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World of Warcraft

World of Warcraft 

General Discussion  » Call the ambulance WoW under 8 million subs now

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299 posts found
  User Deleted
8/13/13 4:05:49 AM#221

The game has been out for almost 10 years, and just about every MMO company is dying to know what they can do to replicate Blizzard's success. 

It still has more subscribers than almost every MMO combined even though it is one of the oldest MMOs out there.

It is has turned a profit every single year and therefore it is a  commercial success.

Blizzard has a new MMO already in development called 'Titan' and with WoW's 7.7 million subs they have decided to hold off on Titan and focus more on WoW because seriously the game is a cash-cow whether you like it or not 7.7 million people still like it. You can't just ignore 7.7 million subs.

The decline of WoW subscribers isn't something Blizzard hasn't predicted already. Hence why they have Titan up their sleeves. But let's be honest even when Titan comes out there will still be millions of people playing WoW, there will still be expansions for the remaining millions that play the game.

I want everyone in this thread to take 1 second to recall the last MMO you got excited for and it ended up being a complete and total disaster.

Here is a few I can name off the top of my head but I'm sure there is more.

Guild Wars 2, Aion, Age of Conan, The Secret World, All Points Bulltetin, Star Trek Online, Champions Online, and let's not forget the titanic that is SWTOR and FFXIV.

SWTOR and FFXIV were two of the giant fail MMO titanics. Two huge franchises completely fucked up. 

Meanwhile Blizzard executives sit in their lounges laughing their asses off because they have a 10 year old out-dated game that can run on a toaster at this point that is just soaking up cash every single day. Hell, look at the new cash shop Blizzard has people are buying mounts and shit like hotpockets.

Give me one MMO that has a monhtly subscription and a cash shop that isn't dead. 

I don't even play WoW anymore because it's simply gotten old for me (this is natural) I've grown out of all of my older games, clothes, girlfriends, hobbies, etc. this is called growing up.

Life sucks. Things get boring and old. Get used to it kids.

Titan will come out, and I am 100% certain anyone here who is a die-hard MMO genre fanboy will run out to pre-order that game ASAP. 

WoW isn't dying, even if WoW had 300,000 subscribers which is what most MMOs these days AIM FOR it would still be making a huge profit and pumping out expansions for those 300,000 remaining subs. 

Peace out bitches, I made an account just to reply back to this retarded thread. 

  maji

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/15/04
Posts: 1946

8/13/13 4:28:43 AM#222
Well, as was to be expected, there'd never be "the wow killer". Over time, the game would just bleed users. New players would be put off by the graphics, existing players would try out other games. Still, 7-8 million users is a number that other games would wish for (exist maybe DOTA 2 or something), especially subscription based games.

Let's play Fallen Earth (blind, 300 episodes)

Let's play Guild Wars 2 (blind, 45 episodes)

  Jean-Luc_Picard

Elite Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2902

There... are... four... lights!

8/13/13 8:14:34 AM#223
Originally posted by maji
Well, as was to be expected, there'd never be "the wow killer". Over time, the game would just bleed users. New players would be put off by the graphics, existing players would try out other games. Still, 7-8 million users is a number that other games would wish for (exist maybe DOTA 2 or something), especially subscription based games.

Time is the ultimate predator that kills everything human made, including WoW... and of course including the humans themself ;-)

Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2

Got a refund: Archeage. First refund since I started MMOs.

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

  Vocadi

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/21/04
Posts: 194

8/13/13 9:01:23 AM#224

Im on a 10 day Pandaria trial atm. I realize the game is not what it was in its glory days. I also let go of the fact that Blizzard made changes to class skills way back in BC when they dramatically changes class specializations and removed spell rankings. That was the start of the path to simplification.

Cata content killed off most of my guild any myself shortly after its release. I decided to try again to see how things are going with the Pandas and see that everything has been abbreviated and simplified for ease of leveling.  Dungeons that used to take 45 mins or so now only take 20. Health bubbles ala Diablo 3 drop of mobs, and I can get experience boosting buffs and gear around every corner.

I see people all around when out in the world leveling but they are all from other realms. I guess the amalgamation of servers may give the illusion of numbers, but I find it an oddity to come across someone from my actual server.

Ah well, WoW is still active and still has a die hard following so I dont think it will be going any where to soon. Besides they always have the fail safe ftp option if the bottom falls out of the ship.

  petrus4

Novice Member

Joined: 7/03/13
Posts: 16

8/13/13 9:47:52 AM#225
Originally posted by Ikeda

Nadia,  I agree with you 100%.

Still, show me a MMO with even a quarter of the WoW subscription base.... Even at this point.

Faboyish trolls like this got old before the end of TBC.

The only thing such statements demonstrate is someone who thinks that WoW or Blizzard are being "attacked," and therefore feels a need to "counterattack."

Attacking Blizzard, or WoW itself, purely for its' own sake, is not the goal.  The goal is to try and bring to Blizzard's attention, the fact that positive change is necessary.  Things actually need to improve.

  petrus4

Novice Member

Joined: 7/03/13
Posts: 16

8/13/13 9:51:12 AM#226

 


Originally posted by Vocadi Im on a 10 day Pandaria trial atm. I realize the game is not what it was in its glory days.
 

World of Warcraft: An Autopsy.

This is how I summed it up back in 2010, in terms of what had gone wrong. I briefly played during Cata, and haven't logged on during MoP; but a look at the current talent calculator on WoWHead really told me all I need to know.

  stayBlind

Novice Member

Joined: 4/19/06
Posts: 515

8/13/13 9:56:12 AM#227
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by Cirin

Every game starts at end game.

<--- My avatar once again applies.

Every game can be played in many different ways.

Actually, in my opinion, this is the worse WoW has done to the genre... make people think only "end game" matters. EQ started it, WoW made it widely popular so that many MMO players think it's the only way to play such a game.

QFT

I was under the assumption that every game starts when I launch it.

Little forum boys with their polished cyber toys: whine whine, boo-hoo, talk talk.

  petrus4

Novice Member

Joined: 7/03/13
Posts: 16

8/13/13 10:04:22 AM#228


Originally posted by hmulasmajic The game has been out for almost 10 years, and just about every MMO company is dying to know what they can do to replicate Blizzard's success.  It still has more subscribers than almost every MMO combined even though it is one of the oldest MMOs out there. It is has turned a profit every single year and therefore it is a  commercial success.

This is yet another classic trolling argument, which has been made every year since at least TBC.

What this argument has in common with the last one, is that it does not address the grievances which people have, and it does not even intend to. The only real point of it is to allow the person making it, to feel smug.

The size of WoW's subscription base, is irrelevant for the purposes of what we are talking about. WoW being a commercial success, is not so much irrelevant, as it is indicative of some of the very problems we are talking about.

  simsalabim77

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/27/13
Posts: 621

8/13/13 10:10:01 AM#229
Only 8 million subs? Shit, may as well just close it down now. Only on this website is a game in trouble when it still has 8 million subs. Get a grip on reality and realize WoW is going to be around for a long time to come with or without you. 
  Muke

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/04/07
Posts: 1641

8/13/13 10:13:24 AM#230
Originally posted by coretex666

It reached final stage of its product life cycle.

Every product does eventually, so it is not some rare phenomenon. The length of the lifecycle is what I find extraordinary in case of WoW. It has been out for a decade and it is likely to keep going for many more years. Of course the playerbase will be SIGNIFICANTLY lower than it was at its peak or even than it is now.

I believe it can remain a profitable product for a long time. However, the revenues will likely lose some zeros. It is nothing Blizzard would not expect. The question is, do they have anything that will help them maintain as much of their market share as possible? I always thought TITAN was supposed to serve this purpose. At this point, it seems rather unlikely.

From business / economic perspective, it will be interesting to watch Blizz in following decade. I am quite curious how much of their market share will they manage to hold without their only "Titan" which is currently WoW.

WOW is a typical MMO with many servers, so a decline in playerbase does not hurt the player much.

The remaining community does not need much to have the feel of a healthy game, they could just merge everything into 1 server at the end and you still feel like it is very populated.

SWG ran on life support for years with a cashshop and minimal tech support while still making some money, so this game could go on for another decade for the niche player if they really want it.

If they want to turn this around they really have to make a U-turn and introduce a much needed upgrade to the engine.

But they can't keep those numbers in the end, it's a anomaly at the right time when it went Live.

 

 

"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"

  petrus4

Novice Member

Joined: 7/03/13
Posts: 16

8/13/13 10:15:13 AM#231


Actually, in my opinion, this is the worse WoW has done to the genre... make people think only "end game" matters. EQ started it, WoW made it widely popular so that many MMO players think it's the only way to play such a game.
 

The only real goal that most people had where WoW was concerned, in the end, was epeen; basically using the game as a means of either shoring up their own lack of self-worth, or obtaining narcissistic supply, however you want to look at it.

The way they felt that they needed to do that, was to try and make themselves unique in some way; to do something that nobody had ever done before. That was the entire reason why "server first kills," existed, and it is also the reason why in the end, everyone rushed through the content as fast as they possibly could.

Nobody cared about the content. Nobody was playing the game because they actually enjoyed it, or really wanted to be there. The only objective that anyone had, was to find something within the game that nobody else had ever done before, so that if they did it, on a temporary basis at least, everyone else would think that they were awesome.

It is the same with ARPGs now as well, at least as far as the forums are concerned. Borderlands 2 doesn't suffer from this so much, but it is probably the first ARPG which doesn't. The people on its' forums aren't complete assholes; they're actually fairly decent, for the most part.

The Torchlight 2 forums were badly infected with the disease, though. The only goal there was to come up with that one character build that everyone else would bow down and worship, and therefore also the sad, basement-dwelling excuse for human life that had come up with it. As a result of this, you also tended to be viciously abused if it was discovered that you weren't using an approved spec.

  luro16

Novice Member

Joined: 5/25/10
Posts: 91

8/13/13 10:17:30 AM#232
So it still has 7.5 million more subscribers than the next most popular sub based mmo?
  simsalabim77

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/27/13
Posts: 621

8/13/13 10:20:37 AM#233
Originally posted by petrus4

 


Actually, in my opinion, this is the worse WoW has done to the genre... make people think only "end game" matters. EQ started it, WoW made it widely popular so that many MMO players think it's the only way to play such a game.
 

 

The only real goal that most people had where WoW was concerned, in the end, was epeen; basically using the game as a means of either shoring up their own lack of self-worth, or obtaining narcissistic supply, however you want to look at it.

The way they felt that they needed to do that, was to try and make themselves unique in some way; to do something that nobody had ever done before. That was the entire reason why "server first kills," existed, and it is also the reason why in the end, everyone rushed through the content as fast as they possibly could.

Nobody cared about the content. Nobody was playing the game because they actually enjoyed it, or really wanted to be there. The only objective that anyone had, was to find something within the game that nobody else had ever done before, so that if they did it, on a temporary basis at least, everyone else would think that they were awesome.

It is the same with ARPGs now as well, at least as far as the forums are concerned. Borderlands 2 doesn't suffer from this so much, but it is probably the first ARPG which doesn't. The people on its' forums aren't complete assholes; they're actually fairly decent, for the most part.

The Torchlight 2 forums were badly infected with the disease, though. The only goal there was to come up with that one character build that everyone else would bow down and worship, and therefore also the sad, basement-dwelling excuse for human life that had come up with it. As a result of this, you also tended to be viciously abused if it was discovered that you weren't using an approved spec.

 

The entire premise of your post is that most people play WoW and games like it for reasons of ego instead of playing because they actually enjoy the game. Where do you people come up with this shit?

  petrus4

Novice Member

Joined: 7/03/13
Posts: 16

8/13/13 10:22:40 AM#234


The entire premise of your post is that most people play WoW and games like it for reasons of ego instead of playing because they actually enjoy the game. Where do you people come up with this shit?
 

Close to a decade of observation. Also, not everyone plays for reasons of ego. It's actually only around 5-10%; that being the 5-10% who either use the forums, or produce YouTube videos, for the most part.

  Tamanous

Elite Member

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 1826

8/13/13 11:16:38 AM#235
Originally posted by Vocadi

 Health bubbles ala Diablo 3 drop of mobs, and I can get experience boosting buffs and gear around every corner.

They drop from the Monk class passive. They do not drop from every mob or any other class.

 

Yes the game is made for the casual in mind now. I must say there is far more emphasis on story this expansion than ever before. Tons of voice acting. I found the classes to be more defined than before and sometimes even more complex to play due to each spec often having 3rd and sometimes 4th mechanic despite the loss of traditional talent trees which were limited in choice anyway.

 

Class skill disparity is still quite the extreme. Paladins are still capable of being played by children with helmets. Hunters still do 70% of their damage between auto attack and arcane shot for those players who want to compete but only hit 1 or 2 buttons. Yet some classes require 10-15 button rotations to come even close ... and hold the interest of some players (perhaps even like me).

 

Vertical scaling is through the roof. Item levels are ridiculous. Each expansion you level through offers such better gear than greens are far better than the previous best purples. The side affect of this is that open world pvp simply cannot exist. Ignoring the fact that the majority of the players in game rarely even enter the open world (because they queue dungeon runs to level) there still cannot be open world pvp when a level 90 can kill any other player in game pre-80 with one auto-attack hit. Good luck finding a fare fight.

 

Sadly the game pretty much is a waste of time prior to the last 2 expansions. Honestly new characters should just log into the game at level 80. Cata content is easy and supply the learning curve. Panda content is about the difficulty old players once knew the game at. Anything before this is a pointless grind and so easy it makes you wonder why you are forced to do it. Yet they still make new zones and keep throwing new gear at you while the old world (even though it's redone) remains pointless. I'd prefer them to phase the entire world so players leveling never get to see end game players at all. Once you hit current content the entire world should be in a new phase and content difficulty raised to match end game content. All the level 85+ would be amongst themselves and have endless content. Leveling players have no place in game community any more anyway. They are just expected to shut up and level to current content anyway. No help is offered even by guilds. Queue up and shut up is the new motto.

 

Bliz continues to copy everyone around them and the next patch is more of the same. It is simply Bliz's take on an open world questless zone ala GW2. I imagine it will be quite different but Bliz simply adopts/borrows systems rather than develop their own ideas. The company is built on this.

 

What Wow is now is a game you can play with some real life friends and not require dedicated, massive guilds with tight raid schedules. This appeals to a great many players. Bliz still tries to cater to everyone but does so by splitting differing interests into their own sub-communities and has effectively made  their game world a pointless place the venture into. If you enter the game thinking it's the Wow of old you will be disappointed. You have to play it for the game it has become. Only then will you find any fun in it. Many still do it seems.

You stay sassy!

  petrus4

Novice Member

Joined: 7/03/13
Posts: 16

8/13/13 2:37:46 PM#236


Originally posted by simsalabim77

What does that have to do with you thinking "most" (your word not mine) of WoW players play for ego instead of playing because they enjoy it?


Then why was so much emphasis put on "server firsts," practically as soon as WotLK came out, which, while still an issue, had never happened as quickly or to the same degree, prior to that?

Why, as soon as people started levelling towards 80, if they weren't at a given point by a given time, they were told to "get with the times," because of the degree to which other people were rushing?

Why was there so much noise in the forums about players arbitrarily deciding who had or had not "earned the right to experience the lore," where the Illidan scripted fight was concerned, at the end of TBC?

I'm not making stuff up. I'm saying things that you don't want to hear. There's a difference. I'm possibly also talking about people who, by some chance, you just happened to somehow avoid, but that doesn't mean that said people were a minority, or even if they were, that they were not vocal.

  simsalabim77

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/27/13
Posts: 621

8/13/13 3:59:02 PM#237
Originally posted by petrus4

 


Originally posted by simsalabim77

 

What does that have to do with you thinking "most" (your word not mine) of WoW players play for ego instead of playing because they enjoy it?


 

Then why was so much emphasis put on "server firsts," practically as soon as WotLK came out, which, while still an issue, had never happened as quickly or to the same degree, prior to that?

Why, as soon as people started levelling towards 80, if they weren't at a given point by a given time, they were told to "get with the times," because of the degree to which other people were rushing?

Why was there so much noise in the forums about players arbitrarily deciding who had or had not "earned the right to experience the lore," where the Illidan scripted fight was concerned, at the end of TBC?

I'm not making stuff up. I'm saying things that you don't want to hear. There's a difference. I'm possibly also talking about people who, by some chance, you just happened to somehow avoid, but that doesn't mean that said people were a minority, or even if they were, that they were not vocal.

 

I don't know why more people were interested in server firsts around the time of WoTLK, but I'm guessing it had something to do with raiding being more accessible than it had been previously, and the population was larger than ever before. When a community of people are doing the same thing and success is measurable, competition occurs naturally. Competition is a part of being human. That doesn't mean most people were driven to play WoW because of their egos or because they had a character flaw. It's a hilariously arrogant assumption that most people who compete in PVE content do so because they lack self-worth or have a need to feed their ego. Out of eight million players, you think that the majority cares about any of that stuff?

 

In your first post you said that "most" players primarily care about ego stroking. In a later post, you said 5-10% based on 10 years of personal observation. Now you're bringing forum posting up when you already argued that very few players bother to post on forums. In any case, I'm done talking with you as you can't seem to consistently talk about any single point for more than a post. Have a good day.

 

  User Deleted
8/13/13 8:32:13 PM#238
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by maji
Well, as was to be expected, there'd never be "the wow killer". Over time, the game would just bleed users. New players would be put off by the graphics, existing players would try out other games. Still, 7-8 million users is a number that other games would wish for (exist maybe DOTA 2 or something), especially subscription based games.

Time is the ultimate predator that kills everything human made, including WoW... and of course including the humans themself ;-)

Best post in this thread. 

I feel like a lot of people who are so into video games the "no lifers" we call them have just been hit with a dose of reality. They've maybe spent so much time playing games they never realized how old they've gotten or how much of life is going by so quickly. 

Once they see all this news about WoW losing millions of subscribers it causes them to panic because at one point WoW had what over 12 million people stable? And everyone playing felt like they had found the perfect place to live life. The entire "no life" phrase pretty much came from WoW addictions. There is a huge panic now because "omg teh best mmo is DYING" and there is nowhere else to go right now.

Sad truth is WoW is still the best place to go if you want to feel like you are playing a massive MMO and with so many people leaving in hordes and nowhere else to go people are just freaking out. 

Video games die.

My favorite video game Phantasy Star Online for the Gamecube eventually had its servers shut down and it was pretty depressing all the people I met and knew on that game were gone. But in the end it was just a video game. It happens.

 

  Sukiyaki

Elite Member

Joined: 8/14/09
Posts: 1348

8/14/13 8:09:05 PM#239
Originally posted by sado2020
I think wow's the odd duck.  It'll be a good while before they start feeling crippled about the sub loss

Their Chinese publisher must be already feeling crippled for a while.

In the 1st quarter Chinese "subscription" based MMORPG sales besides WoW grew but declining WoW sales set them back to a overall loss.

In the latest 2nd quarter Chinese "subscription" based MMORPG sales grew again, but only slightly because further WoW losses set them back again.

The free expansion release in China last year could only slightly hold the decline back for a few days.

Its a myth or even fabricated lie that F2P games would be replacing the widely spread time credit based P2P games (also refered to as subscriptions vy Blizzard) out of the Chinese market. The Chinese "subscription" market mainly has given signs of growth.  The F2P market just grew many times larger and more profitable than ever seen. Asian remained stable aside from the speeding up decline of Tera and WoW and setback for ArcheAge in China.

 

For a global perspective, aside from the prospectively defered revenues from MoP box sales as specified in the financial reports, WoW earnings are down to the lowest point ActivisionBlizzard and Vivendi ever had to report for WoW since 2007. WoW dropped to pre-Burning Crusade status on the financial side. The side that Blizzard feels most pain from.

To bring this into a apparently popular context. WoW now "only" earns a bit more than twice as much as 15 year old Lineage 1 does alone. Unfortunately we dont have many more gamespecific breakdowns for other known bigger title, but only accumulated revenues of their category per publisher to compare them to.

Contrary to some grave delusions WoW is not even as large (neither financially nor in active accounts) as the remaining "subscription" based MMORPGs the the industry, leave alone the last, multiple times bigger or bigger than F2P or B2P included, as still very often proclaimed, when it was never true that WoW even had a majority holding in the industry at all. It was just the only one making 10 more fuzz about the same numbers as any other. In cooperation with deliberate ignorance and poor information of some fans.

  Faelsun

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/23/07
Posts: 485

8/15/13 11:35:32 PM#240
Who cares it was a great game in its prime, at least for what it was. I played up to patch 3.3 from Vanilla and personally think everything after BC was trash but even in its .. highly degraded and sad state, its still better than most of the trash out there, at least as far as themeparks go. I would even play it again it I were not so ...... dismayed by the hatchet job they did on the skill system. over simplistic, I think thats one of the reasons they are losing subs not that the game is old, they just kept placating the younger players and this is the end result. 
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