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EverQuest Next

EverQuest Next 

General Discussion  » This is why I hate the action combat focus (not just EQNext)

18 posts found
  Margulis

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/14/08
Posts: 1643

 
OP  8/06/13 10:02:22 AM#1
First let me say this isn't just EQNext, but mmo's as a whole.  Any mmo that I've played with an action style combat focus provides that at the cost of something else that I happen to enjoy and really miss - strategy, crowd control, planning and organization.  I really miss grouping up for a dungeon and even on the trash mobs having to meticulously do pulls, CC, etc or else you wipe.  Now it's pretty much just zerg it up and blast through everything, which is really disappointing. 
  vtravi

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/25/08
Posts: 230

8/06/13 10:06:19 AM#2
Agreed. I Like alot of what EQN is doing, but the lack of some kind of Trinity and the fact that all classes have to dps will keep me away from this game.
  Kiyoris

Novice Member

Joined: 7/13/13
Posts: 364

8/06/13 10:17:32 AM#3

Hmm, for me the trinity system is the glue that makes the group. It provides the basis, and it allows you to add in CC, support and pullers and a way to build raids.

So EQNext said "forget all that, no aggro, you don't need a healer or tank"

But they offered nothing in return outside of faceroll DPS. All action MMO are faceroll DPS so far. Well at least all the ones I played so far.

  Naqaj

Novice Member

Joined: 7/24/09
Posts: 1681

8/06/13 10:21:39 AM#4
Can't really agree with that. I found plenty of strategy, crowd control, planning and organization in the last action-MMO i played. Granted, I don't find those in every single fight, but that's not rue for the traditional MMOs either. Generally speaking, trinity-based combat was always the most fun for me when the trinity broke down, and in action-MMOs, that is the default state.
  Mackeskimo

Novice Member

Joined: 10/26/10
Posts: 52

Sometimes you can't wait, Sometimes you have to scream your name & just run in.

8/06/13 10:24:08 AM#5
Just running in and start swing does get kind of old... I'm basically hardly ever in danger in action based battle systems. The only thing that you can really do is overwhelm me with lots of mindless enemies.

  SuperDonk

Elite Member

Joined: 6/22/10
Posts: 755

8/06/13 10:26:28 AM#6

The first GW2 clone... barf.

 

I want to be Uncle Owen again.

  FoxyShoxzy

Novice Member

Joined: 3/02/12
Posts: 119

8/06/13 10:28:49 AM#7
Originally posted by Naqaj
Can't really agree with that. I found plenty of strategy, crowd control, planning and organization in the last action-MMO i played. Granted, I don't find those in every single fight, but that's not rue for the traditional MMOs either. Generally speaking, trinity-based combat was always the most fun for me when the trinity broke down, and in action-MMOs, that is the default state.

 

I'm pretty much the opposite. Trinity-based combat is/was always the most fun for me when things run like a well oiled machine. As a tank I loved marking and LOS pulling a dungeon like Magister's Terrace in WoW-BC.

  LizardEgypt

Novice Member

Joined: 2/25/09
Posts: 359

Hmm ?

8/06/13 10:29:17 AM#8

I agree with OP. Action combat can be incredible in the right kind of game, but unfortunately I feel that community/social based role playing games aren't the 'right' kind of game. Even incredibly action packed rpgs like Dota 2, league of legends, are still using auto attack based gameplay, and when you try and make a MOBA that uses action combat, suddenly it's not the same thing. I'm not adverse to the idea of a freeform sandbox that uses action combat (Really loved Darkfall and that's the closest that comes to mind, albeit not actually a sandbox). Problem with games that want quests and progression is that they just aren't fun in an action engine. I actually thoroughly enjoyed my time in FF14 beta and that was the most mundane trinity based combat system I've seen in a while, but the game just felt enjoyable, perhaps it was world nostalgia. 

I don't think the traditional MMO has to die, it just has to take a more serious focus, games like EQNext can easily survive on their own merits but it isn't quite Everquest in nature. I'm 100% going to check it out, but I think they should shift games like EQ2 back over to the ultra-hardcore and focus on games like EQN to fill the next-gen crowd. 

Currently playing - FF14ARR
Previous games - SWG, World of Warcraft, ShadowBane, Warhammer, Age of Conan, Darkfall, Planetside Asheron's Call, Everquest, Everquest 2, Too many.

  Lorgarn

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/07/07
Posts: 347

"Rock's longest, strangest trip, the Grateful Dead"

8/06/13 10:29:33 AM#9

I agree.

 

Although, action combat can co-exist with trinity so don't blame the action combat, blame the developers for taking the decision to remove trinity. Look at TERA for example, fun combat together with the group-dynamic that stems from trinity. Unfortunately TERA lacked in so many other areas that it overall reputation brought it down. That game did some good things and the combat is definitely one of them.

[Contact me directly at:@ItsLorgarn]-[ Welcome to DivinityCraft ]-[Check out: ItsLorgarn]

  Alders

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/28/10
Posts: 1763

I cannot fiddle but I can make a great state of a small city.

8/06/13 10:38:46 AM#10

You don't have to have action combat without roles, CC, or strategy.

The combat style doesn't matter.  The mechanics and system matter.

I would personally love GW2's fluid combat, based on the trinity with lots of classes and roles, and including lots of CC and strategy.  A sort of hybrid,if you will, focused on grouping.

What i don't want is any sort of mechanics that allows me to go make a sandwich or type up a thesis in party chat because I'm out of resources every 5 minutes.

  Shadanwolf

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/13/10
Posts: 1903

8/06/13 10:40:50 AM#11
Originally posted by Margulis
First let me say this isn't just EQNext, but mmo's as a whole.  Any mmo that I've played with an action style combat focus provides that at the cost of something else that I happen to enjoy and really miss - strategy, crowd control, planning and organization.  I really miss grouping up for a dungeon and even on the trash mobs having to meticulously do pulls, CC, etc or else you wipe.  Now it's pretty much just zerg it up and blast through everything, which is really disappointing. 

Well said.

 

I could not agree more.

  Kiyoris

Novice Member

Joined: 7/13/13
Posts: 364

8/06/13 10:42:21 AM#12
Originally posted by Alders

You don't have to have action combat without roles, CC, or strategy.

-How are you going to have pullers if there's no aggro system?

-How are you going to mezz mobs if no one can aggro after a mezz? Just faceroll the mezzed mob?

-How are you going to offer support if you can't assist the tank?

-How are you going to properly heal anyone if you can't focus on a tank? AE heal like all other action MMO?

 

Action MMO = lots of issues

  Aceshighhhh

Novice Member

Joined: 3/20/11
Posts: 187

8/06/13 10:52:39 AM#13

You haven't even played the game or seen the system in context and you're already making these wide assumptions?

There is a HUGE amount of strategic play involved with what they have already showed us. Including 40+ classes and limiting the hotbar to 8 skills allows people to strategically plan their skills and builds depending on the situation they are planning for. Every other traditional MMO just bombards players with literally every skill in their UI and leaves absolutely no strategy or tactics. You just end up cycling through a couple of skills in the same rotation over and over.

Action combat forces players to be more mobile and work together as team rather than just sitting in one space and auto-attacking a mob down to 0 health. There is no skill or strategy involved with traditional combat systems - just lazy and boring mechanics.

  Alders

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/28/10
Posts: 1763

I cannot fiddle but I can make a great state of a small city.

8/06/13 10:59:43 AM#14
Originally posted by Kiyoris
Originally posted by Alders

You don't have to have action combat without roles, CC, or strategy.

-How are you going to have pullers if there's no aggro system?

-How are you going to mezz mobs if no one can aggro after a mezz? Just faceroll the mezzed mob?

-How are you going to offer support if you can't assist the tank?

-How are you going to properly heal anyone if you can't focus on a tank? AE heal like all other action MMO?

 

Action MMO = lots of issues

 

Your definition of what constitutes action combat is the one that has all those issues, not mine.

- you can have action combat with aggro - TERA does this

-you can mezz/sleep in action combat and pull 1 mob at a time - a few do this

-you can support and heal based on direction and ground targeting - almost all do this

 

Why not just state you want to sit in the back and focus target heal a tank?  If that's what you want, then i can see the issue.

 

 

  SysFail

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/01/05
Posts: 377

8/06/13 11:05:47 AM#15

From what was showed at the event, i get the impression that the combat and strategy will be akin to diablo 2.

An example being chaos sanct runs where ranged chars would use slows, freezes, curses etc while the barbarian(lionking in eqn) whirlwinds hp down, before a final boss says hello and everyone goes full out dps...

I hope i'm wrong however, despite d2 being fun 13yrs ago.

  arieste

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/11/04
Posts: 3311

8/06/13 11:10:00 AM#16
Originally posted by Margulis
First let me say this isn't just EQNext, but mmo's as a whole.  Any mmo that I've played with an action style combat focus provides that at the cost of something else that I happen to enjoy and really miss - strategy, crowd control, planning and organization.  I really miss grouping up for a dungeon and even on the trash mobs having to meticulously do pulls, CC, etc or else you wipe.  Now it's pretty much just zerg it up and blast through everything, which is really disappointing. 

Have you played TSW or NWN?  Both those games use action combat, but all those elements - meticulous pulls, cc, planning and oragnization are all still there.   Mindya, unlike GW2 (and EQN), both of those games use the trinity system with the action combat.  

"I’d rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."

- Raph Koster

Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
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  Gravarg

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 8/24/06
Posts: 3221

8/06/13 11:14:45 AM#17
Action Combat = Hold down mouse button 1 while pressing buttons 1-4 on keyboard....that's not very actiony.  Pressing 1-6, shift + 1-6, ctrl + 1-6, alt + 1-6,  at the right time is alot more action.
  Redfeather75

Novice Member

Joined: 7/08/05
Posts: 182

8/06/13 12:00:11 PM#18

I play GW2. You see group synergy, co-ordination, crowd control, damage redirection, clutch interrupts, etc in high level play all the time.
But... the average person is beyond lazy. They can't make the effort.