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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » How to kill a dragon ?

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  Jean-Luc_Picard

Elite Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2605

There... are... four... lights!

8/24/13 7:59:56 AM#21
Originally posted by DMKano

The real question why would you?

If the dragon is not messing with you or your village, let it be. It is not going to drop mithril underwear of epicness, it doesn't have any loot.

Find a way to coexist.

Dragons often have a treasure in the lore...

Playing now: Archeage, WoW, Landmark, GW2

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

  Mr.Kujo

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/23/12
Posts: 359

“Discussion is impossible with someone who claims not to seek the truth, but already to possess it.”

8/24/13 8:09:18 AM#22
Originally posted by DMKano

The real question why would you?

If the dragon is not messing with you or your village, let it be. It is not going to drop mithril underwear of epicness, it doesn't have any loot.

Find a way to coexist.

It depends on lore. In almost every legend possible, whether it is Christian, Greek, Slavic or Chinese it is always depicted as malevolent. It always has bad intentions, it is always evil, and always wants to conquer new territory. And in every myth there is a hero that needs to defeat it. And games took the idea from all that.

If you make a lore, where dragons can coexist with humans, then it would be possible.

But for any other myth and lore in this world, the answer to your question "why would you" would be because it is either you or a dragon.

  Jean-Luc_Picard

Elite Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2605

There... are... four... lights!

8/24/13 8:41:43 AM#23
Originally posted by Mr.Kujo
Originally posted by DMKano

The real question why would you?

If the dragon is not messing with you or your village, let it be. It is not going to drop mithril underwear of epicness, it doesn't have any loot.

Find a way to coexist.

It depends on lore. In almost every legend possible, whether it is Christian, Greek, Slavic or Chinese it is always depicted as malevolent. It always has bad intentions, it is always evil, and always wants to conquer new territory. And in every myth there is a hero that needs to defeat it. And games took the idea from all that.

If you make a lore, where dragons can coexist with humans, then it would be possible.

But for any other myth and lore in this world, the answer to your question "why would you" would be because it is either you or a dragon.

There are exceptions, though.

- Dragonriders of Pern by Anne McCaffrey. If they start to kill their dragons, the whole planet may as well commit suicide, it will be less painful.

- World of Warcraft. The aspects aren't automatically evil. The red aspect helps the players in many occasions.

- The movie Dragonheart, where dragons seem to be actually wiser than the humans...

- Dungeon and Dragons, some dragons are good and others evil.

- The dragons in "The Dragon and the Georges", by Gordon R. Dickson. In this one, dragons are actually sentient beings who just want to live in peace for most, and humans (they call "Georges" because of "St Georges") hunt them for sport and fame, and because they misunderstand them. A bit like we idiots hunted some species to extinction.

I'm sure there are more, those are just out of my mind.

Playing now: Archeage, WoW, Landmark, GW2

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

  Nitth

Elite Member

Joined: 7/29/10
Posts: 3194

Magic Propels my Rolly Chair.

8/24/13 8:48:11 AM#24


Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Fact remains, Onyxia can swallow a human in one piece... so when she doesn't do it, and just stands there like a dumb moron (which she isn't according to her story line, by the way) while an army of weaker character beat her on the ankles, it looks cheesy.


Soo...what your trying to say here is onixa should of just 1 shot you, then moved to the next player and continued down the line?

Trying to use logic in a fantasy universe is illogical..


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  Jean-Luc_Picard

Elite Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2605

There... are... four... lights!

8/24/13 8:52:43 AM#25
Originally posted by Nitth

 


Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Fact remains, Onyxia can swallow a human in one piece... so when she doesn't do it, and just stands there like a dumb moron (which she isn't according to her story line, by the way) while an army of weaker character beat her on the ankles, it looks cheesy.



Soo...what your trying to say here is onixa should of just 1 shot you, then moved to the next player and continued down the line?

 

Trying to use logic in a fantasy universe is illogical..

What I'm saying is that a player shouldn't be able to simple stand there when a creature the size and strength of a dragon bashes his face. Some games manage to do this just fine. It's (e.g.) having to dodge when the dragon opens his jaws to try to eat you or cut you in two tasty dead parts to feed his whelps.

Playing now: Archeage, WoW, Landmark, GW2

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

  Vapors

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/16/10
Posts: 381

8/24/13 8:59:21 AM#26
The first dragonfight in SKYRIM, just awesome and very cool made just like a movie, with a tower u can hide with a whole army with arrows and bows, fighting him while the dragon enrages the whole area keep killing some of the army, while u can steal their arrows and keep shooting him aswell after a few he comes down u can try to behead him with ur meele weapon:D pretty much enjoyed that fight even I must admit, some others may experienced it bit easier to more lame, I just had no equip or anything so I could not even tank 2 fire breaths.
  Kevyne-Shandris

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/10/08
Posts: 1980

You can't † BURY † ¤¤ Holy Paladins ¤¤ As we will always __.- ASCEND -.__

8/24/13 9:00:56 AM#27
Originally posted by Mr.Kujo
Originally posted by UNATCOII
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
He can resurrect, but he isn't invincible. Unless you play games with cheats, in any existing MMORPG or even RPG, your character can be defeated (aka fail).

 

He can rise again, as he can never truly die.

 

Thus, he is invincible. Indomitable. Incredible.

 

He's the hero, the man god.

 

I think I lost your point, but in the universe you are playing, he is not a god. You have a fantasy world, where everyone can rise from the dead, so it is not godly there but normal. And in that world player is defeated, when he looses battle, not when he dies. He is a hero, he can loose, he can be defeated, but defeat is not a matter of death.

So from the games point of view he is not invincible, he can loose. It is just not by dying like in real world, it is just a matter of different words and different laws of the fictional world. There is nothing godly about a hero in a game. Of course this is theory, in real life games are so easy you can't be defeated too xD

 

Azerorth would not exist without the hero. If the hero was a weakling, what player would want to play anyhow? If there wasn't any players...SWG anyone?

 

So the hero's story goes without saying, as that's for the player to fill in. Short of the permadeath likers, you bet the hero is a man god and treated as much. ;)

  Nitth

Elite Member

Joined: 7/29/10
Posts: 3194

Magic Propels my Rolly Chair.

8/24/13 9:01:37 AM#28


Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard

Originally posted by Nitth  

Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard Fact remains, Onyxia can swallow a human in one piece... so when she doesn't do it, and just stands there like a dumb moron (which she isn't according to her story line, by the way) while an army of weaker character beat her on the ankles, it looks cheesy.
Soo...what your trying to say here is onixa should of just 1 shot you, then moved to the next player and continued down the line?   Trying to use logic in a fantasy universe is illogical..
What I'm saying is that a player shouldn't be able to simple stand there when a creature the size and strength of a dragon bashes his face. Some games manage to do this just fine. It's (e.g.) having to dodge when the dragon opens his jaws to try to eat you or cut you in two tasty dead parts to feed his whelps.

What you say makes no more logical sense than using a tank.

If a dragon can: swipe-cleave, smash, stomp, bite, clonal fire and tail swipe with unknown dexterity, How do you rationally think you could just "dodge" out the way?

Also putting limiters on a dragon so it "doesn't want to" or "Should not" issue a killing blow is even more absurd then a dragon attacking the person its most angry at.


TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development

  Kevyne-Shandris

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/10/08
Posts: 1980

You can't † BURY † ¤¤ Holy Paladins ¤¤ As we will always __.- ASCEND -.__

8/24/13 9:04:06 AM#29
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by Nitth

 


Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Fact remains, Onyxia can swallow a human in one piece... so when she doesn't do it, and just stands there like a dumb moron (which she isn't according to her story line, by the way) while an army of weaker character beat her on the ankles, it looks cheesy.



Soo...what your trying to say here is onixa should of just 1 shot you, then moved to the next player and continued down the line?

 

Trying to use logic in a fantasy universe is illogical..

What I'm saying is that a player shouldn't be able to simple stand there when a creature the size and strength of a dragon bashes his face. Some games manage to do this just fine. It's (e.g.) having to dodge when the dragon opens his jaws to try to eat you or cut you in two tasty dead parts to feed his whelps.

 

But those games tend to be single player, not with an army to back him up.

 

Your logic here is faulty, because you're seeing it as 1 player against 1 dragon, when in that situation of Oxynia, you are being supported by a raid of 9 to 24 others.

 

You're not fighting that dragon alone.

  Four0Six

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/18/11
Posts: 1069

8/24/13 9:13:02 AM#30

1. Use a massive asteroid from space to cause an extinction level event on the planet. Worked to end the era of the dinosaurs.

2. Stop believing in dragons. Then they will go the way of all the lessor gods and fall into myth and legend.

  Nitth

Elite Member

Joined: 7/29/10
Posts: 3194

Magic Propels my Rolly Chair.

8/24/13 9:15:58 AM#31


Originally posted by Four0Six
2. Stop believing in dragons. Then they will go the way of all the lessor gods and fall into myth and legend.

Pretty much summarized the plot of the NES.


TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development

  Jean-Luc_Picard

Elite Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2605

There... are... four... lights!

8/24/13 9:17:58 AM#32
Originally posted by Nitth

 


Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard

Originally posted by Nitth  

Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard Fact remains, Onyxia can swallow a human in one piece... so when she doesn't do it, and just stands there like a dumb moron (which she isn't according to her story line, by the way) while an army of weaker character beat her on the ankles, it looks cheesy.
Soo...what your trying to say here is onixa should of just 1 shot you, then moved to the next player and continued down the line?   Trying to use logic in a fantasy universe is illogical..
What I'm saying is that a player shouldn't be able to simple stand there when a creature the size and strength of a dragon bashes his face. Some games manage to do this just fine. It's (e.g.) having to dodge when the dragon opens his jaws to try to eat you or cut you in two tasty dead parts to feed his whelps.

 

What you say makes no more logical sense than using a tank.

Really? What would a "real" dragon do? Keep on bashing the plate wearer he can't dent the health of? Or turn onto the squishy healing him?

Agro based tanks are the most nonsensical combat mechanic ever introduced to games. Good AI would make a mob turn to the most dangerous foe, not the one he not only can't hurt, but also who is barely tickling him.

If a dragon can: swipe-cleave, smash, stomp, bite, clonal fire and tail swipe with unknown dexterity, How do you rationally think you could just "dodge" out the way?

Also putting limiters on a dragon so it "doesn't want to" or "Should not" issue a killing blow is even more absurd then a dragon attacking the person its most angry at.

Spoken like a person who can't imagine a game working without the trinity. I've played several, so I know it works.

UO, AC1, GW2 of course, but also even some fights in WoW where bosses don't have a threat table, the most "famous" being the faction champions in Crusader Coliseum.

Don't restrict what is possible to the limits of your own imagination ;)

Playing now: Archeage, WoW, Landmark, GW2

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

  Kevyne-Shandris

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/10/08
Posts: 1980

You can't † BURY † ¤¤ Holy Paladins ¤¤ As we will always __.- ASCEND -.__

8/24/13 9:36:21 AM#33


Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard

Agro based tanks are the most nonsensical combat mechanic ever introduced to games. Good AI would make a mob turn to the most dangerous foe


 


Huh?

Why would the dragon only see the bits of metal with a shield, and not the mage that serves Chinese take out? lol

  Mr.Kujo

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/23/12
Posts: 359

“Discussion is impossible with someone who claims not to seek the truth, but already to possess it.”

8/24/13 9:37:11 AM#34

Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard

There are exceptions, though.

 

I was referring to legends, where the whole idea of dragon originated. I agree that in current literature they got pacified.

 

Originally posted by Vapors
The first dragonfight in SKYRIM, just awesome and very cool made just like a movie, with a tower u can hide with a whole army with arrows and bows, fighting him while the dragon enrages the whole area keep killing some of the army, while u can steal their arrows and keep shooting him aswell after a few he comes down u can try to behead him with ur meele weapon:D pretty much enjoyed that fight even I must admit, some others may experienced it bit easier to more lame, I just had no equip or anything so I could not even tank 2 fire breaths.

 

It's better than most fights out there, but still ridiculous. No sane creature with wings would attack ground enemy that can't even reach it first instead of attacking the enemy that is shooting at it, hurting it. There is no taunt as far as I know, so it is basically a retarded dragon attacking units that can't harm him. You would also think that every flying carnivore would just grab victim, flew high up and drop it, not just stand there and take hits. It is done in some games, and that is awesome.

In terms of immersion skyrim dragon battle was bad, in terms of mindless action it was decent.

 

Originally posted by Nitth

What you say makes no more logical sense than using a tank.

If a dragon can: swipe-cleave, smash, stomp, bite, clonal fire and tail swipe with unknown dexterity, How do you rationally think you could just "dodge" out the way?

Also putting limiters on a dragon so it "doesn't want to" or "Should not" issue a killing blow is even more absurd then a dragon attacking the person its most angry at.

 

The difference between standing still taking blows and dodging is that dodging is less boring and gives the feeling of danger, which is a good thing for a game. You should be busy, the times of chatting in global while fighting dragon should be over by now.

  Elikal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/09/06
Posts: 8067

“No path is darker then when your eyes are shut.” -Flemeth

8/24/13 9:52:48 AM#35
Why do you guys always want to kill Dragons? That's not nice! :(

A forum is a place where people can discuss about different opinions. So what I don't get is, how people react offended when they come to a forum and then find... well different opinions. If a different opinion offends you, what are you even doing here?

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19158

8/24/13 10:02:05 AM#36
Originally posted by Reizla
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by iixviiiix

How we defeat a dragon in a MMORPG ?


 

Send the tank in to keep aggro. DPS players nuke. Healers try to keep everyone alive.

How else?

Send tank in for aggro..? Are you nuts? That tactic is not working in Neverwinter. Instead the tank should keep aggro on the random spawns and keep them away from the healer while the DPSers keep their focus on the dragon...

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xzlcvt_neverwinter-lair-of-the-mad-dragon_videogames

I would suggest you look up the word "sarcasm".

(BTW, this reply is ALSO sarcastic. Please don't reply by "i have already learn that word in elementary school")

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 11845

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, Wildstar, and Combat Arms

8/24/13 10:07:13 AM#37
Originally posted by iixviiiix

Top class enemy in fantasy world ,

with big body monstrous heal and mana , skin harder than steel and an anti magic being.

It can fly and one breath can ruin a small town , each step of it make earth shake ect ect ...

So

How we defeat a dragon in a MMORPG ?

- Send a hero party to ambush when it sleep in nest

- Bring a  thousand men army

- Poison it food

- Cast death's spell (lol)

ect ect ...

So

Do you thing what's best way to defeat a dragon in MMORPG fantasy world ?

 

 

If it's not actually burning your town or killing your livestock, I'd say leave it alone. I mean, you could go to its home, murder it and take its belongings, but then who's actually the villain in that scenario?

 

  Nitth

Elite Member

Joined: 7/29/10
Posts: 3194

Magic Propels my Rolly Chair.

8/24/13 10:23:34 AM#38


Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Really? What would a "real" dragon do? Keep on bashing the plate wearer he can't dent the health of? Or turn onto the squishy healing him?
Thats exactly my point, There is no such thing as a "real dragon", Trying to understand what it is capable of is madness.

But saying a tank which is taunting and provoking the dragon because the dragon wants that guy DEAD is is just as relevant as if you think you can do some maguver roll to dodge a Swipe-Snatch-Flame attack.


Spoken like a person who can't imagine a game working without the trinity. I've played several, so I know it works.

UO, AC1, GW2 of course, but also even some fights in WoW where bosses don't have a threat table, the most "famous" being the faction champions in Crusader Coliseum.

Don't restrict what is possible to the limits of your own imagination ;)


Go look at my games list, I know what alternatives there are. im saying that your claim
"A dragon that just hits the one tank is as unrealistic" is bogus. or atleast as bogus as ever other alternative in a fantasy universe.


TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development

  iixviiiix

Elite Member

Joined: 3/04/13
Posts: 433

 
OP  8/24/13 10:47:02 AM#39
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by iixviiiix

Top class enemy in fantasy world ,

with big body monstrous heal and mana , skin harder than steel and an anti magic being.

It can fly and one breath can ruin a small town , each step of it make earth shake ect ect ...

So

How we defeat a dragon in a MMORPG ?

Do you thing what's best way to defeat a dragon in MMORPG fantasy world ?

 

 

If it's not actually burning your town or killing your livestock, I'd say leave it alone. I mean, you could go to its home, murder it and take its belongings, but then who's actually the villain in that scenario?

 

Well...

It not burning my town or kill my livestock but some of them do take away some hard earning exp % in my past games.

You know , sudden swamp boss or type go around map for fun , sometime hide in normal mobs , they ready do a lots evil work again me and some time cause me tears because of lost

So i do have some hostility again dragon boss

oh

It remind me there are a game i played that allow player turn in to a dragon with monstrous heal and damage double in pvp when one side get disadvantage and it like a nightmare when player who ready strong turn into dragon.

 because they are intelligent player "dragon" , normal way of tank and heal don't work again them , it nearly no way to take down them, best way are run away from they sign because 1 hit of dragon charge mean dead lol.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19158

8/24/13 11:45:31 AM#40
Originally posted by Loktofeit

If it's not actually burning your town or killing your livestock, I'd say leave it alone. I mean, you could go to its home, murder it and take its belongings, but then who's actually the villain in that scenario?

 

And who says we have to be the good guys in games?

Most MMOs are about progression and loot, while murdering whole races. They are just fantasy of exerting our power in the world.

If it is ugly and don't look  like hot female elves, i say we kill it and get the purple drops from them.

 

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