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EverQuest Next

EverQuest Next 

General Discussion  » Instances are confirmed in EQnext...

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113 posts found
  aesperus

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 4754

8/25/13 11:03:36 AM#61
Originally posted by Vutar

Pixel Planet interview at about the 3:42ish mark.

http://www.guildm8s.com/

 

So at what point can we go ahead and give up this notion of sandbox?

You do realize that sandbox has nothing to do w/ being instanced.

Instancing is server tech. Sandbox is a type of gameplay mechanic.

While one can influence the other, they aren't attached at the hip.

  Margulis

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/14/08
Posts: 1643

8/25/13 11:08:19 AM#62
I could care less if instancing qualifies it or not as a "sandbox" - that whole term is so amorphous and everyone has a different idea of what it is.  What I do know is that I hate instancing and am very disappointed this game will have it.
  Margulis

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/14/08
Posts: 1643

8/25/13 11:25:45 AM#63
It's really funny how before the reveal pretty much everyone posted about how they don't want instancing of any kind, but now that they have announced there will be instancing countless people on this thread are talking about how it doesn't matter and how it's dumb if you don't like instancing yadda yadda yadda.  Sure changed tune a lot.  Smells like fanboyism to me.
  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

8/25/13 11:30:04 AM#64
Originally posted by Vutar

So at what point can we go ahead and give up this notion of sandbox?

About two minutes after that first announcement?

Just had to translate MarketingSpeak into "what really always happens in the months following new game announcements".

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  Fratman

Novice Member

Joined: 6/04/05
Posts: 363

8/25/13 12:08:28 PM#65
Someone needs to ask if Rallying Calls will be instanced.
  Nitth

Elite Member

Joined: 7/29/10
Posts: 3290

Magic Propels my Rolly Chair.

8/25/13 12:17:34 PM#66


Originally posted by Victor_Kruger

Originally posted by Gwendal

Originally posted by krage Eve is commonly touted as one of the better sandbox games Eve has instancing Is Eve no longer qualified as a sandbox?  IMO its how much and how instancing is implemented that affects a games "sandboxiness" From the video the instances will be used to tell part of the story or for certain events, I don't think thats too bad, but we have to see the actual implementation and frequency.  
Umm eve online has no instances... every system is its own unique entity, there is never 2 of jita lol.
the mission gates are instances.



Originally posted by Drakephire

Originally posted by Gwendal

Originally posted by krage Eve is commonly touted as one of the better sandbox games Eve has instancing Is Eve no longer qualified as a sandbox?  IMO its how much and how instancing is implemented that affects a games "sandboxiness" From the video the instances will be used to tell part of the story or for certain events, I don't think thats too bad, but we have to see the actual implementation and frequency.  
Umm eve online has no instances... every system is its own unique entity, there is never 2 of jita lol.
Each space station is an instance. Wormholes are instances.

Also, SWG had instances.


Um...no there not?

Mission gates to my knowledge can be probe and scanned down.
Wormholes and stations create a static environments which everyone is sharing.


TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development

  furbans

Elite Member

Joined: 2/10/13
Posts: 923

8/25/13 12:31:11 PM#67
Originally posted by Nitth

 


Originally posted by Victor_Kruger

Originally posted by Gwendal

Originally posted by krage Eve is commonly touted as one of the better sandbox games Eve has instancing Is Eve no longer qualified as a sandbox?  IMO its how much and how instancing is implemented that affects a games "sandboxiness" From the video the instances will be used to tell part of the story or for certain events, I don't think thats too bad, but we have to see the actual implementation and frequency.  
Umm eve online has no instances... every system is its own unique entity, there is never 2 of jita lol.
the mission gates are instances.


Originally posted by Drakephire

Originally posted by Gwendal

Originally posted by krage Eve is commonly touted as one of the better sandbox games Eve has instancing Is Eve no longer qualified as a sandbox?  IMO its how much and how instancing is implemented that affects a games "sandboxiness" From the video the instances will be used to tell part of the story or for certain events, I don't think thats too bad, but we have to see the actual implementation and frequency.  
Umm eve online has no instances... every system is its own unique entity, there is never 2 of jita lol.
Each space station is an instance. Wormholes are instances.

 

Also, SWG had instances.


 

Um...no there not?

Mission gates to my knowledge can be probe and scanned down.
Wormholes and stations create a static environments which everyone is sharing.

If your know nothing bout EVE then you just need to stfu.  Wormhole space has specific ID that anyone can enter as long as the mass limit is not exceeded at it specific entry points along with people live in Wormhole space.

  Kyllien

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/13
Posts: 315

8/25/13 2:13:44 PM#68

Hmm Themepark?  Get a quest that you need to find something or kill something or what ever.  Instanced it get it done and get out.

Or Sandbox?  Get the same quest, go to the quest area.  But dear god there are 100,000 people in here, how they hell am I supposed to get done what I need to get done?

Also some of you are not thinking right?  An Instance can be just as fleeting as the Orcs that are leaving the highway to go find a better place to steal gold from people.  Take the first part of my statement.  You have just completed the quest.  Now no one else can do the quest and guess what, you can't go back in either.  Sounds mostly sandbox to me. 

Edit: There is such a thing as too much immersion.  I don't want to be competing for resources, quests, drops etc with 1,000,000 people at the same time.  This is why they will have multiple servers.  It is also why some content will be instanced. 

  Kyllien

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/13
Posts: 315

8/25/13 3:29:00 PM#69
Originally posted by Fratman
Someone needs to ask if Rallying Calls will be instanced.

Rallying Calls will be World Wide events that all players participate in (or chose not to).  New player characters will be starting in whatever Rallying Call is going on.  So all bets are that Rallying Calls will not be instanced.  Also Dave says that Rallying Calls are like the public quests so again not instanced.

  solarbear88

Novice Member

Joined: 12/12/10
Posts: 73

8/25/13 8:02:40 PM#70

I see instances as providing a positive experience for people.  

ie you adventure down into a dungeon to defeat some boss that is plaguing a local town - when you get to the bottom there is an instance to fight the boss

this sure beats the situation in Aion - have a quest to kill a boss mob -arrive to find a 100 person queue and it respawns every 10 minutes... so 20x10 min wait... :/

  joe2721

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/08/07
Posts: 146

8/25/13 8:08:43 PM#71
But they said quests are not static and will appear throughout the world so that alone should help with the mass camping of a single quest mob.  But instance at the same time because everyone that did find the quest may choose to do something different i can see instancing helping. if  for example want to be a necro or other darker class i might have to help the monster instead of killing it which would be very hard to do if do gooders keep killing him.

  Kyllien

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/13
Posts: 315

8/25/13 11:20:41 PM#72
Originally posted by joe2721
But they said quests are not static and will appear throughout the world so that alone should help with the mass camping of a single quest mob.  But instance at the same time because everyone that did find the quest may choose to do something different i can see instancing helping. if  for example want to be a necro or other darker class i might have to help the monster instead of killing it which would be very hard to do if do gooders keep killing him.

This is the exact reason to have instances.  What better way to ensure that if you need to go into a dojo to learn the martial arts of a monk then through an instance?  Then the instance gets deleted and the quest giver goes about their merry way.

The alternative?  Get in a queue and patiently wait your turn to execute the training.  Or worse some griefer comes through and kills the trainer.

  Theocritus

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/15/08
Posts: 3613

8/25/13 11:23:30 PM#73
Originally posted by Vutar
Originally posted by MrSalty
its going to be such a disappointment

 

Ya I am starting to understand now why they don't want to show much of the game. The more that comes out about it, the less "original" the ideas are.

 Thats just it...its all hype and smoke and mirrors right now....They are buying time...They have little or nothing at this point.

  ropenice

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/02/04
Posts: 585

8/25/13 11:40:52 PM#74
Originally posted by Amaranthar
Originally posted by Jagsman32
Originally posted by bingbongbros

 

 

Agreed. First person questlines make absolutely zero sense in an MMO, specifically if they involve instances. Are you supposed to pretend that you are the only one doing said quest? You are the only individual in the game that is the hero of the world? You are the only one who fought that dragon with an army of NPCs?

I am looking at you, GW2 and SWTOR. Unless the game is designed as a lobby based instance simulator, an MMO should be about continuity, community, socialization, and adventure. Dailies, instances, 100% soloability provides none of that (and also occupy 95% of MMOs to date).

I strongly agree.

MMO's just aren't what they started out as anymore. Concepts from single player rpg, fps, and other game types have made their way into MMOs now, and probably aren't going to revert back to the pure mmo concepts since they've mainstreamed so much. I do think some changes are for good, but many take away from what drew many of us to the genre.

  Victor_Kruger

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/04/13
Posts: 210

8/25/13 11:57:55 PM#75
Originally posted by Theocritus
Originally posted by Vutar
Originally posted by MrSalty
its going to be such a disappointment

 

Ya I am starting to understand now why they don't want to show much of the game. The more that comes out about it, the less "original" the ideas are.

 Thats just it...its all hype and smoke and mirrors right now....They are buying time...They have little or nothing at this point.

Yet they are able to launch a full featured minecraft game in the winter complete with mounts, guilds, character creation. They are are not going to come out publicly with a big game like this if it still going to take years to make and let their competitors take their ideas and release games with them before they do.  Its original in that all those features haven't been in one game before which makes it new.

  Jagsman32

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/22/07
Posts: 109

8/26/13 12:11:30 AM#76

Do all the people asking for instances not realize that the game is going to feature procedurally generated content? What purpose is there of having an instance when whatever is created one day wont be there the next?

You won't have 100 people sitting in the same spot waiting for the same mob because that same mob, dungeon, area, or item will not be there the next day, or the next, or the next, but maybe the day after that depending on the RNG. The whole purpose of this is so that you explore and discover your items instead of going through the same dungeons and landscapes the same time. You don't need instances when everything is generated like this. There wont occur a situation when you have 100 random people sitting in a location (unless it is an above world Rally or city) because everyone will need to discover and explore the content themselves. It completely defeats the purpose of the game to instance this. If someone follows you into a dungeon that you discovered on your own, thats great. That dungeon wont be there the next day, and you will have to discover a new one.

Instances are completely detrimental to the development of this game, and advocating for them is advocating for WoW with a new skin, which the devs are trying to get away from.

  Kyllien

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/13
Posts: 315

8/26/13 1:38:31 AM#77
Originally posted by Jagsman32

Do all the people asking for instances not realize that the game is going to feature procedurally generated content? What purpose is there of having an instance when whatever is created one day wont be there the next?

You won't have 100 people sitting in the same spot waiting for the same mob because that same mob, dungeon, area, or item will not be there the next day, or the next, or the next, but maybe the day after that depending on the RNG. The whole purpose of this is so that you explore and discover your items instead of going through the same dungeons and landscapes the same time. You don't need instances when everything is generated like this. There wont occur a situation when you have 100 random people sitting in a location (unless it is an above world Rally or city) because everyone will need to discover and explore the content themselves. It completely defeats the purpose of the game to instance this. If someone follows you into a dungeon that you discovered on your own, thats great. That dungeon wont be there the next day, and you will have to discover a new one.

Instances are completely detrimental to the development of this game, and advocating for them is advocating for WoW with a new skin, which the devs are trying to get away from.

Procedural does not mean daily.  From what I have heard something will have to trigger the dungeon to close.  Most likely a cave in caused by an earthquake. 

Instances allow for small group and individual content. 

You just saved a wizard from a group of ogres.  He invites you into his home to tell you a story about when he was a great wizard and then proceeds to teach you the ways of the wizard.  He takes you into a small grove behind his home to teach you the actual spells and allow you to try them out.  Why would you want hundreds or thousands of players invading your private moment?  Can we just call the instance in this case a wizard spell of illusion making you and the whole area disappear from the world for a time?

  neobahamut20

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 357

We can only show them the path, but they have to be the ones to take it.

8/26/13 2:15:25 AM#78
Originally posted by Vutar

Pixel Planet interview at about the 3:42ish mark.

http://www.guildm8s.com/

 

So at what point can we go ahead and give up this notion of sandbox?

Most people already gave up on Sandbox EQNext. Lets see if its a decent themepark now I guess

Boycotting EA. Why? They suck, even moreso since 2008.

  GrayKodiak

Novice Member

Joined: 11/15/12
Posts: 576

8/26/13 2:24:40 AM#79
Originally posted by Kyllien
Originally posted by Jagsman32

Do all the people asking for instances not realize that the game is going to feature procedurally generated content? What purpose is there of having an instance when whatever is created one day wont be there the next?

You won't have 100 people sitting in the same spot waiting for the same mob because that same mob, dungeon, area, or item will not be there the next day, or the next, or the next, but maybe the day after that depending on the RNG. The whole purpose of this is so that you explore and discover your items instead of going through the same dungeons and landscapes the same time. You don't need instances when everything is generated like this. There wont occur a situation when you have 100 random people sitting in a location (unless it is an above world Rally or city) because everyone will need to discover and explore the content themselves. It completely defeats the purpose of the game to instance this. If someone follows you into a dungeon that you discovered on your own, thats great. That dungeon wont be there the next day, and you will have to discover a new one.

Instances are completely detrimental to the development of this game, and advocating for them is advocating for WoW with a new skin, which the devs are trying to get away from.

Procedural does not mean daily.  From what I have heard something will have to trigger the dungeon to close.  Most likely a cave in caused by an earthquake. 

Instances allow for small group and individual content. 

You just saved a wizard from a group of ogres.  He invites you into his home to tell you a story about when he was a great wizard and then proceeds to teach you the ways of the wizard.  He takes you into a small grove behind his home to teach you the actual spells and allow you to try them out.  Why would you want hundreds or thousands of players invading your private moment?  Can we just call the instance in this case a wizard spell of illusion making you and the whole area disappear from the world for a time?

Because the instance you described is done in almost every MMO out right now? Because once again you are describing a developer driven themepark, with the same wizzard doing the same thing 200000 times from now until they shut the game down. Because these instances lead to insane oddness in the game world, like the fact that you kill the king of the blood elves, go back to the blood elf city and ...wait whats that? Oh the world doesn't care that you just killed the king of the blood elves because it has to be designed in a way that the next 100000 people can do the exact same thing.

Because an instance is the exact opposite of a changing world? Imagine Razorfen downs in a world where you have driven off all the pig people from that area...they are gone...for good...now why would they still have a cave full of them in an instance in a world that has the nearest similar mob half a continent away?

Get your small group, go somewhere that isn't full of people and kill things that require small groups to kill...find a baby dragon or a small tribe of kobolds, dear god do something besides following the dots the devs laid out before you. Write your own story.

What do you plan to do once you beat all those instances? NOTHING because that is what we do in every themepark when we beat all the instances, we sit around and PvP and move on to the next one or wait for the devs to grace us with an expansion with more little magic repeating instances, wondering why we can't find an MMO with enough content to keep our attention.

  Kyllien

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/13
Posts: 315

8/26/13 2:46:31 AM#80
Originally posted by GrayKodiak
Originally posted by Kyllien
Originally posted by Jagsman32

Do all the people asking for instances not realize that the game is going to feature procedurally generated content? What purpose is there of having an instance when whatever is created one day wont be there the next?

You won't have 100 people sitting in the same spot waiting for the same mob because that same mob, dungeon, area, or item will not be there the next day, or the next, or the next, but maybe the day after that depending on the RNG. The whole purpose of this is so that you explore and discover your items instead of going through the same dungeons and landscapes the same time. You don't need instances when everything is generated like this. There wont occur a situation when you have 100 random people sitting in a location (unless it is an above world Rally or city) because everyone will need to discover and explore the content themselves. It completely defeats the purpose of the game to instance this. If someone follows you into a dungeon that you discovered on your own, thats great. That dungeon wont be there the next day, and you will have to discover a new one.

Instances are completely detrimental to the development of this game, and advocating for them is advocating for WoW with a new skin, which the devs are trying to get away from.

Procedural does not mean daily.  From what I have heard something will have to trigger the dungeon to close.  Most likely a cave in caused by an earthquake. 

Instances allow for small group and individual content. 

You just saved a wizard from a group of ogres.  He invites you into his home to tell you a story about when he was a great wizard and then proceeds to teach you the ways of the wizard.  He takes you into a small grove behind his home to teach you the actual spells and allow you to try them out.  Why would you want hundreds or thousands of players invading your private moment?  Can we just call the instance in this case a wizard spell of illusion making you and the whole area disappear from the world for a time?

Because the instance you described is done in almost every MMO out right now? Because once again you are describing a developer driven themepark, with the same wizzard doing the same thing 200000 times from now until they shut the game down. Because these instances lead to insane oddness in the game world, like the fact that you kill the king of the blood elves, go back to the blood elf city and ...wait whats that? Oh the world doesn't care that you just killed the king of the blood elves because it has to be designed in a way that the next 100000 people can do the exact same thing.

Because an instance is the exact opposite of a changing world? Imagine Razorfen downs in a world where you have driven off all the pig people from that area...they are gone...for good...now why would they still have a cave full of them in an instance in a world that has the nearest similar mob half a continent away?

Get your small group, go somewhere that isn't full of people and kill things that require small groups to kill...find a baby dragon or a small tribe of kobolds, dear god do something besides following the dots the devs laid out before you. Write your own story.

What do you plan to do once you beat all those instances? NOTHING because that is what we do in every themepark when we beat all the instances, we sit around and PvP and move on to the next one or wait for the devs to grace us with an expansion with more little magic repeating instances, wondering why we can't find an MMO with enough content to keep our attention.

So what you describe is a sandbox world were a large powerfull guild can just go an wipe out all the highend named mobs.  Wouldn't that break emersion for everyone else? 

Instead of telling me why a little instance breaks the game so completely that it can't be called a sandbox anymore instead how would you finish the story?  Does the Wizard finally die from his wounds after imparting his knowledge to you?  Does he decide that he doesn't want to live here anymore and moves to a "safer" place? In either case the instance dies or moves with him.  Maybe he won't teach anyone else to be a wizard.

Also, there are going to have to be wizards to empart thier knowledge to those 200,000 people or would you simply limit the number of people that can become a wizard to say 2,000 (other then initial character choice)?

I can't wait to see your idea of a sandbox in action with everyone waiting patiently in line for the next named mob to pop or for access into a new dungeon (you can't get in because it is already full of 50,000 players).  Seems to me if you don't balance the story telling in some way to make the story available to everyone then all you are going to have in short order is an empty world with nothing to do.  All the mobs have been killed.  All the quests are completed.  All the named are dead or banished.  Sounds like an awsome sandbox.

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