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General Discussion  » How can the console be bad for EQN?

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142 posts found
  GregorMcgregor

Novice Member

Joined: 2/16/13
Posts: 226

8/14/13 8:24:59 AM#21

We don't want the KKK* in our MMOs! They should have been PC only from the word go.

The anti-social disease is already killing MMOs without brats with no keyboards spurting "Faster! Pick me! now! more!" on vent or TS. :(

 

*Konsole Kiddies Klub! ;)

No trials. No tricks. No traps. No EU-RP server. NO THANKS!


...10% Benevolence, 90% Arrogance in my case!

  donpopuki

Novice Member

Joined: 4/06/12
Posts: 603

8/14/13 8:28:52 AM#22
Ah the old pc versus console debate. You guys realize EQOA and FFXI both came out on consoles right? Besides they are taking a pc first approach. Any adjustments made for console on the pc side will be minor.
  jtcgs

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/04
Posts: 1843

8/14/13 8:38:15 AM#23
Originally posted by Burdoc101
As a PC gamer I see no problem with EQN being on consoles as long as EQN is focused on PC first. New consoles are just going to be glorified PCs with controllers. Dave Georgeson has stated that they are looking at different approaches to the title but he is focusing on PC first. A broader player base, introducing more people to the mmo world and providing revenue for the game. How can the console be bad for EQN?

 An MMO designed around the PC makes a bad console MMO.

An MMO designed around a console makes a bad PC MMO.

Its just the facts. They know not all console owners are going to get a keyboard/mouse so they must make it so it can be played with a controller and that vastly limits the games design/depth. While there will be plenty of "shut up and take my money" types adding to the sales and the "its new so ill play it no matter what" types that will add players, how many players will either never buy or stop playing because of it?

Need to face the fact that the vast majority of MMO players in the world, those that play/played WoW, Lineage, GW and the other most popular MMOs (over 2 million players) are not into the action combat, FPS style MMO games. So making EQN a console game is basically choosing to go with the smaller niche market.

“I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  User Deleted
8/14/13 8:52:46 AM#24
Originally posted by jtcgs
Originally posted by Burdoc101
As a PC gamer I see no problem with EQN being on consoles as long as EQN is focused on PC first. New consoles are just going to be glorified PCs with controllers. Dave Georgeson has stated that they are looking at different approaches to the title but he is focusing on PC first. A broader player base, introducing more people to the mmo world and providing revenue for the game. How can the console be bad for EQN?

 An MMO designed around the PC makes a bad console MMO.

An MMO designed around a console makes a bad PC MMO.

Its just the facts. They know not all console owners are going to get a keyboard/mouse so they must make it so it can be played with a controller and that vastly limits the games design/depth. While there will be plenty of "shut up and take my money" types adding to the sales and the "its new so ill play it no matter what" types that will add players, how many players will either never buy or stop playing because of it?

Need to face the fact that the vast majority of MMO players in the world, those that play/played WoW, Lineage, GW and the other most popular MMOs (over 2 million players) are not into the action combat, FPS style MMO games. So making EQN a console game is basically choosing to go with the smaller niche market.

 

What does the projected growth of this niche market look like? How does it compare to the pc market niche pc market of mmo players?
  st3v3b0

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/09/04
Posts: 135

8/14/13 9:18:54 AM#25
For me it brings in a crowd of gamer's that I prefer to steer clear of.  Hopefully console and PC players will each have their own set of servers and not cross.
  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3710

8/14/13 9:19:01 AM#26

More people own PC then they do consoles. So designing a UI or game to function on a console and they sell it to PC users means their product is inferior to all the other MMOs designed for the PC. Play DCU on a PC and the UI drives you nuts. Play FF14 on a console and try and do simple things like navigate a map, again drives you nuts. 

2nd reason is when a new console launches it close in tech to an above average PC, not a gaming PC just a regular rig but consoles tech dont change for 5-8 years and PC quickly out pace the old console. So updates need to be scaled to the console and the PC gamer gets screwed. I get CPUs are getting a roof become of heat but there is many ways to get by that like motherboards that can use more then one CPU, so a PC with 2-4 4 core CPUs. PCs is the way to go with MMOs. 

  User Deleted
8/14/13 9:24:31 AM#27

Nothing has to be "dumbed down" ...  That almost sounds like a term that applies more to the player base than anything related to the game.   Oh and to be clear.. that remark was not directed at anyone on these forums... you can simply log into any PC only MMO and see what I mean for yourself.

 

The one thing I will totally agree with is the controls and to me that shouldn't be a problem.. other than having to take the time to recode parts of the console version for that.   Final Fantasy XI was likely hard to play without a controller... However, even *I* a person that has a great dislike of consoles went out and bought a controller and found the game very easy to navigate...  I've tried a few other games (including FF XIV) with a controller and never had that same feeling in any of them.

 

^^ There certainly wasn't any lack of option layers in FF XI when I used a controller.. which is why I always have found the "8 slots" means console argument rather amusing.   With a controller I was switching around between more actions/menu's in FF XI with greater ease than any PC only MMO I've played.     The obvious thing here is that a PC version can be coded to work in the way we are used to and a console port could just as easily be recoded to work with a controller.   The fact that most companies are lazy doesn't mean ports are bad.

 

I guess you could argue about the GPU level PhysX support and how the PS4 won't be able to support it unless they have some option to add in a card.   Tho I'm not really sure how much of a difference one would notice without it.. probably not much.  I am pretty sure that Nvidia rep that showed up at SOE Live.. would be happier if every PS4 shipped with Nvidia graphics tho...

 

*edit* Oh and I wanted to also say... When I log into a new or existing MMO the playerbase is so bad (unless the game is dead) that I can't see how it could remotely be possible that console gamers could be worse.

  User Deleted
8/14/13 9:25:32 AM#28
You dont need a 650 horsepower turbo jet fuel injected pc to play mmorpgs
  jesusjuice69

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/07/13
Posts: 293

8/14/13 9:32:50 AM#29
Originally posted by Vutar
Originally posted by Burdoc101
To your edit. But they are specifically targeting PC gamers first. The developers already stated its PC first and foremost. After the PC product is out then they will look at the possibility of consoles later.

 

What they say and what they are actually doing is two different things. They aren't going to come out and say "ya we are focusing this on consoles" look at the backlash they are already getting just from people reading between the lines.

It would make absolutely no sense to build a game for PC first and then maybe port it to console. If it were truly built for PC, a console could never handle it. The only chance EQnext ever has of making it to console is if it is being built from the ground up with that in mind. The combat and graphics tell me that is exactly what is happening.

That isn't really true, at least not right now.

The consoles are at about the Nvidia 650 ti to 660 level, which is low-mid grade gaming PC graphics.

That won't increase over time though, so in 2 years it will be horribly outdated, but as of right now they are decent systems compared to low end gaming PCs.

 

I am not a fan of MMOs going to console, but lets keep the facts straight!

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

More people own PC then they do consoles. So designing a UI or game to function on a console and they sell it to PC users means their product is inferior to all the other MMOs designed for the PC. Play DCU on a PC and the UI drives you nuts. Play FF14 on a console and try and do simple things like navigate a map, again drives you nuts. 

2nd reason is when a new console launches it close in tech to an above average PC, not a gaming PC just a regular rig but consoles tech dont change for 5-8 years and PC quickly out pace the old console. So updates need to be scaled to the console and the PC gamer gets screwed. I get CPUs are getting a roof become of heat but there is many ways to get by that like motherboards that can use more then one CPU, so a PC with 2-4 4 core CPUs. PCs is the way to go with MMOs. 

You should probably never comment on anything tech related again.
  syntax.error

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/27/04
Posts: 2982

C64 Cracked Warez Intros FTW

8/14/13 9:45:55 AM#30
Originally posted by Burdoc101
As a PC gamer I see no problem with EQN being on consoles as long as EQN is focused on PC first. New consoles are just going to be glorified PCs with controllers. Dave Georgeson has stated that they are looking at different approaches to the title but he is focusing on PC first. A broader player base, introducing more people to the mmo world and providing revenue for the game. How can the console be bad for EQN?

 

Let me just say this..

I like DCUO (I really do), but we already know what kind of game DC Universe Online is and do we want our next EQ mmo to play like DCUO, with that said...

Get ready for a user interface that utilizes a game controller with action packed Disney style graphics mmo built around a fantasy setting.

 

  Naqaj

Novice Member

Joined: 7/24/09
Posts: 1681

8/14/13 9:49:41 AM#31
Originally posted by Nanfoodle

More people own PC then they do consoles. 

How many of those are low-powered office/facebook/media machines from BestBuy, considerably weaker than a PS4/XBone, and not even remotely powerful enough to run a demanding game?

  Naqaj

Novice Member

Joined: 7/24/09
Posts: 1681

8/14/13 9:58:12 AM#32
Originally posted by 7imelord

I like DCUO (I really do), but we already know what kind of game DC Universe Online is and do we want our next EQ mmo to play like DCUO, with that said...

 

Get ready for a user interface that utilizes a game controller with action packed Disney style graphics mmo built around a fantasy setting.

Despite the action combat control scheme, DCUO is built on the exact same MMO-tropes that make up the dozens of generic themepark MMORPGs on PC. The platforms capability wasn't the deciding factor there.

 

I don't have a problem with an MMO that finally figures out how to get rid of the interface so I can actually focus on well-designed combat mechanics, don't have a problem with Disney style graphics either, that includes Pixar after all, and fantasy setting .. not exactly a dealbraker for an MMO.

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3710

8/14/13 9:59:17 AM#33
Originally posted by Naqaj
Originally posted by Nanfoodle

More people own PC then they do consoles. 

How many of those are low-powered office/facebook/media machines from BestBuy, considerably weaker than a PS4/XBone, and not even remotely powerful enough to run a demanding game?

XB1 to standard PC now, not many. 2-3 years from XB1 launch most on par, 3-5 years later most PC are more powerful then XB1 and the MMO scaled to play on XB1 is now hindered and so are the PC gamers playing that game. Now 6-8 years later Microsoft comes out with a new console and PC gamers have long ago dropped the game thats scaled to a generation of tech that has no hope. Dont get me wrong, one day consoles and PC will be so close in tech it wont matter. One day 8 years of tech will be minor upgrades but we are not there yet.

  jesusjuice69

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/07/13
Posts: 293

8/14/13 10:04:56 AM#34
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Naqaj
Originally posted by Nanfoodle

More people own PC then they do consoles. 

How many of those are low-powered office/facebook/media machines from BestBuy, considerably weaker than a PS4/XBone, and not even remotely powerful enough to run a demanding game?

XB1 to standard PC now, not many. 2-3 years from XB1 launch most on par, 3-5 years later most PC are more powerful then XB1 and the MMO scaled to play on XB1 is now hindered and so are the PC gamers playing that game. Now 6-8 years later Microsoft comes out with a new console and PC gamers have long ago dropped the game thats scaled to a generation of tech that has no hope. Dont get me wrong, one day consoles and PC will be so close in tech it wont matter. One day 8 years of tech will be minor upgrades but we are not there yet.

An Xbox1 or PS4 is way better for gaming than you standard PC.  Your standard PC either has a very low end graphics card not suitable for gaming or it has APU integrated graphics built onto the processor. 

I will say this one more time.  

Xbox1 & PS4 has an APU which is equivalent to about a Nvidia 650 Ti to 660.    That is low-mid range Gaming PC range.

Stop talking about tech.

  Dullahan

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/20/05
Posts: 798

Death to Themepark.

8/14/13 10:09:58 AM#35
Xbox1 ps4 about on par with my rig in 2008.

Played EQ, UO, DAoC, AO, WoW, EQII, Vanguard, Ryzom, Darkfall, Warhammer, Rift, MO, Tera, DFUW, Age of Wushu, NW2, ESO, ArcheAge and many others I don't remember or care to admit.
-
Awaiting The Repopulation, Camelot Unchained & Shroud of the Avatar.
-
Don't be ignorant. Get an MMO education!

  jesusjuice69

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/07/13
Posts: 293

8/14/13 10:14:59 AM#36
Originally posted by Dullahan
Xbox1 ps4 about on par with my rig in 2008.

Interesting, so you had a Geforce 660 & 8 Core CPU in 2008?  You could have sold that PC to AMD for a 10 million dollars.

Stop talking shit, when you don't know what you are talking about.

  User Deleted
8/14/13 10:16:15 AM#37
Originally posted by Dullahan
Xbox1 ps4 about on par with my rig in 2008.

 

With that said and judging from the games on your sig you say you have played, I would say your someone that would like to use a lawn mower to cut hair.
  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3710

8/14/13 10:24:32 AM#38
Originally posted by jesusjuice69
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Naqaj
Originally posted by Nanfoodle

More people own PC then they do consoles. 

How many of those are low-powered office/facebook/media machines from BestBuy, considerably weaker than a PS4/XBone, and not even remotely powerful enough to run a demanding game?

XB1 to standard PC now, not many. 2-3 years from XB1 launch most on par, 3-5 years later most PC are more powerful then XB1 and the MMO scaled to play on XB1 is now hindered and so are the PC gamers playing that game. Now 6-8 years later Microsoft comes out with a new console and PC gamers have long ago dropped the game thats scaled to a generation of tech that has no hope. Dont get me wrong, one day consoles and PC will be so close in tech it wont matter. One day 8 years of tech will be minor upgrades but we are not there yet.

An Xbox1 or PS4 is way better for gaming than you standard PC.  Your standard PC either has a very low end graphics card not suitable for gaming or it has APU integrated graphics built onto the processor. 

I will say this one more time.  

Xbox1 & PS4 has an APU which is equivalent to about a Nvidia 650 Ti to 660.    That is low-mid range Gaming PC range.

Stop talking about tech.

Reread my post, I said not many and the problem is not now for most gamers. Problem is a few years from now. As for hard core PC gamers its a problem now because their rig in a year or two from now will blow PS4 and XB1 out of the water and the updates will be scaled to a crappy console. 

  CrazKanuk

Elite Member

Joined: 10/06/09
Posts: 1596

8/14/13 10:26:41 AM#39

My biggest issue with console ports is control scheme. Here's my suggestion for SOE on porting EQN to console..... Make use of mouse and keyboard support!!!!! 

 

Instead of trying to port a game designed for play on a PC over to a console and map keys to buttons, simply keep the controls the same, tell the user that the gaming experience is optimized for mouse & keyboard. Shoot, many people may not even realize it's an option. 

 

If you wanted to get really, really aggressive, just remove controller support altogether other than for menu navigation. I know that seems a bit extreme, but the port to controllers is always the limiting factor of RPGs on console. 

 

Sony actually has an opportunity to redefine how we use our consoles for gaming and also open the door for better MMOs to be created, because something created for a console is always dealing with known hardware, so no mucking around with compatibility issues, etc. 

Crazkanuk

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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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  Drakynn

Novice Member

Joined: 3/02/08
Posts: 2051

8/14/13 10:30:29 AM#40

The reasons for there being not many console MMOs are not hardware or controller issues,current gen consoles could easily run a version of any MMO currently out there and the controls could be adapted to a gamepad easily,they are more versatile than many seem to think,without dumbing down.

The reasons are wholly to do with Microsoft,Sony and Nintendo's past  policies  on downloadable content and patching over their networks.Policies which have no been loosened up if not dropped.

I'm saying this as a guy who's been using computers as my main gaming platform since the commodore Vic 20,Amstrad cpc 464,amiga and then to PCs only dabbling in consoles occasionally.

PC's will always hold a tech advantage over consoles,does multitasking much better and of course nothing beats a keyboard for communicating tot he general populace in game.But consoles have a much vaster consumer base for games plain and simple,much bigger than the high end PC marketplace.You can't blame publishers and devs wanting some of that pie.

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