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News & Features Discussion  » [General Article] WildStar: Revenue Model Revealed

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489 posts found
  sirchive

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/18/03
Posts: 56

8/19/13 3:26:33 PM#281

Please stop referring to the 30 days of play time that comes with the initial 60 dollar purchase as a"free 30 days". It's not free. You pay 60 dollars to get the first 30 days. The ability to play for 30 days is he ONLY thing you get for your initial purchase. So it's actually an extremely expensive 30 days of play.

It's as if the grocery store offered "free steak" but you have to pay twenty bucks for the plastic wrapper.

Doesn't matter, tho. There simply aren't enough people out there who will pay a hefty box price plus sub for an unknown game by an unknown company based on an original IP. This pay scheme will fail bigtime.

 
  Muntz

Novice Member

Joined: 10/09/09
Posts: 279

8/19/13 3:33:17 PM#282
Originally posted by GeezerGamer
Originally posted by Muntz
Originally posted by GeezerGamer
Originally posted by DAOWAce

RIP Wildstar.

It looked like an MMORPG that should've been made a few years ago, now it's confirmed to use a subscription model like games years ago.

This will die faster than SWTOR, and that was carried by the fact it was, you know, Star Wars.

 

Now I wonder how long FFXIV will last.  Probably indefinitely, because of how long FFXI has been going on with a low, niche playerbase.

 

I just do not see how you can offer a subscription based game in present time anymore.

It's quite simple actually. All you need to do to successfully offer a subscription based game, is to offer a game worth subscribing to. That's what you just do not see in present time anymore. Well, at least I see one anyway, and this one isn't it.

 

Sure, simple. Each individual customer is going to decide what is worth subscribing to. That will be based on what is being offered not just in this game but in every game that is out and every game that will come out. The comparison was small in the distant past. 

Somewhere between WoW TBC and WoW Wrath, there was a focus change. The games began to focus on the reward instead of the content.

For those of us who played MMOs before then.....think back to your most fond memories of accomplishments in MMOs. I'mm willing to bet tha tfor the most of us, they revolved around doing the very things players had bitched about and got removed. 

Back in the TBC days, I remember leveling my hunter through Outland. I remember doing the long quest chain in BEM to get that blue neck item. I remember doing the long ass quest chain starting in Nagrand that lead through dungeons and ended with a 5 man team quest in SMV to get the Sunfury Leggings. I remember grinding my ass off doing dailys to get Don Santos Rifle on my Hunter. I remember busint my ass to get LW to 375 and Dragonscale LW so I could create the Ebon Netherscale Armor set. I remember getting Legacy out of Kara. 

Now, Ask me if I can tell you what my Death Knight wore.

See old MMOs were never about "What does the player want to do" but rather, they were about "What is the player willing to go through to get what they want"?

Modern players don't like that system. But yet, it kept 12M players logging back in every month. Soon as Blizz changed that focus they started bleeding.

I never played WoW. I did play AO. It had that system but I don't remember it half as fondly. I look at many of those accomplishments as a big waste of time that really wasn't that fun. That is my perspective of the past. I suppose for some I'm part of the problem.  I just don't want to play a game design like that. If that is your idea of fun and this or another game provides it, I won't be playing but I hope you enjoy it. I think for the most parts games get judged by their peers and the future and not the past. With so many games coming out that can be difficult to keep up with.  

  blutm8

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/20/07
Posts: 57

8/19/13 3:34:20 PM#283
this CREDD model is old.. EvE online got it many years ago
  Aroukos

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/13/13
Posts: 584

8/19/13 3:34:52 PM#284
Originally posted by sirchive

Please stop referring to the 30 days of play time that comes with the initial 60 dollar purchase as a"free 30 days". It's not free. You pay 60 dollars to get the first 30 days. The ability to play for 30 days is he ONLY thing you get for your initial purchase. So it's actually an extremely expensive 30 days of play.

It's as if the grocery store offered "free steak" but you have to pay twenty bucks for the plastic wrapper.

 

ahahaha true!

 

anyway i dont care if wildstar's payment method is p2p or p2win. i think that in the current mmo market, with so many descent f2p/b2p games and many more coming in the near future, like eq next and archeage, Wildstar will be R.I.P.2P

  Jinxys

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/30/05
Posts: 356

8/19/13 3:38:24 PM#285
Good call Carbine/NC . I am glad you decided to go the P2P route. If your game is as good as it looks and sounds, which I think it might be. Then it will still get the numbers and people will not hesitate to sub. The P2P subscription model is FAR from dead. I'm elated you decided not to go with a Cashshop/F2P/B2P
  User Deleted
8/19/13 3:39:03 PM#286
Originally posted by Greyed

Huge mistake.  Number of AAA MMOs released in the latter half of the naughties that have survived on that model.  0.

The player base has voted with their wallets, they prefer the B2P or F2P models.

Speak for your self!

  Aroukos

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/13/13
Posts: 584

8/19/13 3:40:41 PM#287
Originally posted by Jinxys
Good call Carbine/NC . I am glad you decided to go the P2P route. If your game is as good as it looks and sounds, which I think it might be. Then it will still get the numbers and people will not hesitate to sub. The P2P subscription model is FAR from dead. I'm elated you decided not to go with a Cashshop/F2P/B2P
 

 

no cash shop? hmmmm, wait a bit m8 and you will see one in game at launch :)

  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 4388

It's a combination of Nightingale Armor with the Mod Truebound Deadric Armors

8/19/13 3:42:38 PM#288
Originally posted by Muntz
Originally posted by GeezerGamer
Originally posted by Muntz
Originally posted by GeezerGamer
Originally posted by DAOWAce

RIP Wildstar.

It looked like an MMORPG that should've been made a few years ago, now it's confirmed to use a subscription model like games years ago.

This will die faster than SWTOR, and that was carried by the fact it was, you know, Star Wars.

 

Now I wonder how long FFXIV will last.  Probably indefinitely, because of how long FFXI has been going on with a low, niche playerbase.

 

I just do not see how you can offer a subscription based game in present time anymore.

It's quite simple actually. All you need to do to successfully offer a subscription based game, is to offer a game worth subscribing to. That's what you just do not see in present time anymore. Well, at least I see one anyway, and this one isn't it.

 

Sure, simple. Each individual customer is going to decide what is worth subscribing to. That will be based on what is being offered not just in this game but in every game that is out and every game that will come out. The comparison was small in the distant past. 

Somewhere between WoW TBC and WoW Wrath, there was a focus change. The games began to focus on the reward instead of the content.

For those of us who played MMOs before then.....think back to your most fond memories of accomplishments in MMOs. I'mm willing to bet tha tfor the most of us, they revolved around doing the very things players had bitched about and got removed. 

Back in the TBC days, I remember leveling my hunter through Outland. I remember doing the long quest chain in BEM to get that blue neck item. I remember doing the long ass quest chain starting in Nagrand that lead through dungeons and ended with a 5 man team quest in SMV to get the Sunfury Leggings. I remember grinding my ass off doing dailys to get Don Santos Rifle on my Hunter. I remember busint my ass to get LW to 375 and Dragonscale LW so I could create the Ebon Netherscale Armor set. I remember getting Legacy out of Kara. 

Now, Ask me if I can tell you what my Death Knight wore.

See old MMOs were never about "What does the player want to do" but rather, they were about "What is the player willing to go through to get what they want"?

Modern players don't like that system. But yet, it kept 12M players logging back in every month. Soon as Blizz changed that focus they started bleeding.

I never played WoW. I did play AO. It had that system but I don't remember it half as fondly. I look at many of those accomplishments as a big waste of time that really wasn't that fun. That is my perspective of the past. I suppose for some I'm part of the problem.  I just don't want to play a game design like that. If that is your idea of fun and this or another game provides it, I won't be playing but I hope you enjoy it. I think for the most parts games get judged by their peers and the future and not the past. With so many games coming out that can be difficult to keep up with.  

This is where we get different tastes I guess. I was a huge fan of AO. Just not as many people played it back then so I don't use it as a reference. But to me, Yeah, AO fit's, I loved it. I

Recently started playing SWTOR. I am posting updates to my experience in this thread:
SWTOR Experience

  NobleNerd

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/08/08
Posts: 429

Try not!
Do or do not
There is no try.

8/19/13 3:43:04 PM#289

I will comment short and sweet, seeing there is a sea of replies already.

 

I applaud them for deciding to stick to the subscription model. I prefer to sub. to a game if the content and quality is there. This brings me to my next thought.... I for one do not find much interest in this game. It reminds me of WoW and I am one gamer that is done with the WoW type games. I do like their concept on housing though.

 

My sub. dollars will be going to FFXIV right now. I have played all the betas and with much improvement, I am hooked. I am one of those MMOers that like story content (great story content) in my MMO. SE has done a great job of reviving the 1.0 model and bringing it back to what I see as one of the greatest MMOs of 2013!

  observer

Elite Member

Joined: 2/17/05
Posts: 2063

First came pride, then envy.

8/19/13 3:44:22 PM#290
Originally posted by BillMurphy
I'm surprised there's so little talk about the 2014 release date delay... :)

stay on topic!
 

  Mwaazie

Novice Member

Joined: 8/19/13
Posts: 1

8/19/13 3:46:00 PM#291

My problem is mostly the Price... it might not be that much for most people but there's a thing that kinda disgusts me. This Models smells like this for me:

"-Umm yea... the game is released we put so much money in it so lets just have it back fast okay?

-Well, of course we can sell the game for money... lets make it 60 bucks!

-Yea that's fine but more money would be nicer!

-Well... make it 120 then

-Naaah thats too much!

- Well some games charge player for playing the game monthly!

-Cool do that aswell!"

What i mean is there are B2P games cheaper/same box price as this ... and there are P2P games withouth a box price/lower box price and they're GOOD games... but paying the price for the game AND then paying monthly? (and i dont care what people say, after you payed 60 bucks for the first month (not the game, you dont get the game since if you stop paying you cant play it) 15 is a tad too much IMO). If it would be B2P with the same price or P2P with the same monthly fee without the box price, i think it would be fine... but both at the same time? Sounds a bit greedy for me. Well it really doesnt matter for me i'm waiting on EQn and even more on ESO, but it would've been nice to try Wildstar... not at this cost:S (And stop saying that 60 + monthly15 bucks is nothing, it might be in some countries but you forget, they sell it for the same price in countries where people get much less money for their job)

  observer

Elite Member

Joined: 2/17/05
Posts: 2063

First came pride, then envy.

8/19/13 3:46:58 PM#292
I'm surprised some of you are praising the subscription model.  You're deluding yourselves if you think a sub. game gives more quality.  Tell me this, how many mmos have you quit within the first mmo of trying them out?  Did you complain about end-game?  If so, shouldn't the subscription model provide the quality for end-game?  Exactly.
  Wraithone

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/09/04
Posts: 3559

If you can't kill it, don't make it mad.

8/19/13 3:48:44 PM#293
Good for them.  Yoshi P, made a very compelling argument for why subscriptions are better, than other options for a game, and its players.  WAY too many companies have been chasing the tasty pie in the sky, that many of the Asian games have.  But different models work best for different cultures.  It really does matter if ones game is good, and if content is added in a timely fashion.  I'd not count subscription games out, in the Western markets, quite yet.
  observer

Elite Member

Joined: 2/17/05
Posts: 2063

First came pride, then envy.

8/19/13 3:50:16 PM#294
Originally posted by kaz350

I'm SHOCKED at the amount of people that would perfer F2P over a sub...for $15 you get the ENTIRE GAME !!

 

You dont have to pay for your

  1. helmet show/not show
  2. your last name visable
  3. Special story quest
  4. mounts
  5. compainions
  6. flavor gear
  7. bag space
  8. bank bag space
  9. pets
  10. clearly P2W style enchants
  11. Passes to PVP
  12. Passes to Dungeons
  13. Passes to Raid
  14. Dyes for gear
  15. items to change your gear to other looks
 
 
Need I go on? You people are INSANE!!!
 

This is absolutely ridiculous.  You're trying to paint the whole f2p market with a broad brush.  Just because that's swtor's model, doesn't mean it's like that for all mmos.  Rift is one example where the f2p model is executed really well. (the only complaint i have about it, is that pre-raid gear is p2w)

  Wraithone

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/09/04
Posts: 3559

If you can't kill it, don't make it mad.

8/19/13 4:00:06 PM#295
Originally posted by observer
I'm surprised some of you are praising the subscription model.  You're deluding yourselves if you think a sub. game gives more quality.  Tell me this, how many mmos have you quit within the first mmo of trying them out?  Did you complain about end-game?  If so, shouldn't the subscription model provide the quality for end-game?  Exactly.

The delusion comes from those who expect something for nothing.  A steady revenue stream helps the company project its needs into the future, and thus allows better content generation.   Notice I said *allows*, not mandates.  Yoshi P made a very compelling argument in favor of subscriptions.

http://venturebeat.com/2013/06/17/final-fantasy-online-director-defends-monthly-subscriptions-in-the-golden-age-of-free-to-play-exclusive/

As for the other, if you have nothing invested in a game, its a lot easier to just leave and chase after the next F2P shiny that comes along (and the next, and the next, and the next...).  But given the current ADD generation and its well known short attention span, and thus low skill ceiling, thats only to be expected.  But lets not encourage such antics, when it can be avoided.

  Brialyn

Novice Member

Joined: 5/20/08
Posts: 184

8/19/13 4:03:48 PM#296
Good for them!



Currently Playing: FFXIV:ARR
Looking Forward to: Wildstar

  seegeekrun

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/19/13
Posts: 10

8/19/13 4:06:09 PM#297
Originally posted by Wraithone
Originally posted by observer
I'm surprised some of you are praising the subscription model.  You're deluding yourselves if you think a sub. game gives more quality.  Tell me this, how many mmos have you quit within the first mmo of trying them out?  Did you complain about end-game?  If so, shouldn't the subscription model provide the quality for end-game?  Exactly.

The delusion comes from those who expect something for nothing.  A steady revenue stream helps the company project its needs into the future, and thus allows better content generation.   Notice I said *allows*, not mandates.  Yoshi P made a very compelling argument in favor of subscriptions.

http://venturebeat.com/2013/06/17/final-fantasy-online-director-defends-monthly-subscriptions-in-the-golden-age-of-free-to-play-exclusive/

As for the other, if you have nothing invested in a game, its a lot easier to just leave and chase after the next F2P shiny that comes along (and the next, and the next, and the next...).  But given the current ADD generation and its well known short attention span, and thus low skill ceiling, thats only to be expected.  But lets not encourage such antics, when it can be avoided.

Here here! What he said.

  Asamof

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/19/04
Posts: 683

8/19/13 4:08:12 PM#298

There goes all my interest for the game!!

 

Guess Carbine DOES want that embarrassing countdown to F2P conversion. Sad.

  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 4388

It's a combination of Nightingale Armor with the Mod Truebound Deadric Armors

8/19/13 4:09:02 PM#299
Originally posted by Wraithone
Originally posted by observer
I'm surprised some of you are praising the subscription model.  You're deluding yourselves if you think a sub. game gives more quality.  Tell me this, how many mmos have you quit within the first mmo of trying them out?  Did you complain about end-game?  If so, shouldn't the subscription model provide the quality for end-game?  Exactly.

The delusion comes from those who expect something for nothing.  A steady revenue stream helps the company project its needs into the future, and thus allows better content generation.   Notice I said *allows*, not mandates.  Yoshi P made a very compelling argument in favor of subscriptions.

http://venturebeat.com/2013/06/17/final-fantasy-online-director-defends-monthly-subscriptions-in-the-golden-age-of-free-to-play-exclusive/

As for the other, if you have nothing invested in a game, its a lot easier to just leave and chase after the next F2P shiny that comes along (and the next, and the next, and the next...).  But given the current ADD generation and its well known short attention span, and thus low skill ceiling, thats only to be expected.  But lets not encourage such antics, when it can be avoided.

Wild Star isn't going for a steady revenue stream. They are trying to go for a cash grab.

a B2P boxed fee

a P2P subscription Fee

a real money transaction option

Talk about double dipping.

They probably know all to well, they can't sustain that indefinitely. and will alter the boxed fee or the sub fee or implement a Cash Shop at some point.

If this game turns out to have an awesome endgame, I'd be willing to pay the $60, I'd pay the $15/mo. But I pull the breaks on RMT.

Recently started playing SWTOR. I am posting updates to my experience in this thread:
SWTOR Experience

  sirchive

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/18/03
Posts: 56

8/19/13 4:11:45 PM#300

People on this topic generally comment based on their own personal preferences for the type of pay model. This varies widely of course but it really not very important.

 

The important thing is that it is almost impossible to imagine that a somewhat odd looking game from an generally unknown developer based on an original IP is going to be able to attract a lot of people willing to pay a hefty box price plus a monthly sub. 

 

When was the last time a game with an unknown IP succeeded with this pay model, even for the short term? City of Heroes? That was 8 years ago. A lot has changed since then. There are a LOT more gaming options out there, many at very low prices. 

 

The Wildstar developers are delusional. They seem to think they are Blizzard circa 2005. 

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