'good' a game is; gamers have rejected the pay-to-play model and ESO might find that out the hard way.  I personally don't mind a $15 monthly fee but I'm also not naive enough to think that any game will be able to sustain a large audience over a long period of time with that model.

 

The problem with pay-to-play is that it's really hard to get subscribers to come back once they cancel.  With a free-to-play game when you see a game update or new content added you just jump right in and play.  With a pay-to-play game people have to pay $15 just to see new content they may or may not enjoy.

 

I like my MMOs with as many people on my server as possible and right now that's with a free-to-play model.  I like seeing busy cities and having people to sell my items to.  I like having an easy time finding a group.  I like being able to PVP without scouring every inch of land finding someone to fight.  Free-to-play will bring a larger audience to the game.  Call them kiddies or freeloaders all you want.  I'm sick of playing pay-to-play games only to watch the giant dropoff after the first month.  Then  the server mergers.  Then the game goes free-to-play anyway but everyone calls it a failure because it didn't launch that way. 

 

If Zenimax Online wants to charge $15 they'll have my money and I hope it's a success.  I just don't see it happening in today's market.

 
  Hellidol

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/14/12
Posts: 389

8/27/13 7:14:28 PM#53
Originally posted by SBFord

In the relatively few days since Zenimax announced that Elder Scrolls Online would be a subscription-based game, the talk around the 'Net has been rampant. In our latest ESO column, Garrett talks about why it's time to stop the discussion about the subscription fee and start talking about the game itself. Read on and then head to the comments!

Gameplay is king. If a game is very strong at its core and crosses new ground in the MMO space then people will play it. Whether it is for $15.00 a month or free, or even throwing over $200.00 a month to a cash shop they will still log in every night and do something in that world. It is not so much about price but more about fun. When a really good game comes out do you remember how much you paid for it? Do you think about how much every dollar you spent equates to your level advancement or skill tree? Probably not. That is where the idea of good solid gameplay comes in.

Read more of Garrett Fuller's Elder Scrolls Online: Yes, Virginia, It’s Pay to Play.

IMO 100% right, the only time i ever thought about how much i spent on a game is when it comes to P2W games like neverwinter. 15$ month could bring in a stronger player base, meaning they will stick around for the long run.

  Hellidol

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/14/12
Posts: 389

8/27/13 7:22:32 PM#54
Originally posted by Brabbit1987

I somewhat feel this is totally the wrong way to look at it. Ya sure, as long as the game is good people are willing to pay. However, just how many are we actually talking about here?

Saying money isn't a concern if the game is good, is just simply not true at all. This is the same reason why people don't go out to the store buying the most expensive of what they are looking for. They usually try to get the cheapest or something in between if they are able to.

Of course where it stands, it all comes down to quality. However, there is a point where the difference in quality is so little, that the price doesn't seem worth it, unless you are an enthusiast. ESO from what I have seen doesn't show nearly enough for it to really justify it to cost $60 +$15/month.

Your statment is flawed, you leave out a ton of variables that you have to account for when talking about this.  People are different in so many ways you cant say they go for the cheapest thing because then everything would be cheap for the most part. If someone can find a moderate level of value in something they will save up for it and buy it rather then settle for less, but with that said there are also a lot that will just buy the cheapest because that is their personality.

"ESO from what I have seen doesn't show nearly enough for it to really justify it to cost $60 +$15/month."

That is just your pinion, to me it shows that I might just buy a collectors pact that will be priced at around 200-300$ and I might even get 2 or three accounts total. Like I said everyone is different and something tells me about  90% of anyone that has played skyrim will buy the game.

  Mithrundir

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/15/06
Posts: 337

8/27/13 8:02:19 PM#55

While free to play games done right have proven to be able to release mini expansions and cosmetic changes on a regular basis (Guild Wars 2), they have fallen short in being able to fix actual bugs/glitches/exploits in the time that a larger populated subscription dev team can (Guild Wars 2's long list on lengthy fixes, some of which still aren't here a year after launch ((WvWvW orbs and dolyak escort rewards)).

 

Therefore, I'm glad that ESO is going to have a subscription model.

Dozens of MMO's, RTS's, FPS's, etc.

  Skuall

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/20/05
Posts: 863

8/27/13 8:06:19 PM#56
sorry if i sound like an ***hole, but we really need another column/new about how ESO , wildstar or FFXIV are pay to play? D: ,or how pay to play is coming , and f2p isnt the "thing" or w/e ?
  Dren_Utogi

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/21/10
Posts: 1479

8/27/13 8:13:37 PM#57

I will never pay for an mmorpg again, Good luck with p2p . 

reviews are !@#$ing stupid. Play what you love.

  Dren_Utogi

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/21/10
Posts: 1479

8/27/13 8:28:55 PM#58
Originally posted by Mithrundir

While free to play games done right have proven to be able to release mini expansions and cosmetic changes on a regular basis (Guild Wars 2), they have fallen short in being able to fix actual bugs/glitches/exploits in the time that a larger populated subscription dev team can (Guild Wars 2's long list on lengthy fixes, some of which still aren't here a year after launch ((WvWvW orbs and dolyak escort rewards)).

 

Therefore, I'm glad that ESO is going to have a subscription model.

This is bad logic.

 

I've seen less bugs to fix in f2p models simply because more player base to find bugs. Maybe back in early 2000 f2p would of fit the above poster idea of f2p, but not now, in it;s current state.

Specifically when you have every major company doing free to play over he pay model that the American economy can't support. People say get a job , and I say, Where are these jobs ?

Economics speak louder then anything and why games like Riift are thriving. P2p might as well cost 5000 dollars cause only the rich can afford it.

reviews are !@#$ing stupid. Play what you love.

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 6133

8/27/13 8:39:15 PM#59
Originally posted by Mithrundir

While free to play games done right have proven to be able to release mini expansions and cosmetic changes on a regular basis (Guild Wars 2), they have fallen short in being able to fix actual bugs/glitches/exploits in the time that a larger populated subscription dev team can (Guild Wars 2's long list on lengthy fixes, some of which still aren't here a year after launch ((WvWvW orbs and dolyak escort rewards)).

 

Therefore, I'm glad that ESO is going to have a subscription model.

You mean like the high quality P2P launch of FFXIV?  It's been how many days now that fans have had to make excuses? At least Yoshi cried, that makes it all better.

Or how about that non-public bug tracker in EVE and the long outstanding bugs as detailed here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=255300

 

One poster in that thread had this to say:

I thought about filing a bug report about not being able to report bugs for two weeks but then realized it would be like some of my other bug reports and never read/acted upon/followed up anyway.

Instead it sounds like we should just post gamebreaking bugs in public instead.

Here's some of my recent favorites which CCP never bothered to reproduce, fix or reply to (pick one):

bug 162983, character missing in docked list. logging in multiple clients sometimes you cannot see a character (of yours) that you KNOW is docked in the same station as you (because you have both clients open), despite that character showing in local. ccp closed it because they couldn't reproduce and LALALALALA THERE IS NO RACE CONDITION IN THE UI I CANT HEAR YOUUUU

bug 162982, a bug IN THE BUG REPORTER. when you have multiple accounts/clients, and you use the IGBR, and attempt to submit a bug report, the default account name may be a different account than the character/account you're logged into! while not harmful, totally absurd to have bugs in the bug reporter. gg CCP. status: ignored

bug 161967, standings not displaying properly in local. when you login the local list often has way too many people displaying as neutral instead of proper standings, and you have to minimize/remaximize local to correct it. didn't want those standings anyway. old, obvious, and annoying bug? ccp knows what to do -- status: ignored.

Have fun with jira. I suggest you do not import any of the old bugs, and chalk up the ignoring and non-fixing to the infrastructure transition instead of having insufficient staff handling reports of players who bother to go through proper dev channels to help you fix this damn game.

I guess it's not all p2p sunshine and roses is it.  But you keep telling yourself and the rest of us there is a difference between requiring a sub with the cash shop and rmt gold sales and not requiring one.

Curse you AquaScum!

  Brabbit1987

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 718

8/27/13 8:47:17 PM#60
Originally posted by Hellidol
Originally posted by Brabbit1987

I somewhat feel this is totally the wrong way to look at it. Ya sure, as long as the game is good people are willing to pay. However, just how many are we actually talking about here?

Saying money isn't a concern if the game is good, is just simply not true at all. This is the same reason why people don't go out to the store buying the most expensive of what they are looking for. They usually try to get the cheapest or something in between if they are able to.

Of course where it stands, it all comes down to quality. However, there is a point where the difference in quality is so little, that the price doesn't seem worth it, unless you are an enthusiast. ESO from what I have seen doesn't show nearly enough for it to really justify it to cost $60 +$15/month.

Your statment is flawed, you leave out a ton of variables that you have to account for when talking about this.  People are different in so many ways you cant say they go for the cheapest thing because then everything would be cheap for the most part. If someone can find a moderate level of value in something they will save up for it and buy it rather then settle for less, but with that said there are also a lot that will just buy the cheapest because that is their personality.

"ESO from what I have seen doesn't show nearly enough for it to really justify it to cost $60 +$15/month."

That is just your pinion, to me it shows that I might just buy a collectors pact that will be priced at around 200-300$ and I might even get 2 or three accounts total. Like I said everyone is different and something tells me about  90% of anyone that has played skyrim will buy the game.

You do realize, if 90% of people who purchased skyrim, purchase ESO, it will have numbers above WoW. Skyrim sold roughly about 15 million copies.

I really think you are over estimating ESO by a lot. I also think you are overestimating how many people are interested in P2P.

Just to give you an idea of numbers, WoW has been dropping about 100,000 subs per month and they have said they may look into going F2P. I believe they are down below 8 million subs now or possibly lower.

Now keep in mind, which I am sure you already are aware, there has not been a single mmo to come out to reach even close to WoW numbers. Any P2P that has come out in the last 5 years only achieved around 2 - 3 million. Rift lasted 2 years before having to go F2P.

Do you honestly think ESO is going to all of a sudden just come out of no where and change things? Not even swtor was even able to come close, and that is star wars. They have a huge follower base in comparison to TES.

Now, I know what you will say. The game wasn't good enough. However, it didn't even get enough initial purchases. Why? Because people didn't want to pay monthly.

Again, I ask, what makes you think this is going to be any different with all odds stacked against it? Proof is in past numbers. If you think this will all of a sudden change, you are dreaming.

Now i will admit, I good game could change this. However, it will likely have to be something ground breaking, and I don't see how anyone could think ESO is ground breaking when it clearly isn't.

It looks like a fun game and is a game I would most certainly enjoy. However, I will wait for it to change to B2P or F2P. I am not going to waste money on a game that is likely to change its models. You can take the risk if you want, I will not. I seen it to many times to be fooled.

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