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EverQuest Next

EverQuest Next 

General Discussion  » EQ:N, the most Soul Crushing MMO to be released in the past 10 years!

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129 posts found
  Dewm

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 5/29/09
Posts: 1337

Players come for the game, but they stay for the people- Most Devs have forgotten this.

8/24/13 1:15:55 PM#61
Originally posted by M1sf1t

 


Originally posted by Aison2
 Balance for the average and 50% will suck at it.  People who don't "win" leave.

 

So the solution is sought: balance below average skill requirements for most gameplay.

MOBAs have proven easier = more players.


 


MOBA's are only easy in that their controls are simple. To dominate in MOBA's in a competitive environment on the other hand is a completely different matter.

 

This^^

Every time I see someone like this on the forum I have to just laugh at how full of crap they are.. and I'd bet you 90% of them have never played one.

 

Its like watching basketball and saying "it requires no skills.... pssh put a ball in a circle? really?

 

But lets see them get into the NBA.

 

Just keep talking out of your arse.. I need entertainment. 

  DavisFlight

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2398

8/24/13 1:16:56 PM#62

I don't think you know what horizontal progression is.

The gear grind in WoW is vertical progression. Horizontal is the skill system in Eve. (though there is always some verticality)

And the Planetside 2 engine is fucking amazing.

 

The rest of the cons I give you.

  Reklaw

Elite Member

Joined: 1/07/06
Posts: 6085

The adult I am takes care of most things real life. However my inner-child is a GAMER!!

8/24/13 1:19:55 PM#63
Originally posted by Vutar
Originally posted by ckeeton999
Bearknights "opinion" based on a tech demo is pretty much invalid

 

Yet, everyone who is praising the game based on tech demo's have valid opinions right?

 

 

I think the actuall MMORPG veteran will voice his or her opinion once he or she has actually played the game in what ever form.

In between all we can do is speculate.

But topics like this could only make sense if OP has actually played the game. Of course he is intittled to voice his opinion. but as said doesn't make sense without having actuall proven playable experiance.

  Arcona

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/30/04
Posts: 1166

8/24/13 1:36:20 PM#64
Originally posted by BearKnight

-Graphics aimed at Children, think WoW 2.0

 

They mentioned that faces are cartoony because they wanted to make them very expressive, 3rd person view you view them from a distance.

They use a tech that detects your expressions with your webcam, and transfer it to your avatar.

  DavisFlight

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2398

8/24/13 1:44:49 PM#65
Originally posted by Arcona
Originally posted by BearKnight

-Graphics aimed at Children, think WoW 2.0

 

They mentioned that faces are cartoony because they wanted to make them very expressive, 3rd person view you view them from a distance.

They use a tech that detects your expressions with your webcam, and transfer it to your avatar.

My gripe isn't with the faces. It's with the stupid looking armor and weapons. The lack of practicality takes me out of the world that tries to take itself seriously.

  winter

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/08/03
Posts: 2224

8/24/13 2:02:58 PM#66
Originally posted by Shadowguy64

So just cancel the project?

Hit the delete button on all the art assets?

Fire the team?

 

What is it you want them to do?

 They have done this with EQN already, well did a total rewrite. Previous version was too much like EQ and EQ2. (they wanted Revolutionary over evolutionary.)

 

  You would prefer no one say anything and just quietly wait till the games out (and pretty much written in stone) to see how it plays?

 

   What we have now is a game where your running to get somewhere (maybe meet up with friends) and a mob can pound the ground under you making a 100 foot drop you fall into (taking no damage it seems) where you'll generally have to defeat some baddy (ies) and then try and find a way out. As that hole in the ceiling 100 feet up may well have healed shut depending on the length of the combat,  Overall could be fun or could be a PITA. I foresee a lot of (possibly cash shop) insta teleports in this game

  ckeeton999

Novice Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 58

8/24/13 2:07:22 PM#67
No that isn't how the game is that was the tech demo. Get your facts straight
  winter

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/08/03
Posts: 2224

8/24/13 2:15:55 PM#68
Originally posted by Reklaw
Originally posted by Vutar
Originally posted by ckeeton999
Bearknights "opinion" based on a tech demo is pretty much invalid

 

Yet, everyone who is praising the game based on tech demo's have valid opinions right?

 

 

I think the actuall MMORPG veteran will voice his or her opinion once he or she has actually played the game in what ever form.

In between all we can do is speculate.

But topics like this could only make sense if OP has actually played the game. Of course he is intittled to voice his opinion. but as said doesn't make sense without having actuall proven playable experiance.

 And here in lies the problem once the game is out and people have played it, it will be pretty much too late. Once released the main points of the game will pretty much be set in stone.

   Those that are worried and want to see a change in the game even if based on assumption and lack of information had better say something now. Those that are happy just to wait and trust SOE to deliver the game they want had better be ready to take what they are given when its released and STFU as they were the ones that weren't willing to speak up about their doubts when the game was being made and still could be changed.

    Devs do sometimes make bad games but they make them with the information they get from the player base. So if the game sucks its also the fault of the player base who either asked for it or who sat quietly by inferring they would accept it, and play it as shown/described. 

  winter

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/08/03
Posts: 2224

8/24/13 2:21:21 PM#69
Originally posted by ckeeton999
No that isn't how the game is that was the tech demo. Get your facts straight

 Heheh and you have facts from the game yourself? I have only the information SOE has shown its true but please don't pretend you are enlightened or that there are "FACTs" this early in the game development that won't be changed come time of release. All you have is Dev speak, and Marketing. I dare you to prove that Devs never lie. Marketing we already know is 50% lies.

  grifj

Novice Member

Joined: 7/30/13
Posts: 111

8/24/13 2:22:20 PM#70
Originally posted by BearKnight

 

 The issue, is that Smed is rolling some of the best aspects of an MMO in with some of the most horrible aspects for an MMO.

I think this sums it up perfectly.  The great are the sandboxy elements and potentially the crafting/harvesting depth to the game.  Limited destructibility is great too, although I don't like how far it goes in this game with the smashing into the lower sections of the world.  Love the emergent AI.  Love the world quests, etc.

But meh.  The graphics.  The "multiclassing" which is really just an ezmode excuse to allow everybody to be everything and to minimize vertical growth.  The lack of holy quadrinity.  The LOL action style combat and some of the movement (e.g., flash, double jump, etc.). 

We'll see how it all plays out.  In the end it'll probably be a matter of how challenging the game is.  If there's very limited fast travel, most of the game requires grouping, and the risk and penalties of death are great, then I'll probably like it.  If it's just another ezmode MMO with limited vertical strata, I'll probably quickly be bored.

  Karble

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/13/09
Posts: 650

I play therefor I am

8/24/13 2:24:33 PM#71

I've never seen so many people, myself included, conflicted over a release in quite some time. It isn't the Hype that is the issue either, and that is highly surprising. 

Let the game finish up before judging it.

The issue, is that Smed is rolling some of the best aspects of an MMO in with some of the most horrible aspects for an MMO. Together, they form the most frustrating announcements that have been made in the past 10years. Even more frustrating than seeing the first iteration of what we were going to have thrown at us from gamesworkshop in the form of a WoW-Warahmmer 40k (google to see what i'm talking about).

Not everyone agrees with this.

So what's so amazing?

-Sandbox Core Gameplay

-Destructable Voxel based environemtn tied in with 3D models to handle animations (since voxels suck for animation)

-Multi-Class mentality

-Crafting that is trying to copy SWG's amazing system

-Mentality behind "An MMO isn't just made for one person", something Sandbox's actually encompass.

-Smed wants to make an EvE-style based fantasy Sandbox title, woo.

-Exploration being the emphasis over linear achievement. 

So what's so absolutely frustrating that are potentially deal-breakers for such an amazing game??

-Graphics aimed at Children, think WoW 2.0

Graphics are not made for chlidren. They are set up so that families can play together from probably age 10 on up with parental supervision. There will probably be sliders for blood or other details along with language.

-Major mainstreaming of the Everquest brand, ie: dumbing down...something many didn't think was possible for a Sandbox

This is simply not true. There is a huge amount of things under wraps and to call it dumbed down this early is not right at all

-GW2's horribly bland combat system, with attack telegraphs

There is obviously a good deal of similarity here, but we still really have no clue from a short video, how any combat will work or feel beyond a few telegraphed ground patterns.

-GW2's absolutely pathetic skill system, yaaay 8 abilities!

Once again they talked about several other things that will also be involved beyond the 8 buttons.

-GW2's Weapon system, ties in with above point about skills.

They said it will be similar, but still have it's own identity.

-Horizontal progression primarily based on gear (WoW raiding gear-stepping, but without levels?)

This is a positive for me. You shouldn't start off the game as a level one adult that does 6 damage and has 100 health and then at end game do 6000 damage and have 50000 health. This actually adds to the game for me making better gear a priority over some inflated character #s.

-The same engine that runs Planetside 2

Once again...not a negative to most.

-Developers that think making the graphics look BETTER, or correcting their mistakes, is a crime (ie: Banning for SweetFX)

Devs are taking note that you don't have to build a game that pushes regular pc users to have to buy another new system or graphics card. This means more players can access the game and have fun with it which is important.

Misc:

-PvP was mentioned, and then thrown under the bus to not be spoken about until Beta?

They are once again still refining and getting systems in place for pvp before announcing it. This is smart.

-How does the world handle "Troll" guilds destroying the world? 

Beginner areas won't be able to be messed up much. As you go out further there will be deeper interaction. Players will probably be responsible for patrolling player built properties and pvp'ing against players that want to destroy it, however..once again, it's still to early to know for sure.

-What's the regeneration timer on destroyed world pieces?

There will be some that are not destroyable, while others are. The timer might be based on how much destruction is occuring and how often, similar to how some games handle scaling battles to the amount of players in an area.

-What's the limit to how much/deep you can destroy before the game physically stops you from doing any more?

My guess.....when you hit lava which may cause a volcano and make a large area around un-inhabitable for a while, or possibly like in mining where it becomes incredibly difficult to dig past a certain kind of rock without a different tool.

-How does the Engine handle 100 players in the same area? Does it dynamically-instance players from each other like PS2? (this turned PS2 into a mess btw)

The game is being built for PC first and we shall have to wait and see. If the system is done correctly, players will not need to worry to much about it.

At the end of the day, the game is unplayable with their current WoW 2.0 Cartoon art-style, but is one of the more future-oriented core mechanics games we've seen since SWG/DAOC. Truly a frustrating event

You are concentrating way to much on the art style. Saying a game is unplayable because you don't agree with a style they have chosen for the look of the game is totally wrong. If you said it was your opinion that it was unplayable for you....that would be correct.

So don't play the game if you don't like the graphics enough to not give it a shot. They will not lose anything by you not trying it. It's a free game!

  grifj

Novice Member

Joined: 7/30/13
Posts: 111

8/24/13 2:25:30 PM#72
Originally posted by wesmo
What you have to realize is that  you are a part of a noise minority, and since SOE is not an ONG, and the niche group you represent all does not represent the market , you are wasting your time. I think the project is 100% promising and I ll gladly pay for the game once it come out. My point is there is more people like me than people like you and they will please whoever give them more money. So, you are wasting your time.

I love that whenever somebody disagrees with somebody, they label them as a part of a "noisy minority."  Never ceases to be hilarious.

  Latronus

Novice Member

Joined: 1/10/08
Posts: 718

PC is not political correctness, it means Political Cowardice!

8/24/13 2:27:10 PM#73
Originally posted by Shadowguy64
WoW's graphics aren't aimed at children, or whatever you implied. 

Yes they were/are. 

  Sengi

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/01/09
Posts: 309

8/24/13 2:39:53 PM#74
Originally posted by Arcona
Originally posted by BearKnight

-Graphics aimed at Children, think WoW 2.0

They mentioned that faces are cartoony because they wanted to make them very expressive, 3rd person view you view them from a distance.

They use a tech that detects your expressions with your webcam, and transfer it to your avatar.

Yes I know. But if that was their goal, they did a really bad job on the Kerra. He has small eyes and a big jaw. That makes him quite unsuitable for expressing emotions. As you can see in the video they can't display any of the emotions that they show on the human on the kerra as well. He can only roar and growl, and even that looks somewhat strange. 

  jesusjuice69

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/07/13
Posts: 293

8/24/13 2:42:25 PM#75
Originally posted by Latronus
Originally posted by Shadowguy64
WoW's graphics aren't aimed at children, or whatever you implied. 

Yes they were/are. 

No, they aren't.  The Warcraft art style dates back all the way to the early 90s.  Most kids didn't even have PC's back then.

Also, the average age of the MMO gamer is 26.

 

  Sengi

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/01/09
Posts: 309

8/24/13 3:04:41 PM#76
Originally posted by Xthos

I don't like a lot of what they are doing, but man, crushing a box of Kleenex tissues every day on the forums is not going to make them redesign the game...They may change some small things, but they are not going to scrap the game and start over.

 

The most you might get is some model touch ups, and such, but the major things are staying, good or bad.  I don't like the weapon tied skills, gw2 combat, gfx aren't my thing...and I voice it, but their is a couple people on a crusade, you guys are going so overboard, people are just probably going to ignore you for the most part, since every thread is the sky has fallen.

 

Maybe if you guys pick a few smaller things and focus, but to basically boycott the whole game and rail against about every aspect, your spread yourselves out too much imo. 

Hell no, who said anything about scraping the game or boycotting it. I guess even the OP isn't asking for that. The title of the is totally inappropriate. I should have been: "My opinions about EQN" or something like that. I guess its meant to be cynical, but he rather comes about as a plain naysayer.

As for me, I still believe that EQN will set a new standard for MMOS. Otherwise I wouldn't be here. All I ask for are small but quite important changes. It depends how far they are with the character models, but even if they are ready, they could still change them if they wanted, considering they scraped the entire game twice.

  Karble

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/13/09
Posts: 650

I play therefor I am

8/24/13 3:15:03 PM#77
Originally posted by Sengi
Originally posted by Arcona
Originally posted by BearKnight

-Graphics aimed at Children, think WoW 2.0

They mentioned that faces are cartoony because they wanted to make them very expressive, 3rd person view you view them from a distance.

They use a tech that detects your expressions with your webcam, and transfer it to your avatar.

Yes I know. But if that was their goal, they did a really bad job on the Kerra. He has small eyes and a big jaw. That makes him quite unsuitable for expressing emotions. As you can see in the video they can't display any of the emotions that they show on the human on the kerra as well. He can only roar and growl, and even that looks somewhat strange. 

The roar and growl are obviously early portions of the character expression system. It can and will be done. Have you ever seen Madagascar 1, 2, or 3? Alex the the lion has so many emotes and talks all the time. With this sort of animation they can make emotes simple and easy.

  Karble

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/13/09
Posts: 650

I play therefor I am

8/24/13 3:20:47 PM#78
Originally posted by Sengi
Originally posted by Xthos

I don't like a lot of what they are doing, but man, crushing a box of Kleenex tissues every day on the forums is not going to make them redesign the game...They may change some small things, but they are not going to scrap the game and start over.

 

The most you might get is some model touch ups, and such, but the major things are staying, good or bad.  I don't like the weapon tied skills, gw2 combat, gfx aren't my thing...and I voice it, but their is a couple people on a crusade, you guys are going so overboard, people are just probably going to ignore you for the most part, since every thread is the sky has fallen.

 

Maybe if you guys pick a few smaller things and focus, but to basically boycott the whole game and rail against about every aspect, your spread yourselves out too much imo. 

Hell no, who said anything about scraping the game or boycotting it. I guess even the OP isn't asking for that. The title of the is totally inappropriate. I should have been: "My opinions about EQN" or something like that. I guess its meant to be cynical, but he rather comes about as a plain naysayer.

As for me, I still believe that EQN will set a new standard for MMOS. Otherwise I wouldn't be here. All I ask for are small but quite important changes. It depends how far they are with the character models, but even if they are ready, they could still change them if they wanted, considering they scraped the entire game twice.

I am sure you have heard of the character customization screen.

It is in this screen you can adjust things like

Mouth size and position.

Chin style and size.

Eye color, size, position.

They simply chose to make him look like your typical large chin hero archtype similar to Buzz Lightyear or many other tuff but approachable knightly hero characters.

  Galadourn

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/06/08
Posts: 1050

8/24/13 3:38:35 PM#79
Originally posted by Iselin

Here's my take on "soul crushing"

SOE announces that they've gone back to the drawing board with the next EQ title and are developing some new revolutionary ideas never before seen in MMOs...and they use the "S" word.

The lonely little EQ forum at mmorpg.com explodes with interest and speculation. First a new forum gets created off the EQ main forum...later on it becomes a separate forum.

Former and current EQ I and II players start coming out of the woodwork. They take pride in their knowledge about the IP and their fantasies are mostly projections of those things about EQ they remember fondly. They loudly shoot-down anyone who speculates about new things that are not "true to the IP."

The game finally gets revealed and, surprise, it really is new and very, very different.

All of a sudden, prior membership in the exclusive EQ club is not all that relevant.

Much garment rending, hair pulling and general angst ensues.

Meanwhile, back in the land of the non-committed casual observer, general glee and excitement ensues. This group is overwhelmingly positive about the news. This annoys the crap out of the "old faithfull." Some even describe it in true 19th century operatic fashion as having their "soul crushed."

 I might be wrong, but that's how I'm seeing it.

well put 

http://kck.st/Xo38HT

  Sengi

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/01/09
Posts: 309

8/24/13 4:04:39 PM#80
Originally posted by Karble
Originally posted by Sengi
Originally posted by Arcona

They mentioned that faces are cartoony because they wanted to make them very expressive, 3rd person view you view them from a distance.

They use a tech that detects your expressions with your webcam, and transfer it to your avatar.

Yes I know. But if that was their goal, they did a really bad job on the Kerra. He has small eyes and a big jaw. That makes him quite unsuitable for expressing emotions. As you can see in the video they can't display any of the emotions that they show on the human on the kerra as well. He can only roar and growl, and even that looks somewhat strange. 

The roar and growl are obviously early portions of the character expression system. It can and will be done. Have you ever seen Madagascar 1, 2, or 3? Alex the the lion has so many emotes and talks all the time. With this sort of animation they can make emotes simple and easy.

And do you think Alex the lion belongs in Everquest, and what about the Penguins and King Julien?

 

If you compare both characters you will see that Alax the lion actually is more anthropomorphize much better suited for expressing emotions. His mouth is more human like, he has a steeper forehead and his eyes are round. The Kerra instead has a wedge-shaped head wit a flat forehead (Actually it is flatter than that of a real lion), narrow eyes and a long maw that seems only to be suited to open and close like a hand puppet. The whole face looks overly rigid.

 

But on thing they have in common - the big oversized nose. This makes both character look goofy and not menacing. This is probably works well for Madagascar, but it contradicts everything they said they wanted for the Kerra warrior.

 

If the really want it to work with SOEmote, they need something that is more anthropomorphic or like a domestic cat. You just can't display human emotion on an animal head that lacks anthropomorphic features.    

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