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EverQuest Next

EverQuest Next 

General Discussion  » Skills bound to weapons? Really?

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159 posts found
  fizzlesticks

Novice Member

Joined: 8/06/13
Posts: 45

8/11/13 6:01:44 PM#141
Originally posted by SlyLoK
Originally posted by fizzlesticks
Originally posted by SlyLoK

But arent the weapon skills based off of the first class you select? I think I read that somewhere and maybe even in this thread someone mentioned it.

I for one do not want the same 4 skills for say a mace fresh out of character creation all the way through building my character toward bigger and better things. That is completely boring.

No, the 4 weapons skills are based on your current class and what weapon you're using.

That isnt what I asked.

?How is that not what you asked?

It doesnt matter. Having the same 4 skills on a weapon type is bad design. Not being able to unlock more skills to switch out the more you use a weapon or by visiting a trainer just isnt going to work long term. And switching out class abilities for the other 4 isnt going to make up for it.

Agree.

Why should someone with 6 months experience have the same sword skills as someone with 1 months experience? I want more information on such a critical issue with character growth. 

Well, now that we know you don't start with all 4 skills, it may take 6 months to unlock them all.

I dont care about 4 skills , 8 skills , 12 skill slots or ever how many there will be. I want 100s of skills to chose from including weapon skills so I can have my own build and not just another copy of someone else outside of mixing and matching class abilities.

Yes.

 

  Daaken

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/01/13
Posts: 160

“It is better to fail in originality than to succeed in imitation.”

8/11/13 6:06:19 PM#142
Originally posted by Galadourn
well, having skills bound to weapons might seem restrictive at first, but it makes sense if you think it over a bit; a piercing attack would hardly be executable with a great hammer or mace, for example, so it makes sense to have it restricted to certain other weapons (rapier, for example). LIkewise a cleave attack isn't fitting for a 1h weapon. I's less of an issue than it sounds really.

 Again no one is asking to have every skill available for every weapon.  It isn't hard to give a pool of skills to each weapon that match the flavor and aesthetic of said weapon.  Options, even if limited are better then rigid GW2 style skills that never change.

Random Forum Poster: I want an MMO that is different, original and fun.

Me: So you want something like EQN

Them: Nah dude, I want a Holy Trinity, Tab Target combat, Instanced Raiding, and Rigid classes.

Me: Double Facepalm.

  Valkyrie

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/11/05
Posts: 140

8/11/13 6:24:50 PM#143
Originally posted by diabel

Has this been officially confirmed? It seems SOE is promoting "freedom to play your way" yet force you to use specific weapons for skills? I don't mind 8 skills but being forced to use a certain weapon is what broke GW2 for me, that and the lack of trinity and the zerg fest that followed.

Would be nice if there is a way around this. I enjoy playing a necromancer with a staff and don't like the idea of being forced to use a dagger just to get the "best" spells. Anyone else feel this way or is it just me?

 

I don't understand the concern here. If you use a dagger, the skill is ... dagger fighting. If you use a bow, the skill is ... bow use. That is not abilities based. From how I understood it the weapon defines what in total can be done with it, the class defines what specifically you can do with it.
For example if you have fencing as part of your class, you might fence with a sword. But if you are a brute force class and never learned fencing you might only use it to slash and run it through people. Still the sword defines: can't shoot arrows with it.

Played: Pretty much any fantasy MMO, some did not even make it to release ...
Favorites: UO, EQ2, Vanguard, Wurm Online
Playing: Wildstar, Landmark
Anticipating: EQ Next

  Stiler

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/19/05
Posts: 599

8/11/13 6:34:52 PM#144
Originally posted by Valkyrie
Originally posted by diabel

Has this been officially confirmed? It seems SOE is promoting "freedom to play your way" yet force you to use specific weapons for skills? I don't mind 8 skills but being forced to use a certain weapon is what broke GW2 for me, that and the lack of trinity and the zerg fest that followed.

Would be nice if there is a way around this. I enjoy playing a necromancer with a staff and don't like the idea of being forced to use a dagger just to get the "best" spells. Anyone else feel this way or is it just me?

 

I don't understand the concern here. If you use a dagger, the skill is ... dagger fighting. If you use a bow, the skill is ... bow use. That is not abilities based. From how I understood it the weapon defines what in total can be done with it, the class defines what specifically you can do with it.
For example if you have fencing as part of your class, you might fence with a sword. But if you are a brute force class and never learned fencing you might only use it to slash and run it through people. Still the sword defines: can't shoot arrows with it.

What people are concerned with is that the weapon/class locks you into 4 pre-set weapon abilities, that you never get access to more weapon skills or get to select your weapon skills (for that weapon).

 

So say, if you intend to play as one of the starting classes and have no interest in playing as one of the classes you unlock while playing, you will only have these 4 weapon skills throughout the ENTIRE game.

 

This can lead to a sense of no progression in terms of your weapon skills. 

 

What most people are wanting (in this thread) are for the ability to have a wider selection of weapon skills that you obtain within one single class, so you can mix up your weapon skills and have more variety.

 

So everyone who is say, a warrior, doesn't have the exact same 4 weapon skills as every single warrior in the game.

 

I think one way they could do this, is to allow people to truly make their own classes. Instead of simply allowing us to mix and match 4 class abilities, why not allow us to mix and match weapon abilities from the classes? (Within the same weapon type of course).

 

So lets say a warrior uses one handed swords, while a berserker uses them as well.  EAch of them has 4 different one-handed sword abilities.

So if you unlock both classes, you can then (while playing as either class) mix and match those weapon abilities how you want (with the more powerful ones obviously costing more to slot in, just like with class abilities).

 

 

  Eeks

Novice Member

Joined: 7/17/13
Posts: 72

8/11/13 7:01:38 PM#145
Originally posted by Stiler
Originally posted by Valkyrie
Originally posted by diabel

Has this been officially confirmed? It seems SOE is promoting "freedom to play your way" yet force you to use specific weapons for skills? I don't mind 8 skills but being forced to use a certain weapon is what broke GW2 for me, that and the lack of trinity and the zerg fest that followed.

Would be nice if there is a way around this. I enjoy playing a necromancer with a staff and don't like the idea of being forced to use a dagger just to get the "best" spells. Anyone else feel this way or is it just me?

 

I don't understand the concern here. If you use a dagger, the skill is ... dagger fighting. If you use a bow, the skill is ... bow use. That is not abilities based. From how I understood it the weapon defines what in total can be done with it, the class defines what specifically you can do with it.
For example if you have fencing as part of your class, you might fence with a sword. But if you are a brute force class and never learned fencing you might only use it to slash and run it through people. Still the sword defines: can't shoot arrows with it.

What people are concerned with is that the weapon/class locks you into 4 pre-set weapon abilities, that you never get access to more weapon skills or get to select your weapon skills (for that weapon).

 

So say, if you intend to play as one of the starting classes and have no interest in playing as one of the classes you unlock while playing, you will only have these 4 weapon skills throughout the ENTIRE game.

 

This can lead to a sense of no progression in terms of your weapon skills. 

 

What most people are wanting (in this thread) are for the ability to have a wider selection of weapon skills that you obtain within one single class, so you can mix up your weapon skills and have more variety.

 

So everyone who is say, a warrior, doesn't have the exact same 4 weapon skills as every single warrior in the game.

 

I think one way they could do this, is to allow people to truly make their own classes. Instead of simply allowing us to mix and match 4 class abilities, why not allow us to mix and match weapon abilities from the classes? (Within the same weapon type of course).

 

So lets say a warrior uses one handed swords, while a berserker uses them as well.  EAch of them has 4 different one-handed sword abilities.

So if you unlock both classes, you can then (while playing as either class) mix and match those weapon abilities how you want (with the more powerful ones obviously costing more to slot in, just like with class abilities).

 

 

Their reasoning on this issue is that they want classes to have an aesthetic identity.  If you see a player using their weapon in a certain way, you know what base class they are.  If you want to use a 2 hander and use SK skills while having different weapon abilities from the SK... There's nothing stopping you from getting another base class that can use a 2 hander and filling in their class skills with the SK's (Assuming the class slots are the same... There may also be more to base classes that they haven't talked about yet).  

Edit: To go along with the aesthetics, mixing and matching weapon abilities may not make smooth animation sense at all.  Different classes may hold weapons completely differently.  For instance, holding a katana with the blade up or the blade down.

There's also no doubt a balance issue that's involved here I'm sure... but we can't really speculate about that until we see what the weapon skill sets are.

There's still a lot we don't know about these systems and it's not all because they haven't figured it out yet.  There have been a bunch of tweets lately saying there's a lot they haven't talked about that we'll be hearing about soon.  Who knows how gear may affect these skills and such.

 

  Stiler

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/19/05
Posts: 599

8/11/13 7:21:47 PM#146
Originally posted by Eeks
Originally posted by Stiler
Originally posted by Valkyrie
Originally posted by diabel

Has this been officially confirmed? It seems SOE is promoting "freedom to play your way" yet force you to use specific weapons for skills? I don't mind 8 skills but being forced to use a certain weapon is what broke GW2 for me, that and the lack of trinity and the zerg fest that followed.

Would be nice if there is a way around this. I enjoy playing a necromancer with a staff and don't like the idea of being forced to use a dagger just to get the "best" spells. Anyone else feel this way or is it just me?

 

I don't understand the concern here. If you use a dagger, the skill is ... dagger fighting. If you use a bow, the skill is ... bow use. That is not abilities based. From how I understood it the weapon defines what in total can be done with it, the class defines what specifically you can do with it.
For example if you have fencing as part of your class, you might fence with a sword. But if you are a brute force class and never learned fencing you might only use it to slash and run it through people. Still the sword defines: can't shoot arrows with it.

What people are concerned with is that the weapon/class locks you into 4 pre-set weapon abilities, that you never get access to more weapon skills or get to select your weapon skills (for that weapon).

 

So say, if you intend to play as one of the starting classes and have no interest in playing as one of the classes you unlock while playing, you will only have these 4 weapon skills throughout the ENTIRE game.

 

This can lead to a sense of no progression in terms of your weapon skills. 

 

What most people are wanting (in this thread) are for the ability to have a wider selection of weapon skills that you obtain within one single class, so you can mix up your weapon skills and have more variety.

 

So everyone who is say, a warrior, doesn't have the exact same 4 weapon skills as every single warrior in the game.

 

I think one way they could do this, is to allow people to truly make their own classes. Instead of simply allowing us to mix and match 4 class abilities, why not allow us to mix and match weapon abilities from the classes? (Within the same weapon type of course).

 

So lets say a warrior uses one handed swords, while a berserker uses them as well.  EAch of them has 4 different one-handed sword abilities.

So if you unlock both classes, you can then (while playing as either class) mix and match those weapon abilities how you want (with the more powerful ones obviously costing more to slot in, just like with class abilities).

 

 

Their reasoning on this issue is that they want classes to have an aesthetic identity.  If you see a player using their weapon in a certain way, you know what base class they are.  If you want to use a 2 hander and use SK skills while having different weapon abilities from the SK... There's nothing stopping you from getting another base class that can use a 2 hander and filling in their class skills with the SK's (Assuming the class slots are the same... There may also be more to base classes that they haven't talked about yet).  

There's also no doubt a balance issue that's involved here I'm sure... but we can't really speculate about that until we see what the weapon skill sets are.

There's still a lot we don't know about these systems and it's not all because they haven't figured it out yet.  There have been a bunch of tweets lately saying there's a lot they haven't talked about that we'll be hearing about soon.  Who knows how gear may affect these skills and such.

 

 

That's what I don't get though, why do classes need such an "Aesthetic" identity? Why do we need to know someone's base class is "x" for?

The only reason I can think of is PVP, but really with the ability to mix/match class skills, is it really going to matter if you know someone's base-class?

 

They could open up the weapon skills like class skills and allow for a LOT more frreedom in terms of people making up their own classes.

 

They could still keep the aesthetics of the base class people play as (I think many people would LOVE to be able to pick which stance for their weapons they like and overall animations).

  Eeks

Novice Member

Joined: 7/17/13
Posts: 72

8/11/13 7:27:00 PM#147
Originally posted by Stiler

That's what I don't get though, why do classes need such an "Aesthetic" identity? Why do we need to know someone's base class is "x" for?

The only reason I can think of is PVP, but really with the ability to mix/match class skills, is it really going to matter if you know someone's base-class?

 

They could open up the weapon skills like class skills and allow for a LOT more frreedom in terms of people making up their own classes.

 

They could still keep the aesthetics of the base class people play as (I think many people would LOVE to be able to pick which stance for their weapons they like and overall animations).

This is just a choice they're making I guess.  They want said animation to only occur with said skill.  Also, I edited my previous post when you were posting this;  I think some of it has to do with fluency of animation as different classes will hold the same weapon differently.  On top of that, balance becomes exponentially more difficult every time you add another degree of freedom into the class system (It's already going to be nuts with how much freedom they're allowing).

And just to be clear, I'd love to just go nuts mixing weapon skills as well hehe... but I personally see why they're doing it the way they are.

I'm more curious at the moment about what the caster weapon skills will be.  AOE heals from a staff?  Lightning shooting out of a wand?

  Zorgo

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/05/05
Posts: 2210

Who did wrong? The advertiser hired to sell the game or the consumer who put faith in advertising?

8/11/13 7:35:26 PM#148
Originally posted by Eeks
Originally posted by Stiler

That's what I don't get though, why do classes need such an "Aesthetic" identity? Why do we need to know someone's base class is "x" for?

The only reason I can think of is PVP, but really with the ability to mix/match class skills, is it really going to matter if you know someone's base-class?

 

They could open up the weapon skills like class skills and allow for a LOT more frreedom in terms of people making up their own classes.

 

They could still keep the aesthetics of the base class people play as (I think many people would LOVE to be able to pick which stance for their weapons they like and overall animations).

This is just a choice they're making I guess.  They want said animation to only occur with said skill.  Also, I edited my previous post when you were posting this;  I think some of it has to do with fluency of animation as different classes will hold the same weapon differently.  On top of that, balance becomes exponentially more difficult every time you add another degree of freedom into the class system (It's already going to be nuts with how much freedom they're allowing).

And just to be clear, I'd love to just go nuts mixing weapon skills as well hehe... but I personally see why they're doing it the way they are.

I'm more curious at the moment about what the caster weapon skills will be.  AOE heals from a staff?  Lightning shooting out of a wand?

Just to add to that this allows you to visually know what's going on while looking at your character fighting - putting unique visual clues into all aspects of the game is an attempt to get people to stop 'playing the UI' instead of the game.

  Valkyrie

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/11/05
Posts: 140

8/12/13 12:26:11 AM#149
Originally posted by Stiler
Originally posted by Valkyrie
Originally posted by diabel

Has this been officially confirmed? It seems SOE is promoting "freedom to play your way" yet force you to use specific weapons for skills? I don't mind 8 skills but being forced to use a certain weapon is what broke GW2 for me, that and the lack of trinity and the zerg fest that followed.

Would be nice if there is a way around this. I enjoy playing a necromancer with a staff and don't like the idea of being forced to use a dagger just to get the "best" spells. Anyone else feel this way or is it just me?

 

I don't understand the concern here. If you use a dagger, the skill is ... dagger fighting. If you use a bow, the skill is ... bow use. That is not abilities based. From how I understood it the weapon defines what in total can be done with it, the class defines what specifically you can do with it.
For example if you have fencing as part of your class, you might fence with a sword. But if you are a brute force class and never learned fencing you might only use it to slash and run it through people. Still the sword defines: can't shoot arrows with it.

What people are concerned with is that the weapon/class locks you into 4 pre-set weapon abilities, that you never get access to more weapon skills or get to select your weapon skills (for that weapon).

 

So say, if you intend to play as one of the starting classes and have no interest in playing as one of the classes you unlock while playing, you will only have these 4 weapon skills throughout the ENTIRE game.

 

This can lead to a sense of no progression in terms of your weapon skills. 

 

What most people are wanting (in this thread) are for the ability to have a wider selection of weapon skills that you obtain within one single class, so you can mix up your weapon skills and have more variety.

 

So everyone who is say, a warrior, doesn't have the exact same 4 weapon skills as every single warrior in the game.

 

I think one way they could do this, is to allow people to truly make their own classes. Instead of simply allowing us to mix and match 4 class abilities, why not allow us to mix and match weapon abilities from the classes? (Within the same weapon type of course).

 

So lets say a warrior uses one handed swords, while a berserker uses them as well.  EAch of them has 4 different one-handed sword abilities.

So if you unlock both classes, you can then (while playing as either class) mix and match those weapon abilities how you want (with the more powerful ones obviously costing more to slot in, just like with class abilities).

 

 

They said specifically that you can mix and match classes to use like an ability pool basically. The weapon you actually pick up then restricts only what you can do with that particular weapon from what I understood. Which again is what I said: you can't shoot with a sword even if you have picked a ranger-paladin mix as class.

Played: Pretty much any fantasy MMO, some did not even make it to release ...
Favorites: UO, EQ2, Vanguard, Wurm Online
Playing: Wildstar, Landmark
Anticipating: EQ Next

  Stiler

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/19/05
Posts: 599

8/12/13 12:52:02 AM#150
Originally posted by Valkyrie
Originally posted by Stiler
Originally posted by Valkyrie
Originally posted by diabel

Has this been officially confirmed? It seems SOE is promoting "freedom to play your way" yet force you to use specific weapons for skills? I don't mind 8 skills but being forced to use a certain weapon is what broke GW2 for me, that and the lack of trinity and the zerg fest that followed.

Would be nice if there is a way around this. I enjoy playing a necromancer with a staff and don't like the idea of being forced to use a dagger just to get the "best" spells. Anyone else feel this way or is it just me?

 

I don't understand the concern here. If you use a dagger, the skill is ... dagger fighting. If you use a bow, the skill is ... bow use. That is not abilities based. From how I understood it the weapon defines what in total can be done with it, the class defines what specifically you can do with it.
For example if you have fencing as part of your class, you might fence with a sword. But if you are a brute force class and never learned fencing you might only use it to slash and run it through people. Still the sword defines: can't shoot arrows with it.

What people are concerned with is that the weapon/class locks you into 4 pre-set weapon abilities, that you never get access to more weapon skills or get to select your weapon skills (for that weapon).

 

So say, if you intend to play as one of the starting classes and have no interest in playing as one of the classes you unlock while playing, you will only have these 4 weapon skills throughout the ENTIRE game.

 

This can lead to a sense of no progression in terms of your weapon skills. 

 

What most people are wanting (in this thread) are for the ability to have a wider selection of weapon skills that you obtain within one single class, so you can mix up your weapon skills and have more variety.

 

So everyone who is say, a warrior, doesn't have the exact same 4 weapon skills as every single warrior in the game.

 

I think one way they could do this, is to allow people to truly make their own classes. Instead of simply allowing us to mix and match 4 class abilities, why not allow us to mix and match weapon abilities from the classes? (Within the same weapon type of course).

 

So lets say a warrior uses one handed swords, while a berserker uses them as well.  EAch of them has 4 different one-handed sword abilities.

So if you unlock both classes, you can then (while playing as either class) mix and match those weapon abilities how you want (with the more powerful ones obviously costing more to slot in, just like with class abilities).

 

 

They said specifically that you can mix and match classes to use like an ability pool basically. The weapon you actually pick up then restricts only what you can do with that particular weapon from what I understood. Which again is what I said: you can't shoot with a sword even if you have picked a ranger-paladin mix as class.

 

You can mix and match the class abilities. You can not mix and match the weapon skills associated with the current base class you are playing as.

If you are playing a warrior and using a one handed sword, you have 4 set weapon skills. These skills are tied to you playing as a warrior.

If you have other classes unlocked which also can use a one handed sword, you can not "mix and match" their weapon skills.

In my example I said specifically mixing weapon skills of that same weapon type, I wasn't asking for shooting an arrow with a sword equipped or something  absurd, just saying it'd be nice if you have unlocked two classes that have each the same weapon type and weapon skills associated with that weapon, if you could then mix/match those like you are able to with class skills.

 

  Loke666

Elite Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 16610

8/12/13 1:12:20 AM#151
Originally posted by Daaken
Originally posted by Galadourn
well, having skills bound to weapons might seem restrictive at first, but it makes sense if you think it over a bit; a piercing attack would hardly be executable with a great hammer or mace, for example, so it makes sense to have it restricted to certain other weapons (rapier, for example). LIkewise a cleave attack isn't fitting for a 1h weapon. I's less of an issue than it sounds really.

 Again no one is asking to have every skill available for every weapon.  It isn't hard to give a pool of skills to each weapon that match the flavor and aesthetic of said weapon.  Options, even if limited are better then rigid GW2 style skills that never change.

Funny enough are there already a game that does that, it is called "Guildwars".

And yes, I do prefer that to the sequels weapon system but I do think that GW2 did what it did for PvP balance issues. It is bloody hard to balance the number of skills GW had.

Now EQN seems to be PvE focused so there I don't see the need to lock specific weapon skills. Then again as I said earlier, we are not sure how things will work yet. If a certain sword have different attacks from another sword you could build your build based on certain weapons and that would work fine. 

There are no real reasons in a PvE game for having the same attacks on a flaming sword as on a well crafted non magical one. If SOE took about 15 different attacks and mixed them on different swords it would work fine.

  Voqar

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/28/04
Posts: 477

8/12/13 1:26:19 AM#152
Originally posted by diabel

Has this been officially confirmed? It seems SOE is promoting "freedom to play your way" yet force you to use specific weapons for skills? I don't mind 8 skills but being forced to use a certain weapon is what broke GW2 for me, that and the lack of trinity and the zerg fest that followed.

Would be nice if there is a way around this. I enjoy playing a necromancer with a staff and don't like the idea of being forced to use a dagger just to get the "best" spells. Anyone else feel this way or is it just me?

 

 

You mind skills tied to weapons and don't like how GW2 was a console-like dumbed down crapfest for soloists but you're ok with 8 skills up at once (which is even fewer than you get in GW2)?  8 skills up at once isn't an MMORPG.  8 skills at once is even beyond the simplistic lameness of consoles.

 

WoW clones have generally failed (most don't really fail but they fail to live up to expectations or the longevity of earlier MMORPGs) due to trying to be everything to everybody and especially due to too much focus on solo ez-mode and not nearly enough on grouping and challenge.

 

So along comes GW2, which isn't even really an MMORPG, it's a solo game with social elements.  TESO will be the same sewage and it looks like EQN is going the same way along with starting out F2P, which is like admitting your game sucks and is fail right out the door.  I guess we can call this POS style the "GW2 Clone" and try not to throw up.

 

WFT happened to real MMORPGs?  There was nothing wrong with the style of the original games that established the genre - the group focus and emphasis on actually doing something (challenge) for your rewards was good.  The games has a bit too much brutality in gameplay but that can be smoothed over.  There never was a need to shift the genre into solo ez-mode and to dumb it down further and further until MMORPGs aren't even MMORPGs anymore.

You can still have a successful MMORPG without having tons of soloists around because those are the people who bail out first - as soon as the single player campaign mode is done (the solo ez-mode 1-cap leveling).  Then they're off to help ruin "the next big thing"  How about someone create an MMORPG for people who actually LIKE the genre - people that want challenge, want to group, and want to have a good game worth playing for years on end?  Constantly trying to design MMORPGs for people who don't actually like the genre, don't want to level, don't have time to play, don't want to group - seems utterly moronic.

 

 

 

Premium MMORPGs do not feature built-in cheating via cash for gold pay 2 win. PLAY to win or don't play.

  thinlizzy

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/04/13
Posts: 69

8/12/13 2:20:36 AM#153
Originally posted by Voqar
Originally posted by diabel

Has this been officially confirmed? It seems SOE is promoting "freedom to play your way" yet force you to use specific weapons for skills? I don't mind 8 skills but being forced to use a certain weapon is what broke GW2 for me, that and the lack of trinity and the zerg fest that followed.

Would be nice if there is a way around this. I enjoy playing a necromancer with a staff and don't like the idea of being forced to use a dagger just to get the "best" spells. Anyone else feel this way or is it just me?

 

 

You mind skills tied to weapons and don't like how GW2 was a console-like dumbed down crapfest for soloists but you're ok with 8 skills up at once (which is even fewer than you get in GW2)?  8 skills up at once isn't an MMORPG.  8 skills at once is even beyond the simplistic lameness of consoles.

 

WoW clones have generally failed (most don't really fail but they fail to live up to expectations or the longevity of earlier MMORPGs) due to trying to be everything to everybody and especially due to too much focus on solo ez-mode and not nearly enough on grouping and challenge.

 

So along comes GW2, which isn't even really an MMORPG, it's a solo game with social elements.  TESO will be the same sewage and it looks like EQN is going the same way along with starting out F2P, which is like admitting your game sucks and is fail right out the door.  I guess we can call this POS style the "GW2 Clone" and try not to throw up.

 

WFT happened to real MMORPGs?  There was nothing wrong with the style of the original games that established the genre - the group focus and emphasis on actually doing something (challenge) for your rewards was good.  The games has a bit too much brutality in gameplay but that can be smoothed over.  There never was a need to shift the genre into solo ez-mode and to dumb it down further and further until MMORPGs aren't even MMORPGs anymore.

You can still have a successful MMORPG without having tons of soloists around because those are the people who bail out first - as soon as the single player campaign mode is done (the solo ez-mode 1-cap leveling).  Then they're off to help ruin "the next big thing"  How about someone create an MMORPG for people who actually LIKE the genre - people that want challenge, want to group, and want to have a good game worth playing for years on end?  Constantly trying to design MMORPGs for people who don't actually like the genre, don't want to level, don't have time to play, don't want to group - seems utterly moronic.

 

 

 

Whilst I dont disagree with your comments on the general direction of games and how this has killed the social dynamic that kept people playing EQ (and even WoW, which was not always 100% solo friendly) for so long.

I dont agree that solo = easy

The designers of many games have made EASY SOLO content

Nothing stops them from making hard solo content, they just choose not to.

This goes hand in hand with the often stated but incorrect idea that casual players want easy mode.

not having 12 hours of uninterupted time 3-5 days a week made you casual in the eyes of some EQ guilds, even if you averaged 50 hours a week in the game

Along with the other great myth... RAIDing is hard and thats why its the end game and gets the best candy.

Well design small group content can be crazy hard and unlike a 40,36,60 man raids there is no where to hide in a small group, do your job perfectly of the group fails and they KNOW IT WAS YOU.

 

So.. Skills on weapons

Not totally different to ...must have TH axe to use this skill

as long as they include LOTS OF WEAPONS then it will be ok.

i.e warrior can use, dagger/s shortsword/s longsword/s TH sword, axe small large battle and so on and so forth

IF they just have a few weapon combinations per class it will be too simple (for me) 

  ignore_me

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/04/11
Posts: 2034

8/12/13 2:51:28 AM#154

Please don't let this game have combat like Neverwinter Online.

I can take 8 buttons, but don't take away my ability to click on stuff, or make it so I have to point my screen at a target. Locking my first 4 to weapons kind of sucks, but I guess its better than locking me in to one weapon period.

Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  Vutar

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/10/09
Posts: 753

Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it. -George Santayana

8/12/13 3:41:30 AM#155
Originally posted by diabel

Has this been officially confirmed? It seems SOE is promoting "freedom to play your way" yet force you to use specific weapons for skills? I don't mind 8 skills but being forced to use a certain weapon is what broke GW2 for me, that and the lack of trinity and the zerg fest that followed.

Would be nice if there is a way around this. I enjoy playing a necromancer with a staff and don't like the idea of being forced to use a dagger just to get the "best" spells. Anyone else feel this way or is it just me?

 

 

They saw the dwindling numbers GW2 has and were like "We want that model!!!"

  Akso

Novice Member

Joined: 8/12/13
Posts: 4

8/12/13 3:07:47 PM#156
I dont know if you guys remember in EQ2 when they  introduced the AA system, the skill line were based on weapon skill, if you took the piercing line and used a sword, your aa's were useless, this failed so hard that they removed it, it would be very dumb from SOE to repeat that in EQNext in my opinion.
  Gnostik

Novice Member

Joined: 8/11/12
Posts: 47

8/24/13 4:42:48 PM#157
Originally posted by fizzlesticks
Originally posted by TaliskerDev These 4 abilities are earned over the progression of the class. 
 

Whaat??? So you're saying there will be a time we don't even have all our 8 abilities? What are you people thinking?

Um...what are YOU thinking? I have played these games for about 15 years now, and always begin with 1, maybe 2 abilities. Nobody gives players all their abilities at character creation, not even MOBAs. I can think of several reasons why doing so would be a bad idea; they all seem quite obvious.

  Gnostik

Novice Member

Joined: 8/11/12
Posts: 47

8/24/13 5:38:05 PM#158
Originally posted by diabel
I enjoy playing a necromancer with a staff and don't like the idea of being forced to use a dagger just to get the "best" spells. Anyone else feel this way or is it just me?

 

I think it makes perfect sense that the weapon you are wielding should have an effect on how you fight, at least for weapon-based abilities. It's being able to wield any equipment you want and still fight the same way that seems odd to me.

 

Now, for purely magical abilities, I could see an argument that weapon shouldn't matter. But this seems fairly open to debate, as magic isn't real and how it would be casted is sort of up to the imagination.

 

But given the choice between "weapon doesn't matter" and "weapon determines abilities", the latter is far more intuitive to me.

 

Now, making sure the different weapon choices are roughly equal in power and cool factor, that's a different issue. But balance will never be perfect. If being the "best" is a player's top concern, they will necessarily be forced into certain specs and abilities. Whether those are determined by weapon choice or not is sort of irrelevant. (In other words, even if staff Necromancer gets the same abilities as dagger Necromancer, Necromancer may still not have the "best" spells for a certain task. The question then becomes, "how attached are you to the Necromancer vs. being the best?" With a weapon-based system it simply changes to "how attached are you to using a staff vs. being the best?")

  wizardanim

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/24/07
Posts: 279

8/24/13 5:45:54 PM#159
Originally posted by diabel

Has this been officially confirmed? It seems SOE is promoting "freedom to play your way" yet force you to use specific weapons for skills? I don't mind 8 skills but being forced to use a certain weapon is what broke GW2 for me, that and the lack of trinity and the zerg fest that followed.

Would be nice if there is a way around this. I enjoy playing a necromancer with a staff and don't like the idea of being forced to use a dagger just to get the "best" spells. Anyone else feel this way or is it just me?

 

What if there were 50 kinds of daggers, each with skills that worked a little differently?  Would that give you enough options?

As for the orange text, the developers continue to deny that will be the outcome.  Please give them a chance to release the product before assuming the worst about the game.

We might very well get a chance to see how this works in landmark soon, with the Adventurer class they announced.

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