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News & Features Discussion  » [Column] WildStar: Subscriptions Are Alright By Me

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115 posts found

Novice Member

Joined: 7/18/13
Posts: 36

8/21/13 1:39:53 PM#41

I sit and wonder why ppl who are so adamant about F2P and how it's the future and so much butter than its P2P counterpart. And in my thinking Ive reached these conclusions:

1) maybe they honestly arent paying more money than we are in a P2P. Maybe they are a full-time-whatever and dont progress in a game as fast as us in a sub and would prefer to stay on the same map for two weeks. And to that I cant see any wrong. Its no ones fault that we are crunching through content as blazing speeds, AND its not anyones fault that you like to take your god given time on that game that you play for the lack of skill, money, time, etc. Im not throwing shots, IJS. 

2) at the same time, there is NOW WAY IN HELL a given person who progresses as fast as I do in a P2P in a F2P is spending less money. I will put my right had on the MMO bible and go on record to say Ive play 99% of the most popular F2Ps on the market. In the ones Ive actually wanted to be good at, I spent, on avg 10-20 bucks a WEEK on bs like extended bag space, faster mounts, gear upgrading via gems or whatever, a fucking nother currency to buy something I needed to kill a mob on the next map, lotto boxes on something ELSE I need to up gear with.....listen the list goes on. So to this I scratch my head a lil more thinking, "what the fuck was wrong with me and I honestly had half the fun WITH my friends as opposed that that sub game we used to play."

2) at the end of my pondering I thought to myself, well tbh all these models work for what type of game it is:

  • More content than Im used to?! A rich and detailed UNinstanced world?! Bugs being fixed on the regular?! Rewarding crafting system?! Challenges that await me and my friends around every corner?!....I MUST be playing a P2P (or B2P)
  • Feeling like Im in a tube-like world?! The only thing I have to look forward to in endgame is PVP?!?!?!? Boring as 2-5 person dng runs?! gimpy market with exploited bugs?! 50 bucks dropped this month and Im still not half way to max lvl?! Buy this to buy this to buy this progression via CS?! Content updates every 6-2 years.....hahah This MUST be a F2P
  • Semi good to very good lvling experience?! Sandboxy feel?! Large WvW pvp?! Sure some content updates?!...aaHHhh, This feels B2P-ish 
Hey man, those models FIT those games! I cant argue with that. So Ive decided to cease with my usual outlook on either model and just put tags on them in my thoughts stead. Because at the end of the day, its our money and how we want to spend it. I just am not about to spend more for fun than I have/should to. 
So to that I say good luck in you alls gaming endeavors. And thank God P2P still holds it worth in time and effort put into it. 

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/19/12
Posts: 1719

8/21/13 1:45:41 PM#42 day.....i read on up neverwinter...watched some videos, it looked pretty cool....i donwloaded it...started playing....not even 5 min in, i loot a monstor I just killed, low and behold, a chest!...awsome!.....wait what?...I cant open it unless I buy a key from the item shop?....ya....fuck F2P...

This is prob the best article iv ever read on this site....


Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/18/07
Posts: 138

8/21/13 1:56:23 PM#43
This is just the current model.  You launch with subscriptions.  Everything is great for a month, then the studio does massive downsizing to cut costs.  The game starts losing subs, then they go F2P to get a second "relaunch".


Joined: 7/26/03
Posts: 11792

8/21/13 2:03:53 PM#44

where new games have issues is being able to offer more than 1 month of content

it takes more than "endgame raiding" to keep most players satisfied beyond 30 days


 time well tell


Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/16/06
Posts: 895

8/21/13 2:10:13 PM#45
While I much, much prefer subscription models, I have lost all faith that they won't transition to F2P within a year. When that happens, the players who plopped down $60 for the game, plus another $100 or so for 6 months of sub, feel ripped off. I'm with a previous poster in wishing Wildstar would have no box fee or a very low box fee plus subscription. We have all been very burned recently, and are hesitant to trust that this time it will be any different.


Novice Member

Joined: 9/25/04
Posts: 387

8/21/13 2:26:28 PM#46
People don't appreciate what they don't pay for, that is evident in the community and exploiters rampant in the F2P titles. You want more F2P games, help the P2P camp not use "community" as a reason to exclude people. P2P players, yes, even WOW players have more to lose for behavioral bans than F2P players.

F2P players always seem to use it as an excuse for broken things in the game- "Well what do you want for free?" I want a game that effing works...

The OP is exactly right- you do get what you pay for. Even if these games go F2P in a couple years, until then I have faith that devs will be actively employed and working on the game and the community will be far less hostile and more loyal to a game they're paying for. I'd be willing to pay more per month to keep it P2P.

No bitchers.


Novice Member

Joined: 12/29/03
Posts: 1049

8/21/13 2:33:16 PM#47

Just hate to see a company set themselves up for failure. At this stage in the MMORPG game you have to get it right the first time. There are too many mmorpgs out here that have failed at subscription and then went f2p. Obviously this is the path Wildstar is going on, and I can bet this part played in their decision. What they aren't seeing is that a year from now it will be a differnet ballgame. The games that are f2p (with established IPs and reputations) will dominate too much of the market for Wildstar to attempt to take these folk away. 

Unless you're an established IP (Elder Scroll, Final FAntasy, Warcraft, Eve) Subscriptions are a death sentence for your game . And I don't see the switch to F2P being the life preserver that Wildstar thinks will be there a year from now. 


Novice Member

Joined: 9/14/10
Posts: 3813

Facts do not require fiction for balance.

8/21/13 2:37:02 PM#48

Any game these days with the audacity to demand a sub fee to play the game better at least match the content output ArenaNet is providing through Guild Wars 2 at no additional cost. There are no excuses. You can be successful and make a ton of money with a B2P model and a non-intrusive cash shop while providing content additions every two weeks... this has been proven now.


The bar has been raised from the archaic P2P model and wait until expansions for new content paradigm.

Oderint, dum metuant.


Novice Member

Joined: 8/21/13
Posts: 5

8/21/13 2:37:08 PM#49
F2P really goes against what the MMORPG genre is about. And in a way, it's like the old style arcade machines. That business model died out years ago.

"Welcome to level 34! Please insert 50 cents to continue."

GW2 is what it is and offers a great experience without a subscription. However, their world is not open and the zones have population limits. Their content updates, while fast, are small. Without a stable income, they can't risk big updates. It's like living paycheck to paycheck.

Subscription games give developers the money to go crazy and make awesome content. If they don't, you just unsubscribe until they do.

Sub games also give the whole game to the player with out pay gates or inconveniences. Go wherever, do whatever, get anything... It's all open.

I for one enjoy millions of dollars of content for $15 a month.


Novice Member

Joined: 11/23/10
Posts: 363

8/21/13 2:42:12 PM#50

P2Play does not cause the game to fail.  Bad gameplay causes the game to fail.  One of the most successful games of all time was pay to play.  If you make a good game people will pay for it. 


Other games have failed not because of payment model but lack of features and things to do.


Swtor-- great game during the leveling process but once you hit the level cap and did your story, there was nothing really to do except run one or two bugged raids or go pvp in a bugged pvp zone.  No other character progression other than raids.


TSW-- another game that thought outside the box and made a great game experience, but once you finished the zones what was left.  Same old dungeon grind (lengthy grind btw) for gear.  Had other character progression but was just sideways progression as your character could not use the new abilities you unlocked and didn't get more powerful but was able to just do different stuff.  The only power enhancement came from gear.  Too lengthy of a grind for signets and other stuff and lack of new content in a timely manner hurt the game.  Just recently went back after nearly a year and was doing the same stuff I was doing when I left the game, nothing was added to the endgame.


All the other games had some of these same problems, only type of end game progression which gets boring.  Wow is the only anomaly that has offered just one type of endgame but they made that game more of a social experience so it worked.  There has been no innovation in end game design since wow, wildstar appears to be trying to change this so they just might succeed.


Novice Member

Joined: 9/14/10
Posts: 3813

Facts do not require fiction for balance.

8/21/13 2:44:36 PM#51
Originally posted by LookingGlass

GW2 is what it is and offers a great experience without a subscription. However, their world is not open and the zones have population limits. Their content updates, while fast, are small. Without a stable income, they can't risk big updates. It's like living paycheck to paycheck.



That's not entirely accurate. The teams building the "big" content are completely different teams than those four teams that provide the monthly content (in two week increments). They raked in 25 million or so last quarter... hardly paycheck to paycheck.

Oderint, dum metuant.


Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/14/06
Posts: 191

8/21/13 2:46:28 PM#52

I dont know what is the big deal if a game goes B2P at launch.

Buy the game get the month out of it . And if you think its great sub for another $15. If not dont sub. only cost you the amount you pay for the game.

If you dont want to buy try to get into open beta or something.

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Novice Member

Joined: 1/22/07
Posts: 1717

8/21/13 2:54:08 PM#53
Originally posted by gr0und3d
Originally posted by Vinterkrig

In the form of :::::DRUM ROLL::::::: EXPANSION PACKS! For a one time low price of $29.99 


I dont see your point.  $29.99 every year/2yr is really not expensive......


My point is that he said subscription based games get updated content, and it's BS.. most of the time they get balance patches and a little bit of fluff, but you really don't much content added unless its in the form of a $30.00 expansion. I'm not broke, I can afford the box fee (that is actually a digital download go figure)  and subscription x 2 for my wife and I.. and the expansion packs.. but you know why these subscription based games keep going F2P... because they aren't putting that $$$ flow into the game, they're recouping their losses and handing us fluff crap.

Hell even GUILD WARS 2 has failed by far to hold anything true to its name... it's a PVE game / weapon skin collection simulator (akin TF2's hat collection simulator) .. the WvW and sPVP are an afterthought to useless fluff PVE content. There are server zergs and bored arena players... but at least if I wanna jump in for a bit and play, I don't have to pay them for fluff content that doesn't interest me.


Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/09/04
Posts: 135

8/21/13 3:06:12 PM#54

The biggest problem with the subscription model these days is several factors:

1.  Most new MMO's are crap.  At least with a no box fee and cash shop you spend what you believe the game is worth.  Whether that is nothing or $15 per month (most F2P has subscription options still).

2.  There are NUMEROUS MMO's to choose from that are free.  If I had to choose between a free game that is entertaining and one that cost $60 plus $15 a month I am going the free route every time UNLESS the game in question is something of the next evolution of MMO's which 99% are not.

Quote me now.. WildStar will offer a F2P option within a year.  For that matter ESO will be F2P within a year.  Why?  Again, because there are so many other F2P options and MMO's coming out there is no brand loyalty anymore unless you are WoW and even they are dwindling rapidly.

Let me state this to.  I am not a F2P fan.  I think the type of community it draws is not as.. mature or committed as a subscription based game.  BUT I've been burned too many times to trust game companies these days that are out for the almighty dollar instead of delivering a good and stable product.  So I will only try MMO's if they have some sort of free trial or are F2P.  Again, unless they are something evolutionary which WildStar and ESO are simply not.



Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/18/11
Posts: 1164

8/21/13 3:16:56 PM#55

I don't care how many subs WoW is bleeding, still over 8 million, at 15 a month, yup HOLY crap tons and tons of cash.


Maybe WS will be the WoW killer and get those. Who knows? Who Cares?


Nice read on giving a game a chance based on the game itself and not its business model.


Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/28/12
Posts: 235

8/21/13 3:30:08 PM#56
I'm all for subscription, but the box price plus the subscription makes no sense. It's a ton to get into a game and then I have to keep paying to keep playing? I'm fine with putting down let's say 20-30 euros and pay 6-10 euros as a subscription, but the regular prices of a box for 40-60 euros and a subscription at 15 is just too much for the amount I get to play (and want to pay). Just my thoughts... :)

"We need men who can dream of things that never were." - John F. Kennedy
And for MMORPGs ever so true...


Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/25/10
Posts: 1189

8/21/13 3:35:25 PM#57

The only thing I've yet to understand is how much ones wallet may influence the economy. As from what I understand there is a two way currency exchange. Know what I always love in my escape from the reality of a market society, playing a market society simulator.


I really hope Wildstar has something incredibly interesting going for it, because if it doesn't it'll more than likely follow every other uninteresting stale money grab game that has been regurgitated by this industry.


Advanced Member

Joined: 8/25/06
Posts: 1253

8/21/13 3:39:22 PM#58

um im sorry Mr.Lashley,

- but i like to know  where my good hard earn money goes.


with F2p( cash shops, etc) i get to spend my money 'where i want it and how i want it' i customize my game time, i like to spend my money and see results instantly. as a casual player i divide my time in multiple games- back in the day when there were only 2 mmos= it might of been ok- but nowadays the choices are limitless that just dosent work anymore...

i wont pay a subscription fee, and wait months to see what develops for the game-those are called expansion packs.


Subscriptions maybe alright by you- but iam ok with my F2p games!



Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/07/06
Posts: 6168

The adult I am takes care of most things real life. However my inner-child is a GAMER!!

8/21/13 3:51:33 PM#59
"Bill asked Jeremy Gaffney if they planned on paying attention to the success of FFXIV:ARR and their subscription model, this is what Jeremy had to say:


“We’re not watching the competition at all, really…. Because a business model does have an impact, but in general good games do well. And we know what we have is good and worth that value. But more importantly the elder game needs to be there, all the content needs to be there, the features list needs to be full. If we have those things, and we do, we’ll be fine.”

Sorry but I just don't believe they are not watching the competition. That would be very bad business practice. Perhaps Jeremy Gaffney does not do this personaly but I am 100% sure someone or some people in the company do look for what the competition is doing. How else could they make a decision and know their game is good enough to be sub-based. You need reference to make such a asumtion...right?

Besides that, I am still looking forward to Wildstar even more so due to it's sub-fee.

But it will be a pretty big gamble they are going to take with their sub-fee cause let's face it F2P games are not anymore what they used to be and are becoming better and better especially for F2P games. I'ts no longer low quality games that are F2P, better and higher quality games are going there too. Take Right, take Neverwinter, DCUO as a few example, and it doesn't matter if people like or dislike those games there is simply no denying they are of higher quality compared to F2P games of before them.


Novice Member

Joined: 7/09/04
Posts: 402

8/21/13 4:05:57 PM#60
Excellent article. Not sure I'd use the term 'microtransaction-based game' though, at least not when describing the purchase of items from Neverwinter's zen store.  F2P is a grubby business and in my opinion and experience, the business model taints the game to the point where the developers become the enemy and the only pleasure one can derive comes from the challenge of 'beating' the game without paying anything. 
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