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News & Features Discussion  » [Column] General: Blaming “The Kids” Is So Immature

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91 posts found
  Alexvano

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/15/06
Posts: 14

8/20/13 12:09:15 PM#61
Its not kids that are the problem, its the lazy casual gamer that games are being geared towards. They can't be bothered to pay for it and they want to feel as empowered as someone who works hard at learning a game, while they put in zero effort. They died or lost? Definitely not their fault, the game is just bad.

The problem all started with laziness of the gaming public. People say they don't want a game that is a second job, then go on to spend thousands of hours on no risk, hand you everything on a silver platter crap. If players have to learn a deep complex game that ultimately is limitless in what you can accomplish, many new gamers can't be bothered and boot up WoW. Games that take time to learn and have complexity don't get the dumb downed masses who don't want to be challenged and can't pay a subscription. They want something they can play with less than 10 buttons and pats them on the head for showing up. The sand boxes of Ultima Online and Eve were amazing because of everything you could do in them. Now adays people cry for more content because the simplistic junk in these games have no depth, require no skill or learning, and if it can't be completed with a guide easily in 30 minutes to an hour, don't worry one is coming! Sandboxes are great because you can have amazing challenges like dragons that seem more alive because they will roast your nuts if you in your noobishness walk up to one. Can they be killed? Sure, but in the sand box world you may have to hone your skills, come up with a plan, or heavens forbid socialize. Will it happen on day one, nope. Its laziness that ruined the genre, the dumbing down for the masses. You want quality games that last, make risk, reward, and effort match up, and put more options in, not take them out because the lazy herd doesn't understand right away.

Take the same dragon, in guild wars 2 they followed the guide and the zerg of noobs won out and the dragon died and no one faced any risk of failure yay! I mean its in the script that the dragon should die right? Well in a sandbox odds are you may lose, you may win. Is there a better way to try and conquer it? Probably but why try, its too hard, its just bad game mechanics, its not their fault. The problem with the genre isn't the kids, that's stereo typing based on age. Kids can be very smart. Its the lazy gamer that is to blame.
  rojoArcueid

Elite Member

Joined: 8/13/09
Posts: 5191

"It is double pleasure to deceive the deceiver". - Niccolo Machiavelli

8/20/13 12:59:17 PM#62
Originally posted by JRRNeiklot
I might have read this....had it not been written by a kid.

nice defensive answer. But its obvious you already read it. Also, Being older than others doesnt automatically make the rest "kids". Typical answer from old folks. Look at the definition of Kid first so you have a better answer next time that actually fits your age, sir.

My endgame begins with character creation and ends with a new mmorpg

  Eir_S

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/07/11
Posts: 4697

GW2 socialist.

8/20/13 2:44:29 PM#63
Originally posted by krondin
Until there is true accountability for players of these games, fingers will point, names will be called, and many will be referred  to as " Child like mentality ".

They're games.  I think they're all pretty child like in mentality.  Once again, the most popular games in history have usually had wide-spread appeal, they weren't usually "serious".  This seems to go double for MMOs.

  Eir_S

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/07/11
Posts: 4697

GW2 socialist.

8/20/13 2:49:42 PM#64
Originally posted by OniDaimyo77
Meh disagree. A lof ot fhe "kids" or 20 somethings are ruder and more immature than the older players I've encountered and the annonymity of the internet just makes it worse. It is indeed their fault much of the time.
 

Well unfortunately my experience has been almost the exact opposite.  Playing WoW for almost half a decade, the worst behavior I encountered was from adults almost without fail, and I knew they were adults because of vent, etc.  To me, it makes it even worse because they're the ones who seem to have it out for "kids" even though they act like kids SHOULD act.

It reminds me of the Wildstar sub threads, where the same people who are saying it will keep brats out are often saying something like "Nah nah F2P'ers suck it, LOL" (pp) in the same breath.  Does anyone want to play with a jerk, regardless of their age?  I don't.
  TsaboHavoc

Novice Member

Joined: 11/01/11
Posts: 340

8/20/13 3:03:15 PM#65
a little damage control for disneyquest huh..?
  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 11927

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, Wildstar, and Combat Arms

8/20/13 3:07:25 PM#66
Originally posted by Alexvano
Its not kids that are the problem, its the lazy casual gamer that games are being geared towards. They can't be bothered to pay for it and they want to feel as empowered as someone who works hard at learning a game, while they put in zero effort. They died or lost? Definitely not their fault, the game is just bad.

The problem all started with laziness of the gaming public. People say they don't want a game that is a second job, then go on to spend thousands of hours on no risk, hand you everything on a silver platter crap. If players have to learn a deep complex game that ultimately is limitless in what you can accomplish, many new gamers can't be bothered and boot up WoW. Games that take time to learn and have complexity don't get the dumb downed masses who don't want to be challenged and can't pay a subscription. They want something they can play with less than 10 buttons and pats them on the head for showing up. The sand boxes of Ultima Online and Eve were amazing because of everything you could do in them. Now adays people cry for more content because the simplistic junk in these games have no depth, require no skill or learning, and if it can't be completed with a guide easily in 30 minutes to an hour, don't worry one is coming! Sandboxes are great because you can have amazing challenges like dragons that seem more alive because they will roast your nuts if you in your noobishness walk up to one. Can they be killed? Sure, but in the sand box world you may have to hone your skills, come up with a plan, or heavens forbid socialize. Will it happen on day one, nope. Its laziness that ruined the genre, the dumbing down for the masses. You want quality games that last, make risk, reward, and effort match up, and put more options in, not take them out because the lazy herd doesn't understand right away.

Take the same dragon, in guild wars 2 they followed the guide and the zerg of noobs won out and the dragon died and no one faced any risk of failure yay! I mean its in the script that the dragon should die right? Well in a sandbox odds are you may lose, you may win. Is there a better way to try and conquer it? Probably but why try, its too hard, its just bad game mechanics, its not their fault. The problem with the genre isn't the kids, that's stereo typing based on age. Kids can be very smart. Its the lazy gamer that is to blame.

Damn those people who only play games to be entertained and aren't doing so to prove their self-worth.

  Vinterkrig

Novice Member

Joined: 1/22/07
Posts: 1706

8/20/13 3:19:10 PM#67
I blame the kids.... and the women, oh and the carebears...crap, lets not forget the companies.
  User Deleted
8/20/13 3:29:36 PM#68


Originally posted by Loktofeit
Christina, please rewrite that with some ad hominems and wild exaggerations. I've read through it three times, still haven't found anything to argue with, and it's really pissing me off. ><

Don't worry, I'll pick it up from here...


So where the writer fails to account for is that without being able to put down and trash games, the average neighborhood elitist won't have an outlet to feel elite. Without the insistent picking on the most "mainstream" of MMO's, there's absolutely no way for them to separate themselves from the rare mediocre gamer found amongst our communities.

Despite the lack of credibility behind their arguments, I firmly believe every person has the right to feel elitist by bringing the things that others enjoy down. If the average elitist cannot bring down others to boost their own self-esteem/ego/"sense of credibility", then how else can they feel "elitist"?

  Alexvano

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/15/06
Posts: 14

8/20/13 4:30:04 PM#69
Nice trolling the, this isn't about "self-worth" or "elitism," its about taking what was once a deep, fun, and engaging medium, and ruining it.

MMORPG's went from amazing works of art that had countless hours of engaging entertainment, skill, thought, and fun, and turned it into elmo's paint by numbers for the masses.

Why are people leaving WoW and each new MMORPG that comes out after a few months of play? Its the same trite crap, that lacks any depth. Once you finished the theme park ride, rode the roller-coaster more than a few times, painted the entire paint by numbers picture they are bored, and demand new content. This keeps them entertained. If it doesn't give them the most "elite" skills, loot, or cookie cutter skills, they never play the old content unless they absolutely have to. Why? Because its nothing more than casual fun with limited depth.

Kids aren't to blame, lazy gamers are.
  Dreamo84

Defender of Worlds

Joined: 5/20/04
Posts: 2809

I actually still like MMORPGs

8/20/13 4:30:26 PM#70
I had more patience and willingness to learn complicated video game systems when I was a kid. Believe it or not kids have no problem learning things. I have five year old cousins that know more about minecraft than I do. They play it more and they are quick to discover things and its more exciting for them.

  Tarnorili

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/07/13
Posts: 36

8/20/13 6:13:14 PM#71

Basically what you're talking about is stereotyping. In any context using such a broad-brush approach is largely damaging as well as highly inaccurate. That's not to say certain facets of the community aren't to blame, they're just not the only source of a problem.

 

In truth significant criticism should be placed in the lap of development companies. It is those that over the last 5-10 years seemingly have tried to 'cash-in' on the mmo market, and turn it from a niche gaming experience into a mainstream one. And quite frankly, there's a lot of evidence out there to support the argument that the majority of these companies don't know what they're doing.  It's a difficult thing to create a true MMO (as opposed to a static-world single-player online game that has some group-content). In their rush to tap into this community they've simply just not taken the necessary time to understand how the medium works. And the results speak for themselves.

  Elija7

Novice Member

Joined: 8/19/13
Posts: 7

8/20/13 7:08:49 PM#72
Nice, plain article discussing a problem one group of gamers (who would call themselves mature and intelligent-and they well might be) has. However, their specific problem is generalized when it seems they're targeting all MMO's that either already exist or are coming out. Like Christina said, there are enough choices out there for everyone to find what they're looking for. We also need to realize though that none of us are going to find that "perfect MMO" that has everything we want. There are developers who are both making games for wide audiences and smaller, target audiences alike. Keep your eyes open, find what you like, and stop complaining about what you don't. If you don't like it, don't play it. 
  Alexvano

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/15/06
Posts: 14

8/20/13 8:25:33 PM#73
Regrettably the sad truth is that many gamers don't have the game they want. The Themepark crowd has plenty of triple A titles available, all looking to cash in on WoW's right time, right now place, success, while Sandbox players have maybe 1 or 2 choices that are typically either indie developments,single A efforts at best, or EVE (and not everyone likes space simulators or prefer a fantasy setting). That is why this comes up frequently, but thankfully with the constant failure of themepark games, sandbox games may be coming into a Renaissance.
  User Deleted
8/21/13 12:03:09 AM#74


Originally posted by Alexvano
Nice trolling the, this isn't about "self-worth" or "elitism," its about taking what was once a deep, fun, and engaging medium, and ruining it.MMORPG's went from amazing works of art that had countless hours of engaging entertainment, skill, thought, and fun, and turned it into elmo's paint by numbers for the masses. Why are people leaving WoW and each new MMORPG that comes out after a few months of play? Its the same trite crap, that lacks any depth. Once you finished the theme park ride, rode the roller-coaster more than a few times, painted the entire paint by numbers picture they are bored, and demand new content. This keeps them entertained. If it doesn't give them the most "elite" skills, loot, or cookie cutter skills, they never play the old content unless they absolutely have to. Why? Because its nothing more than casual fun with limited depth.Kids aren't to blame, lazy gamers are.


Well, it might come off as trolling and a bit light, but in all honesty, this sense of "elitism", in my opinion, comes into play particularly amongst forum posters. Who's to say you defined whether or not the genre WAS fun before and who allowed you to be the leading authority of declaring the genre as officially "ruined".


I might agree on some parts where people are harder to retain than ever before, but thats because everyone has varied interests. You honestly think you can retain everyone's attention from day 1 of release, 6 months later? It happens with every game since the game industry has existed, this is nothing new nor restricted to the MMO genre.


That's just people in general and its a universal fact thats accepted. The majority of people will not stick to a game for a very prolonged period of time, I mean can you even say you have, yourself? Maybe, I can see it, but I'll gladly use myself an example...I definitely have not and I don't want to think I'm the only one that functions this way.


I think your last opinion on the general population is rather bellicose and IMO, inaccurate. I think many people have different reasons why they would stop playing a game and I doubt its because they don't feel "extremely elite" etc. Most people I know that tend to play these MMO's are casual gamers with the hardcore being a minority of my friends. Those casual gamers tend to stop because other interests come around. Interests come and go especially this day and age but I don't think it should be used to reflect a dying/ruined genre/industry. That's a rather inaccurate statement backed by little to no evidence outside people's personal opinions.

  karat76

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/22/06
Posts: 1010

Greatest threat to society is letting casualties of puberty reproduce.

8/21/13 12:24:55 AM#75
Originally posted by donpopuki
Originally posted by Mr.Kujo
It's funny that games were originaly made for kids, but it turned out that those kids after growing up kept playing games xD It was pretty unexpected and the industry had to adjust to that. I still have the feeling that adults are the guests in ths world, not kids. But they want to take over and take all the fun away from kids, by taking everything that doesn't look serious out of those games. But it is just my opinion.

Well said. Another poster pointed out it's the 9-5 3 kids and dog people that want the games dumbed down because they have no time for it. Does this mean it's the grown ups that are causing the games to become easier? Oh the irony.

Have to disagree with you. I have the kids,job,dogs,cats and a wife and I might be lucky to get 10 hours a week in a mmo. I hated raiding even when I was single and had no life. I really don't care about the epeen circle jerk that is raiding. I play to enjoy myself for a couple of hours and relax after dealing with criminals and deadbeats all day. I don't expect the best gear as games cater to raiders and feed them the gear. I just want more options for end game  other than raid treadmill. EQ1 prior Scars of Velious and DAoC prior Trials of Atlantis were great games. I did not have an issue with people progressing faster or doing raids as I felt I could make some progress and enjoy myself at my own pace and group with friends or power level their alts.

  Smintar

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/12/06
Posts: 174

8/21/13 8:59:02 AM#76
When EQ came out in March of 99 my daughter hadn't turned 9 yet but she play it and played a chanter named her Palra, nice name to but she could play that Character as good as any Adult and I would simply stop what I was doing and watch her play. I would hear others talk about the KIDS but never did they ever say anything about my daughters gameplay.
  Scot

Elite Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5161

8/21/13 10:07:42 AM#77

"It's true that certain young audiences are the target of some games, and kids influence their parents' spending power, but we've seen this come up again and again."

As you say it is true Christina, so it should be hardly surprising when players point to this and blame it for the kidifictation of gaming. You can't have it both ways, you see it is a factor and then question us when we point the finger. The fact we have brought this up before many times simply shows how long this has gone on and how pervasive it is.

One of our posters pointed out that the average age of gamers is going up, quite so but marketing does not care. Marketing knows cartoons sell to children and they know you an old crusty will still play games with that style (like WoW). The games developers also know that cartoon graphics are cheaper. And that's all they need to know to make the decision to go cartoon.

  Alexvano

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/15/06
Posts: 14

8/21/13 10:18:54 AM#78
Actually you were/are trolling. It's universally a fact that people don't play game longer than 6 months? That is completely untrue. Games like UO, AC, EVE, WoW, GW, GW2, and the list is as long as there are MMORPs, have players that have characters that celebrate many birthdays. The recent trend towards short subscription periods has been the move from deep engaging gameplay with limitless choices, to my character clicks to harvest and craft, moves with mouse/arrow keys, and fights with 1-10. Rinse and repeat until you reach the arbitrary level cap. After that play the scripted end-game content that lasts 1-2 months until you have the best gear. Then what? Games are celebrating 15 and 10 year anniversaries. Some dying, some growing bigger. The longest I personally played a single game was 5 years on and off as I felt like playing and time in my life permitted. Since games started emulating the WoW formula of Graphics and ease of play with little gameplay features or mechanics I have not stuck with one longer than 2-3 months having seen and done as much as I cared to in these theme park games, or having done all there is to do. Why? No choice and no depth from studios hoping to emulate Blizzards right place, right place success, where gameplay and depth are last place priorities. With these games failing month after month you are seeing companies returning to the roots of the genre and a renaissance of sandbox and depth (hopefully in the next couple years). If you look at the hype meter the majority of games on their are claiming to offer those two things. I don't have to be an expert, but facts are facts.
  Vinterkrig

Novice Member

Joined: 1/22/07
Posts: 1706

8/21/13 10:22:49 AM#79
Originally posted by Fendel84M
I had more patience and willingness to learn complicated video game systems when I was a kid. Believe it or not kids have no problem learning things. I have five year old cousins that know more about minecraft than I do. They play it more and they are quick to discover things and its more exciting for them.

Ah yes, parents putting their 5 year old kids in front of pixel babysitters.... fantastic !  Even better when they allow them to go online with the cesspool of fantastic people playing these games to teach them all sorts of positive personality traits... and making adults have to listen to children foam at the mouth and spew nonsense out with their wonderful prepubescent voices.

  Elikal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/09/06
Posts: 8067

“No path is darker then when your eyes are shut.” -Flemeth

8/21/13 12:36:21 PM#80
I beg to differ. It is maybe not necessarily kids by age, but the childish mentality of INSTANT REWARD and games you simply can not fail anymore. I could explain in great detail, but someone has done so much better, on the example of The Elder Scrolls. See the video in my post. It says as example EVERYTHING gone wrong with games per se. And yes, that is because of "the kids" of all ages: people who like children want everything easy, handed on platters with low attention span and dont want to fail anymore.

A forum is a place where people can discuss about different opinions. So what I don't get is, how people react offended when they come to a forum and then find... well different opinions. If a different opinion offends you, what are you even doing here?

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