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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Your life changed, why should the genre?

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  IfrianMMO

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/21/12
Posts: 211

 
OP  8/20/13 8:18:44 PM#1

This question is directed to all those older players that support the "casualization" of the genre because their lives changed and they no longer have as much time to dedicate to games and mmorpgs in particular.

I know not all older players and casuals support mmoprgs becoming easier, this question however, is directed to the ones that do believe and support it.

So the question is as follows :

 

Why do you insist, agree and celebrate on the casualization of the genre simply because you cannot fulfill it´s demands anymore?

 

You admit that you used to love the older games, and that you had many good memories and good times as you spent a lot of time, effort and dedication on your nostalgic mmo of choice, so why should the newer generations and those that still have the time, renounce to their turn to enjoy the genre as it was, simply because you can´t do it anymore?

 

Why should an entire genre adapt to your new and busy life instead of you finding a genre or type of game that you can actually afford and enjoy?

 

And if you really MUST play mmorpgs, why not accept that you will no longer be the big cheese and pursue a more casual and humble approach instead of demanding for the games to transform themselves into something you can play?

 

And as a side question, why is it that many of you insist on that anyone with the time, will and dedication to play mmos as you used to, is a basement dwelling,  nolifer loser that is bad and should feel bad, and does not think of married players?

Were you thinking of your own generation of busy players when you played mmo´s "hardcore"?

 

 

 

  Drakephire

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/02/13
Posts: 354

8/20/13 8:29:39 PM#2

Money talks. Casual mmo players didn't form a gang and demand at gunpoint that all future MMOs be casual. You fundamentally misunderstand the laws of supply and demand if you think that.

 

There was demand for more casual MMOs which developers exploited to make more money.  Said developers can make more money because casual players require less resources to satisfy since they don't consume content at the same rate as hardcore players. This is on top of the market itself being at least an order of magnitude more populous (ie, millions of casual gamers compared to hundreds of thousands of hardcore).

 

 

  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 4451

It's a combination of Nightingale Armor with the Mod Truebound Deadric Armors

8/20/13 8:31:16 PM#3
Originally posted by IfrianMMO

This question is directed to all those older players that support the "casualization" of the genre because their lives changed and they no longer have as much time to dedicate to games and mmorpgs in particular.

I know not all older players and casuals support mmoprgs becoming easier, this question however, is directed to the ones that do believe and support it.

So the question is as follows :

 

Why do you insist, agree and celebrate on the casualization of the genre simply because you cannot fulfill it´s demands anymore?

 

You admit that you used to love the older games, and that you had many good memories and good times as you spent a lot of time, effort and dedication on your nostalgic mmo of choice, so why should the newer generations and those that still have the time, renounce to their turn to enjoy the genre as it was, simply because you can´t do it anymore?

 

Why should an entire genre adapt to your new and busy life instead of you finding a genre or type of game that you can actually afford and enjoy?

 

And if you really MUST play mmorpgs, why not accept that you will no longer be the big cheese and pursue a more casual and humble approach instead of demanding for the games to transform themselves into something you can play?

 

And as a side question, why is it that many of you insist on that anyone with the time, will and dedication to play mmos as you used to, is a basement dwelling,  nolifer loser that is bad and should feel bad, and does not think of married players?

Were you thinking of your own generation of busy players when you played mmo´s "hardcore"?

 

 

 

Because people grew up, got real jobs, make more money and the game publishers want it.

I feel that the state of the genre is such that a total and complete failure is needed so it can be reborn anew.
I'm actually hoping this new generation of 8 button MMOs will make that happen.

  twrule

Novice Member

Joined: 7/15/09
Posts: 1260

8/20/13 8:35:52 PM#4

I am apparently not precisely the audience you mean to address this to - I have a busy schedule and game casually, but I'm not going around disparaging anyone for playing more than me, nor do I seek to be the 'big cheese' of any game community, nor am I so nostalgic about the older games that I can't see their flaws now.

The simple causal answer is that no one 'demanded' it, at least not directly. The genre changed because the market changed, the market changed because consumer lifestyles changed - hence the genre changed because people's lifestyles changed.

But you asked why one might embrace this now. Why wouldn't they? I liked some things about some old-school games, but the fact that they necessitated larger per-session time investments was not necessarily among them. The sooner that myth is dispelled - the sooner we might find ourselves playing the same games, which are accessible to those with 'casual' play-time commitments.

  muchavez

Novice Member

Joined: 10/17/04
Posts: 208

8/20/13 8:42:54 PM#5
Originally posted by GeezerGamer
Originally posted by IfrianMMO

This question is directed to all those older players that support the "casualization" of the genre because their lives changed and they no longer have as much time to dedicate to games and mmorpgs in particular.

I know not all older players and casuals support mmoprgs becoming easier, this question however, is directed to the ones that do believe and support it.

So the question is as follows :

 

Why do you insist, agree and celebrate on the casualization of the genre simply because you cannot fulfill it´s demands anymore?

 

You admit that you used to love the older games, and that you had many good memories and good times as you spent a lot of time, effort and dedication on your nostalgic mmo of choice, so why should the newer generations and those that still have the time, renounce to their turn to enjoy the genre as it was, simply because you can´t do it anymore?

 

Why should an entire genre adapt to your new and busy life instead of you finding a genre or type of game that you can actually afford and enjoy?

 

And if you really MUST play mmorpgs, why not accept that you will no longer be the big cheese and pursue a more casual and humble approach instead of demanding for the games to transform themselves into something you can play?

 

And as a side question, why is it that many of you insist on that anyone with the time, will and dedication to play mmos as you used to, is a basement dwelling,  nolifer loser that is bad and should feel bad, and does not think of married players?

Were you thinking of your own generation of busy players when you played mmo´s "hardcore"?

 

 

 

Because people grew up, got real jobs, make more money and the game publishers want it.

Pretty much that.

OP,

Married people don't send encrypted emails to each other plotting the demise of hardcore gaming while supporting / lobbying for the 'casual game market'.  Its much more simple than that

I don't have time to do 20 daily quests every day and 6 hour long raids twice a week.  So I pick a game that I can play.  Developers notice this and develop more games catered to us because we have more money than you, and they can live better / make more money catering to us.

I have bad news for you.

Its only going to get worse.

Back in the 90s the majority of people playing online games were young kids.  Those kids grew up and gave their kids games, then those kids grew up and so on and so on.  Every year you have more and more adults with jobs playing MMOs.  Which means less 6 hour raids, and more insta join WvWvW type games.

  Drakephire

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/02/13
Posts: 354

8/20/13 8:56:12 PM#6
Originally posted by muchavez
 

Back in the 90s the majority of people playing online games were young kids.  Those kids grew up and gave their kids games, then those kids grew up and so on and so on.  Every year you have more and more adults with jobs playing MMOs.  Which means less 6 hour raids, and more insta join WvWvW type games.

 

Very true.  While the market grows by adding newer young players, the market is sustained by those younger players getting older and remaining gamers.

 

It's the same reason advertisers seek 18-30 something market. If they can hook a young person on their product, they have a better chance of retaining that person for life. That is how one continually grows a brand.

 

There is a market for the types of games the OP desires, but it's a smaller market, and thus will only attract smaller development companies with smaller budgets.

  User Deleted
8/20/13 9:05:47 PM#7
Isn't the fact that your able to stereotype so many people enough justification? If your a dev, do you want to make a game that potentially 5 people will play or 5 million? Since most peoples lives have changed and priority has shifted, yes the genre should evolve with them. If it doesn't its going to miss out on it's main body.
  xevanon

Novice Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 73

8/20/13 9:09:18 PM#8
Originally posted by GeezerGamer
Originally posted by IfrianMMO

This question is directed to all those older players that support the "casualization" of the genre because their lives changed and they no longer have as much time to dedicate to games and mmorpgs in particular.

I know not all older players and casuals support mmoprgs becoming easier, this question however, is directed to the ones that do believe and support it.

So the question is as follows :

 

Why do you insist, agree and celebrate on the casualization of the genre simply because you cannot fulfill it´s demands anymore?

 

You admit that you used to love the older games, and that you had many good memories and good times as you spent a lot of time, effort and dedication on your nostalgic mmo of choice, so why should the newer generations and those that still have the time, renounce to their turn to enjoy the genre as it was, simply because you can´t do it anymore?

 

Why should an entire genre adapt to your new and busy life instead of you finding a genre or type of game that you can actually afford and enjoy?

 

And if you really MUST play mmorpgs, why not accept that you will no longer be the big cheese and pursue a more casual and humble approach instead of demanding for the games to transform themselves into something you can play?

 

And as a side question, why is it that many of you insist on that anyone with the time, will and dedication to play mmos as you used to, is a basement dwelling,  nolifer loser that is bad and should feel bad, and does not think of married players?

Were you thinking of your own generation of busy players when you played mmo´s "hardcore"?

 

 

 

Because people grew up, got real jobs, make more money and the game publishers want it.

+2

Right on!

  Gormogon

Novice Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 155

8/20/13 10:07:16 PM#9
Because progress.
  Drakynn

Novice Member

Joined: 3/02/08
Posts: 2051

8/20/13 10:20:29 PM#10

I am a former "Hardcore" MMORPG player who grew up and doesn't have the time to be that anymore.

But I don't require that games become more casual for me.I'm happy to play them at my own  pace and with people who have similar time and agendas.

All i require is that the game keeps me entertained and busy,I no longer have to get server firsts or the best gear before everyone else or access to everything as soon as possible.

Unfortunately even going at my casual pace I run out of interesting things to do in MMORPG's these days and get bored.

So I don't understand why others in my situation like the state of MMOPRGs these days or feel entitled to have everything instantly  that people who  can dedicate lots of time to a game earn.

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 18805

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

8/20/13 10:38:35 PM#11
Originally posted by Drakephire
Originally posted by muchavez
 

Back in the 90s the majority of people playing online games were young kids.  Those kids grew up and gave their kids games, then those kids grew up and so on and so on.  Every year you have more and more adults with jobs playing MMOs.  Which means less 6 hour raids, and more insta join WvWvW type games.

 

Very true.  While the market grows by adding newer young players, the market is sustained by those younger players getting older and remaining gamers.

 

It's the same reason advertisers seek 18-30 something market. If they can hook a young person on their product, they have a better chance of retaining that person for life. That is how one continually grows a brand.

 

There is a market for the types of games the OP desires, but it's a smaller market, and thus will only attract smaller development companies with smaller budgets.

 

These posts make me wonder if you two were even there in the late 90s and early 2000s for the first MMOS. They were predominately played by working adults, primarily because they ran on expensive PC hardware that was more complicated to operate. Children were actually quite rare and those people raiding for 6 hours were in there 20s and 30s, usually pre-children actually. Wasn't until WOW came along and would run on lower end PCs that were more often than not their parents "old" hardware that we saw the entry of not only children, but the casual console players who also typically did not invest on high end gaming hardware. I was in my 40s when I started,always managed to fit gaming in my schedule, but its true, I didn't do high end, long hour raid content, but the games I favored (L1,L2, DAOC,Shadowbane etc) did not require it to have fun in the game. For some reason many of todays gamers feel they are entitled to experience all of the game content. They are not, wasn't true when I first started playing, isn't true today though game develops sure seem to bend over backwards to accommodate them. Can't even understand why as most of them show no loyalty and are gone in a short time complaining about a lack of content, but hey they got exactly what they asked for, not sure why they complain.

"In these forums 'honest' seems to be a symonym for 'hates the game just like I do'" - ohioastro
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  DrCokePepsi

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/18/12
Posts: 163

What I have shown you is reality. What you remember, that is the illusion.
~Sephiroth FFVII

8/20/13 11:29:38 PM#12


Originally posted by IfrianMMO
This question is directed to all those older players that support the "casualization" of the genre because their lives changed and they no longer have as much time to dedicate to games and mmorpgs in particular.

I know not all older players and casuals support mmoprgs becoming easier, this question however, is directed to the ones that do believe and support it.

So the question is as follows :

 

Why do you insist, agree and celebrate on the casualization of the genre simply because you cannot fulfill it´s demands anymore?

 

You admit that you used to love the older games, and that you had many good memories and good times as you spent a lot of time, effort and dedication on your nostalgic mmo of choice, so why should the newer generations and those that still have the time, renounce to their turn to enjoy the genre as it was, simply because you can´t do it anymore?

 

Why should an entire genre adapt to your new and busy life instead of you finding a genre or type of game that you can actually afford and enjoy?

 

And if you really MUST play mmorpgs, why not accept that you will no longer be the big cheese and pursue a more casual and humble approach instead of demanding for the games to transform themselves into something you can play?

 

And as a side question, why is it that many of you insist on that anyone with the time, will and dedication to play mmos as you used to, is a basement dwelling,  nolifer loser that is bad and should feel bad, and does not think of married players?

Were you thinking of your own generation of busy players when you played mmo´s "hardcore"?

 

 

 



Well, i totally agree with you, over time this is unfortunately how the community eventually molded the genre and it's a shame. I totally agree :/

  Ginaz

Elite Member

Joined: 4/01/07
Posts: 1690

8/20/13 11:37:17 PM#13
Because catering your game to people who have the time to play 8 hours+ a day is dumb.  If it requires playing that much to "get to the top" then your game is bad.

Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?

Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.

  NaughtyP

Novice Member

Joined: 12/02/11
Posts: 795

8/20/13 11:37:46 PM#14
I would say most older players I've met don't want casual games, they want thought-provoking ones. So I have no idea who you are talking to... sorry?

Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure.

  Mtibbs1989

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 2501

8/20/13 11:40:01 PM#15
Originally posted by Drakephire

Money talks. Casual mmo players didn't form a gang and demand at gunpoint that all future MMOs be casual. You fundamentally misunderstand the laws of supply and demand if you think that.

 

There was demand for more casual MMOs which developers exploited to make more money.  Said developers can make more money because casual players require less resources to satisfy since they don't consume content at the same rate as hardcore players. This is on top of the market itself being at least an order of magnitude more populous (ie, millions of casual gamers compared to hundreds of thousands of hardcore).

 

 

 If they don't consume more content than "hardcore" customers then why have all of the new MMOs that have recently released become ghost towns after the release of the games? Essentially forcing the companies to turn them into F2P models.


Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 4451

It's a combination of Nightingale Armor with the Mod Truebound Deadric Armors

8/21/13 12:16:53 AM#16
Originally posted by Kyleran
Originally posted by Drakephire
Originally posted by muchavez
 

Back in the 90s the majority of people playing online games were young kids.  Those kids grew up and gave their kids games, then those kids grew up and so on and so on.  Every year you have more and more adults with jobs playing MMOs.  Which means less 6 hour raids, and more insta join WvWvW type games.

 

Very true.  While the market grows by adding newer young players, the market is sustained by those younger players getting older and remaining gamers.

 

It's the same reason advertisers seek 18-30 something market. If they can hook a young person on their product, they have a better chance of retaining that person for life. That is how one continually grows a brand.

 

There is a market for the types of games the OP desires, but it's a smaller market, and thus will only attract smaller development companies with smaller budgets.

 

These posts make me wonder if you two were even there in the late 90s and early 2000s for the first MMOS. They were predominately played by working adults, primarily because they ran on expensive PC hardware that was more complicated to operate. Children were actually quite rare and those people raiding for 6 hours were in there 20s and 30s, usually pre-children actually. Wasn't until WOW came along and would run on lower end PCs that were more often than not their parents "old" hardware that we saw the entry of not only children, but the casual console players who also typically did not invest on high end gaming hardware. I was in my 40s when I started,always managed to fit gaming in my schedule, but its true, I didn't do high end, long hour raid content, but the games I favored (L1,L2, DAOC,Shadowbane etc) did not require it to have fun in the game. For some reason many of todays gamers feel they are entitled to experience all of the game content. They are not, wasn't true when I first started playing, isn't true today though game develops sure seem to bend over backwards to accommodate them. Can't even understand why as most of them show no loyalty and are gone in a short time complaining about a lack of content, but hey they got exactly what they asked for, not sure why they complain.

For me the pendulum swung the other way. Back in the early days of MMOs my kids were really little and OMG the WAGRO i'd pull when I tried to play my games. HAHA. Now they are in high school. I have a lot more time. (And money)

I feel that the state of the genre is such that a total and complete failure is needed so it can be reborn anew.
I'm actually hoping this new generation of 8 button MMOs will make that happen.

  Miblet

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/19/10
Posts: 329

8/21/13 12:17:07 AM#17
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
Originally posted by Drakephire

Money talks. Casual mmo players didn't form a gang and demand at gunpoint that all future MMOs be casual. You fundamentally misunderstand the laws of supply and demand if you think that.

 

There was demand for more casual MMOs which developers exploited to make more money.  Said developers can make more money because casual players require less resources to satisfy since they don't consume content at the same rate as hardcore players. This is on top of the market itself being at least an order of magnitude more populous (ie, millions of casual gamers compared to hundreds of thousands of hardcore).

 

 

 If they don't consume more content than "hardcore" customers then why have all of the new MMOs that have recently released become ghost towns after the release of the games? Essentially forcing the companies to turn them into F2P models.

Could be many reasons...

-Budgets of games have become insanely inflated and thus require more people than ever before to even break even.  EQ had fewer players than SWToR, yet also needed far fewer players to survive and flourish.

-Perception of success has changed.  People used to see 200k players as a successful MMO, now MMOs can have a million and be seen as a failure because people (and the companies producing the titles) deep down expect WoW level numbers and nobody wants to play a 'failing' game in much the same way that there are people whose taste in music is determined by the top 10 charts.

-New games just aren't always that good.

 

There are lots more too.  It isn't a simple issue, moreso when tastes are so varied.

It also doesn't help that people can't really agree on what is hardcore and casual.

  VengeSunsoar

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4717

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

8/21/13 12:57:53 AM#18
It doesn't have to change unless it wants to keep those players and players like them. Which they do.

And casual doesn't mean easier.

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  VengeSunsoar

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4717

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

8/21/13 1:01:35 AM#19
They haven't become ghost towns. They don't have as many as on release, but keeping that many is not realistic. They di have the same ir higher populations as old games. Were they ghost towns?

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  VengeSunsoar

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4717

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

8/21/13 1:01:35 AM#20
They haven't become ghost towns. They don't have as many as on release, but keeping that many is not realistic. They di have the same ir higher populations as old games. Were they ghost towns?

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

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