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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » ESO will have a box price, subscription AND a cash shop.

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161 posts found
  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3778

8/24/13 12:12:21 PM#141
Originally posted by asrlohz

The problem is that they are right, the average consumer is mindless. 

They do share my view actually.  Greed is #1.   That is my view of them, and that is their view for this game.

 

B2P game for P2P price.

That is just a fact. 

 

No merit my ass!  We can look at other games and compare value.  This is a clone of GW2, a b2p game.   You are ASSUMING this is some golden egg, and is completely unique, thus we can't know its inherent value.

GW2 went into development 2007. The same year that ZOS was founded to start development on TES:O.

Seems a bit far fetched that ZOS copied GW2 before Arena.net had even created a single proper character model. Maybe some research would be useful before tossing around random accusations, GW2 fanboy.

"GW2 clone" is the new "WOW clone." EQ Next is also being dismissively characterized the same way by all the "hip" forum warriors ... I guess it's an improvement of sorts 

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3778

8/24/13 12:17:00 PM#142
Originally posted by CthulhuPuffs

Im curious as to what they could actually put in their Item Shop.

 

Server Change doesnt work with everyone being on 1 Mega Server.

Campaign Change would be a silly thing to make people pay for.

Doubt there would be a Class/Race/Faction Change option as they seem really adamant about locking players into this Realm Pride.

 

That leaves Name Change, Additional Color Pallets, Hair Styles and other Visual Character Changes, XP/Skill Boosts, Special Mounts, Extra Bank/Inv Space.

Thing is, in the past, these USE TO BE "Fun Items" that Players could get using In-Game Mechanics. Whether it be through a Quest, In- Game Currency or In-Game Skill.

But you got them by paying your $15 Sub Fee and then actually PLAYING

Now-a-days MMOs make you pay for these "Fun Items" through the Wallet Mechanic

This is of course after you have already paid them $60 for the game AND are constantly paying them $15 mo for continued access.

Actually, "server changes" kinda still works since PVP Campaigns work like servers - they've always talked about switching campaigns costing something - we thought it would be just PVP points (whatever they call those...I forget) but it could be $$ too.

Race/Alliance changes could also work. All they would have to do is change your race along with the campaign swap.

All the other stuff you're fantasizing about: XP boosts, bank space, inventory space is just that, your fantasy - no one but internet forum warriors have said that. The only concrete example they've given so far is name changes + the generic "fun stuff.'

  Adalwulff

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/18/10
Posts: 1191

"I am not the light, or the darkness, but the twilight in between"

8/24/13 2:13:02 PM#143
Originally posted by jesusjuice69
Originally posted by Adalwulff
Originally posted by jesusjuice69
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by jesusjuice69
Originally posted by Piechunks
Originally posted by jesusjuice69
 

 

Then why don't you tell us when profit becomes greed?

Surely you agree the company must make a profit right? Or else they cannot pay their staff or their bills.

So tell us, in your opinion, how much are they allowed to make, before it becomes greed?

Yah, that is easy.  Maybe you haven't been following the discussion.

 

Arenanet selling GW2, a B2P game, for a B2P price.   Profit.

ZOS selling TESO, a B2P game, for P2P price.  Greed

 

It is dishonest, and done purely out of greed.

 

You still haven't answered the question...lol

When does profit turn to greed?

How much money, in your opinion, are they "allowed" to make?

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17129

8/24/13 2:27:34 PM#144
Originally posted by jesusjuice69
 

Now you resort to name calling red herrings, and "I know you are, but what am I?"

Then, you start rambling on about cash shops and F2P, of which I have discussed neither.

Combined with the 90s comment, and I think its safe to assume we are dealing with a kid.

I don't have time to teach gradeschool, so run along.

Hey your the one who brought out the "mindless" remark. so you can call people mindless for the things they do but if you are called on it you take offense?

Here, I'll remind you as you seem to think you have carte blanche to say what you feel like and call others out yet you don't like that lens turned on yourself:

"You are part of the problem!  You are reinforcing the notion that they can do whatever the fuck they want, and the people, being a mindless consumers, will still purchase it."

I brought up b2p and f2p because you brought up GW2 and their model in relation to this game. I just expanded upon that.

Your comment: "We can look at other games and compare value.  This is a clone of GW2, a b2p game.  "

Not sure what comment I made which was "90's but feel free to answer Adalwullf's question.

  jesusjuice69

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/07/13
Posts: 293

8/24/13 2:32:51 PM#145
Originally posted by Adalwulff
Originally posted by jesusjuice69
Originally posted by Adalwulff
Originally posted by jesusjuice69
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by jesusjuice69
Originally posted by Piechunks
Originally posted by jesusjuice69
 

 

Then why don't you tell us when profit becomes greed?

Surely you agree the company must make a profit right? Or else they cannot pay their staff or their bills.

So tell us, in your opinion, how much are they allowed to make, before it becomes greed?

Yah, that is easy.  Maybe you haven't been following the discussion.

 

Arenanet selling GW2, a B2P game, for a B2P price.   Profit.

ZOS selling TESO, a B2P game, for P2P price.  Greed

 

It is dishonest, and done purely out of greed.

 

You still haven't answered the question...lol

When does profit turn to greed?

How much money, in your opinion, are they "allowed" to make?

I actually did answer the question.

Now, if you want a random numerical answer to your loaded question, then there isn't one.  That would be dependent on the case at hand.  Nice try though.

 

Why don't you look up Business ethics, and then respond in a few years when you know what you are talking about.

  User Deleted
8/24/13 2:35:31 PM#146
Originally posted by Shaigh
8 million still supports box price, subscription and a cash shop.

Best...response...ever...

  jesusjuice69

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/07/13
Posts: 293

8/24/13 3:02:31 PM#147
Originally posted by grimgryphon
Originally posted by Shaigh
8 million still supports box price, subscription and a cash shop.

Best...response...ever...

This game won't have 8 million subs.

They will probably be lucky to get 1 month sub out of most people who buy the game.

  User Deleted
8/24/13 3:08:36 PM#148
Originally posted by jesusjuice69
Originally posted by grimgryphon
Originally posted by Shaigh
8 million still supports box price, subscription and a cash shop.

Best...response...ever...

This game won't have 8 million subs.

They will probably be lucky to get 1 month sub out of most people who buy the game.

Can I borrow your crystal ball? I'm getting ready to sell my mountain cabin in Colorado...I need to settle on an asking price.

  korent1991

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/01/09
Posts: 1405

8/24/13 3:15:51 PM#149
Originally posted by Miblet
Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by coretex666

So that it is going to use the same revenue channels as the most successful MMO in the history?

Outrage!!!

How well has that worked out for everyone but the most successful MMO in history.  Fortunately for us, history answers that question for us.

Almost all profitable (very rare occasions of games not breaking even and making profit in short order).

oh really? could you write a few successful mmorpgs with p2p with a cash shop that didn't go for f2p model?

going f2p isn't anything bad, but it means the game can't cover the costs (now or in the next planned financial report) with its existing model and trend without some radical changes.

"Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life."
-------------------------------

  jesusjuice69

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/07/13
Posts: 293

8/24/13 3:28:26 PM#150
Originally posted by grimgryphon
Originally posted by jesusjuice69
Originally posted by grimgryphon
Originally posted by Shaigh
8 million still supports box price, subscription and a cash shop.

Best...response...ever...

This game won't have 8 million subs.

They will probably be lucky to get 1 month sub out of most people who buy the game.

Can I borrow your crystal ball? I'm getting ready to sell my mountain cabin in Colorado...I need to settle on an asking price.

You are going to have to borrow it from Shaigh.  I gave it back to him.

  Adalwulff

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/18/10
Posts: 1191

"I am not the light, or the darkness, but the twilight in between"

8/24/13 4:20:05 PM#151
Originally posted by jesusjuice69
Originally posted by Adalwulff
Originally posted by jesusjuice69
Originally posted by Adalwulff
Originally posted by jesusjuice69
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by jesusjuice69
Originally posted by Piechunks
Originally posted by jesusjuice69
 

 

Then why don't you tell us when profit becomes greed?

Surely you agree the company must make a profit right? Or else they cannot pay their staff or their bills.

So tell us, in your opinion, how much are they allowed to make, before it becomes greed?

Yah, that is easy.  Maybe you haven't been following the discussion.

 

Arenanet selling GW2, a B2P game, for a B2P price.   Profit.

ZOS selling TESO, a B2P game, for P2P price.  Greed

 

It is dishonest, and done purely out of greed.

 

You still haven't answered the question...lol

When does profit turn to greed?

How much money, in your opinion, are they "allowed" to make?

I actually did answer the question.

Now, if you want a random numerical answer to your loaded question, then there isn't one.  That would be dependent on the case at hand.  Nice try though.

 

Why don't you look up Business ethics, and then respond in a few years when you know what you are talking about.

 

No you haven't answered.

I didn't make the claim, you did. You keep saying greed, all I'm asking is how much does it take to turn profit into greed.

They haven't broken any business ethics, that is your bias opinion. Who are you to decide what is ethical?

  gervaise1

Elite Member

Joined: 1/17/07
Posts: 1228

8/26/13 4:17:29 PM#152

They can make as much "profit" as they like - and as long as they avoid potential "gambling/addiction" type issues (potentially associated with a cash shop) and they don't engage in misleading advertising then it will be ethical. And the more money they make the more money should be invested in the game.

That is the rub though. Will they make more money with a monthly sub than without it?

As EA found out people don't need to subscribe and they can unsubscribe pretty quickly. A sub will reduce box sales as well.

 

 

  jesusjuice69

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/07/13
Posts: 293

8/27/13 11:03:41 AM#153
Originally posted by Adalwulff

No you haven't answered.

I didn't make the claim, you did. You keep saying greed, all I'm asking is how much does it take to turn profit into greed.

They haven't broken any business ethics, that is your bias opinion. Who are you to decide what is ethical?

I did.  Sorry, if you don't understand.

  Kuraphimaru

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/06/07
Posts: 1293

8/27/13 12:15:02 PM#154


Originally posted by jesusjuice69

Originally posted by Adalwulff No you haven't answered. I didn't make the claim, you did. You keep saying greed, all I'm asking is how much does it take to turn profit into greed. They haven't broken any business ethics, that is your bias opinion. Who are you to decide what is ethical?
I did.  Sorry, if you don't understand.

ok, let me rephrase that question then. What a game would need to have to qualify for a P2P in your opinion so it would become profit and not greed.

  jimprouner

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/06/13
Posts: 152

8/27/13 5:08:19 PM#155
Originally posted by Adalwulff

 

No you haven't answered.

I didn't make the claim, you did. You keep saying greed, all I'm asking is how much does it take to turn profit into greed.

They haven't broken any business ethics, that is your bias opinion. Who are you to decide what is ethical?

I agree with JJ.

The reason all recent MMOs have failed is pure greed.  They launch P2P, and then refuse to update their game, and in some cases even fix simple bugs.  They take the money and pocket it instead of reinvesting that money back into the game.  

ESO seems to be going down the same path.  I don't see this game having sufficient end game content to merit a P2P model, and I don't foresee a lot of updates.

  Kuraphimaru

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/06/07
Posts: 1293

8/27/13 5:52:55 PM#156


Originally posted by jimprouner

Originally posted by Adalwulff   No you haven't answered. I didn't make the claim, you did. You keep saying greed, all I'm asking is how much does it take to turn profit into greed. They haven't broken any business ethics, that is your bias opinion. Who are you to decide what is ethical?
I agree with JJ.

The reason all recent MMOs have failed is pure greed.  They launch P2P, and then refuse to update their game, and in some cases even fix simple bugs.  They take the money and pocket it instead of reinvesting that money back into the game.  

ESO seems to be going down the same path.  I don't see this game having sufficient end game content to merit a P2P model, and I don't foresee a lot of updates.


Ahem, a couple of questions.

A. How can you say that ESO developers are not investing profits from subscriptions into fixing the game and providing patches WHEN THE GAME HAS NOT EVEN BEEN RELEASED YET?

B. Did you already play an UNRELEASED game to the end to see that there is no end game content in it?

C. What are the reasons for your foresight of lack of updates in the future of this title aside from being full of it?

Please an answer them seriously because I'm extremely curious as to your reasoning and insights.

  killahh

Novice Member

Joined: 8/25/04
Posts: 455

As famous as the unknown soldier

8/27/13 5:54:24 PM#157
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by jesusjuice69
Originally posted by Kayo45
So basically everyone is panicking because some foreign site interview let slip that theyll have an item shop that includes name changes(?). Translated by google no less. /sigh how about we see wtf they plan to put in this cash shop (other than name changes before we start losing our freakin minds over an ambiguous comment. It may well just be a similar system to which Blizzard has been using for years now.

That said, if its the f2p kind of cash shop then im out as well. Probably the dumbest thing they could do but oh well ... ESO is like 3rd in my list of potential MMOs anyway, and one I planned on waiting a few months to make sure they dont pull he old p2p<>f2p switcheroo a few months down the line.

Yah, you can't trust those foreign sites... I mean they are foreign!  They don't even speak english for crying out loud.

/sarcasm

 

I give this game 9 months tops under subscription model.

 

Originally posted by Nanfoodle
The day Blizzard sold 25 millings opening weekend with that damn sparkle pony mount was the day I knew that cash shops were going to be in every MMO one day. So ESO has picked to P2P + Box price + cash shop. They have to walk a line on what they add to the cash shop. P2P means they better have the content to back up a monthly sub. I have a feeling they are not gona get this right. The more I read about this game the less I am interested. IMO this seem more like a GW2 game. Fun but not a lot of depth. Should have gona B2P with a GW2 style cash shop IMO. Cant wait to see this game go head to head with EQN lol


I think you hit the nail on the head.  The depth of this game seems on par with GW2.

As far as I know they haven't even said the word update, so I really wonder how they are going to justify the subscription model after a couple months.

Ya not gona try this game till it goes F2P even if I have to wait a year after release

i am sure you will not be missed.

Gonada Dahung,over 20 years of mmorpg's and counting....Please Lord, let someone make a game that had all the awesomeness of UO, EQ and EVE...

  jimprouner

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/06/13
Posts: 152

8/28/13 7:59:10 AM#158
Originally posted by Kuraphimaru

 


Originally posted by jimprouner

Originally posted by Adalwulff   No you haven't answered. I didn't make the claim, you did. You keep saying greed, all I'm asking is how much does it take to turn profit into greed. They haven't broken any business ethics, that is your bias opinion. Who are you to decide what is ethical?
I agree with JJ.

 

The reason all recent MMOs have failed is pure greed.  They launch P2P, and then refuse to update their game, and in some cases even fix simple bugs.  They take the money and pocket it instead of reinvesting that money back into the game.  

ESO seems to be going down the same path.  I don't see this game having sufficient end game content to merit a P2P model, and I don't foresee a lot of updates.


 

Ahem, a couple of questions.

A. How can you say that ESO developers are not investing profits from subscriptions into fixing the game and providing patches WHEN THE GAME HAS NOT EVEN BEEN RELEASED YET?

B. Did you already play an UNRELEASED game to the end to see that there is no end game content in it?

C. What are the reasons for your foresight of lack of updates in the future of this title aside from being full of it?

Please an answer them seriously because I'm extremely curious as to your reasoning and insights.

A)  It is the growing trend in the market.  They have also said the word update all of 1 time thus far I believe.

B) These is no end game content.  This is pretty much a fact.  They didn't even plan on having 1 adventure zone open before the game was delayed.  I mean its predominantly an easy mode single player game FFS.

C) Isn't this question A?  Again, this game is predominantly an easy mode single player game.  What updates could they even do besides pint sized GW2 style updates?   Problem is that Arenanet hands those out for free, because they aren't worth a sub!

  battlesam

Novice Member

Joined: 6/12/12
Posts: 11

8/28/13 10:57:26 AM#159

 

Originally posted by jimprouner

"The reason all recent MMOs have failed is pure greed."   --- That is a false statement.

A)  "It[F2P] is the growing trend in the market."  -- That is a false statement.

B) "These is no end game content."   -- That is a false statement.

 

1) Careless usage of the word 'all' often results in false statements.

2) F2P is "a" trend, not "the" trend.  

3) lol

  Kuraphimaru

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/06/07
Posts: 1293

8/28/13 11:27:44 AM#160


Originally posted by jimprouner

Originally posted by Kuraphimaru  

Originally posted by jimprouner

Originally posted by Adalwulff   No you haven't answered. I didn't make the claim, you did. You keep saying greed, all I'm asking is how much does it take to turn profit into greed. They haven't broken any business ethics, that is your bias opinion. Who are you to decide what is ethical?
I agree with JJ.   The reason all recent MMOs have failed is pure greed.  They launch P2P, and then refuse to update their game, and in some cases even fix simple bugs.  They take the money and pocket it instead of reinvesting that money back into the game.   ESO seems to be going down the same path.  I don't see this game having sufficient end game content to merit a P2P model, and I don't foresee a lot of updates.
  Ahem, a couple of questions. A. How can you say that ESO developers are not investing profits from subscriptions into fixing the game and providing patches WHEN THE GAME HAS NOT EVEN BEEN RELEASED YET? B. Did you already play an UNRELEASED game to the end to see that there is no end game content in it? C. What are the reasons for your foresight of lack of updates in the future of this title aside from being full of it? Please an answer them seriously because I'm extremely curious as to your reasoning and insights.
A)  It is the growing trend in the market.  They have also said the word update all of 1 time thus far I believe.

B) These is no end game content.  This is pretty much a fact.  They didn't even plan on having 1 adventure zone open before the game was delayed.  I mean its predominantly an easy mode single player game FFS.

C) Isn't this question A?  Again, this game is predominantly an easy mode single player game.  What updates could they even do besides pint sized GW2 style updates?   Problem is that Arenanet hands those out for free, because they aren't worth a sub!


Ok, I will bite on this stupidity.

A) It is also a growing trend in Canadian cell-phone market to charge more for less. Yet, the company I'm with provides with unlimited minutes, texts, and internet usage for $40 while every other provider would charge at least $60-70 with severe limits. The trend is to screw customers and they don't seem to be following it. Catch my drift?

B) Facts are verifiable. Please show evidence supporting the non-existance of end game content. OH WAIT! You can't. THE GAME IS STILL IN DEVELOPMENT and NO ONE PLAYED IT TO THE END.

C) Oh I dunno. Skyrim was a single player game and they released 2 pretty decent expansions and one cosmetic DLC. Just because Arenanet got their heads stuck in their collective asses when it comes to updates doesn't mean every one else.

My advice, Don't judge a whole market based on mistakes made by select few.

C)

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