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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

Reviews & Impressions  » GW2's combat system is boring, zerg everything, why do people want that?

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123 posts found
  stayBlind

Novice Member

Joined: 4/19/06
Posts: 515

8/15/13 1:46:33 PM#61
Originally posted by Arthasm
I feel the same, OP. I was biggest fan of GW2 and because of trinity lack, I thought combat would be blast. And much more harder. But, I was sooo wrong. Super easy game. God mode on.

The fact that the game is faceroll easy has nothing to do with the lack of the holy trinity. 

 

>.>

Little forum boys with their polished cyber toys: whine whine, boo-hoo, talk talk.

  Dimsum1337

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/24/12
Posts: 60

8/15/13 1:59:19 PM#62

I dont care about trinity. However what grinds my gears with GW2 is not the combat per se but the lack of customization. Yes there there are slight alterations as you level but its just more of the same build... the thrill of unlocking new skills is somewhat reserved to that time that you first get a new weapon, and once the talents are unlocked it becomes pointless.

While this occurs in all MMOs the rapidity with which GW2 skills gets stale is just phenomenal. If there were more and "more better" skills along the way the combat would be ok by me.

 

 

My 2 c. 

  crashdx

Novice Member

Joined: 8/11/13
Posts: 55

8/15/13 7:48:07 PM#63
Originally posted by stevebombsquad
Originally posted by crashdx
Originally posted by stevebombsquad
Obviously SOE's marketing team has determined that GW2's combat system isn't well received by the majority. That is why they are already trying to distance themselves from any comparison of what they have in EQN and what GW2's system is. 

 

They also said that the trinity is a result of outdated and poor A.I.

 

 

And???  It is true to some extent. Just because I think GW2 combat is crappy doesn't mean I think that the trinity is the only answer.

 

  And nothing. You're trying to make your opinion into some fact that it is crappy just because EQN's combat system is different from GW2. Of course they are going to say this game isn't like that game, that's the logical thing to say. SWTOR said it's game was different from WoW...we see how that worked out.

 

Pretty sure those guys would agree with GW2 methods since they have a lot of similarities that can't be denied like weapon swapping and pretty much ability swapping in the same way that GW2 does. The only thing they've maintained is that you can play a healer...but that you can't necessarily play a tank because there is no aggro...much like GW2. GW2 really has no healers but you can certainly play support. The combat system right now seems REALLY familiar to GW2 despite what they say.

  munx4555

Novice Member

Joined: 6/07/07
Posts: 170

8/15/13 7:52:42 PM#64

Gw2 has some nice features, sadly to me the horrible combat / group combat easily overshadows all the good stuff in gw2, I have never had as little fun in combat as I did in gw2, especially in group combat.

The horrible endgame also does not do the game any favours.

Also have to say the so called dynamic events, were a massive disapointment, they didnt even do a good job of creating the illusion of being dynamic.

  Pluppets

Novice Member

Joined: 3/01/13
Posts: 49

8/15/13 8:23:54 PM#65
Originally posted by CalmOceans

The reason all those action MMO become zerg has been pointed out by people in the past.

 

If you remove tanking and healing from a game, you need to increase the armor of the players to compensate for this, because everyone is now a tank without heals.

 

The increased armor results in zerg tactics that aren't possible in trinity systems. You can give everyone but your tanks 0 armor in a trinity system with forced grouping, you can't do this once you remove trinity.

 

For all of the infighting over trinity systems- this simple, objective statement by CalmOceans nails it.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 

Rather than dissolving role-specific mechanics and interdependence, why not create even more roles?

 

  Bad.dog

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/20/10
Posts: 1155

8/15/13 9:12:05 PM#66
Originally posted by ee1213
Originally posted by CalmOceans

The reason all those action MMO become zerg has been pointed out by people in the past.

 

If you remove tanking and healing from a game, you need to increase the armor of the players to compensate for this, because everyone is now a tank without heals.

 

The increased armor results in zerg tactics that aren't possible in trinity systems. You can give everyone but your tanks 0 armor in a trinity system with forced grouping, you can't do this once you remove trinity.

 

For all of the infighting over trinity systems- this simple, objective statement by CalmOceans nails it.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 

Rather than dissolving role-specific mechanics and interdependence, why not create even more roles?

 

Nails it if everyone wanted to play MMO"s and do nothing but run 40 man PVE raids ,,,the problem is I lost interest in playing Simon Say's when I was in  pre-school . CalmOceans  is just another sorry  relic from the past that can't adapt to change ,I'd rather run 100 zergs than sit around for three hours on a Friday night waiting for a dick assed healer to show up so that 39 other folks can complete a run

  Pluppets

Novice Member

Joined: 3/01/13
Posts: 49

8/15/13 9:25:03 PM#67
Originally posted by Bad.dog
Originally posted by ee1213
Originally posted by CalmOceans

The reason all those action MMO become zerg has been pointed out by people in the past.

 

If you remove tanking and healing from a game, you need to increase the armor of the players to compensate for this, because everyone is now a tank without heals.

 

The increased armor results in zerg tactics that aren't possible in trinity systems. You can give everyone but your tanks 0 armor in a trinity system with forced grouping, you can't do this once you remove trinity.

 

For all of the infighting over trinity systems- this simple, objective statement by CalmOceans nails it.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 

Rather than dissolving role-specific mechanics and interdependence, why not create even more roles?

 

Nails it if everyone wanted to play MMO"s and do nothing but run 40 man PVE raids ,,,the problem is I lost interest in playing Simon Say's when I was in  pre-school . CalmOceans  is just another sorry  relic from the past that can't adapt to change ,I'd rather run 100 zergs than sit around for three hours on a Friday night waiting for a dick assed healer to show up so that 39 other folks can complete a run

Though I agree that it takes time to strategize and the like for high-tier content, you are wrong on so many levels here.

 

Firstly-- why not just put down the pitchfork, pick up an action game, and enjoy the 1000's of zergs?  I do!  But I don't want RPG's to dissolve into that.

 

  • Played 1000s of hours of WoW PVP, because I was able to craft a specific character to fill a role.  The teamwork made those hours bearable.  The same became true of PVE when I joined a great guild.
  • Played ~30 hours of GW2 and lost interest.  Judging from the numbers, I'm not alone on this one.  That shit gets old fast.

 

TL;DR - Enjoy dat action game of the month.  I'll be playing TF2.

  Pluppets

Novice Member

Joined: 3/01/13
Posts: 49

8/15/13 9:48:25 PM#68
Originally posted by Bad.dog
Originally posted by ee1213
Originally posted by CalmOceans

The reason all those action MMO become zerg has been pointed out by people in the past.

 

If you remove tanking and healing from a game, you need to increase the armor of the players to compensate for this, because everyone is now a tank without heals.

 

The increased armor results in zerg tactics that aren't possible in trinity systems. You can give everyone but your tanks 0 armor in a trinity system with forced grouping, you can't do this once you remove trinity.

 

For all of the infighting over trinity systems- this simple, objective statement by CalmOceans nails it.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 

Rather than dissolving role-specific mechanics and interdependence, why not create even more roles?

 

Nails it if everyone wanted to play MMO"s and do nothing but run 40 man PVE raids ,,,the problem is I lost interest in playing Simon Say's when I was in  pre-school . CalmOceans  is just another sorry  relic from the past that can't adapt to change ,I'd rather run 100 zergs than sit around for three hours on a Friday night waiting for a dick assed healer to show up so that 39 other folks can complete a run

Also, have you ever considered that...

ROLE playing game

Might have something to do with playing roles?

 

The idea that everyone should be able to do whatever and ever whatever...it basically undermines the genre, and marginalizes creativity and tactics.

How this argument for abolishing a genre's core principles, in turn causing people to turd rage about the very BASIS of the genre, baffles me.  The more I think about it, this whole mole hill might have been avoided if ANet hadn't called it an RPG.

  Aeander

Elite Member

Joined: 7/15/11
Posts: 434

8/15/13 9:54:39 PM#69
Originally posted by Piechunks
Originally posted by Mahavishnu

GW2's combat is the best in any MMO and the main reason, why I cannot play any other MMO anymore. Y

 

Why precisely do you enjoy GW2s combat over WoWs combat?

Because WoW's combat is stationary and boring with little to no depth. It's literally so easy that you can use bot addons and afk.

 

At least Guild Wars 2 manages to provide an occasional challenge. If you try facerolling Liandri, high end Fractals, or Arah, you're not going to have a good time. 

  STYNKFYST

Novice Member

Joined: 5/27/13
Posts: 313

8/15/13 9:55:52 PM#70
Originally posted by Doogiehowser
Originally posted by STYNKFYST

GW2's combat is the most boring of all you mentioned huh?

So why are you posting this? It's completely obvious what you said is false even if it is as "opinion".

Oh...I get it. It's another "Holy Trinity" thread....gotcha.

Umm because that is the whole point of these forums? this is not a fan site though and if people dislike a certain topic they are free not to read. 

Read the rest and you'll see I answered my own question sparky.

  Arthasm

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/26/09
Posts: 747

8/15/13 10:10:25 PM#71
Originally posted by Aeander

 

At least Guild Wars 2 manages to provide an occasional challenge. If you try facerolling Liandri, high end Fractals, or Arah, you're not going to have a good time. 

Been there, done that. But it's your opinion, in mine it's facerool. Too bad I didn't realise earlier, just after epic fight of all epics fights ever with Zaithan, main villain.  

  dgarbini

Novice Member

Joined: 4/27/05
Posts: 186

8/15/13 10:20:31 PM#72

Watch some of the very skilled pvp videos.  The combat can be very engaging and tactical.  I have seen 2 take on a dozen ok level players and wipe the floor with them.  I myself have done a 2 v 5 and won, it was a blast.  So I would not call the combat alone boring or zerg.

 

Now dont get me wrong there are plenty of things to dislike about this game, and I have many complaints.  The game itself may be boring I get that as well.  Hell more variety in combat/skill/builds would be great I completely get that complaint.  But the combat by itself is fine.  Perhaps action combat is not for you.

  crashdx

Novice Member

Joined: 8/11/13
Posts: 55

8/15/13 10:46:39 PM#73
Originally posted by ee1213

Also, have you ever considered that...

ROLE playing game

Might have something to do with playing roles?

 

The idea that everyone should be able to do whatever and ever whatever...it basically undermines the genre, and marginalizes creativity and tactics.

How this argument for abolishing a genre's core principles, in turn causing people to turd rage about the very BASIS of the genre, baffles me.  The more I think about it, this whole mole hill might have been avoided if ANet hadn't called it an RPG.

 

  Except that GW2 has roles? I guess it just blows people minds that you don't sit in one spot and faceroll the same buttons over and over again and that you may actually have to switch your strategy on the fly.

  KhinRunite

Novice Member

Joined: 11/05/10
Posts: 897

8/15/13 10:52:36 PM#74
While zerging a world boss/champion can really be mindless, the latest trailer for WoW (Siege of Ogrimmar) showed planted players and bosses jabbing at their foot. That looked pretty boring to me too.
  Purutzil

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 2911

The Critical Hit Pretzel!

8/15/13 10:57:40 PM#75

While I do disagree that classes are 'all the same', I do agree with a lot of the rest. Combat is GW2s weakest point for certain. It becomes very monotonous very quickly. Events as you mention make this a LOT worst where it becomes a "press 1 key and ZZZ" mode. Unfortunately, this even carries onto more complex classes like Mesmer where it just feels so unrewarding and dull. There are games that do have few abilities that just feel more engaging and exciting such as neverwinter which executed far more simplistic combat much better, giving that 'feeling' of impact. 

 

I think its something that even die hard fans of GW2 can acknowledge that the combat isn't one of the strongest aspects (stronger then the story which can be VERY terrible at times, mixed with some good parts). Classes do feel concept wise interesting but unfortunately the gameplay just doesn't cut it out and it just really makes it about 'what concept do you think is the coolest' while executing things with only slight variation.

Sure, again, you don't need complex combat thats heavily skill based, I understand not everyone is hardcore like me, but it just lacks complexity AND it lacks that feeling of doing something, an issue that usually dungeon crawlers even like Diablo 3 as simplistic as it was with what you did just made it feel like I was doing a lot more and things were more meaningful. Its a shame to since if the combat was good, I feel even with an aim most probably wouldn't be into, the game would at least garnish a good amount of attention, even if other areas are typically lack luster a good combat system which is the games main focus would of made up for it, it just falls flat though.

 

Originally posted by dgarbini

Watch some of the very skilled pvp videos.  The combat can be very engaging and tactical.  I have seen 2 take on a dozen ok level players and wipe the floor with them.  I myself have done a 2 v 5 and won, it was a blast.  So I would not call the combat alone boring or zerg.

 

Problem with that, is you can say the same about that with other games as well. I've done it in games like Rift for example, and other games have far more tactical pvp where skill plays more part with action such as Tera (mmo style) or games like Dragon's Nest.

  Aadien

Novice Member

Joined: 6/19/07
Posts: 231

8/15/13 11:12:04 PM#76
Its a Carebear game, what do you expect from it? Its the ultra causal or causal games. Let them be , they dont want to try, they just want stuff handed to them, and then glee to their friends that they "worked" so hard for it. Ignorance is bliss
  STYNKFYST

Novice Member

Joined: 5/27/13
Posts: 313

8/15/13 11:15:45 PM#77
Originally posted by Aadien
Its a Carebear game, what do you expect from it? Its the ultra causal or causal games. Let them be , they dont want to try, they just want stuff handed to them, and then glee to their friends that they "worked" so hard for it. Ignorance is bliss

Ur an idiot. It's a game. And I'm willing to bet I would kick your sorry arse on any game. I love GW2 for what it is. make a game that you enjoy so I can destroy you.

  wsmar

Novice Member

Joined: 3/08/09
Posts: 122

8/15/13 11:19:10 PM#78
Originally posted by Purutzil

While I do disagree that classes are 'all the same', I do agree with a lot of the rest. Combat is GW2s weakest point for certain. It becomes very monotonous very quickly. Events as you mention make this a LOT worst where it becomes a "press 1 key and ZZZ" mode. Unfortunately, this even carries onto more complex classes like Mesmer where it just feels so unrewarding and dull. There are games that do have few abilities that just feel more engaging and exciting such as neverwinter which executed far more simplistic combat much better, giving that 'feeling' of impact. 

 

I think its something that even die hard fans of GW2 can acknowledge that the combat isn't one of the strongest aspects (stronger then the story which can be VERY terrible at times, mixed with some good parts). Classes do feel concept wise interesting but unfortunately the gameplay just doesn't cut it out and it just really makes it about 'what concept do you think is the coolest' while executing things with only slight variation.

Sure, again, you don't need complex combat thats heavily skill based, I understand not everyone is hardcore like me, but it just lacks complexity AND it lacks that feeling of doing something, an issue that usually dungeon crawlers even like Diablo 3 as simplistic as it was with what you did just made it feel like I was doing a lot more and things were more meaningful. Its a shame to since if the combat was good, I feel even with an aim most probably wouldn't be into, the game would at least garnish a good amount of attention, even if other areas are typically lack luster a good combat system which is the games main focus would of made up for it, it just falls flat though.

 

Originally posted by dgarbini

Watch some of the very skilled pvp videos.  The combat can be very engaging and tactical.  I have seen 2 take on a dozen ok level players and wipe the floor with them.  I myself have done a 2 v 5 and won, it was a blast.  So I would not call the combat alone boring or zerg.

 

Problem with that, is you can say the same about that with other games as well. I've done it in games like Rift for example, and other games have far more tactical pvp where skill plays more part with action such as Tera (mmo style) or games like Dragon's Nest.

You say you disagree about all the classes being the same, but you don't say why? I find that a little odd, but that might be because at the base of each class, they are all the same.

  aesperus

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 4849

8/15/13 11:35:10 PM#79

I guess some people are just determined to let everyone know just how little they understand GW2 combat.

Saying 'every class just focuses DPS' is a VERY clear sign of this. Things like crowd control, area control, mitigation, healing, proper use of stealth, etc. are all very important to the game. There's only 1 aspect of the game where combat is both 'zergy' and faceroll easy', and that's world bosses. As a few have already stated.

If you honestly believe that 5 man dungeons, fractals, sPvP, or WvW is 'zergy, non-tactical' combat, then you're either full of crap or playing the game at an extremely low lvl. Especially considering only 1 of those lets you get a large enough group to be considered 'zergy' (unless we are now calling 5 people a zerg). This issue keeps coming up, in spite of there being many videos out there that proves this to be completely false. I guess some people are more comfortable assuming that 'zerg = skill less', and that 'action combat is less dynamic than sitting in place pressing your DPS / threat / heal macros'.

I'm not even sure it's worth trying to explain to these people anymore, since they seem to have the logic of a brick wall. Just because some people choose to play the game by mashing the 1 key, or making the most boring build in the world. Doesn't mean that A) that's the only build available, B) it's even the best build you could be using, or C) that no one else actually uses tactics, or skilled gameplay. There's a lot of variety to the playstyles in this game, so I don't see why you would want you're limit yourself to the most limited (i.e. longbow ranger).

  crashdx

Novice Member

Joined: 8/11/13
Posts: 55

8/16/13 2:02:05 AM#80
Originally posted by aesperus

I guess some people are just determined to let everyone know just how little they understand GW2 combat.

Saying 'every class just focuses DPS' is a VERY clear sign of this. Things like crowd control, area control, mitigation, healing, proper use of stealth, etc. are all very important to the game. There's only 1 aspect of the game where combat is both 'zergy' and faceroll easy', and that's world bosses. As a few have already stated.

If you honestly believe that 5 man dungeons, fractals, sPvP, or WvW is 'zergy, non-tactical' combat, then you're either full of crap or playing the game at an extremely low lvl. Especially considering only 1 of those lets you get a large enough group to be considered 'zergy' (unless we are now calling 5 people a zerg). This issue keeps coming up, in spite of there being many videos out there that proves this to be completely false. I guess some people are more comfortable assuming that 'zerg = skill less', and that 'action combat is less dynamic than sitting in place pressing your DPS / threat / heal macros'.

I'm not even sure it's worth trying to explain to these people anymore, since they seem to have the logic of a brick wall. Just because some people choose to play the game by mashing the 1 key, or making the most boring build in the world. Doesn't mean that A) that's the only build available, B) it's even the best build you could be using, or C) that no one else actually uses tactics, or skilled gameplay. There's a lot of variety to the playstyles in this game, so I don't see why you would want you're limit yourself to the most limited (i.e. longbow ranger).

 

Funny thing. All these HARDCORE gamers don't even know what a Zerg is and that it's impossible for 5 people to be considered a "zerg" or rather "Zerg Rush" or in historical terms a "Blitz". I know what does look like a zerg though, 25+ people all mindlessly attacking a big bad that sounds more like a zerg to me by very definition.

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