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General Discussion  » ESO, my EQ Next.

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51 posts found
  Daaken

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/01/13
Posts: 160

“It is better to fail in originality than to succeed in imitation.”

8/08/13 5:02:12 PM#21
Originally posted by Theocritus
Im expecting ESO to be alo like the other elder scrolls games: one month of good entertainment and thats about it.

 Sadly you may be right.  A few months for me and then nada.

Random Forum Poster: I want an MMO that is different, original and fun.

Me: So you want something like EQN

Them: Nah dude, I want a Holy Trinity, Tab Target combat, Instanced Raiding, and Rigid classes.

Me: Double Facepalm.

  Brabbit1987

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 613

8/08/13 5:04:08 PM#22
Originally posted by Kuanshu

My first console was an atari 2600 and I haven't played console games much since that time until recently. My first computer was an APPLE IIE and even though I took a break from computers for roughly a decade during the later part of the 80s until well into the 90s I considered myself solely a PC gamer throughout the years. I built my own rigs from the 90s until what I considered my last creation which I invested $2500 into back in 2009 as it was quite the beast and would surely still be considered a decent rig today. I know wtf I am talking about much more then you can imagine when I refer to gaming and technology. Ya'll can make your inept judgements whilst you pass time doing that which is familiar to you. We are all obviously consumers in your own right and as good consumers we are a walking advertisements to some degree or another.

Isn't it interesting how popular Minecraft was and is amongst much of the younger generation? I really hope ya'll paid attention recently during the Everquest Next Debut. Some of us simply smile as observing trends without any effort or regard is something many take for granted. If you see where things are going you pretty much have also realized how it involves you and others accordingly.

Meanwhile many of us want what we want...is it truly something we really want or is there something more to it...hmmm

ESO, EQN, FFXIV, Warhammer 40K, etc...MMOs are heading to next generation consoles as a cost effective entertainment console where everyone is on the same playing field in a massively multiplayer setting is where its going...

Another person stating the exact opposite of pretty much what the entire gaming industry is saying.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but consoles are in trouble after this generation. For all you so called people who know what your talking about, you really don't read much and keep up with the industry news do you?

The best hope for consoles is to become living room PCs.

Also, you act like this is the first time MMOs have been on consoles, you must be very forgetful.

So much for you knowing what you are talking about. Seems to me like you know almost nothing. Unless you want to make some corrections there.

 

Edit: I find it very offensive when people state they know what they are taking about, and then follow by stating false information.

  Kuanshu

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/19/04
Posts: 244

8/08/13 5:32:48 PM#23
Originally posted by Brabbit1987
Originally posted by Kuanshu

My first console was an atari 2600 and I haven't played console games much since that time until recently. My first computer was an APPLE IIE and even though I took a break from computers for roughly a decade during the later part of the 80s until well into the 90s I considered myself solely a PC gamer throughout the years. I built my own rigs from the 90s until what I considered my last creation which I invested $2500 into back in 2009 as it was quite the beast and would surely still be considered a decent rig today. I know wtf I am talking about much more then you can imagine when I refer to gaming and technology. Ya'll can make your inept judgements whilst you pass time doing that which is familiar to you. We are all obviously consumers in your own right and as good consumers we are a walking advertisements to some degree or another.

Isn't it interesting how popular Minecraft was and is amongst much of the younger generation? I really hope ya'll paid attention recently during the Everquest Next Debut. Some of us simply smile as observing trends without any effort or regard is something many take for granted. If you see where things are going you pretty much have also realized how it involves you and others accordingly.

Meanwhile many of us want what we want...is it truly something we really want or is there something more to it...hmmm

ESO, EQN, FFXIV, Warhammer 40K, etc...MMOs are heading to next generation consoles as a cost effective entertainment console where everyone is on the same playing field in a massively multiplayer setting is where its going...

Another person stating the exact opposite of pretty much what the entire gaming industry is saying.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but consoles are in trouble after this generation. For all you so called people who know what your talking about, you really don't read much and keep up with the industry news do you?

The best hope for consoles is to become living room PCs.

Also, you act like this is the first time MMOs have been on consoles, you must be very forgetful.

So much for you knowing what you are talking about. Seems to me like you know almost nothing. Unless you want to make some corrections there.

 

Edit: I find it very offensive when people state they know what they are taking about, and then follow by stating false information.

Its a good thing you live in your reality as much as I live in mine...

Also if you are so easily offended, then you must be used to it by now :)

If you honestly believe the best we can hope for is living room PCs then you severely lack imagination and foresight

Glad your self righteous and indignant attitude isn't too pretentious...or is it

What is true or false is surely not determined by you or who you take it upon yourself to speak for

Proof is in the pudding as they say and there are alot more factors here involved then you would care to consider

If your still offended then my post was moderately successful

This is why we game :)

 

  Brabbit1987

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 613

8/08/13 5:47:42 PM#24
Originally posted by Kuanshu
Originally posted by Brabbit1987
Originally posted by Kuanshu

My first console was an atari 2600 and I haven't played console games much since that time until recently. My first computer was an APPLE IIE and even though I took a break from computers for roughly a decade during the later part of the 80s until well into the 90s I considered myself solely a PC gamer throughout the years. I built my own rigs from the 90s until what I considered my last creation which I invested $2500 into back in 2009 as it was quite the beast and would surely still be considered a decent rig today. I know wtf I am talking about much more then you can imagine when I refer to gaming and technology. Ya'll can make your inept judgements whilst you pass time doing that which is familiar to you. We are all obviously consumers in your own right and as good consumers we are a walking advertisements to some degree or another.

Isn't it interesting how popular Minecraft was and is amongst much of the younger generation? I really hope ya'll paid attention recently during the Everquest Next Debut. Some of us simply smile as observing trends without any effort or regard is something many take for granted. If you see where things are going you pretty much have also realized how it involves you and others accordingly.

Meanwhile many of us want what we want...is it truly something we really want or is there something more to it...hmmm

ESO, EQN, FFXIV, Warhammer 40K, etc...MMOs are heading to next generation consoles as a cost effective entertainment console where everyone is on the same playing field in a massively multiplayer setting is where its going...

Another person stating the exact opposite of pretty much what the entire gaming industry is saying.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but consoles are in trouble after this generation. For all you so called people who know what your talking about, you really don't read much and keep up with the industry news do you?

The best hope for consoles is to become living room PCs.

Also, you act like this is the first time MMOs have been on consoles, you must be very forgetful.

So much for you knowing what you are talking about. Seems to me like you know almost nothing. Unless you want to make some corrections there.

 

Edit: I find it very offensive when people state they know what they are taking about, and then follow by stating false information.

Its a good thing you live in your reality as much as I live in mine...

Also if you are so easily offended, then you must be used to it by now :)

If you honestly believe the best we can hope for is living room PCs then you severely lack imagination and foresight

Glad your self righteous and indignant attitude isn't too pretentious...or is it

What is true or false is surely not determined by you or who you take it upon yourself to speak for

Proof is in the pudding as they say and there are alot more factors here involved then you would care to consider

If your still offended then my post was moderately successful

This is why we game :)

 

Difference is, I have proof. The cost for hardware is going down for computers. Eventually that price will be at the same point of the cost of a console for the same performance. This has been an on going discussion in the game industry. If you don't beleive me, ask Valve, even they are looking to move PCs to the living room.

If you want I can start linking 100s of articles on what I am basing this on, and shoot down all your claims. Then what would you say then? 

I work in the game industry, and I am fairly up to date with what is going on. Can you say the same?

  Kuanshu

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/19/04
Posts: 244

8/08/13 6:11:30 PM#25

Ahh there it is...it hits close to home

Change is the only constant...get used to it or you got a long road to hoe

I would gather I have witnessed and observed more in my time

If you know anything about computers then you should know that all the technology it is based on, utilizes the same principles and yet you are much like alot of so called tech savvy opinionated types who believe all this is going somewhere and they need to stay on the cutting edge or they are not going to be a part of the latest and greatest

Ive observed technology and honestly I am not even remotely amused or even impressed, I am more like oh so thats why it is the way it is....rather then oh ya I am so intelligent, experienced, and progressively minded....I prefer to look at the big picture and not take myself so freakin seriously

Look around you....you call all these inventions genius? You believe that we should be thankful we live in a technologically advanced era?

If it doesn't come full circle you for one are going to wish otherwise, or are you one of those types on the freight train to oblivion?

Corporatism is more like a religion

WOW

 

  Brabbit1987

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 613

8/08/13 6:24:25 PM#26
Originally posted by Kuanshu

Ahh there it is...it hits close to home

Change is the only constant...get used to it or you got a long road to hoe

I would gather I have witnessed and observed more in my time

If you know anything about computers then you should know that all the technology it is based on, utilizes the same principles and yet you are much like alot of so called tech savvy opinionated types who believe all this is going somewhere and they need to stay on the cutting edge or they are not going to be a part of the latest and greatest

Ive observed technology and honestly I am not even remotely amused or even impressed, I am more like oh so thats why it is the way it is....rather then oh ya I am so intelligent, experienced, and progressively minded....I prefer to look at the big picture and not take myself so freakin seriously

Look around you....you call all these inventions genius? You believe that we should be thankful we live in a technologically advanced era?

If it doesn't come full circle you for one are going to wish otherwise, or are you one of those types on the freight train to oblivion?

Corporatism is more like a religion

WOW

 

Really lost you here. No idea what your talking about.

I simply go by what is currently occurring in the world and industry. It isn't about being impressed, it's about science and technology. It's about the consumers. The gaming industry in the last generation has seen major changes. With the mobile market growing, and more casual players, to steam growing and becoming the lead in PC sales. Consoles are simply becoming less and less relevant. Consoles are going to have to do something new, and different to be able to remain relevant to gaming.

Consoles where created because they are a cheaper way to play games. Instead of spending $2000 on a computer, you can spend $300 - 400 on a console. This benefit soon will no longer exist. There will no longer be any purpose.

It's just common sense. Would you buy a computer or a console if it performed exactly the same and costed exactly the same? Chances are you would buy the computer because not only can it do EVERYTHING a console can, it can do a  whole lot more. It's a lot less limited and a more open platform. 

Having a single platform will also be a very large benefit for developers. No more of the porting, and no more of the exclusives. 

  Kuanshu

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/19/04
Posts: 244

8/08/13 6:54:33 PM#27

If anything PCs are more of a thing of the past...you just haven't got the memo yet

Consoles were not created as a cheaper means of gaming...lol that is just silly

Try a more accessible way of gaming for all involved and you may be on to something

We are all part of this huge test market in more ways then most care to imagine

I for one am biding my time until the cat is let out of the bag so to speak...shant be long now

  remyburke

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/03/04
Posts: 2961

I liked MMOs better when gamers didn't play them, and just geeks did.

8/08/13 6:55:18 PM#28
Your "Everquest Next", My "OMG Again?"

Playing: ESO, Hearthstone and DayZ

Played: AC1, AC2, AO, AoC, CO, CoX, DAoC, DCUO, DN, EVE, EQ1, EQ2,
FE, FFXI, FFXIV, FF, GW1, GW2, Istaria, L2, LoTRO, MO, MxO, NW, Rift, RoE,
Ryzom, SB, SWG, SWTOR, TERA, TSW, WAR, WoW, WURM...

  Brabbit1987

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 613

8/08/13 9:11:45 PM#29
Originally posted by Kuanshu

If anything PCs are more of a thing of the past...you just haven't got the memo yet

Consoles were not created as a cheaper means of gaming...lol that is just silly

Try a more accessible way of gaming for all involved and you may be on to something

We are all part of this huge test market in more ways then most care to imagine

I for one am biding my time until the cat is let out of the bag so to speak...shant be long now

Well, think I am done talking to you. Don't think I will get anywhere with someone like you. Be like talking to one of those hippy conspiracy theorists. -.- Doesn't matter how much proof I show.

  Alders

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/28/10
Posts: 1546

I cannot fiddle but I can make a great state of a small city.

8/08/13 9:18:19 PM#30

I'm not sure if the irony is intended or not, but i don't think you'll find something less similar to ES or EQ than ESO.

  jesusjuice69

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/07/13
Posts: 293

8/09/13 6:41:46 PM#31
Originally posted by Brabbit1987
Originally posted by jesusjuice69
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
Originally posted by jesusjuice69
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
Originally posted by Brabbit1987

My 1 year old Alienware top knotch gaming laptop is still faster then the next gen consoles...  i give it a year from now and windows 8 tablets will outperform the next gen consoles ...  just connect them trough their wireless HDMi to your tele and use your tablet as the controller..

 

Consoles are so last decade... 

Tablets have no room for a physical video card, so don't hold your breadth. 

It is all built on board, and that has serious limitations.

 

Have you ever tried to play a game on a non-gaming laptop?

Try it an you will see.

You are mistaken, even the next generation consoles are using mobile graphics solutions... Nvidi has confirmed that current day mobile graphics will be possible in next years tablets.  

The only downside is battery life, but then as long as you use your build in CPU graphics solution the added graphics chip will not use any resources.

No, I am not wrong.

 

Sure, technology increases exponentially so nvidia isn't wrong, but how long will that take?  Also, just what is 'current day mobile grpahics' exactly?  That bar can be very low or very high. 

 

I only use intel CPUs atm, as they are far superior gaming processors.  However, the Intel® HD Graphics 4000 is crap, and AMD is supposedly ahead, so lets see what google tells us.

AMD's trinity APU - Sept 2012

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2010666/amd-announces-trinity-apus-superb-graphics-improved-cpu.html

"Trinity's built-in AMD Radeon HD 7660D GPU includes 384 graphics cores (which AMD calls stream processors) running at 800MHz. It's worth noting that this number of stream cores gives the 7660D higher potential performance than AMD's entry-level discrete GPUs, such as the Radeon HD 7450"

A 7450 won't run any recent game well.

Its so bad, I can't even find decent benchmarks.

 

The next gen consoles are mid grade PC game rigs at best.

They do use AMD APU, which is interesting, but I am guessing it is unique in design.

http://asia.cnet.com/xbox-ones-gpu-not-as-powerful-as-ps4s-62221459.htm

That is about the equivalent of GTX 650 ti to 660, and the 700 series will probably be out before either this game or those consoles even get here!

 

Regardless, it is going to be awhile before they miniaturize the APU to a point that tablets can play even dated games.

The point is, these APUs will eventually surpass discrete cards. So yes, you are technically wrong. You stated that on board graphics have serious limitations. That is a statement that is entirely false. It is the other way around. Discrete cards have limitations due to having to communicate over the board to the cpu. While onboard graphics communicates directly with the cpu. It's much faster.

You have to remember AMD's APUs are new. Compare their first APU with their newest going into the consoles, and you will see the rate of performance is increasing fairly quickly. Matter of fact, AMD is currently ruling the mobile market now.

In the past it was clearly impossible to play a game such as Crysis with out a discrete card. Now it's easily possible, and it runs at a playable speed. Again it may not be better then discrete cards yet, but again, it's new. Needs to play a bit of catch up.

No, no they won't.   At least not anytime soon.

I am sorry, but you clearly know nothing about the tech industry.

  Brabbit1987

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 613

8/09/13 8:27:19 PM#32
Originally posted by jesusjuice69
Originally posted by Brabbit1987
Originally posted by jesusjuice69
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
Originally posted by jesusjuice69
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
Originally posted by Brabbit1987

My 1 year old Alienware top knotch gaming laptop is still faster then the next gen consoles...  i give it a year from now and windows 8 tablets will outperform the next gen consoles ...  just connect them trough their wireless HDMi to your tele and use your tablet as the controller..

 

Consoles are so last decade... 

Tablets have no room for a physical video card, so don't hold your breadth. 

It is all built on board, and that has serious limitations.

 

Have you ever tried to play a game on a non-gaming laptop?

Try it an you will see.

You are mistaken, even the next generation consoles are using mobile graphics solutions... Nvidi has confirmed that current day mobile graphics will be possible in next years tablets.  

The only downside is battery life, but then as long as you use your build in CPU graphics solution the added graphics chip will not use any resources.

No, I am not wrong.

 

Sure, technology increases exponentially so nvidia isn't wrong, but how long will that take?  Also, just what is 'current day mobile grpahics' exactly?  That bar can be very low or very high. 

 

I only use intel CPUs atm, as they are far superior gaming processors.  However, the Intel® HD Graphics 4000 is crap, and AMD is supposedly ahead, so lets see what google tells us.

AMD's trinity APU - Sept 2012

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2010666/amd-announces-trinity-apus-superb-graphics-improved-cpu.html

"Trinity's built-in AMD Radeon HD 7660D GPU includes 384 graphics cores (which AMD calls stream processors) running at 800MHz. It's worth noting that this number of stream cores gives the 7660D higher potential performance than AMD's entry-level discrete GPUs, such as the Radeon HD 7450"

A 7450 won't run any recent game well.

Its so bad, I can't even find decent benchmarks.

 

The next gen consoles are mid grade PC game rigs at best.

They do use AMD APU, which is interesting, but I am guessing it is unique in design.

http://asia.cnet.com/xbox-ones-gpu-not-as-powerful-as-ps4s-62221459.htm

That is about the equivalent of GTX 650 ti to 660, and the 700 series will probably be out before either this game or those consoles even get here!

 

Regardless, it is going to be awhile before they miniaturize the APU to a point that tablets can play even dated games.

The point is, these APUs will eventually surpass discrete cards. So yes, you are technically wrong. You stated that on board graphics have serious limitations. That is a statement that is entirely false. It is the other way around. Discrete cards have limitations due to having to communicate over the board to the cpu. While onboard graphics communicates directly with the cpu. It's much faster.

You have to remember AMD's APUs are new. Compare their first APU with their newest going into the consoles, and you will see the rate of performance is increasing fairly quickly. Matter of fact, AMD is currently ruling the mobile market now.

In the past it was clearly impossible to play a game such as Crysis with out a discrete card. Now it's easily possible, and it runs at a playable speed. Again it may not be better then discrete cards yet, but again, it's new. Needs to play a bit of catch up.

No, no they won't.   At least not anytime soon.

I am sorry, but you clearly know nothing about the tech industry.

Really? Tell that to the schools that gave me my degrees and certifications rofl. Also, you sentences contradict themselves, you just said no they won't and then said at least not anytime soon. It can't be both, it either will or will not happen. You disagreed and then agreed.

Yet I am the one that knows nothing?

Also, it WILL happen. Unless you want to explain to me, why you think it will not?

Also try and provide a better answer then a childish naaa aaa response. Show proof of your claims. I already clearly stated that by having a CPU and Graphics on board using the same chip increases the speed at which communications happen between the 2. Also, would be nice if you explained to me why you think you know more then AMD, since they agree with me.

  jesusjuice69

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/07/13
Posts: 293

8/10/13 10:20:00 PM#33
Originally posted by Brabbit1987
Originally posted by jesusjuice69
Originally posted by Brabbit1987
Originally posted by jesusjuice69
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
Originally posted by jesusjuice69
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
Originally posted by Brabbit1987

My 1 year old Alienware top knotch gaming laptop is still faster then the next gen consoles...  i give it a year from now and windows 8 tablets will outperform the next gen consoles ...  just connect them trough their wireless HDMi to your tele and use your tablet as the controller..

 

Consoles are so last decade... 

Tablets have no room for a physical video card, so don't hold your breadth. 

It is all built on board, and that has serious limitations.

 

Have you ever tried to play a game on a non-gaming laptop?

Try it an you will see.

You are mistaken, even the next generation consoles are using mobile graphics solutions... Nvidi has confirmed that current day mobile graphics will be possible in next years tablets.  

The only downside is battery life, but then as long as you use your build in CPU graphics solution the added graphics chip will not use any resources.

No, I am not wrong.

 

Sure, technology increases exponentially so nvidia isn't wrong, but how long will that take?  Also, just what is 'current day mobile grpahics' exactly?  That bar can be very low or very high. 

 

I only use intel CPUs atm, as they are far superior gaming processors.  However, the Intel® HD Graphics 4000 is crap, and AMD is supposedly ahead, so lets see what google tells us.

AMD's trinity APU - Sept 2012

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2010666/amd-announces-trinity-apus-superb-graphics-improved-cpu.html

"Trinity's built-in AMD Radeon HD 7660D GPU includes 384 graphics cores (which AMD calls stream processors) running at 800MHz. It's worth noting that this number of stream cores gives the 7660D higher potential performance than AMD's entry-level discrete GPUs, such as the Radeon HD 7450"

A 7450 won't run any recent game well.

Its so bad, I can't even find decent benchmarks.

 

The next gen consoles are mid grade PC game rigs at best.

They do use AMD APU, which is interesting, but I am guessing it is unique in design.

http://asia.cnet.com/xbox-ones-gpu-not-as-powerful-as-ps4s-62221459.htm

That is about the equivalent of GTX 650 ti to 660, and the 700 series will probably be out before either this game or those consoles even get here!

 

Regardless, it is going to be awhile before they miniaturize the APU to a point that tablets can play even dated games.

The point is, these APUs will eventually surpass discrete cards. So yes, you are technically wrong. You stated that on board graphics have serious limitations. That is a statement that is entirely false. It is the other way around. Discrete cards have limitations due to having to communicate over the board to the cpu. While onboard graphics communicates directly with the cpu. It's much faster.

You have to remember AMD's APUs are new. Compare their first APU with their newest going into the consoles, and you will see the rate of performance is increasing fairly quickly. Matter of fact, AMD is currently ruling the mobile market now.

In the past it was clearly impossible to play a game such as Crysis with out a discrete card. Now it's easily possible, and it runs at a playable speed. Again it may not be better then discrete cards yet, but again, it's new. Needs to play a bit of catch up.

No, no they won't.   At least not anytime soon.

I am sorry, but you clearly know nothing about the tech industry.

Really? Tell that to the schools that gave me my degrees and certifications rofl. Also, you sentences contradict themselves, you just said no they won't and then said at least not anytime soon. It can't be both, it either will or will not happen. You disagreed and then agreed.

Yet I am the one that knows nothing?

Also, it WILL happen. Unless you want to explain to me, why you think it will not?

Also try and provide a better answer then a childish naaa aaa response. Show proof of your claims. I already clearly stated that by having a CPU and Graphics on board using the same chip increases the speed at which communications happen between the 2. Also, would be nice if you explained to me why you think you know more then AMD, since they agree with me.

A degree in what?  Let me guess, A+ certification?  Yes, you know nothing.

You are right they do slightly contradict.  It is a close call between never, and stupidly unlikely.  I am not so arrogant as to think I can predict the future, unlike someone else.

 

Childish responses?  I am the ones posting sources!  The best APU tech available right now, which is specialized and took millions to develop, is less than 1/3 the power of current day top of the line cards.  AND ITS NOT EVEN ON THE MARKET YET!  The next gen graphics cards will be out at the same time, and it will likely be 1/4.

Besides, the burden of proof is on you sir.  You are the one saying something contradictory to what is happening within the Higher end graphic market place right now.  The APU has a huge chasm to clear before it becomes even close to matching current day top of the line cards.  They can't even be upgraded, which makes them far less popular in the PC gaming industry.  There are also huge differences in size!  Size matters when it comes to computing power!  

Finally, and most importantly, we are getting close to the atomic scale with our architecture.  There isn't much room left for significant improvements, unless something revolutionary happens.

And even if we pretend something does happen, like layering chips, then the same applies to standalone graphics cards.  Then we are back to the previous point of size matters.  Ohh and layering would only delay the end of Moore's Law!

 

  Brabbit1987

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 613

8/11/13 3:06:24 AM#34
Originally posted by jesusjuice69
Originally posted by Brabbit1987
Originally posted by jesusjuice69
Originally posted by Brabbit1987
Originally posted by jesusjuice69
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
Originally posted by jesusjuice69
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
Originally posted by Brabbit1987

My 1 year old Alienware top knotch gaming laptop is still faster then the next gen consoles...  i give it a year from now and windows 8 tablets will outperform the next gen consoles ...  just connect them trough their wireless HDMi to your tele and use your tablet as the controller..

 

Consoles are so last decade... 

Tablets have no room for a physical video card, so don't hold your breadth. 

It is all built on board, and that has serious limitations.

 

Have you ever tried to play a game on a non-gaming laptop?

Try it an you will see.

You are mistaken, even the next generation consoles are using mobile graphics solutions... Nvidi has confirmed that current day mobile graphics will be possible in next years tablets.  

The only downside is battery life, but then as long as you use your build in CPU graphics solution the added graphics chip will not use any resources.

No, I am not wrong.

 

Sure, technology increases exponentially so nvidia isn't wrong, but how long will that take?  Also, just what is 'current day mobile grpahics' exactly?  That bar can be very low or very high. 

 

I only use intel CPUs atm, as they are far superior gaming processors.  However, the Intel® HD Graphics 4000 is crap, and AMD is supposedly ahead, so lets see what google tells us.

AMD's trinity APU - Sept 2012

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2010666/amd-announces-trinity-apus-superb-graphics-improved-cpu.html

"Trinity's built-in AMD Radeon HD 7660D GPU includes 384 graphics cores (which AMD calls stream processors) running at 800MHz. It's worth noting that this number of stream cores gives the 7660D higher potential performance than AMD's entry-level discrete GPUs, such as the Radeon HD 7450"

A 7450 won't run any recent game well.

Its so bad, I can't even find decent benchmarks.

 

The next gen consoles are mid grade PC game rigs at best.

They do use AMD APU, which is interesting, but I am guessing it is unique in design.

http://asia.cnet.com/xbox-ones-gpu-not-as-powerful-as-ps4s-62221459.htm

That is about the equivalent of GTX 650 ti to 660, and the 700 series will probably be out before either this game or those consoles even get here!

 

Regardless, it is going to be awhile before they miniaturize the APU to a point that tablets can play even dated games.

The point is, these APUs will eventually surpass discrete cards. So yes, you are technically wrong. You stated that on board graphics have serious limitations. That is a statement that is entirely false. It is the other way around. Discrete cards have limitations due to having to communicate over the board to the cpu. While onboard graphics communicates directly with the cpu. It's much faster.

You have to remember AMD's APUs are new. Compare their first APU with their newest going into the consoles, and you will see the rate of performance is increasing fairly quickly. Matter of fact, AMD is currently ruling the mobile market now.

In the past it was clearly impossible to play a game such as Crysis with out a discrete card. Now it's easily possible, and it runs at a playable speed. Again it may not be better then discrete cards yet, but again, it's new. Needs to play a bit of catch up.

No, no they won't.   At least not anytime soon.

I am sorry, but you clearly know nothing about the tech industry.

Really? Tell that to the schools that gave me my degrees and certifications rofl. Also, you sentences contradict themselves, you just said no they won't and then said at least not anytime soon. It can't be both, it either will or will not happen. You disagreed and then agreed.

Yet I am the one that knows nothing?

Also, it WILL happen. Unless you want to explain to me, why you think it will not?

Also try and provide a better answer then a childish naaa aaa response. Show proof of your claims. I already clearly stated that by having a CPU and Graphics on board using the same chip increases the speed at which communications happen between the 2. Also, would be nice if you explained to me why you think you know more then AMD, since they agree with me.

A degree in what?  Let me guess, A+ certification?  Yes, you know nothing.

You are right they do slightly contradict.  It is a close call between never, and stupidly unlikely.  I am not so arrogant as to think I can predict the future, unlike someone else.

 

Childish responses?  I am the ones posting sources!  The best APU tech available right now, which is specialized and took millions to develop, is less than 1/3 the power of current day top of the line cards.  AND ITS NOT EVEN ON THE MARKET YET!  The next gen graphics cards will be out at the same time, and it will likely be 1/4.

Besides, the burden of proof is on you sir.  You are the one saying something contradictory to what is happening within the Higher end graphic market place right now.  The APU has a huge chasm to clear before it becomes even close to matching current day top of the line cards.  They can't even be upgraded, which makes them far less popular in the PC gaming industry.  There are also huge differences in size!  Size matters when it comes to computing power!  

Finally, and most importantly, we are getting close to the atomic scale with our architecture.  There isn't much room left for significant improvements, unless something revolutionary happens.

And even if we pretend something does happen, like layering chips, then the same applies to standalone graphics cards.  Then we are back to the previous point of size matters.  Ohh and layering would only delay the end of Moore's Law!

 

Telecommunications trade degree, Fiber Optic Tech Certifications, Cisco Certifications, Bachelors of Computer Science, and I also have a lot of training in video games when I went to The Art Institute, though I do not have a degree for that. 

As for your sources, where are they? I don't see any sources, I just see all talk and no proof.

As for my proof? This discussion started to do with Tablets. Technology loves to go mobile. You should know that. Tell me how they are going to do that, with a discrete bulky graphics card? Do you think Computers will always remain the same size? Sure we can also suggest the discrete graphics card will get smaller, however, why bother when you can use integrated graphics which have been on the rise. It's much cheaper as well since it is fewer components.

Alright, so I will admit, you are right, integrated graphics will actually never surpass discrete graphics performance wise. But how about cost/performance? It will most certainly surpass discrete cards with in this area. I consider that surpassing discrete cards, because eventually there will be no need for them. More power doesn't mean anything if you have nothing to use that power with. Why bother using a discrete solution if you can achieve the same with a cheaper integrated solution? Wonder if this is the reason why the new consoles are using Integrated graphics .. hmmm makes you think.

Don't forget, you are the one who stated integrated graphics has limitations. You are the one who is mistaken about this tech. I own an AMD A8 Llano APU. While it most certainly isn't something to brag about. It most certainly does do it's job. It plays most games perfectly fine. This A8 is old though. It no where near the performance of current APU. 

You also said you can't upgrade an APU, which is a flat out lie. You most certainly can, it's the same as upgrading your CPU. It's why I can switch out my A8, for an A6 and it still works. 

However, all these have limitations of course, and the same goes with discrete cards as well. A new socket for the APU will come out and you will no longer be able to upgrade. As for a graphics card, the same happens to an extent. You can upgrade the card, but if it bottle necks the CPU, the upgrade was pretty much worthless. You can only upgrade till you hit that limit.

The benefit about upgrading a APU, is it cost less, and it's technically upgrading 2 components, CPU and GPU at the same time.

If they keep improving as they do, to think integrated graphics will remain in the back seat would be stupid. As for limitations, where are they? They may not be as powerful, but cost/performance, as well as size, does not scream limited to me. Those are very huge benefits.

Also, the communication between the CPU and GPU is much better with integrated solutions, though I already mentioned that 1000 times.

  jesusjuice69

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/07/13
Posts: 293

8/11/13 3:26:30 AM#35

All I was saying was they wouldn't surpass standalone graphic cards in power.

 

As far as the future of mobile devices, then yes APU is king.

 

http://www.guildwarsinsider.com/and-the-verdict-of-guild-wars-2-on-windows-8-is/

For those of you looking to purchase one of the upcoming x86-based Windows 8 tablets such as the Microsoft Surface Pro or the Samsung ATIV Smart PC Pro, we can confirm that Guild Wars 2 will be playable on those devices.

 

They are basically mini-laptops.

  Brabbit1987

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 613

8/11/13 4:36:32 AM#36
Originally posted by jesusjuice69

All I was saying was they wouldn't surpass standalone graphic cards in power.

 

As far as the future of mobile devices, then yet APU is king.

 

http://www.guildwarsinsider.com/and-the-verdict-of-guild-wars-2-on-windows-8-is/

For those of you looking to purchase one of the upcoming x86-based Windows 8 tablets such as the Microsoft Surface Pro or the Samsung ATIV Smart PC Pro, we can confirm that Guild Wars 2 will be playable on those devices.

 

They are basically mini-laptops.

Well, guess that ends the debate. Wasn't expecting you to agree for some reason. Maybe I am to used to trolls everywhere XD.

  Lord.Bachus

Elite Member

Joined: 5/14/07
Posts: 8124

I believe in life before death... So dont forget to enjoy it while you still can.

8/11/13 6:17:43 AM#37
Originally posted by jesusjuice69

All I was saying was they wouldn't surpass standalone graphic cards in power.

 

As far as the future of mobile devices, then yes APU is king.

 

http://www.guildwarsinsider.com/and-the-verdict-of-guild-wars-2-on-windows-8-is/

For those of you looking to purchase one of the upcoming x86-based Windows 8 tablets such as the Microsoft Surface Pro or the Samsung ATIV Smart PC Pro, we can confirm that Guild Wars 2 will be playable on those devices.

 

They are basically mini-laptops.

Our machine with the Intel HD Graphics integrated GPU averaged frame rates in the mid-20′s on low settings at 1280×720

 

I would not call that playable, i was referring to mobile graphics cards at very low power, but not at integrated graphics.   20 fps at 1280 gives not even 10 fps at a full HD tablet which will be the standard.

No, Next year we will see tablets with much much more GPU power and even better scaled CPU power management, to push the Windows 8 tablets to where they belong. Kings of the home gaming domain. 

 

Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations)
Currently playing : The Elder Scrolls Online

  Brabbit1987

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 613

8/11/13 6:54:14 AM#38
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
Originally posted by jesusjuice69

All I was saying was they wouldn't surpass standalone graphic cards in power.

 

As far as the future of mobile devices, then yes APU is king.

 

http://www.guildwarsinsider.com/and-the-verdict-of-guild-wars-2-on-windows-8-is/

For those of you looking to purchase one of the upcoming x86-based Windows 8 tablets such as the Microsoft Surface Pro or the Samsung ATIV Smart PC Pro, we can confirm that Guild Wars 2 will be playable on those devices.

 

They are basically mini-laptops.

Our machine with the Intel HD Graphics integrated GPU averaged frame rates in the mid-20′s on low settings at 1280×720

 

I would not call that playable, i was referring to mobile graphics cards at very low power, but not at integrated graphics.   20 fps at 1280 gives not even 10 fps at a full HD tablet which will be the standard.

No, Next year we will see tablets with much much more GPU power and even better scaled CPU power management, to push the Windows 8 tablets to where they belong. Kings of the home gaming domain. 

 

Umm just so you know, Intel integrated HD Graphics is nothing compared to AMDs APU. Though that may change with Intel's upcoming version which apparently is 3x better then their last according to them.

But ya, don't use your intel HD graphics machine as some type of standard for integrated graphics. If you thought intel's integrated graphics where top of line, you would be thinking wrong. AMD has had them beat by a long shot for a while now.

As for mobile graphics cards, do they even have anything that will fit in a tablet? Could had sworn all tablets had an integrated solution. Though I could be wrong about that. ... Or am I misunderstanding you?

  Lord.Bachus

Elite Member

Joined: 5/14/07
Posts: 8124

I believe in life before death... So dont forget to enjoy it while you still can.

8/11/13 8:29:50 AM#39
Originally posted by Brabbit1987
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
Originally posted by jesusjuice69

All I was saying was they wouldn't surpass standalone graphic cards in power.

 

As far as the future of mobile devices, then yes APU is king.

 

http://www.guildwarsinsider.com/and-the-verdict-of-guild-wars-2-on-windows-8-is/

For those of you looking to purchase one of the upcoming x86-based Windows 8 tablets such as the Microsoft Surface Pro or the Samsung ATIV Smart PC Pro, we can confirm that Guild Wars 2 will be playable on those devices.

 

They are basically mini-laptops.

Our machine with the Intel HD Graphics integrated GPU averaged frame rates in the mid-20′s on low settings at 1280×720

 

I would not call that playable, i was referring to mobile graphics cards at very low power, but not at integrated graphics.   20 fps at 1280 gives not even 10 fps at a full HD tablet which will be the standard.

No, Next year we will see tablets with much much more GPU power and even better scaled CPU power management, to push the Windows 8 tablets to where they belong. Kings of the home gaming domain. 

 

Umm just so you know, Intel integrated HD Graphics is nothing compared to AMDs APU. Though that may change with Intel's upcoming version which apparently is 3x better then their last according to them.

But ya, don't use your intel HD graphics machine as some type of standard for integrated graphics. If you thought intel's integrated graphics where top of line, you would be thinking wrong. AMD has had them beat by a long shot for a while now.

As for mobile graphics cards, do they even have anything that will fit in a tablet? Could had sworn all tablets had an integrated solution. Though I could be wrong about that. ... Or am I misunderstanding you?

They hope to have something in performance comparable to an 7970M in mobile tablet format early next year

Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations)
Currently playing : The Elder Scrolls Online

  Nadia

Elite Member

Joined: 7/26/03
Posts: 10803

8/11/13 8:43:42 AM#40
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