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EverQuest Next

EverQuest Next 

General Discussion  » "I would not call this game a hardcore MMO." - per Terry Michaels

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118 posts found
  General-Zod

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 550

Kneel.

8/03/13 12:54:15 PM#41
Originally posted by Fratman
Originally posted by NagelRitter

Of course it won't be hardcore. Hardcore implies Darkfall or EVE or something. I don't want that, either.

Originally posted by Fratman
It's going to be on the PS4, so we already knew it can't be hardcore. Console and hardcore mmo don't even belong in the same sentence.

Have you played any of the Souls games?

Are they mmos? No, I haven't.

The souls are really more of an MO-RPG...

and its not really hardcore but its a good start.

  tank017

Novice Member

Joined: 7/09/06
Posts: 2206

8/03/13 12:55:18 PM#42
Originally posted by Drakephire
Originally posted by Biskop

Yeah, shame on SOE for wanting a commercially viable product! After all, they do have a responsibility to provide "hardcore" nolifers with the game of their dreams.

You know, a game can be "hardcore" (meaning complex, difficult, and rewarding time investment) and yet accesible. For example, the core game mechanics and basic features can be simple and intuitive while high-end content is hard and demanding. A player can then chose which level of difficulty he/she wants to engage.

But I guess some people still think "hardcore" = long grind + harsh death penalties + tedious mechanics that anyone with a life and a job will shun, and if a game does not abide by those 1999 design standards it is to be considered a kid's game and a WoW clone.

 

Agreed with you mate.

The hardcore players I'm reading here seem to want a sugar daddy to pony up 50-100 million dollars to make a beautiful game that only they and a few thousand of their hardcore buddies can play.

It is false to conflate 'hardcore' with difficulty...which the hardcore crowd loves to do. One can make a difficult, challenging game that is also accessible and dare I say casual friendly. 

can you provide proof on those numbers?

  NagelRitter

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/18/13
Posts: 613

8/03/13 12:58:33 PM#43

I'm just trying to deal with the strange idea that all action console games are easy (there are very few console MMO's out there so that point is rather moot anyway) and that you can't make a challenging game with action combat (didn't everyone whine about GW2 for forever and it got nerfed?). It's some stupid idea that comes from elitism. Bash the game all you want, but use arguments that make any shred of sense and are not pure ignorance. If you think Souls games are easy I want to see your Platinum trophy.

Originally posted by Drakephire

Agreed with you mate.

The hardcore players I'm reading here seem to want a sugar daddy to pony up 50-100 million dollars to make a beautiful game that only they and a few thousand of their hardcore buddies can play.

It is false to conflate 'hardcore' with difficulty...which the hardcore crowd loves to do. One can make a difficult, challenging game that is also accessible and dare I say casual friendly. 

Indeed. My impression with EQN is when they say it's not hardcore, they mean it won't be a long grind forever and ever, and it probably won't be FFA PvP is what I would guess.

They didn't really choose the best combat elements to demonstrate the game's difficulty, but it doesn't mean it won't exist. Tbh, it looked like too early to tell with those rats standing still, does the game even have AI yet?

 

Favorite MMO: Vanilla WoW
Currently playing: GW2, EVE
Excited for: Wildstar, maybe?

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17016

8/03/13 1:02:38 PM#44
Originally posted by CalmOceans

"I would not call this game a hardcore MMO. We want something that is accessible to a larger number of people"

 

They should have said they were making a children's MMO right off the bat.

 

lol, I've said this from the beginning; they want/need to cater to as large a group as possible. For some reason players made up their own little story.

Oh, I'm sure there is going to be a lot to this game but some players like to hone in on specific words that these devs say and then imbut them with their own definitions/meaning.

Just wait until the pvp info starts rolling in.

  Fratman

Novice Member

Joined: 6/04/05
Posts: 363

8/03/13 1:04:03 PM#45
Originally posted by Drakynn
Originally posted by Fratman
Originally posted by NagelRitter

Of course it won't be hardcore. Hardcore implies Darkfall or EVE or something. I don't want that, either.

Originally posted by Fratman
It's going to be on the PS4, so we already knew it can't be hardcore. Console and hardcore mmo don't even belong in the same sentence.

Have you played any of the Souls games?

Are they mmos? No, I haven't.

They are not MMOS but they are more hardcore than any MMO out there difficulty wise and very popular.

Fascinating. But I specifically said hardcore mmos and consoles don't go together.

  diabel

Novice Member

Joined: 9/28/04
Posts: 26

whereMAbitchsAT?

8/03/13 1:09:52 PM#46
  1. The reason for creating a MMORPG is profit and not kittens and rainbows.
  2. SOE presented a flashy tech demo with no real AI. No where was it mentioned that the NPC's will stand still and all be killed with one hit.
  3. Lack of actual confirmed facts is making people jump to their own conclusions. A pointless cycle.
  NagelRitter

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/18/13
Posts: 613

8/03/13 1:11:49 PM#47
Originally posted by Fratman

Fascinating. But I specifically said hardcore mmos and consoles don't go together.

And you're an authority on this because...?

Favorite MMO: Vanilla WoW
Currently playing: GW2, EVE
Excited for: Wildstar, maybe?

  seacow1g

Novice Member

Joined: 7/27/13
Posts: 260

8/03/13 1:19:09 PM#48
Originally posted by Margulis

Here is the link to the interview where he says this:

http://www.usgamer.net/articles/everquest-nexts-terry-michaels-you-wont-get-snake-skins-coming-from-gnolls-

Ok well I've officially lost all interest in this game. Easiness is the single biggest deal breaker for me. It's my opinion that casualness is what destroyed the MMO genre and any game that doesn't seek to remedy this will not be getting any of my money. I'm not arguing that a game needs to involve huge grinds or tedious activities in order to be good, but if the gameplay itself is not harsh and punishing of mistakes then rewards just feel meaningless. Casual and Hardmode versions of the same content does not remedy this either as it ruins immersion and cheapens the sense of reward for the players that do play the hardmode content. All I want is a AAA mmo for hardcore players but I guess that's too tall of an order.

  General-Zod

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 550

Kneel.

8/03/13 1:19:27 PM#49
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by CalmOceans

"I would not call this game a hardcore MMO. We want something that is accessible to a larger number of people"

 

They should have said they were making a children's MMO right off the bat.

 

lol, I've said this from the beginning; they want/need to cater to as large a group as possible. For some reason players made up their own little story.

Oh, I'm sure there is going to be a lot to this game but some players like to hone in on specific words that these devs say and then imbut them with their own definitions/meaning.

Just wait until the pvp info starts rolling in.

Come on Sovrath...

Granted you were right from the start, however the whole "wait until the pvp info comes in" is a cop out.

We both know all PvP looks good on paper .. hence GW2

 

  tank017

Novice Member

Joined: 7/09/06
Posts: 2206

8/03/13 1:27:31 PM#50
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by CalmOceans

"I would not call this game a hardcore MMO. We want something that is accessible to a larger number of people"

 

They should have said they were making a children's MMO right off the bat.

 

lol, I've said this from the beginning; they want/need to cater to as large a group as possible. For some reason players made up their own little story.

Oh, I'm sure there is going to be a lot to this game but some players like to hone in on specific words that these devs say and then imbut them with their own definitions/meaning.

Just wait until the pvp info starts rolling in.

Or its people who hope that for once,a company will release something truly different and more their style.Then having that hope continuously stomped on because companies keep catering to the population of lemmings introduced by WoW.

  azarhal

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/06/09
Posts: 537

8/03/13 1:28:59 PM#51

So how many people have actually read the "interview"? Because the title is leaving quite a bit of context.

"Well, risk and reward is what MMOs are all about. I would not call this game a hardcore MMO. We want something that is accessible to a larger number of people but we want to make sure it's balanced with good gameplay and interesting things that will keep people interested." 

  DSWBeef

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/11/09
Posts: 759

8/03/13 1:30:12 PM#52
Originally posted by Biskop

Yeah, shame on SOE for wanting a commercially viable product! After all, they do have a responsibility to provide "hardcore" nolifers with the game of their dreams.

You know, a game can be "hardcore" (meaning complex, difficult, and rewarding time investment) and yet accesible. For example, the core game mechanics and basic features can be simple and intuitive while high-end content is hard and demanding. A player can then chose which level of difficulty he/she wants to engage.

But I guess some people still think "hardcore" = long grind + harsh death penalties + tedious mechanics that anyone with a life and a job will shun, and if a game does not abide by those 1999 design standards it is to be considered a kid's game and a WoW clone.

 

QFT. 10+. I use to be in a Server First guild back during BC and Early WOTLK. We raided 7 hours a day for nearly 5-6 days. That is what most people define as hardcore. And I cant do it anymore, its not fun to smash your head against something over and over again. God forbid they make a game where someone can come in and play for a couple hours and still feel like they accomplished something. IM extremely looking forward to EQN as it has everything ive been asking for.

Playing: Archeage Alpha, War Thunder, World of Tanks
Waiting on: Archeage, Wild Star, Everquest Next and The Black Desert

  Raven

Novice Member

Joined: 5/20/06
Posts: 1985

"Only the dead have seen the end of war" Plato

8/03/13 1:33:32 PM#53
Originally posted by tank017
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by CalmOceans

"I would not call this game a hardcore MMO. We want something that is accessible to a larger number of people"

 

They should have said they were making a children's MMO right off the bat.

 

lol, I've said this from the beginning; they want/need to cater to as large a group as possible. For some reason players made up their own little story.

Oh, I'm sure there is going to be a lot to this game but some players like to hone in on specific words that these devs say and then imbut them with their own definitions/meaning.

Just wait until the pvp info starts rolling in.

Or its people who hope that for once,a company will release something truly different and more their style.Then having that hope continuously stomped on because companies keep catering to the population of lemmings introduced by WoW.

 

What if, I mean this could blow your mind, but imagine if there were other people, that aren't you, that actually want to play EQN as they announced it? I mean its crazy right! Haaa forget it they must be "lemmings".

  Fratman

Novice Member

Joined: 6/04/05
Posts: 363

8/03/13 1:39:02 PM#54
Originally posted by DSWBeef
Originally posted by Biskop

 

QFT. 10+. I use to be in a Server First guild back during BC and Early WOTLK. We raided 7 hours a day for nearly 5-6 days. That is what most people define as hardcore. And I cant do it anymore, its not fun to smash your head against something over and over again. God forbid they make a game where someone can come in and play for a couple hours and still feel like they accomplished something. IM extremely looking forward to EQN as it has everything ive been asking for.

There are plenty of mmos out right now that try and cater to people like you who claim to be so busy they can only play for 1 or 2 hours every few days. You're probably not playing any of them because they all suck.

 

  DSWBeef

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/11/09
Posts: 759

8/03/13 1:41:10 PM#55
Originally posted by Fratman
Originally posted by DSWBeef
Originally posted by Biskop

 

QFT. 10+. I use to be in a Server First guild back during BC and Early WOTLK. We raided 7 hours a day for nearly 5-6 days. That is what most people define as hardcore. And I cant do it anymore, its not fun to smash your head against something over and over again. God forbid they make a game where someone can come in and play for a couple hours and still feel like they accomplished something. IM extremely looking forward to EQN as it has everything ive been asking for.

There are plenty of mmos out right now that try and cater to people like you who claim to be so busy they can only play for 1 or 2 hours every few days. You're probably not playing any of them because they all suck.

 

World of tanks, defiance, rift, war thunder, guild wars 2. If you want hardcore go play eve or darkfall.

Playing: Archeage Alpha, War Thunder, World of Tanks
Waiting on: Archeage, Wild Star, Everquest Next and The Black Desert

  Raven

Novice Member

Joined: 5/20/06
Posts: 1985

"Only the dead have seen the end of war" Plato

8/03/13 1:41:31 PM#56
Originally posted by Fratman
Originally posted by DSWBeef
Originally posted by Biskop

 

QFT. 10+. I use to be in a Server First guild back during BC and Early WOTLK. We raided 7 hours a day for nearly 5-6 days. That is what most people define as hardcore. And I cant do it anymore, its not fun to smash your head against something over and over again. God forbid they make a game where someone can come in and play for a couple hours and still feel like they accomplished something. IM extremely looking forward to EQN as it has everything ive been asking for.

There are plenty of mmos out right now that try and cater to people like you who claim to be so busy they can only play for 1 or 2 hours every few days. You're probably not playing any of them because they all suck.

 

There are plenty of hardcore games out there for you, Darkfall Unholy Wars, EVE Online just to name two, why arent you playing them? Those games are pretty hardcore you dont need any more.

 

* I really can enjoy both types of games it just annoys me that some entitled people think the world owes them something somehow 

  DSWBeef

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/11/09
Posts: 759

8/03/13 1:44:53 PM#57
Originally posted by seacow1g
Originally posted by DSWBeef
Originally posted by Biskop

Yeah, shame on SOE for wanting a commercially viable product! After all, they do have a responsibility to provide "hardcore" nolifers with the game of their dreams.

You know, a game can be "hardcore" (meaning complex, difficult, and rewarding time investment) and yet accesible. For example, the core game mechanics and basic features can be simple and intuitive while high-end content is hard and demanding. A player can then chose which level of difficulty he/she wants to engage.

But I guess some people still think "hardcore" = long grind + harsh death penalties + tedious mechanics that anyone with a life and a job will shun, and if a game does not abide by those 1999 design standards it is to be considered a kid's game and a WoW clone.

 

QFT. 10+. I use to be in a Server First guild back during BC and Early WOTLK. We raided 7 hours a day for nearly 5-6 days. That is what most people define as hardcore. And I cant do it anymore, its not fun to smash your head against something over and over again. God forbid they make a game where someone can come in and play for a couple hours and still feel like they accomplished something. IM extremely looking forward to EQN as it has everything ive been asking for.

Thanks for being one of the aforementioned millions of lemmings that WoW brought into the MMO genre. You think YOU have it hard? Pretty much every MMO out there is super easy. Yes WoW has hardmode raids that require a significant time commitment to beat but what about the rest of the game? It's a faceroll. Everyone gets to see everything and gets to try everything even if they play for like an hour a day 2-3 times a week. They may not beat the hardmode raids but they get to do pretty much everything else the game has to offer. Designing the game for everyone to see everything was one of the worst decisions WoW made and that's when it went too far imo. Fun, easy to understand with an interface that works well and makes sense can still go in a hard game (and should!).

I repeat.....you think YOU have it hard? Every AAA MMO out there for the past 7-8 years is being made for people like you. Where's the love for the hardcore crowd? You know, the kind of people that this genre was BUILT on? (And i'm not saying the only hardcore players are old-school, there's younger hardcore players too but i'm just talking about a "type").

Im sorry that I was only 7 when EQ and UO were huge. Yes Wow was my first mmo. That doesnt make me a "lemming" or a bad person. Its your opinion that raiding hard modes isnt hard. While In my opinion it is. And you hardcore gamers had plenty of chanced. Mortal online, Darkfall, and eve. Two of which are flourishing. And plese dont think I need an mmo to be easy. I never said that. YOu are assuming things. I believe someone who plays only a few hours a day should be able to achieve something and feel accomplished just as someone who no lifes into a game. And please dont insult me, makes you look like an ass.

 

This happens with every mmo thats announced. Eve, MO, and DF had all the "Carebears" in an uproar while Aion, WAR, TSW, RIFT, ect ect. Had all the No lifers in a uproar. Honestly hes stating a opinion. In HIS opinion its no hardcore. What does hardcore mean for him? We dont know. SO please atleast try the game (which all of you are going to anyways) before spouting such garbage.

Playing: Archeage Alpha, War Thunder, World of Tanks
Waiting on: Archeage, Wild Star, Everquest Next and The Black Desert

  seacow1g

Novice Member

Joined: 7/27/13
Posts: 260

8/03/13 1:46:39 PM#58
Originally posted by DSWBeef
 

World of tanks, defiance, rift, war thunder, guild wars 2. If you want hardcore go play eve or darkfall.

 

Eve is Sci-fi and spaceships and I'm not into that and Darkfall is a buggy mess and a farcry from AAA. How about you name a hardcore MMO that has knights and magic and castles and stuff that is also polished?

 

And I actually said that hardmode WoW raids are actually quite hard. I know cause in up through Cata i was in a server first guild too. But the rest of the game is easy and let me tell you when WoTLK hit my raiding struggles felt worthless because everyone saw that content I raided in and whenever a new raid was released an easymode dungeon was also released that brought people up to speed and made the previous raid obsolete. If you like that then I don't like you. I don't think you are a bad person but nevertheless you share the opinions of millions of players that ruin the MMO genre not only for the hardcore players but unknowingly even for themselves. I was a farcry from hardcore in Vanilla WoW yet that period was the most fun I ever had in that game... Funny how the easier they made them overall game the worse my experience got (despite being able to accomplish more with less time and effort)

  tank017

Novice Member

Joined: 7/09/06
Posts: 2206

8/03/13 1:47:25 PM#59
Originally posted by Raven
Originally posted by tank017
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by CalmOceans

"I would not call this game a hardcore MMO. We want something that is accessible to a larger number of people"

 

They should have said they were making a children's MMO right off the bat.

 

lol, I've said this from the beginning; they want/need to cater to as large a group as possible. For some reason players made up their own little story.

Oh, I'm sure there is going to be a lot to this game but some players like to hone in on specific words that these devs say and then imbut them with their own definitions/meaning.

Just wait until the pvp info starts rolling in.

Or its people who hope that for once,a company will release something truly different and more their style.Then having that hope continuously stomped on because companies keep catering to the population of lemmings introduced by WoW.

 

What if, I mean this could blow your mind, but imagine if there were other people, that aren't you, that actually want to play EQN as they announced it? I mean its crazy right! Haaa forget it they must be "lemmings".

lemmings are people too.

 

Poor Jorge,someone get him a burrito..

 

As I said those "other people" as you state,have been catered to for over a decade.People want something different now.

 

stop being a spoiled brat and share.

  DSWBeef

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/11/09
Posts: 759

8/03/13 1:49:06 PM#60
Originally posted by seacow1g
Originally posted by DSWBeef
 

World of tanks, defiance, rift, war thunder, guild wars 2. If you want hardcore go play eve or darkfall.

 

Eve is Sci-fi and spaceships and I'm not into that and Darkfall is a buggy mess and a farcry from AAA. How about you name a hardcore MMO that has knights and magic and castles and stuff that is also polished?

Im my opinion Darkfall is polished. Dont blame me because devs dont make games up to your standards. Go to school make a studio and create a game yourself.

Playing: Archeage Alpha, War Thunder, World of Tanks
Waiting on: Archeage, Wild Star, Everquest Next and The Black Desert

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