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EverQuest Next

EverQuest Next 

General Discussion  » Hats off to Smed

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82 posts found
  Wakygreek

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 4/30/08
Posts: 1244

Reason is a necessity

8/22/13 4:21:47 PM#41
Originally posted by Ganksinatra
Originally posted by Drakephire
Originally posted by Wakygreek
EQ1 is not a sandbox, its a very large themepark with minimal hand holding and severe consequence for making mistakes.

It was (is) barely a themepark even.  I'd classify it as a themebox, a hybrid before its time.

I would agree with this, and to a certain extent, I think that goes sort of for EQNext  as well.

I agree with the fact that EQN may be a Themebox, but that is dependent on the systems they implement. Wait and see imo.

  jerlot65

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/05/08
Posts: 802

8/22/13 4:24:06 PM#42
Originally posted by Apraxis
Originally posted by jerlot65
Originally posted by ReallyNow10

While we may not all be happy with the music or the cartoonish graphics, we should admit Smedley did give us a sandbox after all of these years, and this must have been a bold, risky and tough decision to make.

Hats off to the guy for not handing us another breadcrumb trail misery storyline park.

Listen, i like the game so far from what I heard.  However regarding the whole sandbox thing?  He is so far giving us the run around.  Sure Landmark "COULD" be the biggest sandbox MMO ever.  However Landmark is almost completely seperate from the actual EQ Next MMO.  As of right now we only know that some preapproved player content may be used by devs and placed in the game, thats it.  We dont even know what, where, and how things can be built in EQ Next.  So as of right now, there isnt  hardly any sandbox features in EQ Next.

Well.. we know that we can build stuff in the open world in EQN. But even if you asume we wouldn't know.

We do know

- EQN will feature multiclassing

- EQN will more about horizontal progression and less vertical

and those two are sandbox features.. like it or not. And almost everything else is more of a sandbox feature instead a themeparkish feature.. i couldn't name one thing that they said would indicate themepark.. even the rallying call is a lot more sandboxish as their counterparts named public quests and dynamic events.

So you can argue a lot, you can not like it, and everything.. but you can hardly call it a themepark.


How is multiclassing, horizontal progression in an MMO in anyway compared to an actual sandbox.  The term was given to games like SWG not because of its skill systems or pvp.  It was given to SWG because of how the world was laid out.  The world had some wildlife and some cities but for the most part the game was left to the players to manipulate and build upon just like a real life sandbox.  In a real sandbox you didnt have much stuff other than the few tools you were given but could build anything you wanted.

And the problem is people trying to use the word sandbox as the opposite as themepark.  A game can be not a themepark and not a sandbox game at the same time.  EQ 1 was not a theme park.  There no set path to take from one quest hub to the next.  There was no rails and boundaries in the lands.  However EQ 1 wasnt a sandbox either.  The world was static.  You could change nothing about the world.  You could not build or anything "tangible" in the game.

So i would in no way call EQ Next a themepark.  But i have yet to see anything in EQ Next that suggests its a sandbox either.

  vidiotking

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/05/08
Posts: 579

one in the bush is better than one in the hand.

8/22/13 4:36:57 PM#43

.Bottom line is the definition of a sandbox game is the ability to go anywhere and see anything from the time you log in. That's it. Al the other crap everyone insists is part of it have been added and subtracted several times over the length of the genre, but only one thing remained......the definition I gave. 

 

Says who? Your definition of a sandbox is not any more accurate or 'correct' than mine is... 

  Ganksinatra

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/28/09
Posts: 284

8/22/13 4:47:53 PM#44
Originally posted by vidiotking

.Bottom line is the definition of a sandbox game is the ability to go anywhere and see anything from the time you log in. That's it. Al the other crap everyone insists is part of it have been added and subtracted several times over the length of the genre, but only one thing remained......the definition I gave. 

 

Says who? Your definition of a sandbox is not any more accurate or 'correct' than mine is... 

.....says EVERY POSTED DEFINITION OF A SANDBOX MMO ON THE INTERNET >.<. Like I said, some add and subtract all of the romanticized elements (player made buildings, player made economy, no levels, etc), but the ONLY part of the definition that is 100% the SAME across the board is the ability to go anywhere from the first time you log in. That's it.

 

A house used to be considered a house if it had 4 walls and a roof. Then it was only a house if it had all that plus plumbing. Then electricity. Now, during the zombie apocalypse, will you be standing outside of a structure arguing that it's "not really a house" because it doesn't have those things you insist should be part of a house, or are you gonna duck inside the house and avoid having your brains eaten? =P

  vidiotking

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/05/08
Posts: 579

one in the bush is better than one in the hand.

8/22/13 4:49:26 PM#45
Originally posted by Ganksinatra
Originally posted by vidiotking

.Bottom line is the definition of a sandbox game is the ability to go anywhere and see anything from the time you log in. That's it. Al the other crap everyone insists is part of it have been added and subtracted several times over the length of the genre, but only one thing remained......the definition I gave. 

 

Says who? Your definition of a sandbox is not any more accurate or 'correct' than mine is... 

.....says EVERY POSTED DEFINITION OF A SANDBOX MMO ON THE INTERNET >.<. Like I said, some add and subtract all of the romanticized elements (player made buildings, player made economy, no levels, etc), but the ONLY part of the definition that is 100% the SAME across the board is the ability to go anywhere from the first time you log in. That's it.

 

A house used to be considered a house if it had 4 walls and a roof. Then it was only a house if it had all that plus plumbing. Then electricity. Now, during the zombie apocalypse, will you be standing outside of a structure arguing that it's "not really a house" because it doesn't have those things you insist should be part of a house, or are you gonna duck inside the house and avoid having your brains eaten? =P

I looked on the 'internet' and did not find a definitive answer to what a sandbox mmo is... so. I think you're wrong.

  GrayKodiak

Novice Member

Joined: 11/15/12
Posts: 576

8/22/13 4:52:28 PM#46
Originally posted by jerlot65

 

Also, please give me actual quotes about housing in EQ NEXT, not Landmark, EQ NEXT.

 

Well we were given todays quote, which honestly is the most we have seen, that players will own land in EQNEXT though it will not be the same mechanic as landmark....and that templates from landmark can be moved to EQnext (and then assembled by plugging in the right resources)

You know having the most developer centric tools in another game may allow for a better flow in EQNext while still allowing for a great deal of player customization by way of Landmark.

For instance if they tried to combine the two the UI in Next would suffer, as would both the immersion and the ability to craft undisturbed by the world going on around you, for instance if a camp of orcs set up near your plot or fear of using resources in Next whereas they could be more plentiful in Landmark without affecting other aspects like weapon crafting and the like.

I won't call it a GOOD system until we actually see it in play, but it sounds like an interesting one.

  Yamota

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6509

"I fight so you don't have to."

8/22/13 4:55:27 PM#47
Originally posted by ReallyNow10

While we may not all be happy with the music or the cartoonish graphics, we should admit Smedley did give us a sandbox after all of these years, and this must have been a bold, risky and tough decision to make.

Hats off to the guy for not handing us another breadcrumb trail misery storyline park.

If you are referring to EQ Next then he hasn't given us shit until it is released and we can actually see that it is a sandbox and not another hyped up pos.

  Ganksinatra

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/28/09
Posts: 284

8/22/13 5:12:52 PM#48
Originally posted by vidiotking
Originally posted by Ganksinatra
Originally posted by vidiotking

.Bottom line is the definition of a sandbox game is the ability to go anywhere and see anything from the time you log in. That's it. Al the other crap everyone insists is part of it have been added and subtracted several times over the length of the genre, but only one thing remained......the definition I gave. 

 

Says who? Your definition of a sandbox is not any more accurate or 'correct' than mine is... 

.....says EVERY POSTED DEFINITION OF A SANDBOX MMO ON THE INTERNET >.<. Like I said, some add and subtract all of the romanticized elements (player made buildings, player made economy, no levels, etc), but the ONLY part of the definition that is 100% the SAME across the board is the ability to go anywhere from the first time you log in. That's it.

 

A house used to be considered a house if it had 4 walls and a roof. Then it was only a house if it had all that plus plumbing. Then electricity. Now, during the zombie apocalypse, will you be standing outside of a structure arguing that it's "not really a house" because it doesn't have those things you insist should be part of a house, or are you gonna duck inside the house and avoid having your brains eaten? =P

I looked on the 'internet' and did not find a definitive answer to what a sandbox mmo is... so. I think you're wrong.

Apparently, I'm not speaking slow enough. There IS NO definitive definition of Sandbox MMO......there IS however, a running thread through ALL of them......the ability to go anywhere from the start. You are correct to have thought what you thought of a sandbox mmo. Not arguing that. However, it is a sort of genetic mutation of sandbox, not pure sandbox. Pure sandbox is what all definitions of what it should be include.  The alterations are the parts that seem to be added or subtracted at will. I think probably the best, all encompassing definition says something to the effect of "Freedom for a player"......this encompasses all parts that people think of when they think "sandbox"......but that definition also goes on to say that most games will never have that level of freedom expected when someone hears the term "sandbox", and often just refers to the ability to go anywhere from the beginning. Just my two cents. 

 

TL:DR - People are hyping this up based on an unset definition of what "sandbox" is supposed to mean, to them. That makes this game doomed for failure to those who want it just because it's "sandbox".

  AtlasGraves

Novice Member

Joined: 8/22/13
Posts: 15

8/22/13 5:19:07 PM#49

I have always said this about a game. It just has to feel right

the movements and fluidity are so so important. 

 

When world of Warcraft came out nothing could tough it in terms of the way you felt your character as you took control of him or her. 

Everything else for years just felt let's say clunky to not as polished. I hope soe can pull it off very ambitious

  Victor_Kruger

Novice Member

Joined: 8/04/13
Posts: 210

8/22/13 5:19:36 PM#50
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by ReallyNow10

While we may not all be happy with the music or the cartoonish graphics, we should admit Smedley did give us a sandbox after all of these years, and this must have been a bold, risky and tough decision to make.

Hats off to the guy for not handing us another breadcrumb trail misery storyline park.

If you are referring to EQ Next then he hasn't given us shit until it is released and we can actually see that it is a sandbox and not another hyped up pos.

Well its not a thempark game and its certainly not a remake of EQ that people have been raging about on these forums. Everything said about it from no levels, no instance dungeons, limited space for player housing in the game world and strong focus on crafting, you can find all those things in other sand box games. They also added minecraft style game play in it with breakable terrain and resources you can collect in it.

People to are free to chose to not to believe it tell they see it, but all the info we getting from them indicates that its a sandbox game. Is the A.I as good as they say it is, and is the combat not going to be a zergfest? Those are the big unknown questions in my mind.

 

  furbans

Elite Member

Joined: 2/10/13
Posts: 926

8/22/13 5:21:52 PM#51
Originally posted by Victor_Kruger
Originally posted by jerlot65
Originally posted by ReallyNow10

While we may not all be happy with the music or the cartoonish graphics, we should admit Smedley did give us a sandbox after all of these years, and this must have been a bold, risky and tough decision to make.

Hats off to the guy for not handing us another breadcrumb trail misery storyline park.

Listen, i like the game so far from what I heard.  However regarding the whole sandbox thing?  He is so far giving us the run around.  Sure Landmark "COULD" be the biggest sandbox MMO ever.  However Landmark is almost completely seperate from the actual EQ Next MMO.  As of right now we only know that some preapproved player content may be used by devs and placed in the game, thats it.  We dont even know what, where, and how things can be built in EQ Next.  So as of right now, there isnt  hardly any sandbox features in EQ Next.

 

Actually its been said that land grants will be given by npcs in Ever Quest Next for you to use and you can transfer what you made from Land Mark. It won't be instance housing it will be in the actual world and that space is limited. So I imagine good locations will be worth a lot in game.

But isn't the game going to have numerous unlimited instances which would equate to unlimited space?

MMO after MMO have we've been given a list of promises and always have they only delivered half of the promises or that talked it up to the point of distorting it from what it actually is in game.

I think I have a different classification than Smed.  To me sandbox is unlimited roving with everyone with no segregation and being able to pursue a number of careers.  I use the term career in reference to EVE where there is a variety of career paths with missions, ratting, exploration, PvP, trader, research, planetary installations ect ect.  No game have I've seen this and consider it a crucial part to a sandbox.

  Victor_Kruger

Novice Member

Joined: 8/04/13
Posts: 210

8/22/13 5:25:34 PM#52
Originally posted by furbans
Originally posted by Victor_Kruger
Originally posted by jerlot65
Originally posted by ReallyNow10

While we may not all be happy with the music or the cartoonish graphics, we should admit Smedley did give us a sandbox after all of these years, and this must have been a bold, risky and tough decision to make.

Hats off to the guy for not handing us another breadcrumb trail misery storyline park.

Listen, i like the game so far from what I heard.  However regarding the whole sandbox thing?  He is so far giving us the run around.  Sure Landmark "COULD" be the biggest sandbox MMO ever.  However Landmark is almost completely seperate from the actual EQ Next MMO.  As of right now we only know that some preapproved player content may be used by devs and placed in the game, thats it.  We dont even know what, where, and how things can be built in EQ Next.  So as of right now, there isnt  hardly any sandbox features in EQ Next.

 

Actually its been said that land grants will be given by npcs in Ever Quest Next for you to use and you can transfer what you made from Land Mark. It won't be instance housing it will be in the actual world and that space is limited. So I imagine good locations will be worth a lot in game.

But isn't the game going to have numerous unlimited instances which would equate to unlimited space?

Its procedurally generated, everyone will have access to spaces that are open up by exploring, those openings will be closed off after a certain period of time. So I can jump into the hole you just made into the next tier level if I happen to be passing by and see it.

  jerlot65

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/05/08
Posts: 802

8/22/13 5:25:52 PM#53
Originally posted by GrayKodiak
Originally posted by jerlot65

 

Also, please give me actual quotes about housing in EQ NEXT, not Landmark, EQ NEXT.

 

Well we were given todays quote, which honestly is the most we have seen, that players will own land in EQNEXT though it will not be the same mechanic as landmark....and that templates from landmark can be moved to EQnext (and then assembled by plugging in the right resources)

You know having the most developer centric tools in another game may allow for a better flow in EQNext while still allowing for a great deal of player customization by way of Landmark.

For instance if they tried to combine the two the UI in Next would suffer, as would both the immersion and the ability to craft undisturbed by the world going on around you, for instance if a camp of orcs set up near your plot or fear of using resources in Next whereas they could be more plentiful in Landmark without affecting other aspects like weapon crafting and the like.

I won't call it a GOOD system until we actually see it in play, but it sounds like an interesting one.

First where is the quote.  2nd, because there is housing doesn't mean its a sandbox.  3rd, I've said Landmark is a sandbox.  Its what originally the pure definitly of a sand box game is.  Thats Landmark, not EQ.  And so far 99% of anything in Landmark doesnt port over to EQ Next.  All we know is devs MAY use player made stuff in Landmark.  And in housing we MAY be able to use some tools from landmark.

  Burntvet

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/16/07
Posts: 2757

8/22/13 5:27:08 PM#54

Nothing Smed says should EVER be taken at face value. History has shown this conclusively.

EQN might end up being good, but I'll have to see the finished product before I believe anything Smed says.

And even then, history again shows that SOE more often then not mismanages games into the ground, through greed, incompetence, and negligence. So even if EQN starts as a good game (which is not really looking likely at this point, imo), chances are it won't stay that way.

Why anyone is optimistic about this title, after SOE has failed to deliver anything but the most shallow gaming experiences, is beyond me.

 

 

  arieste

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/11/04
Posts: 3309

8/22/13 5:35:15 PM#55
Originally posted by ReallyNow10

we should admit Smedley did give us a sandbox after all of these years, and this must have been a bold, risky and tough decision to make.

Except that this sandbox - so far - has turned out to be Landmark and not EQN.  As far as I know, there are absolutely no sandbox features thus far confirmed for EQN.    I am not saying there aren't any, just saying that it's a bit premature to thank him for a sandbox when we don't know anything about it.

 

No information has been released about crafting, economy, non-combat professions and very little info is available on character progression.  Unless you count "being able to look like the lion king" as a sandbox feature, there isn't anything yet.

 

I will agree with you that it took serious balls to take EQN in the direction that it's being taken and I'm very excited about some of the concepts in the game - rally calls, dynamic content and life of consequence.  But until more is known, EQN can just as easily turn out to be a thempark game with Landmark being the sandbox add-on.  Again, not saying it will, but there is currently no evidence to the contrary.

"I’d rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."

- Raph Koster

Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2
Currently Playing: EQ2, Firefall

  SirFubar

Novice Member

Joined: 7/21/11
Posts: 403

8/22/13 5:52:51 PM#56
Originally posted by ReallyNow10

While we may not all be happy with the music or the cartoonish graphics, we should admit Smedley did give us a sandbox after all of these years, and this must have been a bold, risky and tough decision to make.

Hats off to the guy for not handing us another breadcrumb trail misery storyline park.

I bet many people here will be greatly disappointed on how "sandbox" EQN is going to be. I'm pretty sure it will be more of a mix of themepark and sandbox than a full-fledged sandbox like most people really want.

  cowboyoni

Novice Member

Joined: 6/07/12
Posts: 37

8/22/13 5:54:39 PM#57
Originally posted by Ganksinatra
Originally posted by vidiotking
Originally posted by Ganksinatra
Originally posted by vidiotking

.Bottom line is the definition of a sandbox game is the ability to go anywhere and see anything from the time you log in. That's it. Al the other crap everyone insists is part of it have been added and subtracted several times over the length of the genre, but only one thing remained......the definition I gave. 

 

Says who? Your definition of a sandbox is not any more accurate or 'correct' than mine is... 

.....says EVERY POSTED DEFINITION OF A SANDBOX MMO ON THE INTERNET >.<. Like I said, some add and subtract all of the romanticized elements (player made buildings, player made economy, no levels, etc), but the ONLY part of the definition that is 100% the SAME across the board is the ability to go anywhere from the first time you log in. That's it.

 

A house used to be considered a house if it had 4 walls and a roof. Then it was only a house if it had all that plus plumbing. Then electricity. Now, during the zombie apocalypse, will you be standing outside of a structure arguing that it's "not really a house" because it doesn't have those things you insist should be part of a house, or are you gonna duck inside the house and avoid having your brains eaten? =P

I looked on the 'internet' and did not find a definitive answer to what a sandbox mmo is... so. I think you're wrong.

Apparently, I'm not speaking slow enough. There IS NO definitive definition of Sandbox MMO......there IS however, a running thread through ALL of them......the ability to go anywhere from the start. You are correct to have thought what you thought of a sandbox mmo. Not arguing that. However, it is a sort of genetic mutation of sandbox, not pure sandbox. Pure sandbox is what all definitions of what it should be include.  The alterations are the parts that seem to be added or subtracted at will. I think probably the best, all encompassing definition says something to the effect of "Freedom for a player"......this encompasses all parts that people think of when they think "sandbox"......but that definition also goes on to say that most games will never have that level of freedom expected when someone hears the term "sandbox", and often just refers to the ability to go anywhere from the beginning. Just my two cents. 

 

TL:DR - People are hyping this up based on an unset definition of what "sandbox" is supposed to mean, to them. That makes this game doomed for failure to those who want it just because it's "sandbox".

You honestly seem to be using the offline single player game definition. Such as GTA3 is considered a sandbox game. In the MMO genre sandbox tends to mean player created content. Such as in eve online players can take control of regions, create their own economy within that region, develop what resources are available there ect. So that region will be very different for a player who travels there today than it would be for a player that traveled to that area 2 years ago.

As for EQN I have not heard any substantive sandbox stuff yet. The rally calls and earthquakes reshaping the world does all sound cool. But those things still sound like they are being provides as activities from the game, not neccasarily spontaneously created by the players. Which I'm fine with, as long as the game is engaging to play I don't really care if it's called a sandbox or themepark.

 

I do agree that some people over romanticize 'sandbox' idea. Anyone who has put some time in eve online knows it's not all 3,000 player battles in space or ripping off thousands of players in an elaborate ponzi scheme. Sometimes it's just mining minerals all day and can be pretty boring.

  donpopuki

Novice Member

Joined: 4/06/12
Posts: 599

8/22/13 5:55:01 PM#58

People seem to overlook why games are called sandboxes. Let me provide an image.

 

 

In sanboxes you build stuff. Could you build anything in EQ1? No. So quit calling it a sandbox. Can you build in EQN and EQNLandmark? Hell yes.

  Badaboom

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/04/10
Posts: 2389

8/22/13 6:00:05 PM#59

Sandbox = Lego

Themepark = LEGOLAND

 

  vidiotking

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/05/08
Posts: 579

one in the bush is better than one in the hand.

8/22/13 6:04:21 PM#60
Originally posted by Ganksinatra

Apparently, I'm not speaking slow enough. There IS NO definitive definition of Sandbox MMO......there IS however, a running thread through ALL of them......the ability to go anywhere from the start. 

I disagree.

I see NO "running thread" regarding the "ability to go anywhere from the start."

I see some definitions that say this feature is "usually" included in a  sandbox... but NOT that it is a defining characteristic, or that it can not be a sandbox w/o this feature..

So I'm still not buying it.

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