Trending Games | The Crew | Landmark | Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor | WildStar

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,850,785 Users Online:0
Games:732  Posts:6,224,117
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Deco Online Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Phoenix Edition LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Project Blackout Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Puzzle Pirates Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Hammers End The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Total Domination Transformers Universe Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

General Discussion

General Discussion 

News & Features Discussion  » [Column] Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn: You Got Theme Park in My Sandbox

3 Pages 1 2 3 » Search
43 posts found
  SBFord

Associate Editor - News Manager

Joined: 6/28/10
Posts: 13281

 
OP  8/05/13 6:00:04 PM#1

The discussion ever rages about whether or not any MMO these days can be classified as a sandbox or a theme park. In today's Eorzea Reborn, we take a look at aspects of both that are present in Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn. Check it out and then leave us your opinion in the comments.

One thing that fascinates me in MMO development is the rush of “me too” design philosophies.  Make no mistake, these always involve genuine and important design decisions.  They become “me too” when the industry kind of latches on to an idea and every MMO in development starts including them as marketing buzzwords. 

In recent years, the “me too” design of the month has included the ‘no Holy Trinity approach,’ ‘action combat,’ and ‘story based game play.’  Each of these are important decisions and I’m not knocking these choices, they represent attempts to define new market segments.  

Read more of Ryahl Smith's Eorzea Reborn: You Got Theme Park in My Sandbox.

Associate Editor: MMORPG.com
Follow me on Twitter: @MMORPGMom

  knightaudit

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/06/05
Posts: 243

Those are my thoughts, not yours

8/06/13 2:34:00 PM#2

Very nice article ... and it shows how there are 2 sides of gaming. I do think what is needed in the industry right now is the right and propper blend of the 2. What that is and how it would look is anyones guess, but right off the top of my head .. Dungeons .. they should be instanced, you do not want to spend your time fighting to the bottom of some dungeon .. in a battle with the final boss and have someone run in and collect your treasure while you finish the boss off ... no one would like that .. and i am sure some would say ... too bad so sad.

What I would suggest for dungeons is scale. What that would be is if you have a person that likes to solo the dungeon scales to that person ... be it one or 5 and could even scale to the level (unless you do not use a leveling system), teasure would drop at a level and frequency that would be equal to a group of 5. this would mean say a dungeon would gain you 50 gold if you did it as a 5 man group .. you would still get 50g, if it were normally to drop 5 items .. it would drop 1 for that one man group ... or 3 for a 3 man .. and so on. the challenge would still be the same be it 1, 3 or 5 man, but no more sitting there waiting for LFG to kick in.

Even having said that I know you will have someone who does not like it .. because simply you cannot make everyone happy. Best you can do is make as many as you can happy about 2 sides of a coin.

  Ryahl

Novice Member

Joined: 12/10/12
Posts: 44

Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.

8/06/13 2:49:44 PM#3

Thanks Knightaudit.  

I miss the contested dungeons of older MMO's.  The shared dungeon experiences of EQ (Unrest, Mistmoore, Kedge Keep or Tower of Frozen Shadows) and EQ2 (Stormhold or the SolA/SolB reimagining) contain some of my favorite MMO memories.  

I understand why theme parks moved towards instances (kill stealing, training, etc.) but I liked having to deal with respawns and running into people in the bottom of a dungeon.

I think that recent games with multi-tapping rules (DCUO, LOTR, GW2, etc.) open the door to go back to large, shared PVE environments.  Instances still have their place, they free up the developers to try create more complex encounter mechanics.  

Ryahl - writer of eye-bleeders
FFXIV Fansite | TSWGuides
Follow me on Twitter

  BadSpock

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/21/04
Posts: 7699

Logic be damned!

8/06/13 2:53:06 PM#4

Not much about FFXIV:ARR is there?

Should be a more general column, not specific to the game IMO as it is MUCH more about themepark vs. sandbox.

 

FFXIV:ARR is definitely a themepark, as you said, unapologetically so.

ARR is also giving a ton of different rides, and in a lot of ways, allowing you the player to choose which to ride and which to skip, as well as which to repeat to your heart's content in a way that is somewhat unique in the genre.

Building a better park IMO - and that is EXACTLY what I want out of my MMORPG.

Great character building, great graphics, cross platform play, excellent story, lots of group content both small and large scale, a full housing system, and the promise of a subscription fee with NO item mall or cash shop or freemium premium F2P B2P P2W or RMT.

Now Playing:
Looking Towards: Destiny

  UsulDaNeriak

Novice Member

Joined: 2/19/07
Posts: 642

8/06/13 2:54:44 PM#5

The upcoming AAA titles, which do marketing with the term "sandbox" will be far away from sandbox. They will be themeparks with some features smelling a bit sandboxish.

Sandbox is a basic design philosophy, not a couple of sandbox-features. It is not defined by features! In a pure sandbox everything except tools and the sand is player driven not pre-made by the devs.

 

Of course, deviations from the puristic model are possible. You can add premade adventures to a sandbox, e.g. optional quests.  But these quests would work fully different. Just think about the reward structure, which has to fit into a fully player-driven economy. And I doubt, theme-park-fans would like this kind of questing. You also can develop a sandbox without pvp-ffa: heck even without combat at all. And such sandboxes do exist.

 

But you cannot add sandbox features to game, which is designed based on the theme-park model and call it a sandbox. Its core and its underlying design philosophy remains theme-park. You will just get a more flexible and dynamix theme-park, thats it.

 

 

Looking to FFXIV, your title is wrong: you just get more sand in your theme-park. But that does not make a sandbox.

Even looking to EQN. All I expect, is an even more dynamic theme-park than GW2.

Which is'nt a bad thing!

 
 
 
 
 

played: Everquest I (6 years), EVE (3 years)
months: EQII, Vanguard, Siedler Online, SWTOR, Guild Wars 2
weeks: WoW, Shaiya, Darkfall, Florensia, Entropia, Aion, Lotro, Fallen Earth, Uncharted Waters
days: DDO, RoM, FFXIV, STO, Atlantica, PotBS, Maestia, WAR, AoC, Gods&Heroes, Cultures, RIFT, Forsaken World, Allodds

  Ryahl

Novice Member

Joined: 12/10/12
Posts: 44

Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.

8/06/13 3:04:24 PM#6
Originally posted by UsulDaNeriak

But you cannot add sandbox features to game, which is designed based on the theme-park model and call it a sandbox. Its core and its underlying design philosophy remains theme-park. You will just get a more flexible and dynamix theme-park, thats it.

And this is exactly, what i expect from EQN: an even more dynamic GW2 or something like that.

There are two EQ Next products and the details on each are still pretty murky.

My take on what I watched is that EQ Next is a more dynamic and adaptive theme park.  It sounds like it has some sandboxy aspirations, but it also sounds like there are plenty of stopgaps planned to minimize the ability of one player to adversely affect the other.

The other product, EQ Next Landmark, though, sounds pretty sandboxy in a Second Life sort of format.  It seems to lack combat, but as you note combat isn't essential to a sandbox.

The two products integrate with content from Landmark filtering into Next, but the specifics are pretty vague at the moment.

It is quite possible that Landmark is a bigger deal than Next.

Ryahl - writer of eye-bleeders
FFXIV Fansite | TSWGuides
Follow me on Twitter

  Murugan

Novice Member

Joined: 4/18/08
Posts: 1567

8/06/13 3:05:26 PM#7

I don't think the sand people will ever be happy or get what they want in a AAA title, however I do hope that they will direct their anger towards those upcoming games claiming to be sandboxes and stop raiding the rest of the subforums with their condescending attitudes towards gaming ("I don't NEED to be told what to do, I create my own games inside my mind", "You are just playing into the man's rat race duuuuude").

 

Personally I like group PvE content the most, it is largely why I play MMORPG's.  Sandbox titles, however you define them, (UO, SWG, EvE, AC) have terrible grouping content.  The way they are designed must just prevent developers from designing good content for them.

 

I have played many sandboxes, they are definitely a different type of game, and they can be fun at least for a short while.  However at the end of the day I want to accomplish things in-game with friends, not play a PvP carousel or role play my character in a void.  I get that to some the "themepark grind" is just that a "grind" but to me it is a game, I play them for the same reason I played games as a kid to beat them and enjoy myself and the challenges along the way, and sandboxes to me aren't really games they are pretend lands.

 

Pretend lands where people can stroke their virtual egos in PvP "domination" and role playing the most famous entertainer/crafter/erpg lady of the night.

http://xivpads.com/?1595680
http://guildwork.com/users/murugan

  Ryahl

Novice Member

Joined: 12/10/12
Posts: 44

Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.

8/06/13 3:12:30 PM#8
Originally posted by BadSpock

Not much about FFXIV:ARR is there?

Should be a more general column, not specific to the game IMO as it is MUCH more about themepark vs. sandbox.

 

FFXIV:ARR is definitely a themepark, as you said, unapologetically so.

ARR is also giving a ton of different rides, and in a lot of ways, allowing you the player to choose which to ride and which to skip, as well as which to repeat to your heart's content in a way that is somewhat unique in the genre.

Building a better park IMO - and that is EXACTLY what I want out of my MMORPG.

Great character building, great graphics, cross platform play, excellent story, lots of group content both small and large scale, a full housing system, and the promise of a subscription fee with NO item mall or cash shop or freemium premium F2P B2P P2W or RMT.

I would that there was more to say about FFXIV right now, but I think we are all stuck waiting for Thursday (and a few days after that for full translations).

The article is very much a general MMO focus, but my column is primarily a FFXIV one.  With downtime between beta-3 and beta-4 I'm going to branch out a bit, but I have to try to tie it back to ARR as well.

Agreed on the other points!

Ryahl - writer of eye-bleeders
FFXIV Fansite | TSWGuides
Follow me on Twitter

  UsulDaNeriak

Novice Member

Joined: 2/19/07
Posts: 642

8/06/13 3:12:54 PM#9
Originally posted by Ryahl
 

The other product, EQ Next Landmark, though, sounds pretty sandboxy in a Second Life sort of format.  It seems to lack combat, but as you note combat isn't essential to a sandbox.

The two products integrate with content from Landmark filtering into Next, but the specifics are pretty vague at the moment.

It is quite possible that Landmark is a bigger deal than Next.

 

Yes, Landmark could become the better Minecraft. Does that mean, that I will enjoy it more, than a very dynamic, flexible and versatile EQN-themepark? Most propably I will enjoy both equally.

 

played: Everquest I (6 years), EVE (3 years)
months: EQII, Vanguard, Siedler Online, SWTOR, Guild Wars 2
weeks: WoW, Shaiya, Darkfall, Florensia, Entropia, Aion, Lotro, Fallen Earth, Uncharted Waters
days: DDO, RoM, FFXIV, STO, Atlantica, PotBS, Maestia, WAR, AoC, Gods&Heroes, Cultures, RIFT, Forsaken World, Allodds

  aesperus

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 4745

8/06/13 3:16:26 PM#10
Originally posted by BadSpock

Not much about FFXIV:ARR is there?

Should be a more general column, not specific to the game IMO as it is MUCH more about themepark vs. sandbox.

 

FFXIV:ARR is definitely a themepark, as you said, unapologetically so.

ARR is also giving a ton of different rides, and in a lot of ways, allowing you the player to choose which to ride and which to skip, as well as which to repeat to your heart's content in a way that is somewhat unique in the genre.

Building a better park IMO - and that is EXACTLY what I want out of my MMORPG.

Great character building, great graphics, cross platform play, excellent story, lots of group content both small and large scale, a full housing system, and the promise of a subscription fee with NO item mall or cash shop or freemium premium F2P B2P P2W or RMT.

Agreed on this ^

And one of the more accurate assessments as to what type of game ARR actually is.

  User Deleted
8/06/13 3:23:03 PM#11

I think when you add enough types of "rides" to a themepark, it starts to resemble a sandbox. I think ultimately, thats where the future of the genre lies.

I want my themeparks to be more like going to the fair. Roller coasters, dark rides, carnival games, exhibit halls, petting zoos, musical acts, arts and crafts, 100 food carts, rodeos etc.

You go to magic mountain expecting to ride rollercoasters. You go to the fair expecting a little bit of everything. Both are a lot of fun. Both are considered "themeparks". But one definitely has more choices and varied experiences than the other. Thats what Id like to see next generation themeparks become.

  BadSpock

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/21/04
Posts: 7699

Logic be damned!

8/06/13 3:24:20 PM#12
Originally posted by aesperus
Originally posted by BadSpock

FFXIV:ARR is definitely a themepark, as you said, unapologetically so.

ARR is also giving a ton of different rides, and in a lot of ways, allowing you the player to choose which to ride and which to skip, as well as which to repeat to your heart's content in a way that is somewhat unique in the genre.

Building a better park IMO - and that is EXACTLY what I want out of my MMORPG.

Great character building, great graphics, cross platform play, excellent story, lots of group content both small and large scale, a full housing system, and the promise of a subscription fee with NO item mall or cash shop or freemium premium F2P B2P P2W or RMT.

Agreed on this ^

And one of the more accurate assessments as to what type of game ARR actually is.

People who go to Six Flags don't want to keep showing up and not find any new rides, or find their favorite rides broken.

They want new rides, better rides, but they want them to still be roller coasters.

RPG fans I think also want more character building, more story, more immersion and "ownership" in the world.

MMO devs need to REALLY sit down and think about what they are taking away as they keep trying to add new things and change old ones.

You don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

That's the real problem IMO with what has been done to WoW, what happened to Rift, to TOR, to GW2.. all these new games and such over the past 7-8 years.

For all the new stuff they've added and changed, they took out far, far too much of what makes MMORPGs special and a unique genre in the first place.

I'm happy to see a game like FFXIV:ARR putting some of those things back in.

Forced grouping, player interdependence, housing, alternate advancement paths, involved crafting...

Now Playing:
Looking Towards: Destiny

  Daaken

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/01/13
Posts: 160

“It is better to fail in originality than to succeed in imitation.”

8/06/13 3:30:04 PM#13
Originally posted by BadSpock
Originally posted by aesperus
Originally posted by BadSpock

FFXIV:ARR is definitely a themepark, as you said, unapologetically so.

ARR is also giving a ton of different rides, and in a lot of ways, allowing you the player to choose which to ride and which to skip, as well as which to repeat to your heart's content in a way that is somewhat unique in the genre.

Building a better park IMO - and that is EXACTLY what I want out of my MMORPG.

Great character building, great graphics, cross platform play, excellent story, lots of group content both small and large scale, a full housing system, and the promise of a subscription fee with NO item mall or cash shop or freemium premium F2P B2P P2W or RMT.

Agreed on this ^

And one of the more accurate assessments as to what type of game ARR actually is.

People who go to Six Flags don't want to keep showing up and not find any new rides, or find their favorite rides broken.

They want new rides, better rides, but they want them to still be roller coasters.

RPG fans I think also want more character building, more story, more immersion and "ownership" in the world.

MMO devs need to REALLY sit down and think about what they are taking away as they keep trying to add new things and change old ones.

You don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

The problem with all themeparks is the designers can not build new, exciting and original rides quick enough for the content locusts to consume them, Until an MMO can produce procedural content themeparks will never be as good as a sandbox that gives me total freedom.

Random Forum Poster: I want an MMO that is different, original and fun.

Me: So you want something like EQN

Them: Nah dude, I want a Holy Trinity, Tab Target combat, Instanced Raiding, and Rigid classes.

Me: Double Facepalm.

  BadSpock

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/21/04
Posts: 7699

Logic be damned!

8/06/13 3:35:27 PM#14
Originally posted by Daaken
Originally posted by BadSpock

People who go to Six Flags don't want to keep showing up and not find any new rides, or find their favorite rides broken.

They want new rides, better rides, but they want them to still be roller coasters.

RPG fans I think also want more character building, more story, more immersion and "ownership" in the world.

MMO devs need to REALLY sit down and think about what they are taking away as they keep trying to add new things and change old ones.

You don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

The problem with all themeparks is the designers can not build new, exciting and original rides quick enough for the content locusts to consume them, Until an MMO can produce procedural content themeparks will never be as good as a sandbox that gives me total freedom.

Total freedom to do what exactly? Not have developer created content?

Farm mobs? Farm dungeons? PvP? Collect junk to fill your house?

I played a hell of a lot of UO and SWG back in the day, as well as have spent a decent chunk of time in EvE, and PvE in a sandbox has always since the beginning of the genre been total garbage, with the only true "freedom" and emergent content being PvP and housing.

Only reason I could put up with the PvE (grinding) back in the day was - there was nothing else/better!

Story, instanced small and large group content... huge game changers... a lot of the problem isn't with the amount of content, it is with the player not understanding or being willing to tackle ALL of the available content.

How many current WoW players have beat all the new raids on every difficulty available?

No matter what, it is always a grind of some sort. Always some sort of treadmill.

Procedural will never be as good as hand crafted, and unless you truly enjoy UGC - content, be it in sandbox or themepark, is always finite.

Now Playing:
Looking Towards: Destiny

  Leiros

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/03/10
Posts: 211

"mmorpg.com forums: Where SWG vets go to die."

8/06/13 4:26:44 PM#15

I still think that the original SWG did an excellent job of blending themepark with sandbox. Yes, you could run themeparks such as Jabba's Palace, Nym's Stronghold, Empire/Rebel Themeparks etc., but those were mainly for badges and achievements. The economy was entirely player driven and even the housing/player cities were determined by the players.

 

Personally, I like a theme park with sandbox elements. If I wanted a true sandbox I would be playing Minecraft or DFUW. I think BadSpock said it best when he said:

"Great character building, great graphics, cross platform play, excellent story, lots of group content both small and large scale, a full housing system, and the promise of a subscription fee with NO item mall or cash shop or freemium premium F2P B2P P2W or RMT."

That's what I'm looking for in an mmo. (Although I do still miss original SWG)

  User Deleted
8/06/13 4:30:48 PM#16

Interesting article. I sort of disagree with "dynamic events" being "themepark-y". It depends on how dynamic the event is. GW2 is certainly themepark (no player effect on the outcome, really, the event doesn't change the world after it has been completed). EQN promises to have a themepark "framework" with a sandbox ending (depending on what action players take, that will be how it is on that server from then on out, thus showing the players as a whole having an effect on the gameworld). That is a positive step in the right direction through use of programmed dynamic events, in my opinion. Of course, caveat emptor.

 

The ability to "create content" doesn't necessarily indicate sandbox. Neverwinter is themepark content creation. A few enterprising individuals tried to make your choices fairly unlimited in the quest they made, but gave up and quit the scene entirely (a little while after launch, in fact) after developers started in on changes that rewarded themepark quests, not sandbox quests. What you can take away from that is simply "it is themepark player content" until the developers actually support branching storylines and multiple-choice options (because, due to the way quests are timed and rewarded, the completion of linear objectives garners an exp and item reward, not open ended, no objective hackneyed "quests").

 

I won't argue that EVE right now is the definitive Sandbox that exists in the current market. That type of game isn't my cuppa, but I don't deride the game. You can also go too far with the sandbox, and make it not fun to play or easily played by players, thus driving possible customers off. Wurms Online is a superb example of a perfect sandbox game, which is literally unplayable (that is to say, not fun for a majority of people who have attempted to play it). For some reason, SoE has done a much better job at retaining players and making it easy, while at the same time, offering the depth of interaction (economically, etc.) which can satisfy all but the most insane in this regard.

 

Again, while the definition of sandpark seems to vary upon which armchair developer is talking about it at the time, in its simplicity, it is a game world where the players can do what they want without being dictated a single approach, and (either socially, economically, or in the actual game world itself) can create an effect.

 

Player housing glutting the landscape wasn't what made SWG a sandbox. 70% of what made that game a sandbox was simply the fact that you could create an effect upon the social infrastructure of the game as a player, and the remainder stemmed from the ability to level your character any which way you chose to do so. Plenty of options. On plenty of worlds.

 

Is that the only playstyle acceptable? No. WOW proved that, if nothing else. There is plenty of market for themeparks despite the sandbox fans wanting something different. The problem as I see it (and why the development swing toward "sandboxy") is simply...

 

We haven't had something different for a long time. SoE was smart in saying "we wanted to do things which haven't been done before" and then attaching it to a sandbox. Because, for the majority of people who started with WOW, they haven't really seen anything like it. They haven't been made.

 

I don't think labelling a sandbox game with some themepark elements as "themepark" (EQ)  is entirely fair, just as I think that labeling a themepark game with some sandboxy elements (NWO) is accurate, either. There are millions of shades of grey on this.

  itchmon

Elite Member

Joined: 1/21/07
Posts: 1532

8/06/13 4:35:21 PM#17
Ryahl that might have been the best thought-out, most well conceived article that I have ever read on this site. And I feel it should be required reading for anyone entering the themebox sandpark discussions.

Thanks! Incidentally it also kept my mind off the cortizone shot I'm about to get (reading it in doctors waiting rm)

RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.

Currently Playing EVE, DFUW

Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.

Dwight D Eisenhower

My optimism wears heavy boots and is loud.

Henry Rollins

  Tierless

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/01/08
Posts: 2111

joie de vivre

8/06/13 4:40:28 PM#18
Nice read

mmorpg.com/blogs/Xobdnas

  Brialyn

Novice Member

Joined: 5/20/08
Posts: 184

8/06/13 4:46:37 PM#19

I wasn't tired of theme parks, I was only tired of the lacking theme park. So far FFXIV:ARR seems to be doing it right for me and my tastes.  Personally, I have no desire to play a sandbox and frankly I'm tired of the idea that this someone makes me less of a gamer.  Different strokes folks. 

Thank you for a very unbiased article! :D 



Currently Playing: FFXIV:ARR
Looking Forward to: Wildstar

  calyptic101

Novice Member

Joined: 5/19/11
Posts: 5

8/06/13 5:07:03 PM#20
Eve doing it right for 10 years
3 Pages 1 2 3 » Search