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News & Features Discussion  » [Review] Firefall: The Beginning of Something Great

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98 posts found
  wowclonez

Novice Member

Joined: 7/24/13
Posts: 77

8/14/13 10:48:51 AM#21
Sounds fair, thanks.
  Grakulen

Staff

Joined: 3/07/12
Posts: 381

8/14/13 10:55:05 AM#22

Originally posted by Ozmodan

It is a fun game, but it has a ways to go to get those scores.  Lately game reviews on this site seem to be pandering to the advertising budget instead of actually giving a fair review.



Do you really believe that? I mean we gave Neverwinter a 7 and right now I see a Neverwinter ad on the site. We panned Scarlett Blade with a 4.7 when it had ads all over the site. Do you really believe that we get paid for Cs Ds and Fs? This was a C. I'd be embarrassed by that score if I received it as a student or developer. I drop links to our Metacritic aggregate on twitter all the time. Like Bill said, we are low. If people are paying us off they aren't getting their moneys worth and Bill owes me some checks!


  User Deleted
8/14/13 11:24:23 AM#23
Payoffs aside 7.7 is to high. I think expectations were much greater than reality. F2p does not mean a game automatically gets a 10, I simply disagree with the innovation, but I guess this game was in beta like ten years ago so maybe we should keep that in mind. Coincidentally I would have score Neverwinter much higher if it wasnt for the cash shop probably around a 9.
  Volkon

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/14/10
Posts: 3804

Facts do not require fiction for balance.

8/14/13 11:28:00 AM#24

Originally posted by BillMurphy


Originally posted by Ozmodan

Completely agree, what is so innovative about this game, very little!  The value is a bit ludicrous too.  


It is a fun game, but it has a ways to go to get those scores.  Lately game reviews on this site seem to be pandering to the advertising budget instead of actually giving a fair review.



Normally, I'd not respond to this kind of comment... but come on.  Go look at our recent scores. To think that ANYONE would pay for the terrible ratings of games we've reviewed lately is just ludicrous.  


Firefall's whopping 7.7 is about one of the highest the site's seen all year, and while I think it's a fair score and reflects my experience with the game, it's likely not exactly what Mr. Kern was hoping for.  Of the several dozen titles we've reviewed this year alone, only two have scored a flat 8 and none have scored higher than that.  Our review average, compared to other sites, is actually below the industry average. Just look at Metacritic if you don't believe me. Our average score over the past 80 reviews we've published is a 67/100... in other words a D grade for the industry.


I deal with publishers, developers, and PR folks all the time who think we're "too harsh", but it seems we're not harsh enough for some.


But yeah, I'll go back to rolling in my pay-off cash while naked and giggling now.


/snark



 


Odd place to ask this Bill, so forgive me for that, but have you considered doing a "1 year later" re-review for GW2?


Oderint, dum metuant.

  sheller

Novice Member

Joined: 8/03/13
Posts: 12

8/14/13 11:31:26 AM#25
A fair review, but I wish you guys had waited for the next milestone patch on the 20th. Being that it's only six days away I find that this review could have been delayed to give players a more accurate understanding of what's in the game.
  Rockinw311

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/20/10
Posts: 8

8/14/13 11:38:27 AM#26
Originally posted by Grakulen

Originally posted by Ozmodan

It is a fun game, but it has a ways to go to get those scores.  Lately game reviews on this site seem to be pandering to the advertising budget instead of actually giving a fair review.


Do you really believe that? I mean we gave Neverwinter a 7 and right now I see a Neverwinter ad on the site. We panned Scarlett Blade with a 4.7 when it had ads all over the site. Do you really believe that we get paid for Cs Ds and Fs? This was a C. I'd be embarrassed by that score if I received it as a student or developer. I drop links to our Metacritic aggregate on twitter all the time. Like Bill said, we are low. If people are paying us off they aren't getting their moneys worth and Bill owes me some checks!

I believe a good part of the issue is with the rating system itself, and people's (including this site's own) perceptions about what scores represent. For example, both you and Bill are referencing a traditional 'school' A-F grading scale. On that type of scale, a 7.7 means something very different than what others may expect for that same score on a different scale.

 

Even on the traditional 'school' grading scale, what classifies as an 'F' can vary by a fairly significant amount (given the already narrow band of what falls under an A through D). In some schools that I've attended, anything below a 70 was an F. However, in the majority of schools I've attended, anything below a 60 was considered an F.

 

What I, and I believe at least SOME others, would traditionally expect for a rating scale is more along the lines of a traditional bell curve. For example, if something is straight 'middle of the pack', or 'average', then it would be a 5 (out of 10). Given the concept of the bell curve, and the very expectation that most things are average, 5 would tend to be the starting point, and where most scores would fall. Scores would be higher or lower from there based on how they relate to every other one out there.

 

From there, variations from that center '5' score have 2 paths. Under the first path, the curve is fairly evenly distributed, where you'd have roughly the same number of 6s as you do 10s, or 3s, or etc.. Under the other path, the further you get away from the center towards either extreme (i.e. a 1 or a 10), the more rare it becomes for something to receive one of those scores. So under the 2nd path, a score of a 10 would be something that almost NEVER happens, as it represents that something is essentially the best that's out there, and better than everything else in the industry.

 

So as you can see, the lack of clarity for what the rating system itself represents is a pretty big issue. If people are expecting the 'non-school' rating systems and are constantly seeing 6s, 7s or 8s (and within those reviews, category ratings as high as 10s), and even your examples of 'really bad' (yes, paraphrasing here) games like Scarlett Blade are getting 'middle of the pack' scores of 4.7, it's not a far stretch at all, under a system like that, that people could assume your ratings are influenced by advertising budgets

 

That said, if what you and Bill are saying is that your ratings are using the 'school based' model, making that explanation more upfront, so that people have no misconception about what a 7.7 or 4.7 means, would go a LONG way (including differentiating which of the 2 different 'school based' models you're using).

 

To make it even clearer though, if both you and Bill are referencing an A through F rating scale, why even use numbers to begin with, as it just creates all of the confusion and misconceptions noted above???

 
  mmoguy43

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/31/09
Posts: 2255

8/14/13 11:50:29 AM#27

Can't please everyone and be harsh enough


wtf?


Ignore them. The review is more accurate than their depictions of any game in existence.


 


  cnutemp

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/01/12
Posts: 212

8/14/13 11:58:51 AM#28

My biggest grip with the game is that there is no sense of accomplishment.  Defend a section of the map for a few hours to clear out chosen? Don't go for a lunch break because if you do you will get booted out and placed into another random server world with no way to get back to the world you made all that progress on.

I would also like to see player made bases to add more sense of accomplishment.

  MassMan

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/23/06
Posts: 9

8/14/13 12:00:23 PM#29

Ahem... As a gaming news site, how can mmorpg.com not even mention something as relevant as Red 5 Studios failing to deliver on a $1,000,000 dollar Press Release? It's even here on mmorpg.com as well: http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/setView/news/gameId/566/showArticle/25278


“Red 5 is dedicated to supporting the future of eSports and we believe that creating a more compelling experience for participants and spectators will further the cause of competitive gaming”, said Morgan Romine, eSports Maven of Red 5 Studios. “The newly launched eSports Toolkit is just the tip of the iceburg. We will be supporting this initiative with our Mobile Gaming Unit this fall and providing a huge payout for elite competitive gamers in 2013”.


It shows a severe lack of trustworthyness when a company wants to generate publicity by announcing $1,000,000 price money, and they silently change it to Zero dollars.


  BelegStrongbow

Novice Member

Joined: 11/10/08
Posts: 282

8/14/13 12:06:03 PM#30

Originally posted by MassMan

Ahem... As a gaming news site, how can mmorpg.com not even mention something as relevant as Red 5 Studios failing to deliver on a $1,000,000 dollar Press Release? It's even here on mmorpg.com as well: http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/setView/news/gameId/566/showArticle/25278




“Red 5 is dedicated to supporting the future of eSports and we believe that creating a more compelling experience for participants and spectators will further the cause of competitive gaming”, said Morgan Romine, eSports Maven of Red 5 Studios. “The newly launched eSports Toolkit is just the tip of the iceburg. We will be supporting this initiative with our Mobile Gaming Unit this fall and providing a huge payout for elite competitive gamers in 2013”.




It shows a severe lack of trustworthyness when a company wants to generate publicity by announcing $1,000,000 price money, and they silently change it to Zero dollars.



I agree with this guy,  


but I also agree with this review.  I really am hoping for this game to blow up with content and features.  but I lack hope,  I think they ran out of cash and are running on fumes atm.  Or else they wouldnt have released the open beta with cash shop.


  Torgamatic

Novice Member

Joined: 8/27/06
Posts: 7

8/14/13 12:19:20 PM#31

Love the game myself , find it very addicting. Current 30% off frames has me leveling like a mad man to unlock as many for free as possible. Score is fair, given all the conditions stated. NEW content I hope is coming soon. Have only been playing PvE content so cant comment on PvP . The CHOSEN (bag guys) seem to have been bumped up a bit. With a good turnout the INVASION (world event of a city being attacked) almost was a victory for the chosen.... we most always kick but.


See you in game I hope,


 


DONBLAS.


 


  Mtibbs1989

Elite Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 2230

8/14/13 12:26:40 PM#32
Oops didn't mean to post this.


Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

  Gruug

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/08
Posts: 1093

The more you know, the more you know you don't know.

8/14/13 12:42:43 PM#33

"Value = 10" ?? There is no monetary value in something that is suppose to be "free".


 


Also, someone said they "made a point of buying Red Beans once a month". This reminds me that this whole "f2p" thing is in fact just a sort of scam. Recently, I as reminded of a term that is used to describe such scam attempts...."ding joint". In a ding joint, mostly associated with carnivals, you have a tent or attraction that is offered to the public as "free". All kinds of little amusement items are sprinkled throughout the tent that are to keep the public interested. Then at the exit there is a bowl. Above the bowl is a sign which says "Donations". The point of the bowl is to get people to feel guilty and "contribute" something for the show. No one forces your hand into your wallet but the expectation is still there.


Let's party like it is 1863!

  Ginaz

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/01/07
Posts: 1632

8/14/13 12:44:48 PM#34
Originally posted by Grakulen

Originally posted by Ozmodan

It is a fun game, but it has a ways to go to get those scores.  Lately game reviews on this site seem to be pandering to the advertising budget instead of actually giving a fair review.


Do you really believe that? I mean we gave Neverwinter a 7 and right now I see a Neverwinter ad on the site. We panned Scarlett Blade with a 4.7 when it had ads all over the site. Do you really believe that we get paid for Cs Ds and Fs? This was a C. I'd be embarrassed by that score if I received it as a student or developer. I drop links to our Metacritic aggregate on twitter all the time. Like Bill said, we are low. If people are paying us off they aren't getting their moneys worth and Bill owes me some checks!

You can't really blame people for mistrusting "game journalists".  There's been a few high profile cases where developer money has influenced editorial content and the whole industry/journalist relationship is pretty incestuous.  That being said, the reviews here have been better lately and while I don't agree with the review score, esp. the score for innovation, it's not completely over the top.  I would have given it a 6 at the very most.

Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?

Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.

  orbitxo

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/25/06
Posts: 1006

8/14/13 12:49:37 PM#35
Originally posted by sheller
A fair review, but I wish you guys had waited for the next milestone patch on the 20th. Being that it's only six days away I find that this review could have been delayed to give players a more accurate understanding of what's in the game.

agree with you on this.

 

also id like to see a re-visited review on GW2 (on their 1 year anniversay) now with their new direction. yes , new direction.

  Mtibbs1989

Elite Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 2230

8/14/13 12:57:24 PM#36

 The reviews from MMORPG.com employees are getting worse with each review. The same company who gave best in show to a tech demo and concept art over actual games at E3 is one of the best examples of how little they really even care about these games. While Firefall is fun on the surface it does indeed have quite a lot of issues that need to be clarified.

 Firefall has quite a lot of issues going for it that's not taken into account in this review. From the severe graphical pop-ins while running through the game and the low texture resolutions that I've been experiencing even at the max settings makes me wonder how they rated it as a pro. To the lack of progression, seriously? How one rates the progression system in this game as "fantastic" is beyond me. It's very basic especially when compared to many other MMOs.

 The only thing in the review I can agree with is the combat. But how hard is it to create an excellent shooter? It's not like companies have to deal with a lot of highly sophisticated attack animations.

 The only thing I can't speak about is the crafting as I usually don't craft, I can only take their word on that part because I haven't touched it since I started playing Firefall.

 This game is also about as social as Defiance was when I played it. In fact this game might actually be worse  than Defiance because I rarely every see anyone in Firefall. When I'm playing Firefall it's essentially a ghost town (remember that the game is completely based around public events).

 I'm also seriously scratching my head with the innovation rating which is a 9. What did they innovate? What has this MMO brought to the table that previous games never thought of? The public quests aren't innovative, shooting isn't innovative,the progression isn't innovative, even the types of weapons aren't innovated. Sure, Public events are the only things available in the game at the moment but that doesn't make it more innovated than anything else. I just want to clarify something to the MMORPG.com employees for future use:

 

Definition of INNOVATION

1: the introduction of something new

2: a new idea, method, or device : novelty


 

 [mod edit]


Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

  MumboJumbo

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/18/10
Posts: 3068

Veni, Vidi, Converti

8/14/13 1:02:00 PM#37

Got to admit, Firefall looks very interesting to me. [mod edit]


>"Red 5 has really turned a focus towards the game’s open world content, its invasions, events, and the idea that the players will ultimately decide what parts of the world are uncovered for further exploration in the future.  We’re going to shake this review up a little bit and jump right to the Longevitycategory on that note."


THIS^ is what Red-5 need to concentrate on it seems to me: Open World + PvP plus progress.


  SidQFT

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/15/13
Posts: 50

Playing: nothing

8/14/13 1:22:21 PM#38
i like the game so far but gets boring fast, not much a pve guy.  also not much of an instance arena pvp guy either.  im waiting for the open world pvp!!!  this would be my game of games if they ever implement it.  from what they have promised - base building/base defense/territory fighting/etc etc...  but until then the game is kinda....well.........how should i put it...........meh.
  Wraithone

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/09/04
Posts: 3546

If you can't kill it, don't make it mad.

8/14/13 1:42:56 PM#39

Thanks Bill, thats a fair review, all things considered.  No doubt the haters and trolls will be howling for blood, but then thats to be expected.  I'd like to see some of them attempt to deal with the types of HIGHLY complex software and hardware thats required to make a game like Firefall (or other high level MMO's) function.

When all is said and done, its not the haters or trolls who will have a say about the games future.  Its really in the hands of Red5 and those who share their vision of the games potential.   If they can effectively communicate and share that vision, with enough people, then the game will be a success.

Not having any real taste for Kool Aid, I've been of two minds about the game for the more than a year and a half that I've spent in it.  On the one hand, there is the games potential to be something really great. On the other is the continuing sequence of mistakes and fumbles, that have taken place.  But thats all part of the learning process, when dealing with software and hardware of this complexity.  So, I'm hoping for the best.

Over all, I'm quite looking forward to what Red5 adds to the game over the rest of this year, and into next.

  Aplus007

Novice Member

Joined: 4/09/13
Posts: 15

8/14/13 2:05:08 PM#40
This is a Beta game....at Stage 1....come the fuck on....really?
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