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WildStar

WildStar 

General Discussion  » Subscription $15 and CREDD $20?

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76 posts found
  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 4156

Remember the blisters you'd get in the palm of your hand from the corner of that joystick?

8/22/13 9:39:41 AM#61
Originally posted by Bacchira
Originally posted by indojabijin

I think some people are missing the fact that the CREDD system is working like a stock market exchange. It is not player controlled pricing. I fully expect CREDD to yield a moderate amount of in game currency but nothing ground breaking where someone can buy fantastic gear without spending hundreds of dollars on CREDD.

I'm not sure if I misunderstood your post but you are right that it is like a stock exchange, which makes it indeed player controlled.

If you own a CREDD you can ask whatever price you want for it but its real value is what anyone is currently willing to pay for it. The more who wants to buy compared to the ones that wants to sell, the higher the price will be, in other words, controlled by the collective sum of buyers and sellers, the players.

Personally I don't see any problems with CREDD, it's just in-game money going from one player to another. If Carbine were to sell in-game currency themselves though, that would be totally bollocks.

 

edit: Can't spell for crap tonight

What I want to know is this:

Early on in the game, many players will not have the gold to put up against CREDD. So what happens to the players that want to buy it on day 1? Will the publisher say "No sorry you have to wait until it's offered by another player"? I seriously doubt NCSoft is going to turn away someone waving 20 bucks under their nose saying "Take my money, please take my money." So what then? That's 5 bucks profit per player per transaction. So what if they do something to make the funds available before they are available? Borrow against the future? Create a "system" account to post CREDD against to "prime" the market? If they do that, it's not player controlled, the publisher will establish the value from Day 1.

 

Obviously, it's speculation, but if CREDD is available at launch, there should be some questions raised.

Recently started playing SWTOR. I am posting updates to my experience in this thread:
SWTOR Experience

  Kayo45

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/01/13
Posts: 271

8/22/13 9:42:42 AM#62
Originally posted by killion81

Maybe in their business model, it's not worth providing service to someone that doesn't want to spend $15 per month?  There is some amount of bandwidth, support and PR costs associated with every player.  In my experience, the F2P players are more likely to whine about the cost of microtransactions, as well as "strongly" suggest all of the free things they should receive.  That's both a headache that may not be worth dealing with and negative publicity that they may prefer not to have.  I'm not certain of this and don't have any statistics to back it up, but it's a plausible hypothesis.

Their business model doesnt mean anything if they dont have the subs to back it up. With NCSoft breathing down their neck Wildstar is probably the most likely of the big upcoming 3 (FFXIV, ESO, and Wildstar) to go F2P, IMO. They have a lot of cool ideas and features so it would be a shame but its the truth of the matter. Seems to me the ones that complain the most about what they should get for free are the ones that pay a sub in a hybrid model, and they have every reason to if you ask me.

Regardless alternative payment models are much more efficient. P2Pers hate cash shops and the focus in crappy cash shop developement from F2P/Hybrid payment models while F2P players feel theyre wasting money if they dont play every day. Pay by hour doesnt make the casuals feel forced to play while separate P2P-F2P servers gives both types what they want and a chance to play and spend something rather than being disgruntled, quitting, and paying nothing. Only ones who I can think of having problems with either one are the real freeloaders who never want to pay for anything and think that servers, bandwidth, and maintenance can be covered forever by their measly $60 initial payment.

Originally posted by GeezerGamer
 

What I want to know is this:

Early on in the game, many players will not have the gold to put up against CREDD. So what happens to the players that want to buy it on day 1? Will the publisher say "No sorry you have to wait until it's offered by another player"? I seriously doubt NCSoft is going to turn away someone waving 20 bucks under their nose saying "Take my money, please take my money." So what then? That's 5 bucks profit per player per transaction. So what if they do something to make the funds available before they are available? Borrow against the future? Create a "system" account to post CREDD against to "prime" the market? If they do that, it's not player controlled, the publisher will establish the value from Day 1.

Obviously, it's speculation, but if CREDD is available at launch, there should be some questions raised.

Isnt CREDD free market? Players can buy the 1 month ticket and sell it for whatever they want no? I would assume early adopters would either have to make it affordable to the newbies or save the token for a later date when there is more gold in the population.

  Wizardry

Elite Member

Joined: 8/27/04
Posts: 6352

Perhaps tomorrow will be better.

8/22/13 9:49:50 AM#63

Eve and Eq2 do this.

It is a system that i don't agree with.

I am not saying there is going to be anything wrong but it does create the possibility of RMT revolving around the in game currency to buy the CREDD.The system so they say is designed to allow players to buy it with in game currency and they have it all setup to protect it,but there is nothing stopping the system from exploiting the game gold instead of the CREDD.

The whole design at first sounds really good but then when you think about it in action it might be very bad.

Ok think about the protection system,you have to sell/buy at the lowest cost.Why would anyone put up[ a CREDD if the asking price is so low it is not worth it?Well what if in game currency is soooo hard to come by,you have no choice?

What if you can't trust them and they put up FAKE low currency requests to keep it low?That way you don't get enough currency and need to buy more Credd to serve your purpose?

All speculation of course,but i trust VERY few people and i also don't know the actual game and how it will all work out but that is why i don't like guess work or anything i have no control over.I would definitely NOT buy any game without knowing exactly what i am getting into and in this case,i would be guessing,i don't like that.

 

http://www.youtube.com/user/Napolianboo#p/u/15/rCYLLQCNc1w
Samoan Diamond

  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 4156

Remember the blisters you'd get in the palm of your hand from the corner of that joystick?

8/22/13 9:52:56 AM#64
Originally posted by Kayo45Isnt CREDD free market? Players can buy the 1 month ticket and sell it for whatever they want no? I would assume early adopters would either have to make it affordable to the newbies or save the token for a later date when there is more gold in the population.

THe concerns become Who is establishing the value? The publisher or the player base?

Also, the concept is based on a balanced trade. You earn the "gold" And I trade with you. You give me gold and I'll give you a month of game play. That seems fair enough since the gold should have been gained in the game legitimately. But if the publisher posts it before it's earned by a player, then there is no balance. That's just the game dumping credits into the game for anyone who want's to buy it.

Recently started playing SWTOR. I am posting updates to my experience in this thread:
SWTOR Experience

  Bacchira

Novice Member

Joined: 8/01/13
Posts: 42

8/22/13 1:08:24 PM#65
Originally posted by GeezerGamer
Originally posted by Bacchira
Originally posted by indojabijin

I think some people are missing the fact that the CREDD system is working like a stock market exchange. It is not player controlled pricing. I fully expect CREDD to yield a moderate amount of in game currency but nothing ground breaking where someone can buy fantastic gear without spending hundreds of dollars on CREDD.

I'm not sure if I misunderstood your post but you are right that it is like a stock exchange, which makes it indeed player controlled.

If you own a CREDD you can ask whatever price you want for it but its real value is what anyone is currently willing to pay for it. The more who wants to buy compared to the ones that wants to sell, the higher the price will be, in other words, controlled by the collective sum of buyers and sellers, the players.

Personally I don't see any problems with CREDD, it's just in-game money going from one player to another. If Carbine were to sell in-game currency themselves though, that would be totally bollocks.

 

edit: Can't spell for crap tonight

What I want to know is this:

Early on in the game, many players will not have the gold to put up against CREDD. So what happens to the players that want to buy it on day 1? Will the publisher say "No sorry you have to wait until it's offered by another player"? I seriously doubt NCSoft is going to turn away someone waving 20 bucks under their nose saying "Take my money, please take my money." So what then? That's 5 bucks profit per player per transaction. So what if they do something to make the funds available before they are available? Borrow against the future? Create a "system" account to post CREDD against to "prime" the market? If they do that, it's not player controlled, the publisher will establish the value from Day 1.

 

Obviously, it's speculation, but if CREDD is available at launch, there should be some questions raised.

I think you may misunderstand the transaction flow a bit. NCSoft will never turn down anyone who wants to buy a CREDD token, they have an unlimited supply of the thing. If one million players wants to buy CREDD from day one, they can (that is, buy CREDD from NCSoft for real money).

The question is what would those players do with their tokens? Everyone is playing on their free 30 days sub plus no one has much gold to spare so the demand for those tokens will probably not be very high. If you absolutely want to sell your CREDD day 1 you would probably have to ask very little gold for it (if you sell cheap speculators will buy it and sell it for a higher price later when demand is higher).

The only reason to buy a CREDD is to sell it on the market. You can use it for your own subscription of course but if you do, you just lost $5.

30 days into the game though, someone will probably sit on a handsome pile of gold and look to the market to see if anyone is selling CREDD. If many are selling, they can buy from whoever is asking for the least amount of gold for it. But even then, the amount of gold that the players are asking for their CREDD may be higher than anyone currently can afford. Regardless, NCSoft has no influence whatsoever over the cost of CREDD, the players who are in possession of a token can ask any amount for it but as with everything else in life, the buyers decide if they are willing to buy for that amount or not.

Edit: Tried to clarify a bit

  R1zla

Novice Member

Joined: 6/21/13
Posts: 23

8/22/13 1:18:44 PM#66

Can transform real life cash into in-game currency? PASS

I wasnt overly interested in this game in the first place but with this news i can happily put it out of my mind altogether.

  jesusjuice69

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/07/13
Posts: 293

8/22/13 2:25:26 PM#67
Originally posted by R1zla

Can transform real life cash into in-game currency? PASS

I wasnt overly interested in this game in the first place but with this news i can happily put it out of my mind altogether.

You can do that in any game.

  GrayKodiak

Novice Member

Joined: 11/15/12
Posts: 576

8/22/13 2:39:50 PM#68

EVE's Plex system is managed by several factors,

It certainly allows someone who need some isk to get isk fast with real money, this is undeniable...but Eve is a unique beast compared to a lot of other MMO's. You can not just buy a mothership in Eve and win the game...even if you do buy some great implants and a nicer ship than you would otherwise be able to afford...there is still the very real possibility that someone will shoot that thing out from under you at some point...It seems to do a good job IN EVE of allowing people who make a lot of isk to just pay for the game without spending money. I don't think you can transfer its minimal impact in Eve to a themepark game though....

 

...it will be interesting to see the results on the economy, though it is possible it may control some of the high level gold hording.

 

edit: there is a gap of course in price in game versus price on a gold seller/isk seller site...so I suppose they could play around with trying to squeeze a profit in that time, but when you put in the risk of bans...well that is an added cost you as the player probably don't want to pay to save one real dollar...and you don't have to deal with gold/isk sellers.

  furbans

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/10/13
Posts: 762

8/22/13 2:46:34 PM#69
Originally posted by GrayKodiak

EVE's Plex system is managed by several factors,

It certainly allows someone who need some isk to get isk fast with real money, this is undeniable...but Eve is a unique beast compared to a lot of other MMO's. You can not just buy a mothership in Eve and win the game...even if you do buy some great implants and a nicer ship than you would otherwise be able to afford...there is still the very real possibility that someone will shoot that thing out from under you at some point...It seems to do a good job IN EVE of allowing people who make a lot of isk to just pay for the game without spending money. I don't think you can transfer its minimal impact in Eve to a themepark game though....

 

...it will be interesting to see the results on the economy, though it is possible it may control some of the high level gold hording.

Seems assinine to use a feature in EVE when your game has absolutely nothing in common with EVE which causes the demand for PLEX or it's usefulness.  ISK is EVE's gear which is needed to buy a ship and outfit it.  What does Wildstar have besides housing goodies which some or most can care less about?

  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 4156

Remember the blisters you'd get in the palm of your hand from the corner of that joystick?

8/22/13 3:11:53 PM#70
Originally posted by jesusjuice69
Originally posted by R1zla

Can transform real life cash into in-game currency? PASS

I wasnt overly interested in this game in the first place but with this news i can happily put it out of my mind altogether.

You can do that in any game.

If you want to risk getting hacked and banned. Sure all games have it. But the difference is whether the mechanics support it or not. In games like this, Gold farmers need only undercut the market a bit. and they get to take full advantage of all the in-game mechanics that encourage the purchase of currency.

Where as games like WoW, the number of players willing to risk losing everyhing is much lower. Also you have the developer working as best they can against the sellers. Why do you think things like cooking recipes in Vanilla WoW cost gold but by WotLK, you had to earn them through actually working in the game?

Recently started playing SWTOR. I am posting updates to my experience in this thread:
SWTOR Experience

  GrayKodiak

Novice Member

Joined: 11/15/12
Posts: 576

8/22/13 3:26:28 PM#71
Originally posted by GeezerGamer
Originally posted by jesusjuice69
Originally posted by R1zla

Can transform real life cash into in-game currency? PASS

I wasnt overly interested in this game in the first place but with this news i can happily put it out of my mind altogether.

You can do that in any game.

If you want to risk getting hacked and banned. Sure all games have it. But the difference is whether the mechanics support it or not. In games like this, Gold farmers need only undercut the market a bit. and they get to take full advantage of all the in-game mechanics that encourage the purchase of currency.

Where as games like WoW, the number of players willing to risk losing everyhing is much lower. Also you have the developer working as best they can against the sellers. Why do you think things like cooking recipes in Vanilla WoW cost gold but by WotLK, you had to earn them through actually working in the game?

You can't undercut a free floating item like PLEX though, the market is whatever it is, for instance lets say 17.99 gets you one plex (which I think it does right now) well that plex does not have a set isk (or gold or whatever in wildstar) value it is simply worth what the player will pay for it...so 17.99 will get you whatever people think it is worth in the game...lets say it is worth 500,000 isk..which it is right now...an isk seller cant then undercut the value of real money and sell 600,000 isk for 17.99 because it will immediately raise the price of PLEX ingame in response...so the value of plex in game will go up to 600,000 and the isk seller gets cut out of the market. The developer (ccp in EVE) is making all the money instead of the gold seller and hopefully using that to reinvest in the game instead of it floating out into some gold sellers hand.

  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 4156

Remember the blisters you'd get in the palm of your hand from the corner of that joystick?

8/22/13 3:29:16 PM#72
Originally posted by GrayKodiak
Originally posted by GeezerGamer
Originally posted by jesusjuice69
Originally posted by R1zla

Can transform real life cash into in-game currency? PASS

I wasnt overly interested in this game in the first place but with this news i can happily put it out of my mind altogether.

You can do that in any game.

If you want to risk getting hacked and banned. Sure all games have it. But the difference is whether the mechanics support it or not. In games like this, Gold farmers need only undercut the market a bit. and they get to take full advantage of all the in-game mechanics that encourage the purchase of currency.

Where as games like WoW, the number of players willing to risk losing everyhing is much lower. Also you have the developer working as best they can against the sellers. Why do you think things like cooking recipes in Vanilla WoW cost gold but by WotLK, you had to earn them through actually working in the game?

You can't undercut a free floating item like PLEX though, the market is whatever it is, for instance lets say 17.99 gets you one plex (which I think it does right now) well that plex does not have a set isk (or gold or whatever in wildstar) value it is simply worth what the player will pay for it...so 17.99 will get you whatever people think it is worth in the game...lets say it is worth 500,000 isk..which it is right now...an isk seller cant then undercut the value of real money and sell 600,000 isk for 17.99 because it will immediately raise the price of PLEX ingame in response...so the value of plex in game will go up to 600,000 and the isk seller gets cut out of the market. The developer (ccp in EVE) is making all the money instead of the gold seller and hopefully using that to reinvest in the game instead of it floating out into some gold sellers hand.

I was actually thinking in WoW terms of gold farming. But this is good to know.

Recently started playing SWTOR. I am posting updates to my experience in this thread:
SWTOR Experience

  Jinzouningen

Novice Member

Joined: 12/23/03
Posts: 30

Yeah..From way back.

8/22/13 3:35:21 PM#73
Originally posted by killion81
Originally posted by Kayo45
I dont understand why developers never think outside the box when it comes to payment models. They can go for either separate f2p and p2p servers where cash shop items never go to f2p. Or they can do the asian model thing where you pay by the hour.

Not that i know for a fact those would work out better but at least its not alienating any potential players or at least addresses the concerns of both sides (no cash shop for p2p, no pressure to play for f2p). True freeloaders that never buy anything dont really matter ..... dont see why any dev would want them taking up resources.

 

Maybe in their business model, it's not worth providing service to someone that doesn't want to spend $15 per month?  There is some amount of bandwidth, support and PR costs associated with every player.  In my experience, the F2P players are more likely to whine about the cost of microtransactions, as well as "strongly" suggest all of the free things they should receive.  That's both a headache that may not be worth dealing with and negative publicity that they may prefer not to have.  I'm not certain of this and don't have any statistics to back it up, but it's a plausible hypothesis.

Right. i mean those games offering f2p and a fancy item mall are out there. theyre the crappy majority. i dont see why people flock to the forums of a game that isnt offering the luke warm, easy mode way to play and crummy pay model and complain. They already took a dump in the forums of alllll the  (awesome...high population...*laugh*) f2p games and now theyre sniffing around for another spot. 

  Jinzouningen

Novice Member

Joined: 12/23/03
Posts: 30

Yeah..From way back.

8/22/13 3:46:20 PM#74
Originally posted by Kayo45
Originally posted by killion81

Maybe in their business model, it's not worth providing service to someone that doesn't want to spend $15 per month?  There is some amount of bandwidth, support and PR costs associated with every player.  In my experience, the F2P players are more likely to whine about the cost of microtransactions, as well as "strongly" suggest all of the free things they should receive.  That's both a headache that may not be worth dealing with and negative publicity that they may prefer not to have.  I'm not certain of this and don't have any statistics to back it up, but it's a plausible hypothesis.

Their business model doesnt mean anything if they dont have the subs to back it up. With NCSoft breathing down their neck Wildstar is probably the most likely of the big upcoming 3 (FFXIV, ESO, and Wildstar) to go F2P, IMO. They have a lot of cool ideas and features so it would be a shame but its the truth of the matter. Seems to me the ones that complain the most about what they should get for free are the ones that pay a sub in a hybrid model, and they have every reason to if you ask me.

Heh yeah thats bullcrap. Because all games that are f2p are top notch and have massive populations.....

Also in the past all the successful games who are copied by watered down f2p trash, were all subs. Im sure Blizz made no money on Wow at all because of their subs. Its not the pay model that gets you players its whether or not your game is worth a crap. 

Its just like a hoarder. Theyre content with their pile of garbage and dirty diapers. it takes an act of congress to get em to move out of a cat filled, filth ridden , condemned house because thats what they like. If you love f2p games and theyre item malls so much you can stay in your hoarder house. Honestly it wont dictate whether Wildstar succeeds.

  R1zla

Novice Member

Joined: 6/21/13
Posts: 23

8/22/13 3:48:14 PM#75
Originally posted by jesusjuice69
Originally posted by R1zla

Can transform real life cash into in-game currency? PASS

I wasnt overly interested in this game in the first place but with this news i can happily put it out of my mind altogether.

You can do that in any game.

Theres a big difference between having it built into the game itself as a feature where NOT doing it handicaps you... (to what i referred)

or

Doing it as part of a vast minority in a way that is not allowed within the game rules. Thus risking being hacked or banned from the game (to what you referred)

  Jinzouningen

Novice Member

Joined: 12/23/03
Posts: 30

Yeah..From way back.

8/22/13 3:50:03 PM#76
Originally posted by GeezerGamer
Originally posted by Kayo45Isnt CREDD free market? Players can buy the 1 month ticket and sell it for whatever they want no? I would assume early adopters would either have to make it affordable to the newbies or save the token for a later date when there is more gold in the population.

THe concerns become Who is establishing the value? The publisher or the player base?

Also, the concept is based on a balanced trade. You earn the "gold" And I trade with you. You give me gold and I'll give you a month of game play. That seems fair enough since the gold should have been gained in the game legitimately. But if the publisher posts it before it's earned by a player, then there is no balance. That's just the game dumping credits into the game for anyone who want's to buy it.

These are decent forums here but instead of listening to peoples assumptions all the info is disclosed on the Wildstar official site. Theres no real reason to guess. Theyve already systematically laid it all out, but people have a habit of interjecting their opinions or plain ole making stuff up. 

The site shows exactly what the CREDD system is / will be atm. Everything else is just wild speculation.

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