Trending Games | Guild Wars 2 | World of Warcraft | ArcheAge | Shards

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,905,511 Users Online:0
Games:757  Posts:6,294,752
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Angry Birds Epic Anime Ninja Anime Pirates Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Ascend: Hand of Kul Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Boot Hill Heroes Borderlands 2 Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel Bound by Flame Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Bravada Bravely Default Bravely Second Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Cast & Conquer Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Child of Light Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Cyberpunk 2077 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark Souls 2 Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Dead Island Dead Island 2 Dead Island: Riptide Deco Online Deep Down Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Divinity: Original Sin Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Age: Inquisition Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Fin Soup Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Drakengard 3 Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dungeon of the Endless Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout 4 Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Fearless Fantasy Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy Type-0 HD Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken Uprising Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Heart Forth Alicia Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes & Legends: Conquerors of Kolhar Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Atlan Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings Era Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online Kyn L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Redemption LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Grimrock 2 Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Lichdom: Battlemage Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lords of the Fallen Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance Mass Effect 4 MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms Might & Magic X: Legacy MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Moonrise Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mythborne Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Oort Online Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Overwatch Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Persona V Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pillars of Eternity Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints Pokémon X and Y PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Prodigy Project Blackout Project Gorgon Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Project Zomboid Puzzle Pirates Quest for Infamy Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rail Nation Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of Sierra Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Rebel Galaxy Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Risen 3: Titan Lords Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sacred 3 Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Chance Heroes Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow Realms Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowgate Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian South Park: The Stick of Truth Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Conflict Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Starbound Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Stormthrone Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Styx: Master of Shadows Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online TUG Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Terraria Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Banner Saga The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Epic Might The Hammers End The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing 2 The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Torment: Tides of Numenera Total Domination Transformers Universe Transistor Transverse Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Triad Wars Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Warflare Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune Wasteland 2 WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warriors World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenoblade Chronicles: X Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

EverQuest Next

EverQuest Next 

General Discussion  » For those upset by the lack of trinity have you ever thought of....

3 Pages « 1 2 3 Search
56 posts found
  cybertrucker

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/08/07
Posts: 1135

Freeloading mooches are the scourge of the gaming community.

8/04/13 8:51:06 AM#41

I hope there is a better AI in this game than am h we have seen in the past. Lets hope story bricks works like its advertised to.

as for lack of trinity or roles... We still really are not sure of this.. Why this debate keeps happening  I don't know. I've seen  the interviews over at eqhammer, and devs said absolutely you ca build your character towards different rolls, or be a truist class. That some classes were also geared more to certain roles.

so I am going to take this with the whole lets wait and see more attitude. Instead of latching onto rumors and non proven arguments.

  SavageHorizon

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/14/13
Posts: 1578

8/04/13 8:56:10 AM#42
Originally posted by Riposte.This
The part that sucks the most is the abilities are like GW2, that's a huge issue. Swapping attacks with what weapons you carry is just not something I think is cool or innovative. I think it actually fails quite hard.

Yeah i would have liked the ArcheAge system of of using any weapon and wearing any armour plus a combination of 120 class choices.

Info http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/572/view/forums/post/5805359#5805359

Coolermaster Cosmos II Case
Corsair AX1200W Modular PSU
Intel Core i7 3970X OC 4.50GHz
Asus P9X79 PRO Intel X7
16GB (4x4GB) DDR3 PC3-1866MHz
840 Series 250GB SSDs
Seagate Barracuda 2TB HDDs
EVGA SuperClocked GTX TITAN 6GB GDDR5 SLi

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0i88t0Kacs

  Sengi

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/01/09
Posts: 344

8/04/13 11:18:23 AM#43
 

This is true, smart AI is the death of the holy trinity, because trinity means exploiting a weak AI. I would even call it bug-using.

Just imagine when does tanking ever work in PVP? Only when the opponent doesn't know what he's doing. 
Who would be your target priority the guy in heavy amour that is insulting you mother nonstop but does not really harm you or the guy in the back who is roasting you with fireballs.

I also find it ridiculous to picture a armored knight jumping up and down and shouting "Hey dragon, look at me! You suck!". 


Maybe it could be designed in a way that the orcs fall for the tanking trick the first time, but then they adapt and the players need to come up with something else. There could be differed levels of AI, a giant amoeba would always fall for the same old trick.
 
I would change the tanking into a bodyguard mechanic, in such a way that a fighter could ward of hits from one or two other characters that are right next o him.

 
  Doogiehowser

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/14/12
Posts: 1954

8/04/13 11:19:22 AM#44
Read the mmorpg.com coverage of EQNEXT and they have mentioned clearly that there is going to be 'trinity' in game.

"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell

"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney

  Montaronx

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/10/05
Posts: 253

8/04/13 11:28:13 AM#45

if tanking becomes obsolete in this game, why even wear armor and or a shield as a warrior? it makes no sense what so ever . just dps it down as quick as you can and move to the next mob.

 

I think SOE still have some tricks up their sleeves they will reveal soon

 

 

  NobleNerd

Elite Member

Joined: 2/08/08
Posts: 527

Try not!Do or do notThere is no try.

8/04/13 11:43:22 AM#46
Originally posted by Mightyking
Originally posted by Azoth

Better AI doesn't mean that role would not work. You won't see much better than from the other games, they won't just auto target the one guy that is healing, it will be an agro game like all the rest. We might see improved behavior, calling for help and running when getting low on health (which isn't new) but I am pretty sure it won't be much more than that.

It's not like we can give npc the brain capacity of humans. It all have to be scripted. Strict role and challenging mobs is a great way to improve community and team play. If you can do it all and faceroll thru the content it will just be another solo game that most people will quit after a month.

Where exactly have you seen that this so-called "improved AI" has improved the community and team play? My experience tells me exactly the opposite.

Guild wars 2 has pretty much advertised their game as having no trinity. World content sees an every man for themselves mentality: try to hit the boss, hope you stay alive.

Rift having multi classes where anyone can pretty much play anything, sees world content zerg fests. Tank-healer concept is usually not present because you just join public groups, and you'd be lucky to find a tank and healer taking responsibility for such roles. World content sees again everyone for themselves.

Neither of these two games, at least in my opinion, has improved community and team play. Ergo, those who like to play support roles, tanking, healing, CC, are looked upon when mechanics just require dps.

For one that has played Rift on and off since beta I can say that even in world events there are tank and especially healing roles being used. It is a HUGE zerg-fest, but if no one took on the healing roles (especially) during the events it would make for a tough fight on the bigger bosses.

 

I am all for "smarter" AI and even unpredictable AI. The problem with raids and most pve in general in MMOs is it gets to be the same thing over and over. When you fight a boss you know that at certain points in the fight they are going to use a certain spell or ability. Towards the end of my WoW days I went to mostly PvP fighting, because at least it wasn't the same fights over and over.

NobleNerdom
Power to the player!

  Raass

Novice Member

Joined: 7/17/12
Posts: 21

8/04/13 11:57:13 AM#47
I'll be playing this game for sure, love everything I have seen so far.
  thinlizzy

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/04/13
Posts: 69

8/04/13 12:10:57 PM#48
Originally posted by Sengi
 

This is true, smart AI is the death of the holy trinity, because trinity means exploiting a weak AI. I would even call it bug-using.

Just imagine when does tanking ever work in PVP? Only when the opponent doesn't know what he's doing. 
Who would be your target priority the guy in heavy amour that is insulting you mother nonstop but does not really harm you or the guy in the back who is roasting you with fireballs.

I also find it ridiculous to picture a armored knight jumping up and down and shouting "Hey dragon, look at me! You suck!". 


Maybe it could be designed in a way that the orcs fall for the tanking trick the first time, but then they adapt and the players need to come up with something else. There could be differed levels of AI, a giant amoeba would always fall for the same old trick.
 
I would change the tanking into a bodyguard mechanic, in such a way that a fighter could ward of hits from one or two other characters that are right next o him.

 

Tanking in Warhammer online  works perfectly in PvP because the class designers had a brain.

Its the failed RAID based trinity that does not stack up to an intelligent opponent.

Dont diss the trinity because EQ WoW and games like it gave tanks agro generation and taunt as a way to hold brainless mobs

Give the tanks proper tools to do the job and even a smart player has to confront the tank.

DO it right and tanks DONT need to be DPS monsters and DONT need to be able to charge (how the %$#@ did anyone think the heaviest armored unit should be the fastest)

  Goldmund

Novice Member

Joined: 6/03/09
Posts: 8

8/04/13 12:23:33 PM#49
Originally posted by Sengi
 

Just imagine when does tanking ever work in PVP? Only when the opponent doesn't know what he's doing. 

 

I see people throwing this argument around a lot.  In EQ2 pvp though, tanking is a viable role because taunts actually do force your enemy to target you.  You can't lock their target onto you permanently unless your enemy is really careless and not paying attention, but when timed well, it's quite effective and creates much more interesting fights, in my opinion.

  bansan

Novice Member

Joined: 5/20/10
Posts: 371

8/04/13 1:12:11 PM#50

Do a little critical thinking.  When the OP says "smart" AI, he's not talking about some super duper coding to will make mobs act like real animals.

It has been done, and is as simple as making a mob not stupid enough stand there and attack a guy that hits him for 1 damage, while 9 other guys are putting holes in him with laser beams.  You've all seen it before, and that not so smart AI already would blow the trinity out of the water.  Smart AI is not the problem.

The problem is that you can't even have not so smart AI with the trinity.  If you want the trinity, it is not possible to have smart AI.

  Sengi

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/01/09
Posts: 344

8/04/13 2:07:51 PM#51
Originally posted by thinlizzy
Originally posted by Sengi
 

This is true, smart AI is the death of the holy trinity, because trinity means exploiting a weak AI. I would even call it bug-using.

Just imagine when does tanking ever work in PVP? Only when the opponent doesn't know what he's doing. 
Who would be your target priority the guy in heavy amour that is insulting you mother nonstop but does not really harm you or the guy in the back who is roasting you with fireballs.

I also find it ridiculous to picture a armored knight jumping up and down and shouting "Hey dragon, look at me! You suck!". 


Maybe it could be designed in a way that the orcs fall for the tanking trick the first time, but then they adapt and the players need to come up with something else. There could be differed levels of AI, a giant amoeba would always fall for the same old trick.
 
I would change the tanking into a bodyguard mechanic, in such a way that a fighter could ward of hits from one or two other characters that are right next o him.

 

Tanking in Warhammer online  works perfectly in PvP because the class designers had a brain.

Its the failed RAID based trinity that does not stack up to an intelligent opponent.

Dont diss the trinity because EQ WoW and games like it gave tanks agro generation and taunt as a way to hold brainless mobs

Give the tanks proper tools to do the job and even a smart player has to confront the tank.

DO it right and tanks DONT need to be DPS monsters and DONT need to be able to charge (how the %$#@ did anyone think the heaviest armored unit should be the fastest)

 
Ok, the trinity in WoW was the one I was talking about. I haven't played Warhammer Online. What did It do differently. How can tanking work in PvP? Does the tank have a lot of CC? But someone who provides CC is not really a tank in my opinion. 
 
Aren't taunts the central point of the whole trinity? If the tank can't hold aggro, the whole thing breaks down.  
 
  thinlizzy

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/04/13
Posts: 69

8/05/13 3:56:11 AM#52
Originally posted by Sengi
 
 
Ok, the trinity in WoW was the one I was talking about. I haven't played Warhammer Online. What did It do differently. How can tanking work in PvP? Does the tank have a lot of CC? But someone who provides CC is not really a tank in my opinion. 
 
Aren't taunts the central point of the whole trinity? If the tank can't hold aggro, the whole thing breaks down.  
 

 

 

First let me say Warhammer online had many faults.

However their way of handling tanks in PvP is not one of them

Warhammer had taunts, they made a target vulnerable to your DPS (take 30% damage from you) untull they had hit you 3+ times.

Not the worlds greatest solution but a good one given the game

The roll of a tank in warhammer PvP is front line damage taker, to do that they are WAY harder to kill than any other toon

They radiate buffs to people near them (different ways for the 6 different tanking classes)

They can guard ONE friendly target  soaking up 50% of  their incoming damage

They can CC via the best snares of all classes and a variety of knockdowns and punts.

THEY CANT CHARGE and cant move around the battlefield like balistic missiles like so many other bad games do.

btw you have player collision in warhammer so a tank wall can BLOCK people from passing through a door over a bridge or any other tight space.

 

O and warhammer had directional defences.,.. not some generic defence value

you get hit in the back...YOU CANT BLOCK OR PARRY...but guess what... that heavy plate still helped

Stab that caster in the back and watch it drop like a stone...unless OMG its guarded by a TANK.. who then smacks you down to the ground and slows you  and that same casters burns you into ash

 

As a tank in WAR you FEEL like a TANK and you get to save and protect you squishy DPS but your DPS is woefull

There was NOTHING wrong with the idea of specialist rolls in MMOs.

The push like GW2 to bland... we all DPS a bit heal a bit tank a bit was (for me) a disaster.

HOWEVER

the trinity should have been expanded to a pentaverate or more NOT removed.

BRING BACK buffing classes, dedicates caster CC classes (oooo enchanter i miss you) and the  NEED for hybrids that even Wow had before molten BORE.

 

P.S. making players able to lvl one toon that can be all things....KILLS THE DESIRE TO EVER PLAY THE GAME ON ANOTHER TOON

 

  Burrick

Novice Member

Joined: 7/03/09
Posts: 9

8/05/13 4:21:41 AM#53

Well my last post got me banned for trolling, not really sure why, yes my post was totally negative but that is my opinion to this game with the info I have seen so far.

 

Why are developers so insistent that all action, no brain, no tactic mmo's are the way forward?

I guess it is because the majority of players these days want food parcels delivered to there grubby doorways on the streets rather than going out, making some effort to receive rewards.

 

In EQ a great community was built because we had time to build it, we met up, made a group, decided what camp we were going to and then had time between pulls, even during pulls/fights to chat.

These days it's get randomly invited to a group, no chat, zerg, zerg more zerg and party disbands.

 

Just like sports in schools these days, no competition, everyone is a winner, everyone gets rewarded, even with the least effort with no incentive to improve.

 

EQ = good players could take on the throne room in CB, those that are a little less skilled could take on CB entrance and start moving into the zone as t hey gained strength, experience, confidence for example.

 

One mistake could lead to death, these days how does anyone die in an mmo? AFK possibly?

  Anthur

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/05/10
Posts: 635

8/05/13 4:32:32 AM#54
Originally posted by Xarko
Im not sure this has been answered anywhere,but .. for GW2 to work without trinity , all classes needed a special skill slot for a self heal ability. In EQN there is no such thing,  how does one stay alive in longer fights ?

Potions ? No, i don't know, i am just kidding, sorry. ;)

This whole discussion really is much too early. We don't have enough facts yet to make any reasonable assumptions how EQN combat will work.

  Rydeson

Elite Member

Joined: 3/05/07
Posts: 3468

8/05/13 5:09:25 AM#55

Let me see if I can communicate this right..

     Combat today in most games is calculated on dps and damage mitigation.. To win the fight, you must dish it out, more then you can take..  Simple math right?  DPS comes in two forms being direct damage (DD), or damage over time (DoT).. Now as for mitigation, that will come in more forms.. The standard form has always been based on armor value, shields and a variety of combat moves such as dodge and block..  Since the beginning of time it has always been that plate armor is better then cloth armor, therefor your best mitigation is someone that can wear plate..  But there were those uncommon classes like a monk that had high enough dodge and block ratings to make up the difference.. However, in general if you wore cloth, you didn't live long if you got the attention of the mob, hence Squishies..  To protect the squishies something had to be done, and the best two forms of controlling a mob attacking your weaker classes was agro management and rooting the mobs.. 

     Back in the day of EQ, rooting and snaring was a viable method of keeping mobs off "non" plate class wearing toons.. This lead kiting as a popular form of killing..  Druids, Wizzies, Bards and Necro's all kited.. If you didn't kite then someone had to play as meat shield, and that was normally someone able to draw attention with taunting or use skills that acted as taunts.. Here we go with the trinity type of tank & healer formula..  Now if we remove the taunting mechanic, that leaves you with two options..1) control the mobs movement, OR 2) FFA mob chaos.. We all know you can not have mobs roaming free within your group of squishies, especially smart ones..  The way I see it.. Everyone has to have some ability to control a mobs movement, or raise the armor value of squishies so they can take a beating like the plate classes can.. (but doesn't that void the whole purpose of having different armors?).. Or you put taunt back in the game.. 

     IN conclusion you either:

  1. Meat shields taunt the damn mobs
  2. Control the movement of  the damn mobs
  3. Make damage mitigation equal for everyone..
I"m ok with 1 and 2, but not a fan of 3.. If I missed something, please let me know..
  Zeroxin

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/21/06
Posts: 2518

My words are not here to sway you,they are here to make you understand.

8/05/13 6:15:16 AM#56
Originally posted by Daaken

.......The Trinity becomes pointless when you introduce the first smart AI system in the history of the genre?

 

They never said their getting rid of roles, the panel even explicitly said that if you enjoy playing a certain way, you can continue to play that way and even be rewarded just the same as anyone else.  This isn't GW2, where you have dumb AI, the mobs will target intelligently and a Trinity based system makes no sense in the grand scheme of a dynamic and smart world.  Story Bricks will revolutionize the genre because of this.

Sorry to sound like I'm attacking you but, you sound like you're in dreamland. GW1 had some of the best Ai in a game to date, if you played that and were excited for GW2 you'd probably be like "Yea, GW1 had badass Ai, I bet GW2 would too!" but look how that turned out. Best not to get your hopes up until they show us some dungeon gameplay or you play it yourself.

This is not a game.

3 Pages « 1 2 3 Search