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EverQuest Next

EverQuest Next 

General Discussion  » Reddit asks Terry Michaels Questions: Trinity, Boats, Classes, PvP and more

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144 posts found
  User Deleted
8/08/13 12:21:28 PM#121
I wish they had also asked when people can expect to start seeing Landmark beta invites.. seeing as how its supposed to go *live* in 4 months or less...
  User Deleted
8/08/13 12:32:46 PM#122
Originally posted by thinlizzy
Originally posted by jdnyc
Originally posted by thinlizzy

You are trying to make this personal and I dont want to go there.

FYI

I'm not the one saying that you suspect people don't have much experience with MMOs? :)

The POINT of using a PvP example as to how you can still make tanking healing CC etc part of a viable and needed set up is that it is only in PvP where we have the best AI to fight against.

So are you telling me that you use the exact same strategy when fighting players than you do against the environment?

Or are there cases where abilities function different or don't work at all depending on whether you are playing PVP or PVE?  If that's the case, why? 

Besides in plenty games PVP turns into a zerg fest with healers in the back healing DPS/Tanks anyways.  If people are concerned about removing the trinity and what it will cause, using PVP as an example makes no sense because it is already doing what people fear.  Your point is utterly flawed by comparing to different play styles with the same mechanic.  When in reality, most of the time those mechanics function different based on whether you're in PVE or PVP.

The argument that great AI makes the trinity fail is just not true.

This is SOE's argument not mine.  Mine is that you or I don't know if it's true or not because we haven't seen how responsive AI works in PVE.

NURFING the trinity makes the trinity fail

 

 I used the Warhammer PvP example for a reason.

I will break it down for you.

In Warhammer tanks are CC damage soaking defenders.

No other class can come close to  a tanks durability, and no other class does so little damage.

Now based on the idea that smart AI will just run past a tank like that...how did they make it work in Warhammer...

you try to run past that tank to get to the soft targets behind and it..

a. knocks you back

b. snares you

c. slows you

d. knocks you down

e. stand in the way and blocks you (physical mechanic in the game)

in that time you are burned down by the dps standing behind the tank.

 That's not what I or the devs are talking about when they say trinity.  they are talking about taunts and threat generating mechanics to keep a mob attacking you and ignoring your four buddies wailing on him.  what you described sounds very familiar to the warrior class they talk about in the panel.  just because you have a defender, doesn't mean it's a tank/trinity.

Its way more involved than this but the POINT was to dispute the claim that a smart AI makes it imposible to have the trinity, 

The only thing a smart AI would break is the old way of handling agro...with a taunt and a nerni ner ner.

Yes that's the point.  Exactly.  If you don't have a taunt/aggro threat generating system - you don't have trinity.  you are already breaking it.  no one is arguing that there won't be classes able to soak damage or knockback etc.

As for the comment on how many MMOs people have played... that was NOT directed just at you but at the many people here that...

Then don't quote me when you make that comment.

a. think non tab targeting MMOs are something new that breaks the trinity

that's true.  Neverwinter is a good example of this, but not the only game.

b. cant see how to heal in a game without tab targeting

while tab targeting makes it easier or pass through targeting, this is also true.

c. thing the only way a tank can hold agro is with a taunt mechanic that is nothing more than a threat tool

No, but the only way a tank can hold aggro is from being the top of the threat chart.  This actually is more about threat generating mechanics than the taunt itself.  Taunts are only to get the mob back on you as a tank.  Threat generating abilities is where it's at.

d. think that the trinity = just tank/heals/dps when its a a generalized term best represented in games that often have 5+ specialized classes 

No, trinity = tank/heals/dps.  Set roles.  It's not a generalized term.  Trinity means three and support is often thrown in there as an aside.  If you want to redefine what Holy Trinity is, that's your prerogative. 

 

  SpottyGekko

Elite Member

Joined: 9/26/04
Posts: 2906

8/08/13 12:36:28 PM#123
Originally posted by thinlizzy
Originally posted by SpottyGekko

SOE have clearly said that they're on a mission to remove the old "Omg, we have no Cleric online, so we can't raid tonight, because we have no healer" from their game.

In the classic trinity MMO's, one class was a specialised healer. Most of the more challenging content could not be completed without that class being there. None of the other classes in the game could fill that role, not even by overlapping their limited healing skills (if they even had any worth mentioning). Without that healer class, everybody else died.

 

EqNext will have 40 classes at launch.

FORTY... CLASSES...AT LAUNCH...

 

Could it be that 10 or 15 of those classes could be effective healers ? Be it through weapon abilities or character abilities or a combination of both. Perhaps by using certain gear and weapon mods, any one of those classes could become a dedicated healer.

 

Suddenly "you won't need any ONE class" takes on a whole new meaning...

 

and if that was all they said we would be in a good place.

Many classes, but you will need to structure your group to handle the fight.

Sadly that is NOT all they said.

In the specific example from this interview talking about tanks...

they said... you can make a class tankISH (so not even a sold tank) but that you would NOT BE NEEDED

not the class...TANK would not be needed

making your toon tankish can be done..but will not be needed

 

this is their generalisation about all of the old trinity character types

Really ? They actually said we won't need healing and DPS specialists either ?

 

Naturally, without the "taunt" mechanism, the classic TANK is useless and unemployed. So to emphasize their point about removing all "taunt" skills from the game, they clearly stated that the ONE class that was purpose-built for filling that role was no longer needed.

 

Either you give SOE the benefit of the doubt (until proven otherwise), or you have to believe that "THE TRINITY IS THE ONLY SYSTEM THAT WORKS IN AN MMORPG"...

  User Deleted
8/08/13 12:39:32 PM#124
Originally posted by thinlizzy
 

and if that was all they said we would be in a good place.

Many classes, but you will need to structure your group to handle the fight.

Sadly that is NOT all they said.

In the specific example from this interview talking about tanks...

they said... you can make a class tankISH (so not even a sold tank) but that you would NOT BE NEEDED

not the class...TANK would not be needed

making your toon tankish can be done..but will not be needed

 

this is their generalisation about all of the old trinity character types

Let's put that conversation in context shall we.  I remember the part in the panel you're talking about.

They were referring to Taunt/Threat generation.  They were saying don't expect a tank and spank.  In a trinity system if you run into an encounter that needs a tank/spank you will not be able to do it without a tank.

You will not run into such an encounter in EQN.  That does NOT mean a defender class won't be needed.

Granted again, this is all dependent upon how good the emergent AI actually is.

People are right to be skeptical, but let's hold off on the sky is falling before we see what they've been talking about.

 

  thinlizzy

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/04/13
Posts: 69

8/08/13 12:50:28 PM#125
Originally posted by SpottyGekko
Really ? They actually said we won't need healing and DPS specialists either ?

 

Naturally, without the "taunt" mechanism, the classic TANK is useless and unemployed. So to emphasize their point about removing all "taunt" skills from the game, they clearly stated that the ONE class that was purpose-built for filling that role was no longer needed.

 

Either you give SOE the benefit of the doubt (until proven otherwise), or you have to believe that "THE TRINITY IS THE ONLY SYSTEM THAT WORKS IN AN MMORPG"...

I dispute the idea that the Trinity only exists if you have taunt and tanking only works if you have taunt

Which is why in an earlier post I used warhammer as an example (they have a taunt but its not the type you refer to)

That is a game that has a strong trinity model and does NOT rely on a taunt mechanic.

 

P.S. to date...( yes they may pull it off) NO MMO without strong defined character rolls (trinity) has been very successful.

  Wizardry

Elite Member

Joined: 8/27/04
Posts: 6732

Perhaps tomorrow will be better.

8/08/13 12:54:36 PM#126
There were some good questions asked but still a lot of vague answers.I guess they are worried Blizzard is listening lol.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Napolianboo#p/u/15/rCYLLQCNc1w
Samoan Diamond

  User Deleted
8/08/13 12:57:57 PM#127
Originally posted by thinlizzy

P.S. to date...( yes they may pull it off) NO MMO without strong defined character rolls (trinity) has been very successful.

Define successful.

GW2 sold 3 million copies didn't it?

  thinlizzy

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/04/13
Posts: 69

8/08/13 12:59:32 PM#128
Originally posted by jdnyc
Let's put that conversation in context shall we.  I remember the part in the panel you're talking about.

They were referring to Taunt/Threat generation.  They were saying don't expect a tank and spank.  In a trinity system if you run into an encounter that needs a tank/spank you will not be able to do it without a tank.

You will not run into such an encounter in EQN.  That does NOT mean a defender class won't be needed.

Granted again, this is all dependent upon how good the emergent AI actually is.

People are right to be skeptical, but let's hold off on the sky is falling before we see what they've been talking about.

 

".. the dedicated roles of the holy trinity are not going to be present in Everquest Next. There will be different classes and different build that are angled towards some of the roles, so there might be a class or a build or a class that is more tank-ish but you don't NEED that person to accomplish that goal and content. "

 

This is the part I am talking about.

They have also included healing in some of their examples on this subject.

Leading to the MANY threads on the subject

Tanking is just the example used here and I would guess they used it as its the easiest to understand.

You can be "tank-ish" if you want but you will not be NEEDED to be that way.

 

this just leads on to the obvious conclusions

you can be heal-ish  if you want but you will not be NEEDED to be that way.

you can be support-ish  if you want but you will not be NEEDED to be that way.

you can be CC-ish  if you want but you will not be NEEDED to be that way.

 

given the natural tendency for most people to play DPS (name a game where you are not short on heals tanks and support)

games taking this approach in the past have migrated towards DPS zergfest.

 

P.S. i dont have any emotional investment in EQN so no thoughts of "sky is falling " over here, I will play ESO or ArcheAge or one of the many many other games that are coming out and be happy. I will even play EQN when it comes out, I just wish they had not gone down this path

  thinlizzy

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/04/13
Posts: 69

8/08/13 1:00:49 PM#129
Originally posted by jdnyc
Originally posted by thinlizzy

P.S. to date...( yes they may pull it off) NO MMO without strong defined character rolls (trinity) has been very successful.

Define successful.

GW2 sold 3 million copies didn't it?

AoC is not considered a success by many and they pre sold 2million coppies

  jesusjuice69

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/07/13
Posts: 293

8/08/13 1:03:00 PM#130
Originally posted by jdnyc
Originally posted by thinlizzy

P.S. to date...( yes they may pull it off) NO MMO without strong defined character rolls (trinity) has been very successful.

Define successful.

GW2 sold 3 million copies didn't it?

Long term Success after release.

Just about any half decent MMO can come onto the market and sell a few million boxes.

 

GW2 is a B2P game, and I don't even count it as a REAL MMORPG.

  munx4555

Novice Member

Joined: 6/07/07
Posts: 170

8/08/13 1:16:55 PM#131
Originally posted by SpottyGekko

SOE have clearly said that they're on a mission to remove the old "Omg, we have no Cleric online, so we can't raid tonight, because we have no healer" from their game.

In the classic trinity MMO's, one class was a specialised healer. Most of the more challenging content could not be completed without that class being there. None of the other classes in the game could fill that role, not even by overlapping their limited healing skills (if they even had any worth mentioning). Without that healer class, everybody else died.

 

EqNext will have 40 classes at launch.

FORTY... CLASSES...AT LAUNCH...

 

Could it be that 10 or 15 of those classes could be effective healers ? Be it through weapon abilities or character abilities or a combination of both. Perhaps by using certain gear and weapon mods, any one of those classes could become a dedicated healer.

 

Suddenly "you won't need any ONE class" takes on a whole new meaning...

 

You seem to have ignored the fact that they've already said you wont need specific roles for any of the content, which means those 10-15 effective healer classes are pointless, when the content is balanced so that you can beat it without specific roles you effectivly have a zerg scenario, anything can beat it so why wouldnt you maximize dps?

Gw2 should have made this plenty clear, but some people seem blind to it still, the trinity might be outdated, but roles never will be.

  r0guy

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/28/06
Posts: 119

8/08/13 1:46:41 PM#132
Originally posted by munx4555
Originally posted by SpottyGekko

SOE have clearly said that they're on a mission to remove the old "Omg, we have no Cleric online, so we can't raid tonight, because we have no healer" from their game.

In the classic trinity MMO's, one class was a specialised healer. Most of the more challenging content could not be completed without that class being there. None of the other classes in the game could fill that role, not even by overlapping their limited healing skills (if they even had any worth mentioning). Without that healer class, everybody else died.

 

EqNext will have 40 classes at launch.

FORTY... CLASSES...AT LAUNCH...

 

Could it be that 10 or 15 of those classes could be effective healers ? Be it through weapon abilities or character abilities or a combination of both. Perhaps by using certain gear and weapon mods, any one of those classes could become a dedicated healer.

 

Suddenly "you won't need any ONE class" takes on a whole new meaning...

 

You seem to have ignored the fact that they've already said you wont need specific roles for any of the content, which means those 10-15 effective healer classes are pointless, when the content is balanced so that you can beat it without specific roles you effectivly have a zerg scenario, anything can beat it so why wouldnt you maximize dps?

Gw2 should have made this plenty clear, but some people seem blind to it still, the trinity might be outdated, but roles never will be.

 

People saw you mention Guild Wars 2 and they mentioned LoL/Dota 2.

Keep up with the conversation.

  Nadia

Elite Member

Joined: 7/26/03
Posts: 11486

8/08/13 2:02:42 PM#133

a gamer friend of mine,

whos both excited for EQN and played EQ1 back in 1999

 

offered this commentary to me after reading the reddit

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

still raises the same questions that won't be answered until the game is really playable in a decent state:
 

--Oculus Rift: Cool technology that is finally starting to pan out in the real world (Did you see john Carmack just became their chief technological officer? that's great news as he's always been on the bleeding edge techwise, much more so than as a game dev). While I'm planning on snatching one eventually, it still won't have much mainstream effect on MMOs for a while due to technical and sociological limitations; Obviously can't see keyboard when using it, eyestrain remains a real issue, it has a hefty price tag still for a toy, and it's not usable for many due to family interactions, or any need to keep an eye on anything outside of game.
 
--Not talking about PvP: It's too early for them to talk about it, they need to keep a stack of reveals they can dole out later, that's understandable. If we assume they want to change the field for pvp too (fair assumption I believe, given how giddy a couple of the speakers looked when asked PvP questions), they will avoid an instanced pvp focus. We do know based on lore and a couple of hints that we won't have two opposite factions, that system has very often proved problematic for balance so that's good. It's likely some sort of open world pvp servers is part of the plan, it would be in line with the mostly sandboxy world and most of the examples they used throughout this last week.

--No trinity: The concern for me isn't so much a change of template but more the possible lack of a any specialization. GW2 is the prime example there, unless you are trying for speedruns and maximizing synergy, the huge majority of groups are 5 people soloing in close proximity, that's a disaster for me. The modern trinity unlike the original warrior-cleric-enchanter stranglehold can work well, when healers and tanks are fun and efficient outside of dungeons. Even the good AI excuse is somewhat flawed because PvP tanks and healers exist (warhammer online was great for tanks, healers much more commonly).
 That said, I understand that not quite 1/5th or 1/6th of the players really want to play a tank or a healer, so making them an option is something I can appreciate.. Yet how are they going to address the soloing-within-a-group problem? There are only so many options here, the ennemy's hit points must reach zero before your team's, so you have two non-mutually exclusive paths, protect/regenerate your HPs, or take theirs down.

 Damage is obvious, whether it's done through melee, nukes, DoTs, or more esoteric means like traps, pets, environmental damage.. That's the core of the GW2 problem, the DPS side offers many options, but few strategic choices. Now defense is where things get more convoluted. We have the tank/healer paradigm of course to make enemy damage irrelevant, or we can stop enemy from doing any actions (crowd control), reducing those actions' effectiveness (debuffs), protecting from them (shields/runes), or avoiding them altogether(kiting, dodging, LoS..).
 So options do exist, and we've used them in the past extensively along with or instead of tanking, but I fail to see what problems we fixed that aren't just moved around. If you give the defensive side too small of a focus, you end up with the GW2 DPS strategic emptiness. If you spread your focus on all the possible defensive actions.. you end up with none of them having any actual strategic weight, and by comparison damage once against wins the fight. If you focus on any of them too heavily, you are back in the same position except your players are forced into incorporating one of a small group of skills into all builds.
 
 So really getting rid of the trinity.. Okay, sure. While I tend to tank a lot I also play other archetypes and I don't mind change, I'm just not convinced the solution will be any better. GW2 free for all, or a reliance on another paradigm just don't look like improvements to me, at best a status quo. Of course that's all for group play.. for solo play, sure I can see the appeal, but too much solo play makes for some dull MMOs
 
  ignore_me

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/04/11
Posts: 2034

8/08/13 2:07:47 PM#134
Originally posted by Nadia

a gamer friend of mine,

whos both excited for EQN and played EQ1 back in 1999

 

offered this commentary to me after reading the reddit

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

still raises the same questions that won't be answered until the game is really playable in a decent state:
 

--Oculus Rift: Cool technology that is finally starting to pan out in the real world (Did you see john Carmack just became their chief technological officer? that's great news as he's always been on the bleeding edge techwise, much more so than as a game dev). While I'm planning on snatching one eventually, it still won't have much mainstream effect on MMOs for a while due to technical and sociological limitations; Obviously can't see keyboard when using it, eyestrain remains a real issue, it has a hefty price tag still for a toy, and it's not usable for many due to family interactions, or any need to keep an eye on anything outside of game.
 
--Not talking about PvP: It's too early for them to talk about it, they need to keep a stack of reveals they can dole out later, that's understandable. If we assume they want to change the field for pvp too (fair assumption I believe, given how giddy a couple of the speakers looked when asked PvP questions), they will avoid an instanced pvp focus. We do know based on lore and a couple of hints that we won't have two opposite factions, that system has very often proved problematic for balance so that's good. It's likely some sort of open world pvp servers is part of the plan, it would be in line with the mostly sandboxy world and most of the examples they used throughout this last week.

--No trinity: The concern for me isn't so much a change of template but more the possible lack of a any specialization. GW2 is the prime example there, unless you are trying for speedruns and maximizing synergy, the huge majority of groups are 5 people soloing in close proximity, that's a disaster for me. The modern trinity unlike the original warrior-cleric-enchanter stranglehold can work well, when healers and tanks are fun and efficient outside of dungeons. Even the good AI excuse is somewhat flawed because PvP tanks and healers exist (warhammer online was great for tanks, healers much more commonly).
 That said, I understand that not quite 1/5th or 1/6th of the players really want to play a tank or a healer, so making them an option is something I can appreciate.. Yet how are they going to address the soloing-within-a-group problem? There are only so many options here, the ennemy's hit points must reach zero before your team's, so you have two non-mutually exclusive paths, protect/regenerate your HPs, or take theirs down.

 Damage is obvious, whether it's done through melee, nukes, DoTs, or more esoteric means like traps, pets, environmental damage.. That's the core of the GW2 problem, the DPS side offers many options, but few strategic choices. Now defense is where things get more convoluted. We have the tank/healer paradigm of course to make enemy damage irrelevant, or we can stop enemy from doing any actions (crowd control), reducing those actions' effectiveness (debuffs), protecting from them (shields/runes), or avoiding them altogether(kiting, dodging, LoS..).
 So options do exist, and we've used them in the past extensively along with or instead of tanking, but I fail to see what problems we fixed that aren't just moved around. If you give the defensive side too small of a focus, you end up with the GW2 DPS strategic emptiness. If you spread your focus on all the possible defensive actions.. you end up with none of them having any actual strategic weight, and by comparison damage once against wins the fight. If you focus on any of them too heavily, you are back in the same position except your players are forced into incorporating one of a small group of skills into all builds.
 
 So really getting rid of the trinity.. Okay, sure. While I tend to tank a lot I also play other archetypes and I don't mind change, I'm just not convinced the solution will be any better. GW2 free for all, or a reliance on another paradigm just don't look like improvements to me, at best a status quo. Of course that's all for group play.. for solo play, sure I can see the appeal, but too much solo play makes for some dull MMOs
 

Great post. Your friend has analyzed this problem with insight and a fair mind imo.

Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  ignore_me

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/04/11
Posts: 2034

8/08/13 2:10:42 PM#135
We don't have to wait for our Tank or Healer to log on, because now we are all DPS. Resistance is futile.

Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  GrayKodiak

Novice Member

Joined: 11/15/12
Posts: 576

8/08/13 3:09:59 PM#136

EvE manages to have roles without the trinity. Eve also lets you change roles by changing ships...but Eve certainly has progression in its own way.

There are ways to bring roles into a game without a trinity that have been done before it just requires a different mind set.

Crowd Control is one, WoW presented a type of crowd control that worked universally with roots and stuns, and certain glimpses of situational class crowd control with some classes that could CC undead. If you expand the types of enemies present Instead of just undead/demon/animal/humanoid you can expand the types of roles needed to combat those particular classes, especially if you create tiers under those types.

Imagine an earth elemental npc enemy that leaps around (we have already seen movement is fast from the warrior demo and his hopping around), and a few of the player classes with the ability to CC elementals to keep them from moving so fast and possibly to dispel any type of shielding they have that deflects 80% of incoming damage, this class while primarily DPS/Control would be essential in letting other DPS classes get close enough to kill the earth elemental and would cause that killing to occur 80% faster. This would be an important role in an area that you would expect such things (like say an underground cavern you just happened to now be able to dig down into).

Now in most games such a situational CC class would be a bit limited but with the ability to swap roles, and such a huge number of roles being put out, it is entirely possible that while not part of some grand trinity you would want someone in the group with that role before you went down into said cavern. Expand that out to include other elements, undead, demons and the more mixed the area you are going into the more important having appropriate roles to control certain enemies inside become.

Now imagine you go into the same situation without this role, maybe you bring just DPS and you are having to chase around this mob type smart enough to jump away from melee, and with 80% more health because you are unable to dispel that particular buff...the fight becomes LONGER with a pure dps zerg not shorter. Even your ranged dps are going to have a problem because obviously it is going to jump straight to them and start hitting them and you forgot to bring something that will slow it down.

This would depend on a few things of course and I have no idea if it is anything like EQnext, you would have to get rid of the idea that anyone can debuff anything as long as they have a universal debuff skill, and you would have to have an A.I. smart enough to not just "Attack the mage" but also avoid the melee when possible and attack the ranged...and the ability to have several of these hypothetical elementals doing this all at once....put all this together and you get a situation where you will have wish you brought the right rock-paper-scissor combination as your having to run all over the place with your dps crew taking 80% more time to do something a better put together group would have done and moved on from by now.

Maybe your DPS only crew starts to bunch up to stop the things from going straight for the ranged, well this is fine you just used a tactic to overcome a problem caused by your lack of planning...still might not save your poorly armored arrow shooting elf buddy though...hope you brought a healer.

  casskhaw

Novice Member

Joined: 11/27/11
Posts: 19

8/08/13 3:33:26 PM#137

Wow. o_o I did not expect this much speculation and flailing to originate from that one interview. 

*waves at people* 

  thinlizzy

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/04/13
Posts: 69

8/08/13 8:26:33 PM#138
Originally posted by GrayKodiak

Maybe your DPS only crew starts to bunch up to stop the things from going straight for the ranged, well this is fine you just used a tactic to overcome a problem caused by your lack of planning...still might not save your poorly armored arrow shooting elf buddy though...hope you brought a healer.

This is where much of the defence of this system in this thread falls down.

By the devs own assertions... you will not NEED any particular class

SO they have to design content that can be done by.,.. a whole group of ranged.

 

As for the comments by another poster that people countered the GW2 accusation with LoL/Dota

Those games have very strong class distinctions and unless you are playing against nubs, you will NEED each of those key roles

  GrayKodiak

Novice Member

Joined: 11/15/12
Posts: 576

8/09/13 6:53:04 AM#139
Originally posted by thinlizzy
Originally posted by GrayKodiak

Maybe your DPS only crew starts to bunch up to stop the things from going straight for the ranged, well this is fine you just used a tactic to overcome a problem caused by your lack of planning...still might not save your poorly armored arrow shooting elf buddy though...hope you brought a healer.

This is where much of the defence of this system in this thread falls down.

By the devs own assertions... you will not NEED any particular class

SO they have to design content that can be done by.,.. a whole group of ranged.

 

As for the comments by another poster that people countered the GW2 accusation with LoL/Dota

Those games have very strong class distinctions and unless you are playing against nubs, you will NEED each of those key roles

 

Not needing a class is not the same as it being equally easy with all group compositions, they clearly said that you would run into combat scenarios that would "kick your ass" and you would have to step out and rethink your skills, well if any scenario can defeat class x then clearly class x can not as you say do all content by itself or in a group containing only class x.

It is a mistake to say just because you do not need a paladin it necessarily follows that you can do everything with a group of mages.

  Caldrin

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/02/04
Posts: 4138

8/09/13 7:00:38 AM#140
Originally posted by thinlizzy
Originally posted by GrayKodiak

Maybe your DPS only crew starts to bunch up to stop the things from going straight for the ranged, well this is fine you just used a tactic to overcome a problem caused by your lack of planning...still might not save your poorly armored arrow shooting elf buddy though...hope you brought a healer.

This is where much of the defence of this system in this thread falls down.

By the devs own assertions... you will not NEED any particular class

SO they have to design content that can be done by.,.. a whole group of ranged.

Why do they have to do that for? just because everyone can be ranged or whatever does not mean they need to create content for that..

 

it will be up to the groups to take a good selection of different classes along and not all the same thnig.. there might not be 100% dedicated helers or whatever but there will be classes that are good at healing in groups and of course you will want to take those along when needed... it will jsut be more dynamic and yo wont be locked into needing a tank, healer, crowd control like you where before.. you will still have those people or people doing that for the group but numerous people could take on those roles..

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http://dragon3d.webs.com/

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