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General Discussion  » With Advanced AI, Will EQN Be Too Difficult For Today's Modern Players?

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78 posts found
  Faelsun

Novice Member

Joined: 6/23/07
Posts: 482

8/15/13 10:19:10 PM#61

It doesnt matter over all. You can either have very good AI or very good script structure whatever. None of it means anything if the actual in game mechanics are bad. Now they scaled down GW2s initial AI after Beta3 because of constant griping I imagine this trend will most likely continue in EQN. Natrually with a skillbar of 8 very similar to GW2s weapon/skill system there will be some kind of abused dodge mechanic and people will just complain until they can abuse the dodge mechanic on trash mobs. 

So naturally AI being good is nice and all, but what is the AI going to be up against. A spammy zerg of questers smashing their instacast abilities? From what I can tell so far if they implement the faceroll combat system they have in mind, you could probably unleash a Balrog into town square with an IQ of 182 and it would die of ability spam in a few minutes. 

  Masterfuzzfuzz

Novice Member

Joined: 6/30/13
Posts: 176

8/16/13 7:27:04 AM#62

lolololol this could be the easiest question I've been asked all day.

 

NO.

It is actually catered to the casual/young/modern mmo player and it will be retardedly easy. Just like every other mmo in the last 5-7 years.

  Arcona

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/30/04
Posts: 1192

8/16/13 7:31:11 AM#63
Originally posted by Masterfuzzfuzz

lolololol this could be the easiest question I've been asked all day.

 

NO.

It is actually catered to the casual/young/modern mmo player and it will be retardedly easy. Just like every other mmo in the last 5-7 years.

and you know this how?

Time machine?  :)

As I see it there could be situations where people are missing a certain point or have to do a certain deed in the world to move to next tier, and since you cant alt-tab and look up where to find stuff, since the world is constantly changing and procedural generated... the whining will be extreme if the "hardcore" people cant figure out how to move to next tier fast enough :)

  Fusion

Old School

Joined: 5/21/03
Posts: 1364

8/16/13 7:37:30 AM#64

I'll judge when i see this so called "advanced AI", but if you mean the monsters setting up camps, disbanding, moving on and making ambushes. I think that's a nice new dynamic feature, but it's got nothing to do with AI.

"Advanced AI" is too complex for the scale of MMO's (untill they come up with an actual AI, but then we all f'ed! And it'd just be like an FFA-PVP game without any NPC's.. like CoD or BF3 )

And no, it won't be difficult.

 

Currently playing: -

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Dead and Buried: ESO, NWO, GW2, SWTOR, Darkfall, AO, AC2, Vanguard, CoH/V, EnB, EVE, Neocron, FE, EQ, EQ2, DAoC, FFXI, FFXIV, SWG, WoW, and billions of eastern junks!

  User Deleted
8/16/13 7:43:36 AM#65
I strongly doubt PVE will be all that difficult, smart AI or typically stupid AI. This isn't meant to be a hardcore game. I can still remember logging into EQ for the first time and getting totally owned by a freaking rat in the starter area. I sincerely doubt most modern players would stand for that. The real question is will it be fun? I think we have all played a bazillion MMORPGs by now and I can't help but feel the market audience is insanely tired of the same old mob grinding.  We have all done it ten years even if in many different class flavors. Some one really needs to open up MMORPG combat in a new way with a new pattern to the levels other than huge mobs covering the area. I am looking to see if EQN can shake it up some how.
  Galadourn

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/06/08
Posts: 1051

8/16/13 7:44:55 AM#66
If Bethesda can do it with Radiant AI in their TES games I don't see why SOE cant' develop a similar system.

http://kck.st/Xo38HT

  ltank

Novice Member

Joined: 9/19/04
Posts: 325

8/16/13 9:33:40 AM#67

I've read through pretty much every post in this thread and i think every one of you are misapplying the term "advanced AI". Most of you are trying to use that term to think that every single mob from the lowliest goblin to the meanest dragon are going to resemble highly scripted and difficult encounters in other games making the fight itself more challenging.

 

What I think SOE means by advanced AI is not really making the individual mechanics of PvE combat more difficult and advanced past what we've seen in other games; it is making the word feel more alive by giving the creatures in it motivations and options to satisfy their needs, allowing them to migrate around and seek out opportunities that satisfy the needs they are trying to meet. Think about the term "advanced AI" more as it applies to an ant colony sim, or real time strategy game or ecology simlulator.

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

8/16/13 9:37:14 AM#68
Originally posted by dejoblue

Will this drive away PVE players?

Are you kidding? And miss a change to pose? "This is the real hardcore game"?

That line's been successfully marketing titles for as long as...well, mmos.

 

The forum-strutting is already in gear, despite the title not actually existing yet, right? $$$!!

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 19094

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

8/16/13 10:01:39 AM#69
Originally posted by niceguy3978
Originally posted by Sojhin

Modern gamers are indeed not that good at gaming thus why the modern genre is so dumbed down.

Dont just take my word for it. Nintendo did a study showing that 90 percent of present 25 and under gamers cannot beat the first level of mario brothers.

 

http://www.p4rgaming.com/majority-of-gamers-today-cant-finish-level-1-in-super-mario-bros/

I find that very hard to believe as my 3 year old daughter can beat the first level of mario brothers.  I guess if they gave all of those playing the first level with an overdose of Lithium maybe.

well the real issue isn't that they don't finish because it's too challenging, but rather can't hold their interest long enough to bother finishing Level 1.

Makes sense to me that your 3 year old however can stick with it, seems to be geared towards here age bracket.

 

Arrogant, Dismissive, Elitist, you speak as if these are bad things?
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  HaixonEQ

Novice Member

Joined: 8/16/13
Posts: 3

8/16/13 2:57:21 PM#70
I'm hoping the AI is good.  If the game remembers what each of us has done and reacts accordingly, it will be easier for the types of players who can't figure out Mario Brothers and be challenging for the more experienced player. /crosses fingers.
  Dejoblue

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/11
Posts: 295

I'll give them heroics...and when everyone is super...no one will be.

 
OP  8/16/13 3:12:08 PM#71

I think something we are overlooking is that while there may be some advanced AI, they also have access to what buttons we are pushing. It IS a computer. It knows that we are a Tier 3 mage and that the last spell we cast cost X mana and we have y mana left and looking back through parses it sees a pattern of us using Z ability, so it shields itself for that ability.

 

My frost bolt has travel time it immediately casts a fire shield to absorb it.

 

Our tactics may be thrown out of the window. One of the difficult things for kiters in PVP is that...you cant kite other players, sure you can if they are idiots, a smart player runs the opposite direction or develops their own anti kiting tactic, NPCs usually go where we lead them.

 

Maybe we wont be able to pull mobs back, yea they come out see the group makeup and run back.

  Univers0

Novice Member

Joined: 8/20/13
Posts: 29

8/20/13 11:10:51 PM#72
Suppose instead of traditional boss encounter which has massive stats but acts in a predictable way, they go with a boss which has scaled down stats but adjusts on the fly or even a balanced group of intelligent mobs that creates a mirror match 6v6?   For variety's sake I would welcome it with open arms. 
  Masterfuzzfuzz

Novice Member

Joined: 6/30/13
Posts: 176

8/21/13 2:32:00 AM#73
Just the opposite. It is purposely designed (just like the rest of the game) to be intuitive, easy, and accessible. The game is about money, they are going to appeal to the largest possible crowd: the casuals.
  Rydeson

Elite Member

Joined: 3/05/07
Posts: 3342

8/21/13 2:38:38 AM#74
Originally posted by Masterfuzzfuzz
Just the opposite. It is purposely designed (just like the rest of the game) to be intuitive, easy, and accessible. The game is about money, they are going to appeal to the largest possible crowd: the casuals.

Not sure about that..  The reason I say that is because "TWITCH" combat is the minority of players..  This will be interesting to see how many actually stay to play after the one year anniversary.. I personally hate fast pace twitch after 15 minutes..  EQN will have no staying power for me., and I know all my friends that I game with are not fans of twitch either..

  Masterfuzzfuzz

Novice Member

Joined: 6/30/13
Posts: 176

8/21/13 2:42:10 AM#75
Originally posted by Rydeson
Originally posted by Masterfuzzfuzz
Just the opposite. It is purposely designed (just like the rest of the game) to be intuitive, easy, and accessible. The game is about money, they are going to appeal to the largest possible crowd: the casuals.

Not sure about that..  The reason I say that is because "TWITCH" combat is the minority of players..  This will be interesting to see how many actually stay to play after the one year anniversary.. I personally hate fast pace twitch after 15 minutes..  EQN will have no staying power for me., and I know all my friends that I game with are not fans of twitch either..

I'm not sure what you mean by twitch. You mean gw2 style spam all skills on cooldown? Or Tera style action combat? I hate the former and love the latter. I thought tera and neverwinter for that matter had great combat systems. I'll never go back to tab targeting. What kind of combat are you looking for

  Rydeson

Elite Member

Joined: 3/05/07
Posts: 3342

8/21/13 3:15:53 AM#76
Originally posted by Masterfuzzfuzz
Originally posted by Rydeson
Originally posted by Masterfuzzfuzz
Just the opposite. It is purposely designed (just like the rest of the game) to be intuitive, easy, and accessible. The game is about money, they are going to appeal to the largest possible crowd: the casuals.

Not sure about that..  The reason I say that is because "TWITCH" combat is the minority of players..  This will be interesting to see how many actually stay to play after the one year anniversary.. I personally hate fast pace twitch after 15 minutes..  EQN will have no staying power for me., and I know all my friends that I game with are not fans of twitch either..

I'm not sure what you mean by twitch. You mean gw2 style spam all skills on cooldown? Or Tera style action combat? I hate the former and love the latter. I thought tera and neverwinter for that matter had great combat systems. I'll never go back to tab targeting. What kind of combat are you looking for

     As a player that likes playing range dps and healer..  If I target YOU with my arrow, I will always be aimed your direction.. I do not have to worry about "CONE of fire" or other twitch skills like those you see in Planetside, Call of Duty, etc etc..  This is probably why many roles like Heals are GONE.. It's impossible to target and auto stay on target "friend or foe"..  I enjoy the ability to use my F1-F6 keys to target group members.. That will NOT be the case in EQN..  Let alone the pain in the ass melee combat where I have to constantly stay in range of mobs that move around like bunny rabbits..  NO thanks..  If they want to make combat OH SO REAL, then add back in stamina issues.. the more you bounce around the more tired you get, and eventually you'll be a SLUG wore out and an easy kill..   As it should be..   

  JaggaSpikes

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/21/06
Posts: 407

8/21/13 3:30:12 AM#77
"advanced AI" does not necessary mean "difficult AI". it could just as well make it easier by responding to player effectiveness.
  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10635

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

8/21/13 5:19:01 AM#78


Originally posted by Rydeson

Originally posted by Masterfuzzfuzz

Originally posted by Rydeson

Originally posted by Masterfuzzfuzz Just the opposite. It is purposely designed (just like the rest of the game) to be intuitive, easy, and accessible. The game is about money, they are going to appeal to the largest possible crowd: the casuals.
Not sure about that..  The reason I say that is because "TWITCH" combat is the minority of players..  This will be interesting to see how many actually stay to play after the one year anniversary.. I personally hate fast pace twitch after 15 minutes..  EQN will have no staying power for me., and I know all my friends that I game with are not fans of twitch either..
I'm not sure what you mean by twitch. You mean gw2 style spam all skills on cooldown? Or Tera style action combat? I hate the former and love the latter. I thought tera and neverwinter for that matter had great combat systems. I'll never go back to tab targeting. What kind of combat are you looking for
     As a player that likes playing range dps and healer..  If I target YOU with my arrow, I will always be aimed your direction.. I do not have to worry about "CONE of fire" or other twitch skills like those you see in Planetside, Call of Duty, etc etc..  This is probably why many roles like Heals are GONE.. It's impossible to target and auto stay on target "friend or foe"..  I enjoy the ability to use my F1-F6 keys to target group members.. That will NOT be the case in EQN..  Let alone the pain in the ass melee combat where I have to constantly stay in range of mobs that move around like bunny rabbits..  NO thanks..  If they want to make combat OH SO REAL, then add back in stamina issues.. the more you bounce around the more tired you get, and eventually you'll be a SLUG wore out and an easy kill..   As it should be..   



Global Agenda required aim targeting for healing and it worked out fine. At least in the 10v10 or 10 man 'raids'. I'm not sure how well that would work in a 40v40 or even a 40 man raid.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

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