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General Discussion

General Discussion 

News & Features Discussion  » [General Article] WildStar: Revenue Model Revealed

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489 posts found

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7363

8/19/13 9:17:43 PM#341
Digital box sales are a scam.

When I eat chocolate chip pie it just doesn't feel like chocolate chip cookies. The texture, the consistency, it's just not the same and this is disappointing.


Advanced Member

Joined: 4/26/05
Posts: 936

8/19/13 9:22:57 PM#342

If your not dedicated enough to part with $15 a month and would only play the game if it was free then your saying the game isn't good enough to pay for. Thing is no one is ever playing for free. Players who spend money on the game are paying for the freeloaders bandwidth.

I'm in favor of a subscription based game.

How to post links.
LoveMinecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer


Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/28/11
Posts: 271

8/19/13 9:32:12 PM#343
Originally posted by funcon
This looks like a pretty cool game. To bad they are 10 years late.




Novice Member

Joined: 6/20/08
Posts: 1066

8/19/13 10:19:39 PM#344
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Does not offer enough of what I like in a game to sub. Hard set classes with no freedom to multiclass on one char, 1 role on 1 char... naaaaa! Also this game is focused on the hardcore raiding guilds and I am a casual game with to much real life going on to sub to a game like that. Sub is a fail for me on this game, maybe not for another game that likes my casual play style. 

Since your greenness stands out so much, I'll make a quick response to that each class has 2 stated roles either Tank/DPS or Heal/DPS. A player may get all tank/heal or choose to go all dps route per class. Any class can also go support buffs and CC route. So every class really has 3 roles, all depends on your set of 8 skills you want to use and gear.

So that really leaves you just being a casual gamer. Have fun doing whatever else!


Novice Member

Joined: 9/25/04
Posts: 387

8/19/13 10:44:40 PM#345

I think that it doesn't matter if it's a car a house a pet or a video game... the things you pay for in life are the things you appreciate and treat well.

I've noticed a huge lapse in the average gamer in regard to passion for the game and respect for the community and other gamers.

If people want to just play a fast paced first person shooter type game where action and advancement are the most important thing then they should hop on a multiplayer in STEAM and have it up.  XBOX live or console gaming is a great place to act like you were only raised in the gutter by your peers, not PC social environments global chat.

I like P2P games better because I truly feel that even if you're 15 with a paper route, if you have to cough up something every month in order to be part of a community, you treat it better.  F2P games attract people who don't care about the community, don't care if they get banned for behavior or exploits... they just game jump or create new accounts.  In North America, in my opinion, it just degrades the entire experience to the lowest common denominator player.  To the guy that doesn't know how to act or gets a thrill from breaking the game for other players.

That plus the fact that the devs have a constant stream of income coming through the door along with cash shop credits or PLEX or CREDD etc... just makes it easier for them to keep the lights on, avoid layoffs and keep a great game great.  

I think Wildstar made the perfect decision for their revenue model.  I hope it's a tremendous success for a long long time.  I hope it puts the behemoth to bed and has 15 million subscribers and blows all the old records out the door.   I am all for barrier to entry and P2P games, I think they enhance every reason we love MMO's.  Take my money Carbine.

No bitchers.


Novice Member

Joined: 8/02/13
Posts: 6

8/19/13 11:09:44 PM#346
Originally posted by Greyed

Huge mistake.  Number of AAA MMOs released in the latter half of the naughties that have survived on that model.  0.

The player base has voted with their wallets, they prefer the B2P or F2P models.

Isn't that more like voting without your wallet?


Novice Member

Joined: 8/20/13
Posts: 15

8/19/13 11:16:05 PM#347

6 months. Thats roughly how long it will take for Carbine to realize that they have made a huge mistake in their payment model and switch over to a free to play model. There is a reason that there are only a handful of subscription games left out there now.

Firstly, since 2008 we have been in recession and in many parts of the world, USA and Europe included, people dont have a large amount of disposable income anymore. That means that a regular payment to play a game is no longer an attractive prospect for anyone anymore. And its not a coincidence that since 2008, Free to Play, buy to play or any variation there of, have become insanely popular. In short, the credit crunch killed the Subscription model except for a handful of anomalous exceptions such as niche games like Eve Online and super massive games like World of Warcraft.

Secondly, there is far, FAR More money to be made in a free to play model that is done correctly, than you can ever get from a subscription model. Free to play allows a person to buy little bits for their account, such as extra content, cosmetics etc. It allows a person to tailor their playing experience to what they like. Further, as you arent forcing people to pay to play, they will be more inclined to spend a few bucks here and there...and this adds  up a lot of the time to more than a subscription price. Its a bit of a trick on the mind, but it works when it is done correctly.

But yeah, they have basically cut off a HUGE portion of the gamers by putting this game behind a subscription wall. This was not a smart decision on the part of Carbine. Im sure they feel they have something unique and worth the money, but so did The Secret World and that went F2P in less than a year. SWTOR had a huge license behind it and it went free to play within a year too. No new game can exist as a subscription model MMO anymore unless its filling a VERY specific niche. I give it 6 months before we see F2P like I said.

I know I wont be paying a sub for a game ever again, far too many good games that you can play for free now. Wildstar is not worth it.


Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/27/04
Posts: 2964

A strange game. The only winning move is not to play. How about a nice game of chess?

8/19/13 11:23:20 PM#348

So it won't be F2P, B2P or P2P.

I will definitely be trying this game out then! It will be nice trying a game out and actually playing with players that have interest in the game and not the freeloaders. I always hated the limitations those 3 formats brings and believe me, I rather being paying a monthly sub instead of random dollar here and a dollar there in my mmorpg games.

I am so sick to death with all these F2P, B2P and P2P store mechanics and communities that these formats bring. Hate all you want on the subscription system, I hope they stick with it and wish the game a success.


Novice Member

Joined: 8/20/13
Posts: 15

8/19/13 11:25:37 PM#349
Originally posted by 7imelord

So it won't be F2P, B2P or P2P.

I will definitely be trying this game out then! It will be nice trying a game out and actually playing with players that have interest in the game and not the freeloaders. I always hated the limitations those 3 formats brings and believe me, I rather being paying a monthly sub instead of random dollar here and a dollar there in my mmorpg games.

I am so sick to death with all these F2P, B2P and P2P store mechanics and communities that these formats bring. Hate all you want on the subscription system, I hope they stick with it and wish the game a success.

Sorry to disappoint you, but it wont be a success. And calling people who want to save money and play free mmos names is childish. Grow up.


Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/13
Posts: 344

8/19/13 11:37:21 PM#350
Originally posted by doug200463

I have to agree with Vorch, subscription games are obsolete.. idc if you can grind and buy time with in game gold.. still have to pay a sub... time/money.. Ill stick with my f2p/b2p games... too many good games out there that dont require a sub, to mess with one that has a sub.. plain and simple.


No, no it isn't obsolete. Not even close.


It's still viable. It will remain viable. Saying otherwise will not change that.


Once more, we see the same point driven home about what makes sub-based MMOs work..


To quote the article:


"The important part about going F2P or Subscription isn’t the revenue model, says Jeremy, it’s “whether the game’s any good.  Quality speaks louder than cost.”"


That's all that matters.


Yet, the people who continue to beat that drum of "subs are obsolete" or "subs are dying" continue to completely miss that point, and keep looking at it backwards.


It's not the subscription that makes the game worthwhile. It's the game that makes the subscription worthwhile.


This was understood - not even so much as debated - for years before virtually anyone in the Western market even knew what a "microtransaction" or "cash shop" was.


People understood intuitively that "if a game isn't good enough, people won't pay to play it, and it will fail.".


F2P bursts on the scene, a bunch of clever, but ultimately dishonest PR folk start spinning their nonsense about it, and suddenly it's as though an entire chunk of the MMO gaming population took stupid pills. Intuition and Logic was thrown out the window, replaced with vacuous talking point arguments, typically regurgitated by people who haven't the slightest clue what they're actually talking about.  It "sounds good to them", so they repeat it. Ad nauseum.


To wit... Subscriptions aren't going anywhere. They will be around for a long, long.. looooong time.


So, up 'til now, the favored argument was "FFXIV will be the last subscription-based MMO".


Prior to that, it was "TOR will be the last AAA sub-based MMO"


I guess now it'll become "Wildstar will be the last AAA sub-based MMO"


... until the next one is revealed/released...


Seriously, how many times do you anti-P2P people have to be proven wrong before it sinks in?



Novice Member

Joined: 9/25/04
Posts: 387

8/19/13 11:39:19 PM#351

My post before was a bit long.  

I just wanted to say, I am so happy with this decision Carbine, thank you thank you and thank you.


No bitchers.


Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/01/10
Posts: 247

The thing is... you're important to a lot of people.

8/19/13 11:45:38 PM#352
Y es I really like this model as well for this team of devs. They are promising a rich world worth it's own in value at the least so I'll take their word for now!!

Novice Member

Joined: 7/18/13
Posts: 36

8/19/13 11:51:17 PM#353

I just dont get why people would hold on to their measly 15 bucks for something that is potentially bad, than to just drop it on something that is more than likely good!! EVEN if WS ends up going F2P, I say play it early on while there is fun to be had and ppl to play it with. If a game fails, it wont be YOUR fault, esp if you are having fun. So Im GLAD this game has a sub option for two reasons, 1) guaranteed regular content updates, and 2) all those cheap mofos who complain about 15 stinkin dollars will stay away from it. 

When i played Wow i was a jobless college student and I still crapped together 15 a month to raid weekly, for 3 years..because I HAD FUN DOING IT. 

Bottom line: if there is fun to be had, why not buy it. Im not one for excess grinding and/or an unfair advantages. 


Novice Member

Joined: 11/08/08
Posts: 21

8/19/13 11:57:05 PM#354

Sorry to post this here but I'm not really finding a private way to contact you.

There's a typo in your article.


This protects players from manipulation of the market, and allows players who are industrious enough to spend their in-game gold to buy game time and never have to actually pay for a subscription.  Meanwhile, players who want to buy gold won’t have to seek out shady third-party dealers; they can simply buy a $19.99 CREDD (higher than a normal month of game-time, again to help keep the market in control) and sell it on the CE for what Jeremy assumes will be a healthy some of in-game gold.

Some should be sum.

Thanks for the article.


Advanced Member

Joined: 6/03/09
Posts: 421

8/20/13 12:08:00 AM#355
Originally posted by BearKnight

I've said it before, and i'll say it again. If World of Warcraft would be more successful on the "F2P" or "B2P" system it would move to those systems. Blizzard KNOWS how the game is played. Well done, high quality, products do NOT go into the F2P or B2P markets, you just don't make the same returns as P2P and you keep undesirables out.


Good on you WildStar, although you're a WoW clone I'm slightly more tempted to try you now.






I'd have to strongly disagree. You're talking about a game that has millions of players/subscribers... Why in the hell would they change their business model if they already have a strong base?  It's people like you who would leave at the first sight of it going F2P because you think F2P is this terrible and evil thing. It has nothing to do with F2P being inferior to P2P or the other way around they are simply just 2 DIFFERENT business models.


Studies HAVE shown that F2P is capable of producing more income than a sub-based model. So could Blizzard essentially change their model and expect to see an increase in revenue? Yes. But doing so could produce adverse affects. I for one certainly would not go back to that game if it were free because I'm tired of it. With a game as old as WoW it would be pointless to change unless they lost a huge amount of people.


Novice Member

Joined: 12/27/11
Posts: 29

8/20/13 12:10:41 AM#356
So I pay a monthly, big deal, security and peace of mind that I know I won't get nickle and dimed like F2P games.

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/14/12
Posts: 380

8/20/13 12:15:38 AM#357
 Very happy with this move, I most likely will play this over elder scrolls and EQN now being they are going F2P from what I understand.


Novice Member

Joined: 11/08/06
Posts: 105

8/20/13 12:33:16 AM#358
Originally posted by GeezerGamer
Wild Star is an NCSOFT publication. Just makes me wonder how profitable GW2's B2P model really is for them to abandon it.

What makes you think GW2 is being abandoned when the game is about to be released in China? Lets not make stuff up ok?


Novice Member

Joined: 11/30/11
Posts: 1295

8/20/13 1:47:45 AM#359

I think the problem is that the 2 things people want most are Longevity and Free to Play. Sorry folks but Free to Play games die within the first few months of release, by die i dont mean get shut down. i mean they become unpopular and have a massive decrease in population. Half of that population may actually put money into the game via the cash shop. This doesnt breed longevity, this is what makes games take their time to put out content. This also makes alot of F2P gamers game hoppers who finish content and then ditch within afew months.


Now B2P tends to atleast bring production value back to the company so they can get started on progressing the game. then afterwards they hope like hell they bring in enough profit in the cash shop in order to keep things going, However most people here hate that too. 


Then P2P Will bring in money so long as there is a player base. However this F2P craze has killed the idea we should support the companies for the games we like (how dare they expect compensation for their work) which is the only model that will automatically provide progression of the game. there is a reason why WoW has 4 expansions, a decent support team and constant a content Patch progressions. They have the money to do it because their fan base pays them for it regularly.


If your expect longevity out of a game, you should ask for P2P. Sandbox games get this too, because even in a sandbox if new stuff isnt added (not talking content) The game gets stale.

Because i can.
I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
Logic every gamers worst enemy.


Advanced Member

Joined: 8/17/09
Posts: 3210

"A very special kind of stupidity"

8/20/13 1:50:52 AM#360
Originally posted by GeezerGamer

I am thrilled there is no cash shop, but at the same time, The cash Shop isn't what I disliked about GW2. It was the fact that the entire economy of the game revolves around the value of Gems and very few items have any value so players can't become wealthy enough to never need to buy gems. I'd prefer a GW2 like Cash Shop if only it wasn't for real money conversions. I will probably not be paying a Sub for a game where I can buy in-game currency


EVE has 2 advantages that make this model work that I am very curious to see here.

1. EVE had 5 years to mature it's game economy before introducing PLEX. The game was a sandbox and the economy was very strong. This allowed for the value of ISK to grow on its own for 5 years without any influence from the real world's economy. So when it was finally introduced, the value of real currency was exceedingly week against the value of EVE's money. So while it's technically possible to "pay to win" in EVE, the amount of real money to do it would be insane. And that's even assuming the amount invested into the PLEX system would be enough to do it. 

Wild Star will not have this advantage. The value of Credd will be set against real money from the get-go and will never be allowed to grow beyond it. Fortunately it's a Theme Park. But I still have to wonder what will happen to the game's economy and all the metagames that surround it.


2. It's advantageous within EVE for players to have multiple accounts and CCP was brilliant in figuring out how to subsidize that across the "mediocre" player base to allow the more invested players to leverage their in-game success so those under them can pay for it. I'd have to wonder how successful PLEX would be if EVE players ever only needed or wanted a single account. not saying it wouldn't work, there'd just be less commodity to trade.

Wild Star does not look like a game players will want multiple accounts in.


PLEX only set into the market mechanics the Game Time Card trade which had been functioning that way from the beginning. EVE had the equivalent of the PLEX mechanic right from the start.

It's an extremely clever mechanic that squares several circles, and it's good to see another developer taking it on board.

As previously mentioned in this, the PLEX/CREDD system means that the publisher has a very strong incentive to see that the game economy is done right and stays right. That can only be a good thing.

Give me liberty or give me lasers

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