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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » A linear game

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42 posts found
  Lord.Bachus

Elite Member

Joined: 5/14/07
Posts: 8591

I believe in life before death... So dont forget to enjoy it while you still can.

 
OP  8/07/13 4:17:31 AM#1

I have heard several remarks about how linear this game is compared with Skyrim, because in Skyrim you can go everwhere on the map the minute you start the game.

 

This is not so in TESO, but that does not make this a linear game, far from.  

 

So far after finishing the starter area which is about 1/4 the size of Skyrim you can travel everywhere you want in the outdoor world of your alliance, but keep in mind that most areas might be very dangerous as you are not powerfull enough yet to face the ennemies inthere, doing this and returning later to face those vile ennemies and then being able to defeat them is what gives that sweet taste of progression, thats something most RPG players really love.  But there will be no boundries keeping you from finding your very own death. So as soon as you left the starter areas there is full freedom in exploration, its just very dangerous.

 

your life from 1 to 50 consists mainly of finding adventures trough killing things and or helping people that you meet on your explorations. There is no straight path and noboddy holding your hand. The quests are there to tell you stories, but if you dont like stories you can travel around and jump intoo every pihole or dungeon you find around, alone or with your friends. There are many many open world dungeons aiming at small group play. Keep in mind that altough your alliances world is divided into zones it still is several times the size of Skyrim.. Personally i am hoping that there will be several areas to  play in for every levelrange, because this will be very important for the MMO non linearity, i have no answer to that question... Will there be several zones for each level range in a set alliance.

keep in mind that many quests involve choices, and some of he mainquests are phased and instanced to add to the story telling capabillities of the quests. This however does not add to linearity in my book.  Its just a single step you take, and it even adds to the non linearity of you character, as they can add much more choice that way.. But then whole Skyrim was a personal instance so having onlybpart of the game instanced is for MMO players a huge advancement, and people that love stories and lore will adore this.

 

at 50 however the whole game changes. You get a full world of equall level stuff where you can travel freely trough the ennemies alliance zones as you where used in Skyrim. This is where the Skyrim players will find all their freedom back, and go everywhere they want. Something telse me these zones will feel much more sandboxy like the good old daggerfall game.

 

Also starting at level 11 there are 8 full PvP zones where you can go wherever you want, doing either PvP or PvE..  Free travel and exploration for all

 

Compared to the other major storybased mmos this game will feel much less linear ( swtor and tsw) and what would an elder scrolls game be withouth storiesvand quests.

Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  psychosiszz

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/18/05
Posts: 43

8/07/13 6:04:20 AM#2

Sorry but this game is extremely linear. There is a illusion of freedom, but thats all it is. Its still a themepark game with no sandbox features. It also uses a channel system for zones... which i despise instancing is just plain awful.

I hate how linear MMO's make zones into simple stepping stones for getting to max level and the player never ventures there again. Makes the world feel fake. Elder scrolls was all about a living breathing world I see none of that here.

  CthulhuPuffs

Novice Member

Joined: 3/03/13
Posts: 379

Will consume your soul, yet stay crunchy in milk

8/07/13 6:21:39 AM#3
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

I have heard several remarks about how linear this game is compared with Skyrim, because in Skyrim you can go everwhere on the map the minute you start the game.

 

This is not so in TESO, but that does not make this a linear game, far from.  

 

So far after finishing the starter area which is about 1/4 the size of Skyrim you can travel everywhere you want in the outdoor world of your alliance, but keep in mind that most areas might be very dangerous as you are not powerfull enough yet to face the ennemies inthere, doing this and returning later to face those vile ennemies and then being able to defeat them is what gives that sweet taste of progression, thats something most RPG players really love.  But there will be no boundries keeping you from finding your very own death. So as soon as you left the starter areas there is full freedom in exploration, its just very dangerous.

 

your life from 1 to 50 consists mainly of finding adventures trough killing things and or helping people that you meet on your explorations. There is no straight path and noboddy holding your hand. The quests are there to tell you stories, but if you dont like stories you can travel around and jump intoo every pihole or dungeon you find around, alone or with your friends. There are many many open world dungeons aiming at small group play. Keep in mind that altough your alliances world is divided into zones it still is several times the size of Skyrim.. Personally i am hoping that there will be several areas to  play in for every levelrange, because this will be very important for the MMO non linearity, i have no answer to that question... Will there be several zones for each level range in a set alliance.

keep in mind that many quests involve choices, and some of he mainquests are phased and instanced to add to the story telling capabillities of the quests. This however does not add to linearity in my book.  Its just a single step you take, and it even adds to the non linearity of you character, as they can add much more choice that way.. But then whole Skyrim was a personal instance so having onlybpart of the game instanced is for MMO players a huge advancement, and people that love stories and lore will adore this.

 

at 50 however the whole game changes. You get a full world of equall level stuff where you can travel freely trough the ennemies alliance zones as you where used in Skyrim. This is where the Skyrim players will find all their freedom back, and go everywhere they want. Something telse me these zones will feel much more sandboxy like the good old daggerfall game.

 

Also starting at level 11 there are 8 full PvP zones where you can go wherever you want, doing either PvP or PvE..  Free travel and exploration for all

 

Compared to the other major storybased mmos this game will feel much less linear ( swtor and tsw) and what would an elder scrolls game be withouth storiesvand quests.

I am sick and tired of these level based games where " The REAL game begins at 50". To me that makes the 1-49 experience nothing but one long linear tutorial.

And once you hit 50, everything from 49 back is now pointless to go back to because it offers no challenge what so ever to a level 50. There-by becoming wasted content. Or as I call it, A World of Gray

Level based Themepark games are linear by definition

You are forever trapped in this bubble where you are only allowed to play [this much content]. It feels like an Amusement Park. You are either "too young to ride this, Kid" or "too old to ride this, Sir"

I want a game where the "Real Game" begins right after Character Creation. Not 50 levels and untold hours later

Bringer of Eternal Darkness and Despair, but also a Nutritious way to start your Morning.

Games Played: Too Many

  Lord.Bachus

Elite Member

Joined: 5/14/07
Posts: 8591

I believe in life before death... So dont forget to enjoy it while you still can.

 
OP  8/07/13 12:56:17 PM#4
Originally posted by psychosiszz

Sorry but this game is extremely linear. There is a illusion of freedom, but thats all it is. Its still a themepark game with no sandbox features. It also uses a channel system for zones... which i despise instancing is just plain awful.

I hate how linear MMO's make zones into simple stepping stones for getting to max level and the player never ventures there again. Makes the world feel fake. Elder scrolls was all about a living breathing world I see none of that here.

you sound like you actually playd the game, yet it seems all people with handson experience in general disagree with you. The game allows for random exploration and every which way you go you will find different content, both quests and dungeons.

 

even tough TESO has those zones, the world is designed in such a way that you will not feel any linearity. atleast thats the information we got from recent playtesters. 

 

this game has more freedom then any other story based mmo, if you want a sandbox, its not here.. if you like a game with lots andlots of content, then its here. 

Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  Darth-Batman

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/26/05
Posts: 715

Bruce, I am your father.

8/07/13 1:05:25 PM#5
Originally posted by psychosiszz

Sorry but this game is extremely linear. There is a illusion of freedom, but thats all it is. Its still a themepark game with no sandbox features. It also uses a channel system for zones... which i despise instancing is just plain awful.

I hate how linear MMO's make zones into simple stepping stones for getting to max level and the player never ventures there again. Makes the world feel fake. Elder scrolls was all about a living breathing world I see none of that here.

Agreed.

  Holophonist

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/15/09
Posts: 2016

8/07/13 1:38:08 PM#6
Having a LOT of linear stuff to do is still linear. I want a world that you travel around consistently. I don't want to use up zones or areas and never go back to them.
  Bladestrom

Elite Member

Joined: 4/04/11
Posts: 3296

8/07/13 1:52:50 PM#7
I love questing that is non linear - it encourages travelling in new/possibly too high level for you areas and applies lore to the world. my worry is that history will repeat itself and those arguing for slick levelling experiences where they don't have to do 'boring travelling' do not realise that this equates to optimised quest routes aka hubs.

rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW (1000 hrs on main mage)> oblivion > LOTR (480 Hunter) > Rift (230 hours mage) > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(900 elementalist), Wildstar

Now playing GW2, AOW 3

  CthulhuPuffs

Novice Member

Joined: 3/03/13
Posts: 379

Will consume your soul, yet stay crunchy in milk

8/07/13 1:53:16 PM#8
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
Originally posted by psychosiszz

Sorry but this game is extremely linear. There is a illusion of freedom, but thats all it is. Its still a themepark game with no sandbox features. It also uses a channel system for zones... which i despise instancing is just plain awful.

I hate how linear MMO's make zones into simple stepping stones for getting to max level and the player never ventures there again. Makes the world feel fake. Elder scrolls was all about a living breathing world I see none of that here.

you sound like you actually playd the game, yet it seems all people with handson experience in general disagree with you. The game allows for random exploration and every which way you go you will find different content, both quests and dungeons.

 

even tough TESO has those zones, the world is designed in such a way that you will not feel any linearity. atleast thats the information we got from recent playtesters. 

 

this game has more freedom then any other story based mmo, if you want a sandbox, its not here.. if you like a game with lots andlots of content, then its here. 

Doesnt matter if we have played ESO or not. Most of us have played the same type of Level Based game. The ONLY difference is that this time its skinned in the Elder Scrolls IP

Content goes from 1-10, 10-20, 20-30, 30-40, 40-50.  The content still progresses exactly the same way no matter which way you go. Left or Right its still the same.

Cant go too far ahead or you get PWND. No reason to go back as its all Grey.

There is only the "perception" of Freedom in a Level Based game. Its an illusion.

Linear is as Linear does.

Bringer of Eternal Darkness and Despair, but also a Nutritious way to start your Morning.

Games Played: Too Many

  Bladestrom

Elite Member

Joined: 4/04/11
Posts: 3296

8/07/13 1:56:09 PM#9
I.e ^^ typical quest trail goes zone 1-1-1-1-2 (Just in time to make 2 away) 2-1-2-2-2-3-2-3-3.


Non linear obviously 2-1-5-9-15-2-2-1-1. Etc. except 1-5 represents travelling!!

rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW (1000 hrs on main mage)> oblivion > LOTR (480 Hunter) > Rift (230 hours mage) > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(900 elementalist), Wildstar

Now playing GW2, AOW 3

  keithian

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/20/06
Posts: 2965

8/07/13 2:21:45 PM#10
Originally posted by CthulhuPuffs
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
Originally posted by psychosiszz

Sorry but this game is extremely linear. There is a illusion of freedom, but thats all it is. Its still a themepark game with no sandbox features. It also uses a channel system for zones... which i despise instancing is just plain awful.

I hate how linear MMO's make zones into simple stepping stones for getting to max level and the player never ventures there again. Makes the world feel fake. Elder scrolls was all about a living breathing world I see none of that here.

you sound like you actually playd the game, yet it seems all people with handson experience in general disagree with you. The game allows for random exploration and every which way you go you will find different content, both quests and dungeons.

 

even tough TESO has those zones, the world is designed in such a way that you will not feel any linearity. atleast thats the information we got from recent playtesters. 

 

this game has more freedom then any other story based mmo, if you want a sandbox, its not here.. if you like a game with lots andlots of content, then its here. 

Doesnt matter if we have played ESO or not. Most of us have played the same type of Level Based game. The ONLY difference is that this time its skinned in the Elder Scrolls IP

Content goes from 1-10, 10-20, 20-30, 30-40, 40-50.  The content still progresses exactly the same way no matter which way you go. Left or Right its still the same.

Cant go too far ahead or you get PWND. No reason to go back as its all Grey.

There is only the "perception" of Freedom in a Level Based game. Its an illusion.

Linear is as Linear does.

Can you please give me an example of a game that has thrived by doing this in the last 10 years? I actually prefer a level sort of feel as long as the path in those general zones feel open for exploration. I suspect others will feel the same. I would much rather have this then explore everywhere just to have everything level up with you like Oblivion did. On top of that, if you can explore just about everywhere at level 50 what difference does it make.

There Is Always Hope!

  keithian

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/20/06
Posts: 2965

8/07/13 2:26:32 PM#11
Originally posted by CthulhuPuffs
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
Originally posted by psychosiszz

Sorry but this game is extremely linear. There is a illusion of freedom, but thats all it is. Its still a themepark game with no sandbox features. It also uses a channel system for zones... which i despise instancing is just plain awful.

I hate how linear MMO's make zones into simple stepping stones for getting to max level and the player never ventures there again. Makes the world feel fake. Elder scrolls was all about a living breathing world I see none of that here.

you sound like you actually playd the game, yet it seems all people with handson experience in general disagree with you. The game allows for random exploration and every which way you go you will find different content, both quests and dungeons.

 

even tough TESO has those zones, the world is designed in such a way that you will not feel any linearity. atleast thats the information we got from recent playtesters. 

 

this game has more freedom then any other story based mmo, if you want a sandbox, its not here.. if you like a game with lots andlots of content, then its here. 

Doesnt matter if we have played ESO or not. Most of us have played the same type of Level Based game. The ONLY difference is that this time its skinned in the Elder Scrolls IP

Content goes from 1-10, 10-20, 20-30, 30-40, 40-50.  The content still progresses exactly the same way no matter which way you go. Left or Right its still the same.

Cant go too far ahead or you get PWND. No reason to go back as its all Grey.

There is only the "perception" of Freedom in a Level Based game. Its an illusion.

Linear is as Linear does.

There are different degrees of linearity so its short sited of you to lump everything into one. If a game feels like a corridor like TOR, its very linear, if it requires exploration without quest hubs, that is far less linear. Don't assume that all gamers feel that any degree is linearity is bad. If they did, games like WOW, GW2, Lord of the Rings Online, AOC, etc would have already shut their servers down. So many of you are in the minority.

There Is Always Hope!

  CthulhuPuffs

Novice Member

Joined: 3/03/13
Posts: 379

Will consume your soul, yet stay crunchy in milk

8/07/13 2:32:01 PM#12
Originally posted by keithian
Originally posted by CthulhuPuffs
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
Originally posted by psychosiszz

Sorry but this game is extremely linear. There is a illusion of freedom, but thats all it is. Its still a themepark game with no sandbox features. It also uses a channel system for zones... which i despise instancing is just plain awful.

I hate how linear MMO's make zones into simple stepping stones for getting to max level and the player never ventures there again. Makes the world feel fake. Elder scrolls was all about a living breathing world I see none of that here.

you sound like you actually playd the game, yet it seems all people with handson experience in general disagree with you. The game allows for random exploration and every which way you go you will find different content, both quests and dungeons.

 

even tough TESO has those zones, the world is designed in such a way that you will not feel any linearity. atleast thats the information we got from recent playtesters. 

 

this game has more freedom then any other story based mmo, if you want a sandbox, its not here.. if you like a game with lots andlots of content, then its here. 

Doesnt matter if we have played ESO or not. Most of us have played the same type of Level Based game. The ONLY difference is that this time its skinned in the Elder Scrolls IP

Content goes from 1-10, 10-20, 20-30, 30-40, 40-50.  The content still progresses exactly the same way no matter which way you go. Left or Right its still the same.

Cant go too far ahead or you get PWND. No reason to go back as its all Grey.

There is only the "perception" of Freedom in a Level Based game. Its an illusion.

Linear is as Linear does.

Can you please give me an example of a game that has thrived by doing this in the last 10 years? I actually prefer a level sort of feel as long as the path in those general zones feel open for exploration. I suspect others will feel the same. I would much rather have this then explore everywhere just to have everything level up with you like Oblivion did. On top of that, if you can explore just about everywhere at level 50 what difference does it make.

An example of what? Linear level based progression? EQ, DAoC, WoW, WAR, SWTOR, etc. If you are asking for some other type of explanation then you will have to be a bit more specific as Im not sure what the "this" is that you require and explanation of

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Games Played: Too Many

  User Deleted
8/07/13 2:48:21 PM#13

If its anything like TES, it will have story chains with optional paths and its not going to be linear to where you must complete x,y,z before you can move on.

Games typically portion out content based on your level, which sucks, and uses the storyline to hand hold you in a straight path as you advance.  TES has never done this, im not sure why ESO would do that either.

 

There are a lot of people who seem to know exactly what this game is like, privy to knowledge the rest of us are not.  Thing is that actual people with hands on experience say the opposite.

 

Its hard to tell, but rest assured there are a lot of people that will make their full time job trashing the game.

 

Personally im playing it as the next installment of TES.  Don't care about endgame (if its good ill stick around ofc) don't care about buzzwords or appealing to the no-grind ADD kids...if its a good TES game ill be happy no matter what the price is.

 

The rest you can go about fighting over stuff no one knows about and placing the arbitrary standards on a game that seem to only apply to mmorpgs...mainly that this game is going to fail if it doesn't keep 10mil players subbed for 10 years...which seems to be the standard argument for all games failing.  If its a $60 game and I play it for 1 month, and its up to par with TES, ill be more than happy, could care less if pvp is bad or the endgame isn't anything special.  And yeah I kinda feel bad for a lot of these kids who need a mmorpg to fill a void in their life and place emotions typically reserved for real relationships with other people on game.  Most obvious is the scorn and heartbreak when a gamer overhypes a game in his own mind and then it turns out to only be fun for a month or two, which quickly turns to rage and vengeance...its really sad and you see it with every new launch.

  Brabbit1987

Elite Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 665

8/07/13 3:49:22 PM#14

Anyone who calls ESO linear has no idea what the definition is.

"Arranged in or extending along a straight or nearly straight line: "linear arrangements"

"Consisting of or predominantly formed using lines or outlines"

 

The only portion in the game that is linear is the levels themselves, 1 -50. The rest of the game, such as level areas, we do not know enough information to be able to say that it is linear. Such as, how much stronger will the enemies be? For all we know, there could be a lot of leeway. You could go to a higher level area and possibly do just fine as long as you are not trying to go to anything that is 10+ above your level.

However, even so, that certainly doesn't make an entire game linear. The fact that you can do quests randomly, explore in random directions, and have different results across many players is the complete opposite of linear.

Again basically, anyone who is calling it linear, doesn't know what the heck linear means. You can't just point out the levels and say the entire game is linear, that is kinda dumb. That is like saying Minecraft is linear because it has levels, and we all know how stupid of a statement that would be.

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3779

8/07/13 6:11:20 PM#15
Originally posted by CthulhuPuffs
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
Originally posted by psychosiszz

Sorry but this game is extremely linear. There is a illusion of freedom, but thats all it is. Its still a themepark game with no sandbox features. It also uses a channel system for zones... which i despise instancing is just plain awful.

I hate how linear MMO's make zones into simple stepping stones for getting to max level and the player never ventures there again. Makes the world feel fake. Elder scrolls was all about a living breathing world I see none of that here.

you sound like you actually playd the game, yet it seems all people with handson experience in general disagree with you. The game allows for random exploration and every which way you go you will find different content, both quests and dungeons.

 

even tough TESO has those zones, the world is designed in such a way that you will not feel any linearity. atleast thats the information we got from recent playtesters. 

 

this game has more freedom then any other story based mmo, if you want a sandbox, its not here.. if you like a game with lots andlots of content, then its here. 

Doesnt matter if we have played ESO or not. Most of us have played the same type of Level Based game. The ONLY difference is that this time its skinned in the Elder Scrolls IP

Content goes from 1-10, 10-20, 20-30, 30-40, 40-50.  The content still progresses exactly the same way no matter which way you go. Left or Right its still the same.

Cant go too far ahead or you get PWND. No reason to go back as its all Grey.

There is only the "perception" of Freedom in a Level Based game. Its an illusion.

Linear is as Linear does.

As opposed to what? The "reality" of freedom in a non-level based game. If you're not seeing the illusion in those games you're just not looking behind the curtain.

All games, by definition have artificial limits. There is no true freedom in any of them. Otherwise they'd be chaotic messes. You don't think there's a lack of freedom in EQN's new "rallying call" (or whatever it's called)  feature? You start with an empty plot and eventually you end up with a castle...built brick by brick in a linear fashion as a community effort. It's a neat idea and all but I see linearity there.  

And that's a game without levels... which is another illusion. All they're really doing is disguising the leveling process by getting you to go on an ability scavenger hunt to unlock new classes...with new abilities... so you can multi-class, grow and become more powerful ... pretty damn similar to what ESO is doing except ESO has levels.  So this is linear and that isn't? Give me a frigging break.

I see progression in both: one with the numbers 1-50 and the other one without numbers...pretty damn similar character development regardless. And the reason both have progression is because if they didn't the game would be excruciatingly boring. Developers know that.

But you want us to believe that having levels is the defining characteristic of linearity?  Or that all mobs everywhere should be equally tough? And that there won't be anything you can do after playing a year that you couldn't have done on day one? How frigging boring is that?

Sorry, I ain't buying what you're selling.

  furbans

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/10/13
Posts: 896

8/07/13 6:41:17 PM#16

I always expect the game and asssumed it would be a linear game.  Sure we got exploration supposeively and there are leveled zones of sorts.  Hopefully it will be not a repeat of the exact same quests if you reroll or do alts in the same alliance and each alliance will have a different experience.

For what it's worth Skyrim itself is very linear with the illusion of sandbox.

Sandbox would be something like EVE where one can be a manufacturer, miner, explorer, missioner, pirate, researcher, worm hole specialist amongst other things to fuel the lifeblood of EVE.  Hopefully ESO won't be a corridor linear game like SWTOR or Neverwinter where options are out the window.

  CthulhuPuffs

Novice Member

Joined: 3/03/13
Posts: 379

Will consume your soul, yet stay crunchy in milk

8/07/13 7:10:07 PM#17
Originally posted by Iselin
 

As opposed to what? The "reality" of freedom in a non-level based game. If you're not seeing the illusion in those games you're just not looking behind the curtain.

All games, by definition have artificial limits. There is no true freedom in any of them. Otherwise they'd be chaotic messes. You don't think there's a lack of freedom in EQN's new "rallying call" (or whatever it's called)  feature? You start with an empty plot and eventually you end up with a castle...built brick by brick in a linear fashion as a community effort. It's a neat idea and all but I see linearity there.  

And that's a game without levels... which is another illusion. All they're really doing is disguising the leveling process by getting you to go on an ability scavenger hunt to unlock new classes...with new abilities... so you can multi-class, grow and become more powerful ... pretty damn similar to what ESO is doing except ESO has levels.  So this is linear and that isn't? Give me a frigging break.

I see progression in both: one with the numbers 1-50 and the other one without numbers...pretty damn similar character development regardless. And the reason both have progression is because if they didn't the game would be excruciatingly boring. Developers know that.

But you want us to believe that having levels is the defining characteristic of linearity?  Or that all mobs everywhere should be equally tough? And that there won't be anything you can do after playing a year that you couldn't have done on day one? How frigging boring is that?

Sorry, I ain't buying what you're selling.

Your comparison has no validity to me. Just because I dont like much about ESO doesnt mean that Im an EQNext fanboi. I dont have any interest EQNext.

 

Bringer of Eternal Darkness and Despair, but also a Nutritious way to start your Morning.

Games Played: Too Many

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3779

8/07/13 7:19:06 PM#18
Originally posted by CthulhuPuffs
Originally posted by Iselin
 

As opposed to what? The "reality" of freedom in a non-level based game. If you're not seeing the illusion in those games you're just not looking behind the curtain.

All games, by definition have artificial limits. There is no true freedom in any of them. Otherwise they'd be chaotic messes. You don't think there's a lack of freedom in EQN's new "rallying call" (or whatever it's called)  feature? You start with an empty plot and eventually you end up with a castle...built brick by brick in a linear fashion as a community effort. It's a neat idea and all but I see linearity there.  

And that's a game without levels... which is another illusion. All they're really doing is disguising the leveling process by getting you to go on an ability scavenger hunt to unlock new classes...with new abilities... so you can multi-class, grow and become more powerful ... pretty damn similar to what ESO is doing except ESO has levels.  So this is linear and that isn't? Give me a frigging break.

I see progression in both: one with the numbers 1-50 and the other one without numbers...pretty damn similar character development regardless. And the reason both have progression is because if they didn't the game would be excruciatingly boring. Developers know that.

But you want us to believe that having levels is the defining characteristic of linearity?  Or that all mobs everywhere should be equally tough? And that there won't be anything you can do after playing a year that you couldn't have done on day one? How frigging boring is that?

Sorry, I ain't buying what you're selling.

Your comparison has no validity to me. Just because I dont like much about ESO doesnt mean that Im an EQNext fanboi. I dont have any interest EQNext.

 

It's a game without levels that most people here who just have an interest in MMO news know something about these days...

Here, I'll make it totally non-specific for you: levels has nothing to do with linearity and "freedom" in all MMOs is just an illusion.

And what does "validity" have to do with anything? You expressed an opinion, nothing more. I'm simply pointing out the error of your ways...in my opinion.

  Realbigdeal

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/28/08
Posts: 1648

8/08/13 12:28:55 AM#19

It's really too bad that ESO is not gonna be a sandbox. It's what everyone wanted it to be including the fans of ESO. Only one whole area to go pvp and the rest of the world is safe. I mean wtf?? When you have faction system, there's no reason to place a safe zone in your game even inside cities or quest lobby.

When i looked at the video on E3 or what ever it was, it looked to be even more linear than i thought it would have been and it's too late to change that even if the game will release in 2014 since they're now working on porting the whole game to consoles and this will be the doom of ESO.

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  jesusjuice69

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/07/13
Posts: 293

8/08/13 12:37:17 AM#20
Originally posted by CthulhuPuffs
Originally posted by keithian
Originally posted by CthulhuPuffs
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
Originally posted by psychosiszz

Sorry but this game is extremely linear. There is a illusion of freedom, but thats all it is. Its still a themepark game with no sandbox features. It also uses a channel system for zones... which i despise instancing is just plain awful.

I hate how linear MMO's make zones into simple stepping stones for getting to max level and the player never ventures there again. Makes the world feel fake. Elder scrolls was all about a living breathing world I see none of that here.

you sound like you actually playd the game, yet it seems all people with handson experience in general disagree with you. The game allows for random exploration and every which way you go you will find different content, both quests and dungeons.

 

even tough TESO has those zones, the world is designed in such a way that you will not feel any linearity. atleast thats the information we got from recent playtesters. 

 

this game has more freedom then any other story based mmo, if you want a sandbox, its not here.. if you like a game with lots andlots of content, then its here. 

Doesnt matter if we have played ESO or not. Most of us have played the same type of Level Based game. The ONLY difference is that this time its skinned in the Elder Scrolls IP

Content goes from 1-10, 10-20, 20-30, 30-40, 40-50.  The content still progresses exactly the same way no matter which way you go. Left or Right its still the same.

Cant go too far ahead or you get PWND. No reason to go back as its all Grey.

There is only the "perception" of Freedom in a Level Based game. Its an illusion.

Linear is as Linear does.

Can you please give me an example of a game that has thrived by doing this in the last 10 years? I actually prefer a level sort of feel as long as the path in those general zones feel open for exploration. I suspect others will feel the same. I would much rather have this then explore everywhere just to have everything level up with you like Oblivion did. On top of that, if you can explore just about everywhere at level 50 what difference does it make.

An example of what? Linear level based progression? EQ, DAoC, WoW, WAR, SWTOR, etc. If you are asking for some other type of explanation then you will have to be a bit more specific as Im not sure what the "this" is that you require and explanation of

He said example, not explanation.  An example of a non linear game that is doing well. 

TSW is a fairly non linear game for instance, but it failed miserably!

 

His point is that no such game exists, because it can't be done well.   Leveling is a core mechanic of MMOs!  The only way to get rid of it completely is to make a game that isn't in the least bit challenging.  Not only is it no challenging, but it would have to not require you to get better at your character at as you level.  Every zone would have to be built under the assumption that the people walking in here are complete and utter noobs.

You also leave the sense of achievement from going from one zone to the other.  You have a sense your character is progressing.  When your character seems stagnant, then you lose interest in the game, and you quit playing.  Character progression is at the cornerstone of MMOs!  Remove leveling, and you remove a huge a huge block from that cornerstone, and the whole thing comes crashing down.

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