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General Discussion  » ESO, my EQ Next.

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51 posts found
  Kuanshu

Novice Member

Joined: 5/19/04
Posts: 277

8/11/13 10:31:05 AM#41

Hrmm lets see should I develop a game for all the cutting edge PC hardware or for all platforms and not force my customer to upgrade this time around and introduce more younger gamers to this genre

Let me know when you figure this one out

The more your involved, the less you see

Even ESO is more of an introductory MMO as they have stated multiple times...so if your hoping ESO is what EQ3 shoulda been you are jumping on the wrong bandwagon

  Lord.Bachus

Elite Member

Joined: 5/14/07
Posts: 8630

I believe in life before death... So dont forget to enjoy it while you still can.

8/11/13 2:00:00 PM#42
Originally posted by Kuanshu

Hrmm lets see should I develop a game for all the cutting edge PC hardware or for all platforms and not force my customer to upgrade this time around and introduce more younger gamers to this genre

Let me know when you figure this one out

The more your involved, the less you see

Even ESO is more of an introductory MMO as they have stated multiple times...so if your hoping ESO is what EQ3 shoulda been you are jumping on the wrong bandwagon

The answer to this is scaling...

 

build an engine that runs on 5 year old hardware and look okay... Make it scale to look top knotch at next years top hardware and you have an mmo to last long long time.   Cartoony or realistic graphics does not matter.  Annimations do...

 

Teso will be about adventures in a virtual world and so will EQN be.. Both are about story and lore, both have action based combat, but TESO has freedom of character building, where so far it feels like building characters in EQN is bound by restriction after restriction.

Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  jesusjuice69

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/07/13
Posts: 293

8/11/13 11:28:13 PM#43
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
Originally posted by Kuanshu

Hrmm lets see should I develop a game for all the cutting edge PC hardware or for all platforms and not force my customer to upgrade this time around and introduce more younger gamers to this genre

Let me know when you figure this one out

The more your involved, the less you see

Even ESO is more of an introductory MMO as they have stated multiple times...so if your hoping ESO is what EQ3 shoulda been you are jumping on the wrong bandwagon

The answer to this is scaling...

 

build an engine that runs on 5 year old hardware and look okay... Make it scale to look top knotch at next years top hardware and you have an mmo to last long long time.   Cartoony or realistic graphics does not matter.  Annimations do...

 

Teso will be about adventures in a virtual world and so will EQN be.. Both are about story and lore, both have action based combat, but TESO has freedom of character building, where so far it feels like building characters in EQN is bound by restriction after restriction.

I disagree about the art style, but if what you say is true then they got some serious work to do with the animations.

 

EQN has no restrictions as far as I know.  They are pretty much identical!

You can get all skills in the game.

Find skills in the word. 

Weapons have skills.

  Brabbit1987

Elite Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 717

8/12/13 4:41:53 AM#44
Originally posted by jesusjuice69
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
Originally posted by Kuanshu

Hrmm lets see should I develop a game for all the cutting edge PC hardware or for all platforms and not force my customer to upgrade this time around and introduce more younger gamers to this genre

Let me know when you figure this one out

The more your involved, the less you see

Even ESO is more of an introductory MMO as they have stated multiple times...so if your hoping ESO is what EQ3 shoulda been you are jumping on the wrong bandwagon

The answer to this is scaling...

 

build an engine that runs on 5 year old hardware and look okay... Make it scale to look top knotch at next years top hardware and you have an mmo to last long long time.   Cartoony or realistic graphics does not matter.  Annimations do...

 

Teso will be about adventures in a virtual world and so will EQN be.. Both are about story and lore, both have action based combat, but TESO has freedom of character building, where so far it feels like building characters in EQN is bound by restriction after restriction.

I disagree about the art style, but if what you say is true then they got some serious work to do with the animations.

 

EQN has no restrictions as far as I know.  They are pretty much identical!

You can get all skills in the game.

Find skills in the word. 

Weapons have skills.

Well to be fair, I don't think anyone knows "how" customizable the classes in EQN will be. You can get all the skills, but can you use them at any given time with out going through a few hoops to change your class? It be a pain if I have to switch class, switch weapons to match and all that junk every time I wanted to change. Maybe they already answered these questions, not sure though.

In ESO, you can have a sword out and push a button that uses magic, then hit another button to switch to archery. You can pretty much use any of your skills at any moment in time as long as you have the proper equipment and such. No class switching is even necessary. In other words it's like real life, assuming magic existed rofl. If I am holding a sword, why wouldn't I be able to shoot a fire spell from my other hand that is free? Why wouldn't I be able to put my sword away and take out a bow? Why wouldn't I be able to run up, grab a mace, and be able to use it right away? These things are what makes the Elder Scrolls games more interesting then most in my opinion. I have always hated class systems. Having classes is essentially telling you what you can and cannot do. Which is, limiting. Complete opposite of choices and customization.

  EvolvedMonky

Novice Member

Joined: 8/25/08
Posts: 562

8/12/13 3:48:57 PM#45

Just wanted to chime in some thoughts on the tech debate.  Now I didnt go to college for all the fancy computer tech and design. I went for Computer Science as in Programming. And it doesn't matter how fast the hardware is its just a hunk of metal unless we do something with it. 

And most developers wont mess with the hardware but will use an API. Now if both cards support all the requirments and features of an API there is no difference what card you have other than performance  . PCI-e mobo works the same weither you have IGU or a GPU. While yes the mechanics for the IGU to work as in using your system memory and such is different. How it works in the grand scheme of things is the same.  They all adhere to the same Architect design

Also PCI-e transfer rates are alot faster than current standared RAM (as in ddr3) PCI-e i think does 8gt(s) on each lane while DDR3 does 2.*gt(s) total, sure ddr5 is better which GPUs use but most system memory is still ddr3. Also dedicated on die memory will always be faster than accessing the system, like the cache on cpu (L2, L3).  Then theres power consumption. Current GPUs use more power than what can be placed on the bus thats why you have to connect it to the power supply. Sure you can do what most cpu do and add power connectors near the IGU but not the best thing to do.

Also Tablets and other handheld devices wont reach current graphic capabilities for the same reason why a Desktop will outperform a Laptop. Unless some new alien battery tech comes out, they just wont have the power to do it then there are other limiting factors that would come into play. So stop believing the PR hype.

 

Now on to the whole Consoles will beat pc.  Actually no both are going down, also the reason why microsoft turned there xbone into a household entertainment box instead of a pure gaming console. See big production gaming isnt seeing the return on the investment. The idea that the more you pump into the game = more profit isnt working.   If trends continue cheap smartphone/tablet games produce more profit vs investment.

Also something else to take note of. Tablet and specialy smartphone sales have leveled off. Samsung and the rest are freaking out because as they produce better and more powerful tablets and smart phones sales havent remained steady or increasing. In other words people arnt rushing out to buy the best newest hardware in mass.

  Brabbit1987

Elite Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 717

8/12/13 8:48:55 PM#46
Originally posted by EvolvedMonky

Just wanted to chime in some thoughts on the tech debate.  Now I didnt go to college for all the fancy computer tech and design. I went for Computer Science as in Programming. And it doesn't matter how fast the hardware is its just a hunk of metal unless we do something with it. 

And most developers wont mess with the hardware but will use an API. Now if both cards support all the requirments and features of an API there is no difference what card you have other than performance  . PCI-e mobo works the same weither you have IGU or a GPU. While yes the mechanics for the IGU to work as in using your system memory and such is different. How it works in the grand scheme of things is the same.  They all adhere to the same Architect design

Also PCI-e transfer rates are alot faster than current standared RAM (as in ddr3) PCI-e i think does 8gt(s) on each lane while DDR3 does 2.*gt(s) total, sure ddr5 is better which GPUs use but most system memory is still ddr3. Also dedicated on die memory will always be faster than accessing the system, like the cache on cpu (L2, L3).  Then theres power consumption. Current GPUs use more power than what can be placed on the bus thats why you have to connect it to the power supply. Sure you can do what most cpu do and add power connectors near the IGU but not the best thing to do.

Also Tablets and other handheld devices wont reach current graphic capabilities for the same reason why a Desktop will outperform a Laptop. Unless some new alien battery tech comes out, they just wont have the power to do it then there are other limiting factors that would come into play. So stop believing the PR hype.

 

Now on to the whole Consoles will beat pc.  Actually no both are going down, also the reason why microsoft turned there xbone into a household entertainment box instead of a pure gaming console. See big production gaming isnt seeing the return on the investment. The idea that the more you pump into the game = more profit isnt working.   If trends continue cheap smartphone/tablet games produce more profit vs investment.

Also something else to take note of. Tablet and specialy smartphone sales have leveled off. Samsung and the rest are freaking out because as they produce better and more powerful tablets and smart phones sales havent remained steady or increasing. In other words people arnt rushing out to buy the best newest hardware in mass.

I agree with everything said here, besides PCs going down. The reason I say it's unlikely is because I can't think of any moment in time where we would not benefit from a PC. PCs may become less popular, and may pertain to less people. However, I doubt they would stop making them. You still have the enthusiasts, gamers, companies, and artists and they are not disappearing. 

"The idea that the more you pump into the game = more profit isnt working. "

They are trying to fix that issue. It's isn't that it isn't working. It's that there are some problems that are preventing it from working. Such as used games. They are trying to come up with a way to fix it, but the consumers are not exactly on board. Example being the Xbox One.

Simply put, I do believe consoles will no longer have a purpose, which will increase PC sales once again. I suppose we could say PCs will eventually die if you consider a smaller version not a PC.

  jesusjuice69

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/07/13
Posts: 293

8/13/13 7:38:12 AM#47
Originally posted by EvolvedMonky

Just wanted to chime in some thoughts on the tech debate.  Now I didnt go to college for all the fancy computer tech and design. I went for Computer Science as in Programming. And it doesn't matter how fast the hardware is its just a hunk of metal unless we do something with it. 

And most developers wont mess with the hardware but will use an API. Now if both cards support all the requirments and features of an API there is no difference what card you have other than performance  . PCI-e mobo works the same weither you have IGU or a GPU. While yes the mechanics for the IGU to work as in using your system memory and such is different. How it works in the grand scheme of things is the same.  They all adhere to the same Architect design

Also PCI-e transfer rates are alot faster than current standared RAM (as in ddr3) PCI-e i think does 8gt(s) on each lane while DDR3 does 2.*gt(s) total, sure ddr5 is better which GPUs use but most system memory is still ddr3. Also dedicated on die memory will always be faster than accessing the system, like the cache on cpu (L2, L3).  Then theres power consumption. Current GPUs use more power than what can be placed on the bus thats why you have to connect it to the power supply. Sure you can do what most cpu do and add power connectors near the IGU but not the best thing to do.

Also Tablets and other handheld devices wont reach current graphic capabilities for the same reason why a Desktop will outperform a Laptop. Unless some new alien battery tech comes out, they just wont have the power to do it then there are other limiting factors that would come into play. So stop believing the PR hype.

 

Now on to the whole Consoles will beat pc.  Actually no both are going down, also the reason why microsoft turned there xbone into a household entertainment box instead of a pure gaming console. See big production gaming isnt seeing the return on the investment. The idea that the more you pump into the game = more profit isnt working.   If trends continue cheap smartphone/tablet games produce more profit vs investment.

Also something else to take note of. Tablet and specialy smartphone sales have leveled off. Samsung and the rest are freaking out because as they produce better and more powerful tablets and smart phones sales havent remained steady or increasing. In other words people arnt rushing out to buy the best newest hardware in mass.

I agree with most of what you are saying.

I don't think PC or Console game development is going anywhere though.  The return/ cost ratio is higher with those small cheap phone games, but the net returns aren't even remotely comparable.  If a game company spends $10,000 making bejewled, and make $100,000 from that investment, then they had a 10:1 return/cost.  However, if EA spends 20 million making CoD4, and gets a return of 80m, then the return is only 4:1, but they total return is grossly more.  As long as there is a demand for new games like CoD4, then there will always be someone to supply it. 

Another issue is  that there are so many indie game companies making those cheap easy games, that making a winner is almost like winning the lottery.

 

I think the problem with the smartphone and tablet sales is that the new technology that comes out is mathematically better, but it isn't functionally superior. 

  NagilumSadow

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/26/12
Posts: 274

8/16/13 3:19:07 AM#48
If we could only marry the Eq Next freedom and systems with ES lore, we might have the perfect mmo. Personally, I think EQ2 will be vastly better in terms of system, freedom and play.


http://wyrdgaming.blogspot.com/

  fistorm

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/05/08
Posts: 792

 
OP  8/16/13 9:32:42 AM#49
Originally posted by NagilumSadow
If we could only marry the Eq Next freedom and systems with ES lore, we might have the perfect mmo. Personally, I think EQ2 will be vastly better in terms of system, freedom and play.

I was thinking the same thing Nagilum Sadow.  I was actually hoping we could marry the ESO graphics with the EQ lore but either way is fine with me because both games have excellent lore.  I care about story and realistic graphics the most in any video game, after that,  I think game mechanics always come after those two.

Either way I'm so happy one of the two (ESO), is being released and will satisfy my two main wants for me for the next five years atleast.

  kingotnw

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/13/04
Posts: 103

8/17/13 12:45:57 PM#50
ESO isn't going to be my cup of tea... EQN is going to be my EQN... Lol. That being said, I see a lot of people in this thread who haven't played Morrowind. You are doing yourself a disservice. IMO the only game in the series that is better is Skyrim. It won't have graphics that will knock you on your ass, but the game itself is amazing.
  Lord.Bachus

Elite Member

Joined: 5/14/07
Posts: 8630

I believe in life before death... So dont forget to enjoy it while you still can.

8/17/13 12:55:45 PM#51
Originally posted by kingotnw
ESO isn't going to be my cup of tea... EQN is going to be my EQN... Lol. That being said, I see a lot of people in this thread who haven't played Morrowind. You are doing yourself a disservice. IMO the only game in the series that is better is Skyrim. It won't have graphics that will knock you on your ass, but the game itself is amazing.

How can this be?

 

The best game in the series was daggerfall, if you can see trough the graphics... there is so many things in Daggerfall which would be great additions to almost any MMO

Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

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