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News & Features Discussion  » Elder Scrolls Online: Subscription Model Announced

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246 posts found
  FlawSGI

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/14/10
Posts: 1405

All of history is a lie. The truth depends on who does the listening, and who does the telling...

8/21/13 11:10:53 AM#141
Originally posted by Fly666monkey
A now to circle overhead like a vulture... in time, TESO, in time...

 This actually made me laugh..   Well played sir.

 

I actually give them props for choosing 12.99 rather than the standard BS number that's been attached to subs for how many years now?  

RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.

  captainpost

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/31/11
Posts: 1

8/21/13 11:14:14 AM#142
I'll wait till it goes F2P. After Guild Wars 2 being pay once play forever and Rift going F2P. There is no reason for another 15 dollars a month MMO. The market has changed. 
  someforumguy

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/25/07
Posts: 3481

8/21/13 11:14:31 AM#143
Originally posted by NBlitz
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Gorwe
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Gorwe
The idea of paying for something that is ABSOLUTELY unnecessary(the sub) just abhors me. As was visible by games such as GW1, GW 2, LoL, DoTA 2, SMITE, TSW(you choose the game),... it is CLEARLY visible that there is NO need for subscriptions.

You have no idea as to what is necessary or not.

GW1 was b2p and slowly added a cash shop. GW 2 launched with a cash shop.

I haven't played the others but do they have cash shops? can you buy things and spend money other than the purchase of the game.?

 

As I said in another thread, these games need "x" amount of dollars to stay afloat. Period. Developers moved to f2p because, though it does lower the barrier to entry and keep a healthy (hopefully) churn going, it uncaps the amounts that players can spend and a certain demographic will spend quite a lot.

But with that model, they don't know how much money they will rake in from month to month and they need to constantly monetize new aspcects of their game to keep money flowing.

The amount of money that it takes to run these things (and I'm not talking about internet use) is still the same. All developres/producers have done is try to figure out a way to get more of it. If you aren't paying then I can assure you someone else is paying for you.

Regardless if this bothers you or not the bill is being paid. And once they have sold as much as they can they will come up with new ways to make ends meet.

Game costs for development and keeping the company afloat haven't magically gone away.

Yes, they have costume or such cash shops. Similar to GW 1. But it DOES NOT bother me! It's not like the dreaded pay2win(which is a nonsense outside of TRUE f2ps-as long as it is obtainable within the game, it is not pay2win).

And yes. It is 110% unnecessary. I can't see how have we returned from the Modern ages(B2P, Freemium) to the Middle ages(P2P). Is just...wrong. Heh it reminds me of Egypt and how they are regressing back what with salafists and all.

(I blame the CIA! They are ALWAYS guilty xD )

I'm not talking about pay to win. I'm talking about "games need x amount of dollars to stay afloat.

You are essentially making a statement saying that games only need to charge for initial cost of the game and if they have a cosmetic shop then that's fine "no biggie".

I'm saying that games need x amount of dollars and game companies need to make that money. If they charge a monthly fee they make x amount of dollars. If they get rid of that monthly fee they still need those dollars so they hope that they can make enough oncosmetics.

And they constantly have to offer new cosmetics, I see a banker's gollum there and I wonder what else? Doesn't matter, they still need the money. "X" amount of dollars always needs to be made. And if they don't get it one way they get it another. So "no" you don't know what is needed to keep these games afloat. All you see is that "now" they get their money from others willing to pay it and it doesn't affect you as it once did.

But yet you have no idea the costs these business still have to incur.

Exactly what I was getting at earlier.

Let's not forget that games are becoming more expensive to develop. On WoW it used to take them a week to create a new monster. Nowadays it can take anywhere from 4 to 6 weeks to complete. Add in several more weeks just to complete a boss creature.

Larger feature sets. Graphics. Having to hit the ground running vs other titles already launched and beefed up with content.

These developers are not running a charitable organization.

The investors are not fooling around.

I like it when someone comes up with cool hard and really not made up facts!

  TookyG

Warhammer Online Correspondent

Joined: 4/19/04
Posts: 1192

"...you mean three philippino women."

8/21/13 11:21:54 AM#144
I have no interest in TESO but I'm thrilled they're going P2P.  Same with FFXIV and Wildstar.  Down with F2P!  That fact that EQ Next will be F2P is so disappointing.

Until you cancel your subscription, you are only helping to continue the cycle of mediocrity.

  Husvik

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/21/05
Posts: 404

Having fun who cares.

8/21/13 11:23:33 AM#145

Bookmark my words.


They will launch suck up box sales on the shiny new factor, ride monthly subs until the novelty wears off, and once subs plummet, they will go F2P and then nickel dime you to death.

It’s the “real” new pricing model. Watch and learn.

You heard it here first, I’m so sure of this i would bet on it.

  TookyG

Warhammer Online Correspondent

Joined: 4/19/04
Posts: 1192

"...you mean three philippino women."

8/21/13 11:27:04 AM#146
Originally posted by r3t3

Bookmark my words.


They will launch suck up box sales on the shiny new factor, ride monthly subs until the novelty wears off, and once subs plummet, they will go F2P and then nickel dime you to death.

It’s the “real” new pricing model. Watch and learn.

You heard it here first, I’m so sure of this i would bet on it.

 

Of course they will.  TESO won't have the draw to stay P2P.  Just the fact that they're launching with P2P, however, pleases me.

Until you cancel your subscription, you are only helping to continue the cycle of mediocrity.

  swedago

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/28/07
Posts: 67

8/21/13 11:27:37 AM#147
I am glad they are going P2P...  Keeps the riff raff out =P
  achesoma

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/05/05
Posts: 959

8/21/13 11:30:44 AM#148
Originally posted by bdew

So FFXIV, Wildstar and now TESO are all sub based, I can't be happier.

So tired of all thos bullshit nickle-and-dime P2W cash shop crap.

I have to agree. The phrase "free to play" is the biggest misnomer  in this genre. I also believe a lot of these F2P games will eventually crash and burn in the coming years. Reminds me of the old Dot Coms bubble burst in 2000. 

  Shanks123

Novice Member

Joined: 1/01/06
Posts: 108

I''m Here. I''m Awesome. Get Used To It.

8/21/13 11:31:10 AM#149
nothing worse then people who complain about 50 cents a day. get your ass off the internet and go to work/school if you cant afford that.

I'm Here. I'm Awesome. Get Used To It.

  Nadia

Elite Member

Joined: 7/26/03
Posts: 11416

8/21/13 11:31:38 AM#150
Originally posted by bloodaxes

I saw posts saying wildstar will fail for being P2P when there's ESO and EQN being f2p.

Now that ESO is P2P too their only hope for free is EQN.

Unless..... 

im betting EQN will have an optional sub

  Mardukk

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/05/11
Posts: 1385

8/21/13 11:33:38 AM#151

So is this game going to be $60 and sub?  I would possibly consider it at $30 and a sub after the first month (assuming the game isn't a linear quest hub themepark).

 

No way will I pay $60 and a sub for Wildstar or this game.  I'll give both games  6 - 12 months before Freemium kicks in and then I will give them a try.

  User Deleted
8/21/13 11:36:45 AM#152
Originally posted by someforumguy
Originally posted by NBlitz
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Gorwe
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Gorwe
The idea of paying for something that is ABSOLUTELY unnecessary(the sub) just abhors me. As was visible by games such as GW1, GW 2, LoL, DoTA 2, SMITE, TSW(you choose the game),... it is CLEARLY visible that there is NO need for subscriptions.

You have no idea as to what is necessary or not.

GW1 was b2p and slowly added a cash shop. GW 2 launched with a cash shop.

I haven't played the others but do they have cash shops? can you buy things and spend money other than the purchase of the game.?

 

As I said in another thread, these games need "x" amount of dollars to stay afloat. Period. Developers moved to f2p because, though it does lower the barrier to entry and keep a healthy (hopefully) churn going, it uncaps the amounts that players can spend and a certain demographic will spend quite a lot.

But with that model, they don't know how much money they will rake in from month to month and they need to constantly monetize new aspcects of their game to keep money flowing.

The amount of money that it takes to run these things (and I'm not talking about internet use) is still the same. All developres/producers have done is try to figure out a way to get more of it. If you aren't paying then I can assure you someone else is paying for you.

Regardless if this bothers you or not the bill is being paid. And once they have sold as much as they can they will come up with new ways to make ends meet.

Game costs for development and keeping the company afloat haven't magically gone away.

Yes, they have costume or such cash shops. Similar to GW 1. But it DOES NOT bother me! It's not like the dreaded pay2win(which is a nonsense outside of TRUE f2ps-as long as it is obtainable within the game, it is not pay2win).

And yes. It is 110% unnecessary. I can't see how have we returned from the Modern ages(B2P, Freemium) to the Middle ages(P2P). Is just...wrong. Heh it reminds me of Egypt and how they are regressing back what with salafists and all.

(I blame the CIA! They are ALWAYS guilty xD )

I'm not talking about pay to win. I'm talking about "games need x amount of dollars to stay afloat.

You are essentially making a statement saying that games only need to charge for initial cost of the game and if they have a cosmetic shop then that's fine "no biggie".

I'm saying that games need x amount of dollars and game companies need to make that money. If they charge a monthly fee they make x amount of dollars. If they get rid of that monthly fee they still need those dollars so they hope that they can make enough oncosmetics.

And they constantly have to offer new cosmetics, I see a banker's gollum there and I wonder what else? Doesn't matter, they still need the money. "X" amount of dollars always needs to be made. And if they don't get it one way they get it another. So "no" you don't know what is needed to keep these games afloat. All you see is that "now" they get their money from others willing to pay it and it doesn't affect you as it once did.

But yet you have no idea the costs these business still have to incur.

Exactly what I was getting at earlier.

Let's not forget that games are becoming more expensive to develop. On WoW it used to take them a week to create a new monster. Nowadays it can take anywhere from 4 to 6 weeks to complete. Add in several more weeks just to complete a boss creature.

Larger feature sets. Graphics. Having to hit the ground running vs other titles already launched and beefed up with content.

These developers are not running a charitable organization.

The investors are not fooling around.

I like it when someone comes up with cool hard and really not made up facts!

I got my "really not made up facts" from a column WoW's former Team lead, Mark Kern, wrote a while ago.

Mark Kern: MMO Development Needs Change

 

Edit: derp, grammar.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17114

8/21/13 11:41:13 AM#153
Originally posted by NBlitz
 

I got my "really not made up facts" from a column WoW's former Team lead, Mark Kern, wrote a while ago.

Mark Kern: MMO Development Needs Change

It seems somewhat similar to what Sony is doing with Everquest Next. IN that they have this round table site as well as incorporating player made items from that "Minecraftesque" product (can't remember the name.)

  nycdan

Novice Member

Joined: 8/08/05
Posts: 9

8/21/13 11:41:20 AM#154
Originally posted by NL-Rikkert
And they just lost a large chunck of potential customers.. why would you pay monthly for a game when you have hundreds of alternatives. Was curious if they could bring the SP experience combined with friends and the best of MMOs, but I have lost all my interest now. Not everyone has money to spent these days. Sub will just not work for me atm.

 

I think another intepretation is they lost a large chunk of non-paying customers in exchange for a smaller number of paying customers.  While I completely understand the disappointment of many who are limited to F2P, it's not unreasonable for a company to pick the subscription model if their forecasts deem it more likely to generate higher revenue. 

I have dabbled in a number of F2P games, but the number I spend money on is much lower.  I'm actually more comfortable with the subscription model as I know that as long as I'm paying, I'm on equal footing with everyone else.   Going F2P at the start guarantees a much higher population but also a much higher number of bot accounts and all the trouble that brings. 

 

  Nadia

Elite Member

Joined: 7/26/03
Posts: 11416

8/21/13 11:42:19 AM#155
Originally posted by NBlitz

I got my "really not made up facts" from a column WoW's former Team lead, Mark Kern, wrote a while ago.

depends on the game and tech tools available

 

here's commentary to the contrary

http://eq2wire.com/2013/08/04/the-book-closes-on-another-soe-live/

Demoed at the Art & Animation panel, EQ2′s new Terrain Editor allowed the creation of a large island zone in 10 HOURS.

The zone was much more intricate and detailed, flora and landscape elements just looked so much better, and significantly improved pathing is built in as well. No more NPCs and characters flipping around at odd angles as non-flat surfaces are encountered.

It was truly amazing and I can’t say enough about it. In the past, the Design team has had to ask the Art team for new zones 6-9 months in advance. Now, we’ll see zones rapidly prototyped and iterated so much faster that who knows, there might even be some time to goose up some older zones which are interesting lorewise but visually dull (like Thundering Steppes).

  rojoArcueid

Elite Member

Joined: 8/13/09
Posts: 5397

"It is double pleasure to deceive the deceiver". - Niccolo Machiavelli

8/21/13 11:42:55 AM#156
Originally posted by achesoma
Originally posted by bdew

So FFXIV, Wildstar and now TESO are all sub based, I can't be happier.

So tired of all thos bullshit nickle-and-dime P2W cash shop crap.

I have to agree. The phrase "free to play" is the biggest misnomer  in this genre. I also believe a lot of these F2P games will eventually crash and burn in the coming years. Reminds me of the old Dot Coms bubble burst in 2000. 

probably the ones developed from the ground up as F2P which are made with even lower quality, those could crash and burn and i wouldnt mind. But the thing is. All these subscription games that keep crashing and burning, survive as a result of changing models. So, we have seen more sub based mmos crash and burn and be reborn as F2P or B2P with a sub option and at least prolonged their lifetime a bit more that they would with a sub only.

And subscription fanatics say that they were bad games and this and that, trying to justify why their favorite model keeps making mediocre games that crash and burn because even themselves (sub fans) refuse to pay for. WHich doesnt change the fact that subscription mmos are coming with F2P quality in the last few years and every single one of them has been proof of that.

My endgame begins with character creation and ends with a new mmorpg

  mikelafalce

Novice Member

Joined: 3/18/13
Posts: 13

8/21/13 11:44:00 AM#157
Why is $15/ month the magic go to subscription price? Even $10/month would rock the MMO market.
  someforumguy

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/25/07
Posts: 3481

8/21/13 11:44:36 AM#158
Originally posted by NBlitz
Originally posted by someforumguy
Originally posted by NBlitz
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Gorwe
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Gorwe
The idea of paying for something that is ABSOLUTELY unnecessary(the sub) just abhors me. As was visible by games such as GW1, GW 2, LoL, DoTA 2, SMITE, TSW(you choose the game),... it is CLEARLY visible that there is NO need for subscriptions.

You have no idea as to what is necessary or not.

GW1 was b2p and slowly added a cash shop. GW 2 launched with a cash shop.

I haven't played the others but do they have cash shops? can you buy things and spend money other than the purchase of the game.?

 

As I said in another thread, these games need "x" amount of dollars to stay afloat. Period. Developers moved to f2p because, though it does lower the barrier to entry and keep a healthy (hopefully) churn going, it uncaps the amounts that players can spend and a certain demographic will spend quite a lot.

But with that model, they don't know how much money they will rake in from month to month and they need to constantly monetize new aspcects of their game to keep money flowing.

The amount of money that it takes to run these things (and I'm not talking about internet use) is still the same. All developres/producers have done is try to figure out a way to get more of it. If you aren't paying then I can assure you someone else is paying for you.

Regardless if this bothers you or not the bill is being paid. And once they have sold as much as they can they will come up with new ways to make ends meet.

Game costs for development and keeping the company afloat haven't magically gone away.

Yes, they have costume or such cash shops. Similar to GW 1. But it DOES NOT bother me! It's not like the dreaded pay2win(which is a nonsense outside of TRUE f2ps-as long as it is obtainable within the game, it is not pay2win).

And yes. It is 110% unnecessary. I can't see how have we returned from the Modern ages(B2P, Freemium) to the Middle ages(P2P). Is just...wrong. Heh it reminds me of Egypt and how they are regressing back what with salafists and all.

(I blame the CIA! They are ALWAYS guilty xD )

I'm not talking about pay to win. I'm talking about "games need x amount of dollars to stay afloat.

You are essentially making a statement saying that games only need to charge for initial cost of the game and if they have a cosmetic shop then that's fine "no biggie".

I'm saying that games need x amount of dollars and game companies need to make that money. If they charge a monthly fee they make x amount of dollars. If they get rid of that monthly fee they still need those dollars so they hope that they can make enough oncosmetics.

And they constantly have to offer new cosmetics, I see a banker's gollum there and I wonder what else? Doesn't matter, they still need the money. "X" amount of dollars always needs to be made. And if they don't get it one way they get it another. So "no" you don't know what is needed to keep these games afloat. All you see is that "now" they get their money from others willing to pay it and it doesn't affect you as it once did.

But yet you have no idea the costs these business still have to incur.

Exactly what I was getting at earlier.

Let's not forget that games are becoming more expensive to develop. On WoW it used to take them a week to create a new monster. Nowadays it can take anywhere from 4 to 6 weeks to complete. Add in several more weeks just to complete a boss creature.

Larger feature sets. Graphics. Having to hit the ground running vs other titles already launched and beefed up with content.

These developers are not running a charitable organization.

The investors are not fooling around.

I like it when someone comes up with cool hard and really not made up facts!

I got my "really not made up facts" from a column WoW's former Team lead, Mark Kern, wrote a while ago.

Mark Kern: MMO Development Needs Change

 

Edit: derp, grammar.

I guess Arenenet is running a charitable organization then with their B2P payment model.

  Husvik

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/21/05
Posts: 404

Having fun who cares.

8/21/13 11:45:18 AM#159
Originally posted by TookyG
Originally posted by r3t3

Bookmark my words.


They will launch suck up box sales on the shiny new factor, ride monthly subs until the novelty wears off, and once subs plummet, they will go F2P and then nickel dime you to death.

It’s the “real” new pricing model. Watch and learn.

You heard it here first, I’m so sure of this i would bet on it.

 

Of course they will.  TESO won't have the draw to stay P2P.  Just the fact that they're launching with P2P, however, pleases me.

This p!sses me of though as everyone is investing into a future which does not exist for this game.


You blow 60+ on the entrance fee; then play for 2 to 3 months tops or until you realize it’s just another cookie cutter and or novelty wears off, and you’re out over a hundred bucks.

A few months later everyone gets the game FREE and cost to them is NOTHING to play whenever they want. Then the people whom actually thought they were investing into a P2P atmosphere are royally PO’d because “it’s not that game anymore."

***NEW FLASH! They could not give a rats behind about you anymore as they got what they wanted from you, box sale and a monthly cash drip while they work on the F2P model, plus you’re no longer the majority voice anymore, simply the few diehards who stuck around too long hoping F2P would never come, F2P players are now your rulers.
 

  IceAge

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/23/05
Posts: 996

8/21/13 11:46:12 AM#160
Originally posted by Wighty

Looks like 2013/2014 is going to be dark days for the leechers who feel it's their right and entitlement to not have to pay nor support the very entertainment they are so passionate about.

Right there, just right there. To the cave with them..

Also, to does with a crystal ball , I don't care if Wildstar, or FF XIV ( nor TESO ), will go F2P in 1-2 years. Because I'll have fun in this time, without leechers, cryers and alike. I had a blast in Aion for 2 years when it has P2P, and I am expecting the same for Wildstar or FF.

So then, you should wait ...wait as much as you want until they go F2P, while I will enjoy them from the very first release day.

Good luck.

Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy?
Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!

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