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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » I just paid $12,500 for a F2P game

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125 posts found
  jesad

Novice Member

Joined: 9/30/06
Posts: 730

Think of something witty and pretend that I typed it in this spot :)

8/08/13 2:54:29 AM#61

F2P games compared to the old demos that they used to put out are like the one time when I told my grandma that a loaf of bread cost $1.57 and she started talking some non-sense about a nickle.

No one ever said it was "Free to play and possibly win".  I thought most of us understood that.

  TwoThreeFour

Novice Member

Joined: 3/26/12
Posts: 2148

8/08/13 3:01:04 AM#62
Originally posted by Emboror
12500 $  ??? That sounds more like a helluva scam than... anything else. Graz if they manage to milk some fools so much money.

Lol?

 

People are forgetting that there are wealthy people that would like to support Path of Exile because they love the game. It is far more of a large donation than an item mall buy and the customer knows it. 

  Dihoru

Elite Member

Joined: 1/11/06
Posts: 2661

8/08/13 3:06:28 AM#63
Originally posted by Axehilt
Originally posted by Dihoru

Incorrect, for a developer you certainly can't differentiated between playing the core game in its uninhibited form and playing it in a crippled form. Arguably in the latter you're not actually playing the game even with experience playing to core gameplay experience (ex: I've played DDO until I started hitting paywalls and gated content at which point I quite because those in my opinion do not make a F2P game, those make a Freemium at best, Pay to Win at worse, game).

Clarification: Inhibiting the core gameplay experience is gating or restricting access to features behind paywalls. This is not free to play, this is as mentioned above either freemium or pay to win (eternal crusade will use a freemium system for example but that game is not free to play). 

Your words: "I've played DDO" (for free)
 
Do we really need to say anything more?
  • It's objective truth that free to play games are free to play.
  • It's subjective opinion that you dislike it.
Opinion doesn't change the truth.  That's not how it works.

You are aware you're also stating an opinion right? I also did not play DDO in the real sense of the word because I did not get to enjoy the whole game uninhibited.

I can dismantle your arguments very simply btw with this:

Game

Noun- form of play or sport, esp. a competitive one played according to rules and decided by skill, strength, or luck.

A Free to Play game follows that definition in as much as allowing skill, strength or luck to decide the outcome of any interaction within it because the game is free to play. A Freemium or Pay to Win game does not because luck and skill are partially or completely supplanted by paying player exclusive enhancements (strength possibly as well depending if the respective game uses a vertical progression system or not).

  Mightyking

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/08/06
Posts: 152

8/08/13 3:07:57 AM#64

People still seem to want make a distinction between F2P and P2W, but I don't think there is one.

Faster mounts, XP potions, scrolls that give you more currency, Cooldown reducements, Fast-travel options, all these things do give you benefits over someone who doesn't pay, or can not pay. It's like stepping into a casino, and because you have more money, you get to pick an extra card. The game is not equal for everyone and by definition the competitve aspects of the game become imbalanced.

Even current games who are praised for their cash shop currently, risk going this path. When at the end of the year the economy department tell the technical department that the financial situation needs drastic measures, then there's two things to do: 1. pull the plug, 2. make those items that really sell.

Don't get me wrong, I've played some F2P games. I am really impressed by Rift's model, where you don't even notice the game is free to play, except for a tiny little button. I supported the game by spending 50 euro's to buy some bag slots and the souls (character), which is basically paying for the expansion. Yet, this decision does give me an advantage over someone else.

The better F2P games will spend a lot of effort in finding out how to get money from their clients in the same way we are used to in real life. Is that really what we want? Smell enhancers at the bakery, music to stimulate sales, colour palettes to make things look better, or making someone stand in a town wearing all the bling one could buy and "he looks so cool".

I don't know, I still prefer to pay for the real value online games offer, and that is one fee to pay the game, and a monthly fee that is used for development and maintenance of the systems.

  crasset15

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/12/12
Posts: 153

8/08/13 3:11:55 AM#65
Games can be completely F2P without any monetisation, but it isn't common. America's Army 2 for example, a FPS with quite a large following back in the day, was completely free for the players, because it was funded by the US taxpayers/government.
  jesad

Novice Member

Joined: 9/30/06
Posts: 730

Think of something witty and pretend that I typed it in this spot :)

8/08/13 3:16:20 AM#66
Star Wars makes you pay for an extra hotbar LOL.  Just throwing that out there.  But still, I have never seen Final Fantasy in any form because Square Enix doesn't support free to play, demo, free trial, or anything.  Heck, I couldn't even find the website for the MMO itself for the longest time, and thus that game went ignored.

  stayBlind

Novice Member

Joined: 4/19/06
Posts: 509

8/08/13 3:22:40 AM#67
Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
Originally posted by Emboror
12500 $  ??? That sounds more like a helluva scam than... anything else. Graz if they manage to milk some fools so much money.

Lol?

 

People are forgetting that there are wealthy people that would like to support Path of Exile because they love the game. It is far more of a large donation than an item mall buy and the customer knows it. 

QFT

I find it all the posts about "OMG there are starving people in the world that could use that money. Whoever spends that much on a game is an idiot" posts ridiculous.

How much a week do the people who say such things spend on things that they do not NEED.

Little forum boys with their polished cyber toys: whine whine, boo-hoo, talk talk.

  Sagasaint

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/25/11
Posts: 474

I don't always play MMOs, but when I do, I play sandboxes

8/08/13 3:26:10 AM#68

I remember a thread in TERA forums about an arabian guy, I think either he or his family was into the petrol thingy or something like that

amazingly rich by anyone's standards, he was asking the devs for some crappy ingame bling for thousands of dollars, just to be appart form the rest of peasants...mind you, it was something completly non gamebreaking, like having his char's names on orange and similar!

 

he even posted RL pictures of him with the obliged "<3 tera forums" +date in a piece of paper he was holding, pics of his hou...scratch that, MANSION, his rig where he was playing TERA (and possibly launching NASA shuttles into space) and his bank account's balance to prove beyond reasonable doubt he was serious

 

so yep, OP, you have to accept that people like that really exists. peeps that have SO MUCH money that they dont mind throwing it left and right on something they enjoy.

that being a fleet of luxury cars or a MMO, doesnt matter. they do it because they can

 

  Axehilt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/09
Posts: 7213

8/08/13 3:39:18 AM#69
Originally posted by maplestone

And yet, I still disagree with you.  I'd like to believe we've had enough pleasant conversations that this should raise some alarm bells that perhaps there's another angle to this discussion.

You appear to be focused on the individual and the idea of what an individual can theoretically budget. That's a fair way to look at the world, consistent with a philosophy of strict individual responsibility and what you say is competely reasonable within that context.  The problem is that I don't look at the world and my place in it that way.

I'm focused on the whole community and counting myself as just one random piece of it until my decisions and resolve are actually tested.   The average revenue per player is not $0.  Therefore, in my mind, it's not free.  It might end up being free.  It might end up that the highly paid analysts will actually find the guantlet of carrots and sticks that changes my mind and breaks my resolve.  I have the humility to accept that I do not have perfect willpower.  And my estimate of the cost of the game is weighted by not just what I *intend* to pay, but also all the possible moments of weakness that might occur along the way.  And that's where I begin to look at the term "F2P" with emotions varying from suspicion to outright disgust.

I'm not saying that you have to look at the world my way.  I'm not saying you have to agree that my way is even a good way to look at it.  But if you don't respect the fact that I look at it this way instead of your way, then I'm going to take some offense.

I'm focused on the individual because "free to play" can always be true of the individual.  Anything else is irrelevant.

If a car's list price is $40,000 and 95% of people buy it at that price but some people get additional packages which drive the price up to $50,000, does the average cost per vehicle even matter?  Of course not.  The list price accurately reflects the basic price of the car.  The price tag isn't wrong just because some people choose to pay more.
 
The same is true when the price starts out free.
 
You're free to have the opinion of disliking free to play games for the reasons you've stated.  But these games can be played for free, and you can't really dispute that truth, or the accuracy of calling them "free to play" if in a typical game 95% of people play for free (in many cases more than 95%.)
  Robokapp

Elite Member

Joined: 11/15/09
Posts: 4516

The only luck I had today was to have you as my opponent.

8/08/13 3:55:19 AM#70
Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by Robokapp
Originally posted by Axehilt
Originally posted by Attend4455

Mind blown, how can you call these game free-to-play when they allow this?

Can you play the game?  For free?

Well then...

but can you play the game for free? or just fragments of it ?

you let this one out and this is where the dissagreements are.

we're all agreeing on the two words you highlighted. not on the one I did.

Uh oh, someone isn't getting enough for free.  I smell entitlement working its way in here.

I translated the green part we're disagreeing about.

are you using the cash shop nose or the freebie one ? that might explain the problem.

 

see my sig for future details.

  maplestone

Novice Member

Joined: 12/10/08
Posts: 3109

8/08/13 4:42:58 AM#71
Originally posted by Axehilt
You're free to have the opinion of disliking free to play games for the reasons you've stated.

I've said my peace as well as I think I can, so if you don't mind II think I'll resist nitpicking your portayal of car salesmen as paragons of honesty and just focus on this line, thank you, and bow out of the conversation.

  Axehilt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/09
Posts: 7213

8/08/13 4:44:38 AM#72
Originally posted by Dihoru

You are aware you're also stating an opinion right? I also did not play DDO in the real sense of the word because I did not get to enjoy the whole game uninhibited.

I can dismantle your arguments very simply btw with this:

Game

Noun- form of play or sport, esp. a competitive one played according to rules and decided by skill, strength, or luck.

A Free to Play game follows that definition in as much as allowing skill, strength or luck to decide the outcome of any interaction within it because the game is free to play. A Freemium or Pay to Win game does not because luck and skill are partially or completely supplanted by paying player exclusive enhancements (strength possibly as well depending if the respective game uses a vertical progression system or not).

If you didn't play DDO, what did you do to the game?

The "free to play games aren't even games" part of your post is wrong to such a degree where I'm not sure if you're actually being serious.  Skill is still involved, whether you purchase nothing, with lateral purchases, or with vertical purchases.  In all cases of actual F2P games which exist, these games are still games, even if the genuinely bad designs (vertical purchases) completely ruin the quality of their gameplay by selling those veritcal power increases.

In nearly all cases (95%+ players never pay, and the most popular F2P games use lateral purchases) the skill element is completely intact.

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 18787

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

8/08/13 4:48:10 AM#73
Wish I had more rich friends who could afford to pay these amounts, maybe they'd pay the same for me as well.

"In these forums 'honest' seems to be a symonym for 'hates the game just like I do'" - ohioastro
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  Caldrin

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/02/04
Posts: 4065

8/08/13 4:54:27 AM#74

I have been playing POE on and off since launch and have not paid a penny...  I ahve also played the other games you listed and not paid a penny..

 

There are currenty 2 f2p games i spend money on World of tanks and War Thunder and I just pay for premium every month so i can skill up a bit faster, but I am currently not playing anything else so I dont mind spending a bit of my entertainment.

My 3D models
http://dragon3d.webs.com/

  Axehilt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/09
Posts: 7213

8/08/13 4:56:39 AM#75
Originally posted by maplestone

I've said my peace as well as I think I can, so if you don't mind II think I'll resist nitpicking your portayal of car salesmen as paragons of honesty and just focus on this line, thank you, and bow out of the conversation.

Since you got completely sidetracked by the car salesman example:

  • A charm bracelet's pricetag says $1.  Just because you can buy additional $1 charms to put on it doesn't make the bracelet's pricetag wrong.
  • A Playstation 3 with God of War is $299.99.  Just because you can purchase additional games doesn't make the PS3's pricetag wrong.
  • Coffee at a rest stop is free.  You may choose to donate to those nice people providing it, but that doesn't mean the coffee isn't free.
Stuff costs what it costs.  Free to play games cost nothing.
  cura

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/24/04
Posts: 860

8/08/13 5:06:45 AM#76
Originally posted by Attend4455

quote :

 

these are games that let you pay $200.

https://warframe.com/founders

http://nw.perfectworld.com/neverwinterpack

(Firefall is only $100) https://accounts.firefallthegame.com/purchases/specialty_packs

(Path of Exile offers a $12,500 pack though!) https://www.pathofexile.com/purchase

(Also, some MMOs, such as LOTRO and STO, offered Lifetime subscriptions for $200)

Of course, these are all F2P: a small portion of the players will pay the $200, and other players pay other amounts. So I guess your point remains valid: would anyone pay $200 for a non-F2P?

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/195145/the_shame_game_an_interview_with_.php

 

Mind blown, how can you call these game free-to-play when they allow this?

Yes i can. First, they are free to play not free to have all in game for free. Second, i dont care for idiots who loose their money bebouse they are mentally too weak to resist.

  Po_gg

Elite Member

Joined: 5/12/10
Posts: 1960

8/08/13 5:14:11 AM#77
Originally posted by crasset15
Games can be completely F2P without any monetisation, but it isn't common. America's Army 2 for example, a FPS with quite a large following back in the day, was completely free for the players, because it was funded by the US taxpayers/government.

Not the most accurate example since the AA series are more like an ad campaign for the military and not a real game... but if we stick to the analogy then what's wrong with f2p games free for the players, funded by the whales? :) (just kidding)

  uplink4242

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/15/08
Posts: 219

8/08/13 6:45:13 AM#78
Did you have to pay any money to start playing, or to continue playing? No. That's exactly what F2P means.
  Loke666

Elite Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 16452

8/08/13 6:53:53 AM#79
Originally posted by InsaneDalek

Uhh, maybe because paying anything at all for them is completely voluntary, and not at all required to enjoy the game?

But yes, how DARE they give people the OPTION to pay for something they enjoy! The NERVE of these people, honestly!

If people would start focusing on what they're spending their own money on, and less on how / what other people are purchasing with theirs, maybe we'd have less folks in dire financial straits these days. Oh, but that's just crazy talk. Everybody knows that people aren't responsible for their own fuck-ups anymore...

You are right in most cases but in some games you do need to spend far more than the old 15 bucks a month subscription would cost if you want to be competetive at endgame level.

If people want to pay 12500 bucks for fluff, extra bankspace, some cool extra races and stuff like that they are for all means free to do so.

If on the other hand you need to pay to be able to use the cool item you just looted, you can buy endgame gear for money and you have to pay to unlock the raids and dungeons the game really is on a slippery slope and I will avoid it. Then again if others wants to play a game like that they are free to do so.

  uplink4242

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/15/08
Posts: 219

8/08/13 7:03:39 AM#80
Originally posted by Loke666
Originally posted by InsaneDalek

Uhh, maybe because paying anything at all for them is completely voluntary, and not at all required to enjoy the game?

But yes, how DARE they give people the OPTION to pay for something they enjoy! The NERVE of these people, honestly!

If people would start focusing on what they're spending their own money on, and less on how / what other people are purchasing with theirs, maybe we'd have less folks in dire financial straits these days. Oh, but that's just crazy talk. Everybody knows that people aren't responsible for their own fuck-ups anymore...

You are right in most cases but in some games you do need to spend far more than the old 15 bucks a month subscription would cost if you want to be competetive at endgame level.

If people want to pay 12500 bucks for fluff, extra bankspace, some cool extra races and stuff like that they are for all means free to do so.

If on the other hand you need to pay to be able to use the cool item you just looted, you can buy endgame gear for money and you have to pay to unlock the raids and dungeons the game really is on a slippery slope and I will avoid it. Then again if others wants to play a game like that they are free to do so.

And what you're descbiring here is something commonly refered as "P2W". The game was still free to play, wether you feel it's relevant to play for free or not. 

The original question makes no sense. F2P does not imply you can be happy forever playing for free, it simply means you don't have to payto be able to access the game. I think it's very easy to understand. If you can't avoid spending $12.5 k on every game you play, the OP should try to find help instead of debating about this. 

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