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EverQuest Next

EverQuest Next 

General Discussion  » SOE Please don't kill healing.

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113 posts found
  solochoowookie

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/25/13
Posts: 35

 
OP  8/13/13 1:42:40 PM#1

Hi.

My name is Chris, and I am a healer. Healers, I love to play them. I know that is abhorrent behavior for many of you, but I love it. My EQ Next fervor is tainted with fear. Fear they don’t want me or my kind.

I am excited about EQ Next in a big way, but I am also concerned the multiclass system will be much like GW2 and take a crap on anyone who wants to heal. I really wanted to play that game, but it seemed at every turn the dev team put things in place to keep my kind out. DPS Wars was no fun for us support class gamers.

It is sad, but ultimately “I am afraid my play style is now considered niche and I won’t have a place in the new EQ.”

One of the rules in table tops through to MMOS, has always been “Don’t leave the Cleric behind.”, but it seems the new games are doing just that.

I believe in creative destruction, am interested in the new AI, love SOEmote, but accept when things change some things might go away. I am still sadden though.

I still want to heal. In this game. Please SOE, let me heal.

My name is Chris, and I am healer.

  st3v3b0

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/09/04
Posts: 124

8/13/13 1:48:39 PM#2
Originally posted by solochoowookie

One of the rules in table tops through to MMOS, has always been “Don’t leave the Cleric behind.”, but it seems the new games are doing just that.

And what if there is no "Cleric" online to heal my group?  Then what...  Sit around waiting for someone to log on or risk the experience on a PUG "healer"?

Quit fearing change.  Change is necessary to evolve into better situations.  With that being said, I do not want the ability of being a certain role to go away, but I do think it needs to evolve so that if that one role is not available it doesn't inconvenience other people.  Done right, the removal of trinity can be a good thing for MMO's.

  Justsomenoob

Novice Member

Joined: 10/20/10
Posts: 869

8/13/13 1:52:09 PM#3

I'm sure there'll still be plenty of abilities that heal people that you can use.

 

 

  solochoowookie

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/25/13
Posts: 35

 
OP  8/13/13 1:53:37 PM#4
Originally posted by st3v3b0
Done right, the removal of trinity can be a good thing for MMO's.

This is the root of my concern. I have yet to see it done. I have seen it removed, but not done right.

  ElRenmazuo

Elite Member

Joined: 10/28/06
Posts: 3834

8/13/13 2:00:21 PM#5
I think the game should have classes with abilities that specializes more in healing than other classes with standard healing mechanics.  Make them important and beneficial to other players, just dont make them "absolutely" necessary for every single group oriented content.  Like the hardest dungeons and of course raid type content should require them the most.
  asdar

Novice Member

Joined: 11/07/05
Posts: 590

8/13/13 2:01:12 PM#6

I'm a healer too, and I hope they have something for us too.

I'm not afraid of change, and I don't mind the trinity dying or being expanded so it includes everyone and no piece is too important to be missing.


Doing away with the hate meter is a good thing, that's progress, and the improved AI is also progress and I think that's a huge step forward if true.

We haven't heard a single thing about a healing spell or healing class in game. GW2 only has minor self heals, and since it looks a lot like GW2 it's reasonable to think that might be the case.


I hope that EQN looks at the right game for guidance. GW1 had multi classing, they had opponents that were as intelligent as people, because they were people (PVP) and they had a healer in game.


You didn't need it, but you could have it. Give us a multi class healer in game and let us decide what's too hard. We'll mix the healer up with some good motion and we'll prove that it can be done. If mobs attack only us we'll set up traps and play the kiter or the tank. If they don't we'll heal and then do the same.

Yes take away artificial hate and stupid AI, but don't take away all healing classes.

Asdar

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3360

8/13/13 2:01:26 PM#7
Originally posted by solochoowookie
Originally posted by st3v3b0
Done right, the removal of trinity can be a good thing for MMO's.

This is the root of my concern. I have yet to see it done. I have seen it removed, but not done right.

Its removed, they say its not gona end up like GW2 zerg combat and they will be telling us soon how it works. That they have something new never done before thats going to bring a new synergy to combat so people who like organized combat wont be upset. To me this sounds like buzz words that I just have never seen happen as promised. I will wait but my excitement has dropped on this game. 

  nationalcity

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/31/04
Posts: 325

8/13/13 2:07:58 PM#8
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by solochoowookie
Originally posted by st3v3b0
Done right, the removal of trinity can be a good thing for MMO's.

This is the root of my concern. I have yet to see it done. I have seen it removed, but not done right.

Its removed, they say its not gona end up like GW2 zerg combat and they will be telling us soon how it works. That they have something new never done before thats going to bring a new synergy to combat so people who like organized combat wont be upset. To me this sounds like buzz words that I just have never seen happen as promised. I will wait but my excitement has dropped on this game. 

I have to agree even though I hate saying that because I really wanted to this to be my next mmo..

 

I just hope it's not gonna be like a ping pong game and basically be a DPS race to down the mobs quick as possible.......

And I also want more information on healing they have already mentioned that people can tank but without traditional taunts/aggro generation now what about HEALING they always seem to ignore that part........

This game is suppose to be about how you can have all this freedom to play what you want but if I'm funneled into being a DPS how is that playing what I want?

  ropenice

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/02/04
Posts: 584

8/13/13 2:13:03 PM#9
Originally posted by st3v3b0
Originally posted by solochoowookie

One of the rules in table tops through to MMOS, has always been “Don’t leave the Cleric behind.”, but it seems the new games are doing just that.

And what if there is no "Cleric" online to heal my group?  Then what...  Sit around waiting for someone to log on or risk the experience on a PUG "healer"?

Quit fearing change.  Change is necessary to evolve into better situations.  With that being said, I do not want the ability of being a certain role to go away, but I do think it needs to evolve so that if that one role is not available it doesn't inconvenience other people.  Done right, the removal of trinity can be a good thing for MMO's.

I agree that waiting for a tank or healer back in EQ was terrible sometimes on slow nights or in out of the way zones, but usually wasn't too bad. My opinion is they should keep role dependency but not any one role/class. Example: have 2 cc or support types to make up for lack of tank or healer (would be more tactically challenging at times as well-good fun. Or make other combos viable (support, dps, semi-tank and 2 druid-type backup heal/cc combo). So keep roles just adjust the dependency so no one class absence takes away chance of success. This way groups would still want healers but not forced to wait.

My real fear is that the roles will be trivialized to the point where no one even needs to group in Rallies and zergs ensue.

  Storm_Cloud

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/10/13
Posts: 291

8/13/13 2:21:46 PM#10
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by solochoowookie
Originally posted by st3v3b0
Done right, the removal of trinity can be a good thing for MMO's.

This is the root of my concern. I have yet to see it done. I have seen it removed, but not done right.

Its removed, they say its not gona end up like GW2 zerg combat and they will be telling us soon how it works. That they have something new never done before thats going to bring a new synergy to combat so people who like organized combat wont be upset. To me this sounds like buzz words that I just have never seen happen as promised. I will wait but my excitement has dropped on this game. 

Buzz words like Smed saying... Oh yeah, we will have EQN playable at SOE live and I don't mean a beta... LMAO!

Right, so, GW2 tried the only viable option as I can see it without the trinity system. Been trying to figure out how one can set this up, probably like so many others. I just can't figure out a version how they would implement a non-trinity system that works, unless the fights are so damn super easy that there is no way that you will ever need heal or a tank that's taking the damage.

No, I'm with you on this one Nanfoodle. My excitement is at the bottom of the well. The reveal killed it completely for me.

Also wouldn't surprise me if inside that black box, they are panicking like crazy because nobody wanted the GW2 solution. Now they have no other plan, but of course, they can't say that so they're trying to maybe secretly tweak the trinity system, then come out and say. Hey! Nobody has done this before, which wont be a lie but will be laughable because we know what they've done. lol

 

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3360

8/13/13 2:23:30 PM#11
Originally posted by nationalcity
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by solochoowookie
Originally posted by st3v3b0
Done right, the removal of trinity can be a good thing for MMO's.

This is the root of my concern. I have yet to see it done. I have seen it removed, but not done right.

Its removed, they say its not gona end up like GW2 zerg combat and they will be telling us soon how it works. That they have something new never done before thats going to bring a new synergy to combat so people who like organized combat wont be upset. To me this sounds like buzz words that I just have never seen happen as promised. I will wait but my excitement has dropped on this game. 

I have to agree even though I hate saying that because I really wanted to this to be my next mmo..

 

I just hope it's not gonna be like a ping pong game and basically be a DPS race to down the mobs quick as possible.......

And I also want more information on healing they have already mentioned that people can tank but without traditional taunts/aggro generation now what about HEALING they always seem to ignore that part........

This game is suppose to be about how you can have all this freedom to play what you want but if I'm funneled into being a DPS how is that playing what I want?

No no, they have said there is no way to tank. You can have a defensive role but you cant tank. Maybe its things stuns and shield bash for a knock back. But is was said very clearly more then once, there is no tanking. At this point it makes me think of GW2 where everyone is really DPS with 10% flavor of CC, Healing or some other form of support. My Guardian in GW2 can heal but the more I specked into healing the less I became useful in a team but we were told not to compare EQN to GW2 because its not the same lol. No tanking at all, not sure how that works and still has good team synergy. 

  Aelious

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/27/11
Posts: 2294

World > Quest Progression

8/13/13 2:23:32 PM#12
Hi Chris!

I think the switch from absolute required healers came from your kind not being numerous enough for everyone to play the game when they needed to. Not that it's anyone's fault, it just happened tht way.

Just like the concerns from the tank crowd, the only hinting we have from SoE right now is that those play styles are there, just not "required". Now, that just means that it can be done but how easy is up to SoE. If they make the content hard enough then having "tank" or "healer" roles should be desirable to a group.

As a side not I think GW2 did a good job of allowing support to do just that. They may have blurred the lines between some roles but being able to heal/shield/CC for your group is there. Hopefully EQN is more defied than that though.
  Aabel

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/22/13
Posts: 32

8/13/13 2:32:51 PM#13
I love playing clerics in table top AD&D. I hate playing them in MMORPG's. Healing in MMORPG's is not fun for most people, so few people play those classes. Those classes being mandatory leads to a lot of waiting around for everyone else. I did not get from the class discussion that healing was being removed, rather it was being made to be more fun like it is in table top RPG's.
  asdar

Novice Member

Joined: 11/07/05
Posts: 590

8/13/13 2:37:01 PM#14


Originally posted by Aabel
I love playing clerics in table top AD&D. I hate playing them in MMORPG's. Healing in MMORPG's is not fun for most people, so few people play those classes. Those classes being mandatory leads to a lot of waiting around for everyone else. I did not get from the class discussion that healing was being removed, rather it was being made to be more fun like it is in table top RPG's.


Watch again, they never discuss so much as a healing spell let alone a healing class. Since SoE the devs have come out and said specifically that there would be tanks, but that they'd be different. Why mention tanks, but not mention a single time since SoE about healers?

Asdar

  Anthur

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/05/10
Posts: 614

8/13/13 2:40:05 PM#15

Just think this to the end: The roles are there but not required.

So you can take the role of a tank, but it is not required at all.

You can take the role of a healer, but it is not required at all.

You can take the role of a crowd controler, but it is not required at all.

If they are all not required, why play them ? You obviously need dps to kill the mob, but the rest... not required.

Sorry, I just can't imagine good group play without fixed roles. And I have yet to see an MMO which found a solution. And please don't mention GW2 as it's group play is awful. I give EQN the chance to prove me wrong, but I doubt they will. But I really hope they do of course. Maybe I am just nuts. ;)

  Drakephire

Novice Member

Joined: 4/02/13
Posts: 352

8/13/13 2:43:08 PM#16
I don't mind playing clerics in MMOs...but only for soloing or playing with my guild. What I dislike is getting tells from players (PUGS usually) begging me to join their group because they need a healer. The less gameplay depends on one type of role, the better. As others have stated, it sucks having to wait for that key role in order to finish content.
  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3360

8/13/13 2:44:49 PM#17
Originally posted by asdar

 


Originally posted by Aabel
I love playing clerics in table top AD&D. I hate playing them in MMORPG's. Healing in MMORPG's is not fun for most people, so few people play those classes. Those classes being mandatory leads to a lot of waiting around for everyone else. I did not get from the class discussion that healing was being removed, rather it was being made to be more fun like it is in table top RPG's.

 


Watch again, they never discuss so much as a healing spell let alone a healing class. Since SoE the devs have come out and said specifically that there would be tanks, but that they'd be different. Why mention tanks, but not mention a single time since SoE about healers?

People keep saying that but they said very clearly there is no way to tank in this game. Done!!! There is no tanking. You could play a defensive role but you cant tank. GW2 has that, you have no aggro control but when the mob does hit you, you can stay in the fray for 10 seconds longer then anyone else lol. You can pass on buffs to make your team last longer but in no way can you tank. EQN says it will not be done like GW2 but like GW2 you will never be able to tank. Done.

  Ralstlin

Novice Member

Joined: 1/09/10
Posts: 243

8/13/13 2:45:42 PM#18
  Dullahan

Novice Member

Joined: 5/20/05
Posts: 741

Death to Themepark.

8/13/13 2:50:55 PM#19
Originally posted by st3v3b0
Originally posted by solochoowookie

One of the rules in table tops through to MMOS, has always been “Don’t leave the Cleric behind.”, but it seems the new games are doing just that.

And what if there is no "Cleric" online to heal my group?  Then what...  Sit around waiting for someone to log on or risk the experience on a PUG "healer"?

Quit fearing change.  Change is necessary to evolve into better situations.  With that being said, I do not want the ability of being a certain role to go away, but I do think it needs to evolve so that if that one role is not available it doesn't inconvenience other people.  Done right, the removal of trinity can be a good thing for MMO's.

This excuse is just as ridiculous now as it was in the EQ Next reveal.  

They have tons of classes and could easily make several viable healers.  They've also given the ability to both change classes, and multiclass.  Thats THREE ways they've already rectified the problem, without having to remove key elements of fantasy rpg gameplay.

Its not change we're afraid of, its stupidity.

Played EQ, UO, DAoC, AO, WoW, EQII, Vanguard, Ryzom, Darkfall, Warhammer, Rift, MO, Tera, DFUW, Age of Wushu, NW2, ESO and many others I don't remember or care to admit.
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Awaiting The Repopulation, and Pantheon ROTF.

Intrigued by Star Citizen and Archeage.
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Don't be ignorant. Get an MMO education!

  Whytewulf

Novice Member

Joined: 9/26/11
Posts: 8

8/13/13 2:53:16 PM#20
Originally posted by solochoowookie

Hi.

My name is Chris, and I am a healer. Healers, I love to play them. I know that is abhorrent behavior for many of you, but I love it. My EQ Next fervor is tainted with fear. Fear they don’t want me or my kind.

I am excited about EQ Next in a big way, but I am also concerned the multiclass system will be much like GW2 and take a crap on anyone who wants to heal. I really wanted to play that game, but it seemed at every turn the dev team put things in place to keep my kind out. DPS Wars was no fun for us support class gamers.

It is sad, but ultimately “I am afraid my play style is now considered niche and I won’t have a place in the new EQ.”

One of the rules in table tops through to MMOS, has always been “Don’t leave the Cleric behind.”, but it seems the new games are doing just that.

I believe in creative destruction, am interested in the new AI, love SOEmote, but accept when things change some things might go away. I am still sadden though.

I still want to heal. In this game. Please SOE, let me heal.

My name is Chris, and I am healer.

I hope EQNext is not GW2, for one, we already have GW2.  MMO's have gotten away from the multi-player aspect in my opinion too much.  I am ok with not needing a group for standard questing, but when I go into a dungeon, yes, I may need someone to specialize in certain things, such as healing.  Multi-class may give us the ability to say ok Bob will heal, Jim will tank lisa will DPS, etc.  Those roles may have morphed to a certain extend, by removing hate meters and such, But I liked specializing.  I think others did too.  It was nice to be known as a top tank or ranged DPS.  It was a skill.  I want to play a role.  I understand change is inevitable, but to me I play MMORPGs for the people. And sometimes you have to force people together, by creating requirements.  I mean we knew certain dungeons, were better with ranged vs. melee or needed someone who could sleep or cc a certain way.  I look at it a lot like the WOW Druid or even the EQ Druid, I had to choose going in to some respect, but if our healer went down, even though I wasn't geared heal, I could switch up in a pinch and maybe finish out a group till we could rez.  That was fun, and even added a level of skill.  Bob is secondary healer if something happens to Jane.  Anywho, long live roles!

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