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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Will the upcoming wave of AAA sandboxes mmos change the public preferences?

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52 posts found
  Mardukk

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/05/11
Posts: 1462

8/07/13 12:08:04 PM#41
Originally posted by Shadowguy64
Originally posted by Malcanis
Originally posted by maccarthur2004

In the start, almost all mmos were sandbox. Then came EQ and later WoW with the themepark formula. The phenomenal success of WoW shaped the mmo market for the next 10 years, creating a paradigm that all AAA productions followed. The sandboxes became indie products.

 

Well, with the upcoming wave of AAA sandboxes/sandparks, will the market and the public preferences change once again in the opposite direction? Will these AAA mmorpgs "teach" the public to play and appreciate sandboxes? Will the themepark elements that some of them bring within serve as a "bridge" in that transition?

 

Open to opinions.

 

 

What constitutes a "wave" of releases?

 

Two or three?

More than zero.  

 

I do wonder if people will adapt to having some freedom and consequences to their actions.  Will people adjust to not having their hands held?  I hope so.  Being told what to do and being lead by the hand is insanely dull, in my opinion.

Hell, I'm playing Darkfall and I hate PvP.  Just the prospect of freedom and being treated like an adult allow me to over look the unique community (putting it nicely) and PvP focus.

  Onomas

Novice Member

Joined: 7/05/11
Posts: 1160

Sandbox is your only hope for a decent mmo ;)

8/07/13 12:12:52 PM#42

Always has been a preference to sandbox games, just over shadowed by companies making games for wimpy little kids that expect their mmorpg to be like a console rpg and dumbed the industry down to a point they had no choice but to go back old school.

It will take awhile to get these newer games in tip top shape. And hopefully end the entitlement, I want, give me free, lazy games that have spewed out over the past 5+ years.

 

Sorry if I offended anyone, but you have 2000 crap games, stop trying to turn a handful into those.

  BadSpock

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/21/04
Posts: 7769

Logic be damned!

8/07/13 12:22:41 PM#43

I play MMORPGs to get gameplay experiences I cannot get in other genres.

Massively Multiplayer Online.

That's the big one.

Large group PvE, sometimes even PvP.

I also like on-demand content - because I don't have all the time in the world anymore to farm/wait/camp/etc.

So unless the MMORPG has on-demand large group PvE, sometimes PvP, and highly robust character building and progression, count me out.

Virtual world aspects like housing and an evolving storyline are big, big pluses in my book.

Interdependency of players, as in everyone plays a role and you need other people of different roles to do great things, is a big defining point of the Massively Multiplayer part to me.

What's the point of having all these other people around if you don't need them?

 

I don't want your action combat. I don't want to build the game myself. i don't want to solo everything. I really, really don't want your F2P, P2W, RMT nonsense either. Give me the buffet - one price, unlimited access.

For all the new and wonderful things this genre has added over the past decade+, they sure have tried to take away FAR too many of the things that make the MMO genre unique and special.

Now Playing: Destiny, WoW

  psychosiszz

Novice Member

Joined: 9/18/05
Posts: 43

8/07/13 12:25:35 PM#44

I feel alot of MMO gamers are sick and tired of the same old theme-park games.

The great thing about sandbox games is that the content is run by players. Which means people can do unique and interesting things with the tools given to them. 

The problem with previous sandbox MMORPG's is that you often don't know what your doing, and it takes a while to understand it all. Modern gamers don't have the mental patience us older gamers do (Damn did I say that im 27 lol i feel old now). Which is why I can see a combo theme-park and sandbox emerging. Theme park to hold the players hand and guide them to the sand and how to use it.

One can hope it does change the way people view MMORPG's and set a new bar. I want a living, breathing world, a world which you can change via building and destruction, a seamless world (no zones) and where areas you went early game aren't redundant but still needed for resources/conquest etc. A game where you feel like a part of the world and not some lobby game where you queue up in the main city and wait for PVP/PVE.

 

  botrytis

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 2564

8/07/13 12:32:08 PM#45
Originally posted by maccarthur2004

In the start, almost all mmos were sandbox. Then came EQ and later WoW with the themepark formula. The phenomenal success of WoW shaped the mmo market for the next 10 years, creating a paradigm that all AAA productions followed. The sandboxes became indie products.

 

Well, with the upcoming wave of AAA sandboxes/sandparks, will the market and the public preferences change once again in the opposite direction? Will these AAA mmorpgs "teach" the public to play and appreciate sandboxes? Will the themepark elements that some of them bring within serve as a "bridge" in that transition?

 

Open to opinions.

 

 

 

 

No they won't change any perceptions. If they are too easy people that are 'hardcore' (like members of this forum)  will complain loudly and the general public will play ( see GW2 as a prime example). If you make it too hard, the hardcore will be happy and the general public won't play (read dead game) and this is due to not many hardcore players. It is as simple as that - make the game for where the money is.

"In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  User Deleted
8/07/13 12:34:15 PM#46
Old school hardcore mmorpg historian here, speaking from 25 years of mmorpg experience, I've seen it all sandpark, themepark, ballpark. I have also performed many many extensive research projects on this very subject. I can tell you today without a shadow of doubt that public preference will be related in some way shape or form to the amount of enjoyment they get from the games, and if you don't believe me look it up in the plethora of knowledgeable books, articles, podcasts, and web pages that define fun.
  Gorilla

Old School

Joined: 6/07/04
Posts: 2218

8/07/13 12:43:25 PM#47
Originally posted by maccarthur2004

In the start, almost all mmos were sandbox. Then came EQ and later WoW with the themepark formula. The phenomenal success of WoW shaped the mmo market for the next 10 years, creating a paradigm that all AAA productions followed. The sandboxes became indie products.

 

Well, with the upcoming wave of AAA sandboxes/sandparks, will the market and the public preferences change once again in the opposite direction? Will these AAA mmorpgs "teach" the public to play and appreciate sandboxes? Will the themepark elements that some of them bring within serve as a "bridge" in that transition?

 

Open to opinions.

Pretty much agree with your potted history of MMO's though I am not sure about this 'wave of AAA sandboxes". Sure some games are claiming to be more 'sandboxy' and I hear one is actually a Smedbox. I dunno, developers are definitely folding back into the mix some of the ideas that got surgically removed from EQ/WoW. There are even <gasp> new things being tried but I don't really see a sandbox renaissance?

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20540

8/07/13 12:58:38 PM#48
Originally posted by psychosiszz

I feel alot of MMO gamers are sick and tired of the same old theme-park games.


 

Yes, but sandbox is not the only alternative. In fact, you see players flocking to MOBAs, online APRGs, and other types of online games.

That is also why new ideas like Destiny and Division are being heavily invested in.

 

  Grixxitt

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/18/12
Posts: 557

8/07/13 1:11:33 PM#49
Originally posted by Shadowguy64
Originally posted by Malcanis
Originally posted by maccarthur2004

Well, with the upcoming wave of AAA sandboxes/sandparks, will the market and the public preferences change once again in the opposite direction? Will these AAA mmorpgs "teach" the public to play and appreciate sandboxes? Will the themepark elements that some of them bring within serve as a "bridge" in that transition?

What constitutes a "wave" of releases?

Two or three?

The Repopulation

ArcheAge

EQ Next

Embers of Caerus

World of Darkness

Black Desert

 

(Just off the top of my head)

The above is my personal opinion. Anyone displaying a view contrary to my opinion is obviously WRONG and should STHU. (neener neener)

-The MMO Forum Community

  Axehilt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/09
Posts: 7213

8/07/13 5:49:58 PM#50
Originally posted by Scot

Well there is an illusion of success in a themepark, I think you must realise the devs do not want us to think of it as a content ride. There is the idea of being one of the top dogs in the game for a minority but also the idea you have made it just by getting to top level.

I do not think there is any perfect place for a themepark/sandbox to pitch itself. So I do not think the ones that will succeed will be the ones with the best quality themepark elements. On the other hand strip too many of those thempark elements away or do them poorly and I cannot see how such a MMO will make a splash. Maybe for a niche of players but that is all.

Why would the devs care if we think of it as a ride?  Dev-crafted "rides" can be extremely elaborate, deep gameplay experiences.

The quality of a "ride" in a game is actually rooted in the possibility of failure -- in player decisions mattering -- so that makes it a lot different than a real-world ride where participants seldom have decisions to make.

  Scot

Elite Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5396

8/08/13 11:37:00 AM#51
Originally posted by Axehilt
Originally posted by Scot

Well there is an illusion of success in a themepark, I think you must realise the devs do not want us to think of it as a content ride. There is the idea of being one of the top dogs in the game for a minority but also the idea you have made it just by getting to top level.

I do not think there is any perfect place for a themepark/sandbox to pitch itself. So I do not think the ones that will succeed will be the ones with the best quality themepark elements. On the other hand strip too many of those thempark elements away or do them poorly and I cannot see how such a MMO will make a splash. Maybe for a niche of players but that is all.

Why would the devs care if we think of it as a ride?  Dev-crafted "rides" can be extremely elaborate, deep gameplay experiences.

The quality of a "ride" in a game is actually rooted in the possibility of failure -- in player decisions mattering -- so that makes it a lot different than a real-world ride where participants seldom have decisions to make.

Well a ride has the connotation to me of being a simple Disneyland style experience. It does not seem to for you, so I imagine this is why you think the devs would be happy for us to think of their games in that way. Indeed if you can fail a "ride" then we do not mean the same thing when using that term.

  BCuse

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/12/05
Posts: 140

8/18/13 10:57:19 PM#52
Originally posted by BadSpock

I play MMORPGs to get gameplay experiences I cannot get in other genres.

Massively Multiplayer Online.

That's the big one.

Large group PvE, sometimes even PvP.

I also like on-demand content - because I don't have all the time in the world anymore to farm/wait/camp/etc.

So unless the MMORPG has on-demand large group PvE, sometimes PvP, and highly robust character building and progression, count me out.

Virtual world aspects like housing and an evolving storyline are big, big pluses in my book.

Interdependency of players, as in everyone plays a role and you need other people of different roles to do great things, is a big defining point of the Massively Multiplayer part to me.

What's the point of having all these other people around if you don't need them?

 

I don't want your action combat. I don't want to build the game myself. i don't want to solo everything. I really, really don't want your F2P, P2W, RMT nonsense either. Give me the buffet - one price, unlimited access.

For all the new and wonderful things this genre has added over the past decade+, they sure have tried to take away FAR too many of the things that make the MMO genre unique and special.

My thoughts exactly, well said!

 

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