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EverQuest Next

EverQuest Next 

General Discussion  » So lets talk about this LIMITED ACTON BAR OF 8 SKILLS!!!!!! Just freakin 8 skills!!!!

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369 posts found
  MadDemon64

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/19/08
Posts: 1081

Why is it that fantasy trolls are vulnerable to fire, but internet trolls thrive on flame wars?

8/12/13 6:56:04 AM#301
Originally posted by Gromiz
Originally posted by Tygranir
Originally posted by Kuro1n
Originally posted by Tygranir

I love all the "Look what happened with GW2" comments. Do these people not realize it is one of the most popular and successful MMOs today?

 

I'm not saying EQN will be an emulation on the GW2 system, but it is already proven to be rather popular.

Based on what source? Just because it is alive doesn't mean it is 'most popular'.

Search this forum for a thread called "GW2 has 2 million Logging in per week"

I found the thread you mentioned: 

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/473/view/forums/thread/391140/page/1

Having 2 millions player logging in each week and playing an average of 508,428 hours pr day.

The playerbase plays an average of 15-20 minutes a day. They must have tons of fun playing this much!

I really wanted to like GW2 but the combat mechanics feels way to shallow to me. I played first at release for about a week but got really bored. Half a year later I gave it another try but got bored after a few days. 

The limited amount of active abilities and what tactical use they might have is what worries me most.

 

I know the feeling.  The exact same thing happened to me when I tried The Secret World (loved the atmosphere, setting, story, etc., but could'nt get past the combat (and I wish I could, because the giant mutate norse zombies with the crab claws was freakin' amazing, moreso than any other zombie design ever)

Since when is Tuesday a direction?

  Dauzqul

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/10/12
Posts: 1266

8/12/13 9:21:37 AM#302
I'm happy with it.
  Roguewiz

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/01/02
Posts: 522

When a Kender says "oops!"; its already too late.

8/12/13 9:39:56 AM#303

I don't necessarily mind the 4-weapon, 4-class setup.  What bothers me is the limitation on the number of usable weapons by each class.  While I understand, from a design standpoint, you don't want to design weapon skills for every class for every weapon; it does make it somewhat predictable.  A Wizard using a dagger will always have access to a set number of abilities.  That doesn't really add to much flavor.

With that being said I guess it depends heavily on how many skills you actually have access to for each weapon.

As far as the class skills go, I like their approach.  This section allows you to customize with some of the skills from your other classes.

I'll reserve judgement though.  No point in theorizing what the game is going to be like until SOE releases more information beyond what I saw in Vegas.

Raquelis in various games
Hungweilao, Pandaren Monk, Area-52
Played: Everything
Playing: Hearthstone, League of Legends, World of Warcraft, Destiny (XBOX ONE)
Wants: The World
Anticipating: Everquest Next, Everquest Next Landmark, Warhammer 40K

The secret to making a great game: Don't cater to the masses!

  MadDemon64

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/19/08
Posts: 1081

Why is it that fantasy trolls are vulnerable to fire, but internet trolls thrive on flame wars?

8/12/13 10:14:27 AM#304
Originally posted by Roguewiz

I don't necessarily mind the 4-weapon, 4-class setup.  What bothers me is the limitation on the number of usable weapons by each class.  While I understand, from a design standpoint, you don't want to design weapon skills for every class for every weapon; it does make it somewhat predictable.  A Wizard using a dagger will always have access to a set number of abilities.  That doesn't really add to much flavor.

With that being said I guess it depends heavily on how many skills you actually have access to for each weapon.

As far as the class skills go, I like their approach.  This section allows you to customize with some of the skills from your other classes.

I'll reserve judgement though.  No point in theorizing what the game is going to be like until SOE releases more information beyond what I saw in Vegas.

Remember, the game isn't even in alpha yet, so everything is bound to change.

Also, I think you are slightly misinformed.  There aren't 4 classes, but 40, you only have access to 4 at the beginning and then get more as you progress.  As for the weapons, I I would not be surprised that once you start multiclassing, you can try different weapon combinations (i.e. take one warrior weapon and use it in conjunction with a wizard weapon).  I think the limit of "2 weapons per class" was only made to simplify the combat system and will not be so much as a limit once you start the multiclassing.

Of course, I could just be doing some wishful thinking, but again, not even in alpha yet.

Since when is Tuesday a direction?

  ice-vortex

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/21/10
Posts: 921

8/12/13 10:41:19 AM#305
Originally posted by MadDemon64
Originally posted by Roguewiz

I don't necessarily mind the 4-weapon, 4-class setup.  What bothers me is the limitation on the number of usable weapons by each class.  While I understand, from a design standpoint, you don't want to design weapon skills for every class for every weapon; it does make it somewhat predictable.  A Wizard using a dagger will always have access to a set number of abilities.  That doesn't really add to much flavor.

With that being said I guess it depends heavily on how many skills you actually have access to for each weapon.

As far as the class skills go, I like their approach.  This section allows you to customize with some of the skills from your other classes.

I'll reserve judgement though.  No point in theorizing what the game is going to be like until SOE releases more information beyond what I saw in Vegas.

Remember, the game isn't even in alpha yet, so everything is bound to change.

Also, I think you are slightly misinformed.  There aren't 4 classes, but 40, you only have access to 4 at the beginning and then get more as you progress.  As for the weapons, I I would not be surprised that once you start multiclassing, you can try different weapon combinations (i.e. take one warrior weapon and use it in conjunction with a wizard weapon).  I think the limit of "2 weapons per class" was only made to simplify the combat system and will not be so much as a limit once you start the multiclassing.

Of course, I could just be doing some wishful thinking, but again, not even in alpha yet.

You get to choose from 8 classes at character creation.

The limit of two weapons per class was made so they could have unique animations and stances for each class so they could be distinguishable between each other.

  Roguewiz

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/01/02
Posts: 522

When a Kender says "oops!"; its already too late.

8/12/13 11:18:01 AM#306
Originally posted by MadDemon64
Originally posted by Roguewiz

I don't necessarily mind the 4-weapon, 4-class setup.  What bothers me is the limitation on the number of usable weapons by each class.  While I understand, from a design standpoint, you don't want to design weapon skills for every class for every weapon; it does make it somewhat predictable.  A Wizard using a dagger will always have access to a set number of abilities.  That doesn't really add to much flavor.

With that being said I guess it depends heavily on how many skills you actually have access to for each weapon.

As far as the class skills go, I like their approach.  This section allows you to customize with some of the skills from your other classes.

I'll reserve judgement though.  No point in theorizing what the game is going to be like until SOE releases more information beyond what I saw in Vegas.

Remember, the game isn't even in alpha yet, so everything is bound to change.

Also, I think you are slightly misinformed.  There aren't 4 classes, but 40, you only have access to 4 at the beginning and then get more as you progress.  As for the weapons, I I would not be surprised that once you start multiclassing, you can try different weapon combinations (i.e. take one warrior weapon and use it in conjunction with a wizard weapon).  I think the limit of "2 weapons per class" was only made to simplify the combat system and will not be so much as a limit once you start the multiclassing.

Of course, I could just be doing some wishful thinking, but again, not even in alpha yet.

4 weapon skills, 4 class skills.  Don't misunderstand my post as "4-classes".

2nd:  Based on what they said in the class panel, the 4 weapon skills will be restricted to ONLY the class you currently are.  They currently have no plans to allow different weapon skill combinations.  That is where the 4-class skills come in play.  Those can be 4 skills from 1 class, or 1 skill from 4 different classes.

Raquelis in various games
Hungweilao, Pandaren Monk, Area-52
Played: Everything
Playing: Hearthstone, League of Legends, World of Warcraft, Destiny (XBOX ONE)
Wants: The World
Anticipating: Everquest Next, Everquest Next Landmark, Warhammer 40K

The secret to making a great game: Don't cater to the masses!

  rygard49

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/11
Posts: 985

8/12/13 11:35:44 AM#307

@Roguewiz (offtopic): Your avatar quote makes me wish there were a Dragonlance MMO.

 

On Topic: I think 8 is enough. The last MMO I played was WoW, and the skill bloat is just ridiculous. To play the game at peak skill levels you have to have between 15-35 keybinds, depending on class. Damage skills, interrupts, CC, CC clear, heals, long term buffs, short term buffs, conditionals.... And that's fun to a certain extent, but it's a lot to keep in your head. It wouldn't work with class switching.

EQN is closer to the Original EQ than the F2P EQ we have today. In it's origin, playing an EQ warrior, you had like 4 buttons to push. Attack, kick, bash, taunt. Over time they added more to do with disciplines and AAs, but it was very, very simple. A caster in the game had a few more buttons to click, but they can still only memorize 8 spells at once. You set up your spell kit for whatever dungeon/group you were participating with.

I like the return to that type of decision making. Pick what class and weapon you're going to use depending on the dungeon/group you're joining. Having 8 skills seems robust enough to offer a decent amount of breakdown between damage and utility, and simple enough not to overload players who switch classes often.

  Misiu

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/04
Posts: 43

8/12/13 11:37:28 AM#308

I believe they gave an example of trying to tackle something and failing and then rezing (whatever the death mechanic is) changing out your build and giving it another shot. 

 

I sounds like they are going for situational builds rather then one build for everything.

  Cirolle

Novice Member

Joined: 8/11/13
Posts: 10

8/12/13 11:45:17 AM#309

Wow, just wow.

 

I signed up to this forum to have some good discussions on EQN, but if this thread is anything to judge by, it is one of the worst places to do that.

 

There is so much misinformation going on here.

We do not know much as it is yet.

So many are actually saying things that are directly opposite of what we have heard (or read or watched)

Then there is the group that doesn't even seem interested in the game at all, but just want to sit and discuss (fight) about how bad OTHER games have been.

The people that seems to hate change and want EQN to be like their dream game, do not seem to be able to come up with anything but the same old mechanics. Nothing new from you guys at all.

There is a loud group of people that will complain just to complain. They are usually very loud and out there.

They turn a lot of the other (more sensible) people away, thereby creating a oneway discussion.

Is it so you can sit and say "Yay I won the discussion? Because a discussion that have ended because no one wants to listen to you is not won. By far.

They are the same people that usually get the attention of devs, because they are so loud.

A lot of stupid changes have been made in game development, because players insist that they want things their way.

Changes that go away from the original goal of development and therefore doesnt mesh at all with the final product.

 

Learn how to be a bit more relaxed and stop using the totally negative way of discussing things please, it is not constructive in any way.

If you think something "SUX" or its "GUNNA FAIL!!!", you have a few more ways of saying it than just bashing away.

If you don't, then fine. We heard you the first time, no need to jump up and down demanding attention.

  ezduzit

Novice Member

Joined: 3/18/07
Posts: 123

8/12/13 11:53:56 AM#310
My nephew is the number 1 pvp'er in his WOW server. He can eat with one hand and click click click with the other. That crapola needs to stop!
  sirphobos

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/10/11
Posts: 603

8/12/13 11:55:17 AM#311
I don't have a problem with eight abilities, but the fact that four are determined by you weapon rather than get to choose your own seems like it will be way too limiting.
  bentrim

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/06/11
Posts: 89

8/12/13 11:57:19 AM#312
Everything about this game cries super E Z mode. Without exposing much, you told us everything we need to know SOE. Little over a year to launch, quick burnout, FTP within 1yr. SOOOO disappointed with concepts and what direction they are taking this game. Of course it is your game to ruin. 
  Silacoid

Novice Member

Joined: 8/11/03
Posts: 244

8/12/13 11:58:58 AM#313
If the action bar wasn't limited your character would become ridiculous since there are no classes and you can use multiple classes skills at the same time.
  Cirolle

Novice Member

Joined: 8/11/13
Posts: 10

8/12/13 12:08:02 PM#314
Originally posted by bentrim
Everything about this game cries super E Z mode. Without exposing much, you told us everything we need to know SOE. Little over a year to launch, quick burnout, FTP within 1yr. SOOOO disappointed with concepts and what direction they are taking this game. Of course it is your game to ruin. 

How do you know?

I am not saying it wont be, but how do YOU know?

Use arguments in a discussion, not just postulates.

Or it is just yelling.

  Talinthis

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/12/06
Posts: 25

8/12/13 1:04:56 PM#315
Originally posted by Tibbz
Originally posted by DanaDark

Returning to original EQ type of set up is a wonderful idea.

You don't have only 8 skills. You actually can have hundreds according to the developers (doing the math that each class has 4 skills and there are 40 or so classes as they mentioned).

But, you can only have 8 active at one time. Wonderful!

I have gotten incredibly annoyed with games these days where 90% of the screen is covered by skill buttons and then I get to see a whole wopping 100x100 pixil box of the actual game because my UI has ate the screen.

As well, the developers showed the ease of actually swapping around your skills, which means we can have ourselves actually have several different builds we enjoy for solo, group, and larger actions. And even then, multiples of those if we wish.

indeed, no need to have 52 skills on screen and mash buttons in X order for xp, Y order for PvP and Z order for raids... that nonsense needs to die, EQN and even ESO have the right idea here; but i hold my judgement until i put my hands on it.  

not set up quite like that, but i want many different AoE's, DoT's, summons, ports, buffs, useless spells, (shooting a ball of light or turning into a tree) i changed my spell bar so damn much in EQ1. i can even still feel the dread when i HAD to stare at my spellbook not knowing if something was coming towards me to slay my face

  Kuinn

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/10/11
Posts: 2002

8/12/13 1:15:57 PM#316

Sad news, not propably a game for me. I need at least 12+ skills in order to feel like my character actually can do stuff. A bunch of various attacks, lets just say 4 since EQnext has that. Maybe 2 special attacks on top of that though too.

 

Misc skills (mines? other triggered spells? movement boosts/escapes? less usefull fun stuff/class identity spells like summons, teleports, stealths, sprints etc) that's some 6 extra spells at least per char. I have 12 now, and I could think a bunch more of "must have spells" so yeah, I dont like this at all...

 

8 abilities at a time is way too little, it will lead to incredibly simple builds. Sure, some people spam only 3 skills in a MMO, I dont though, this game looked promising but this is way too core mechanic that is lacking, I didnt like it in GW2 either and it had more abilities at once, but GW2 has very poor class identity which I dont like at all.

 

Edit; oh and ofcourse, as always: "Fucking consoles pissing on my games and dumbing them down" :)

  Miblet

Novice Member

Joined: 8/19/10
Posts: 333

8/12/13 1:55:29 PM#317

I don't mind the smaller action bars.

4 per weapon, with at least 2 weapon setups allows you access to 8 skills (assuming you can switch weapons in combat which I can't see being blocked), 4 others of your choice available depending on classes unlocked.  Thats a minimum of 12 abilities (more than most MMOs make players use on a regular / semi regular basis - of course there are abilities in most MMOs that never get used, or get used once in a blue moon...).  That's 12 readily available with a great depth of choice for 4 of those 12.

Then you get the items which we know will affect class abilities (and I can't see why they also wouldn't affect weapon abilities too) allowing greater customisation.

I personally don't think we have anything to worry about, at least not this early on in the game's development.

As has been said EQ had 8-12 abilities or less for almost all classes (8 spells + abilities), until AAs and even then most had less than 15 for years after, with spellbars only getting more slots in OoW (+1 spell slot) and beyond (currently at 12 spell gem slots).

I would much rather have 12 abilities at the tips of my fingers than 36 with 30 being situational or useless.

  Grummus

Novice Member

Joined: 7/28/13
Posts: 116

8/12/13 3:21:15 PM#318
8 is fine if they're all actually relevant and not stupid shit like breath buffs, minor armor or night vision and the like. "Your post has been been flagged as possible spam. Please complete the Captcha form below to verify you're human." Yes, I'm a robot.
  st3v3b0

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/09/04
Posts: 127

8/12/13 3:49:47 PM#319
8 skills is plenty as long as the skills are interesting enough and they can interact with other skills (e.g. combos) as they hinted at SOE Live.  There is no reason to have 4 rows of actions like in RIFT when majority do not even get used.
  wunderkind44

Novice Member

Joined: 7/04/10
Posts: 14

8/12/13 4:02:40 PM#320

 I’ve always considered myself a casual player, but I enjoyed being a part of a game-world where there was real challenge that forced players to work together to come up with viable strategies and tactics.

Hopefully the EQNext developers realize that they need to build a game for their core audience. This audience forms the heart of the community. Without this audience, the game will probably wither and die after a year.

It may be too early to judge, but from the little I’ve seen so far, I fear EQNext may try to be too streamlined and accessible, too superficial, to appeal to this core. Lets hope the developers remember that this game should be designed for an adult audience and for young adults who are nerdy enough to study up on game mechanics.

Please don’t simplify the game to appeal to an audience that only wants or appreciates visceral combat. Computer roleplaying games should be made by nerds, for nerds! 

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