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EverQuest Next

EverQuest Next 

General Discussion  » One way to tell EQN is serious about being a sandbox

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57 posts found
  Dudehog

Novice Member

Joined: 1/01/12
Posts: 119

 
OP  8/01/13 11:07:16 AM#1

If there aren't any completely non-combat classes announced, then you can be sure this is just going to be some sort of dumbed down sandpark game and not a real sandbox. Even though I wouldn't play a non-combat class, I think this is the most important reveal they can do tomorrow because it will be very telling about the type of game EQN will end up becoming.

 

  NagelRitter

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/18/13
Posts: 613

8/01/13 11:17:37 AM#2

Darkfall is not a sandbox now?

A game doesn't have to mimic SWG to be a sandbox, you know. I hate the idea of non-combat classes because it means I can't be a combat character and craft/do other stuff at the same time.

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  Waterlily

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/26/08
Posts: 2890

8/01/13 11:19:03 AM#3

Definition 25098250285028520582058111511515 of Sandbox.

No one cares what a sandbox is anymore at this point.

  Tygranir

Novice Member

Joined: 6/24/13
Posts: 765

8/01/13 11:21:43 AM#4

All sandbox means is player driven content. Sandbox features are simply player generated content. A sandbox game is a game that is actually altered by player actions.

 

That really is the meat of it.

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  Krimzin

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/03/04
Posts: 513

8/01/13 11:22:56 AM#5
Guess we will see tomorrow.

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  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3460

8/01/13 11:25:03 AM#6
What if the class system let you build your own class, skills and spells? Would that not be sandbox even if there was no non-combat classes? Sandbox is about the ability to build, create and shape your class, world, story and other areas of the game. Some or all is how much of the game is sandbox. Even SWG was not a pure sandbox game. 
  BadSpock

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/21/04
Posts: 7733

Logic be damned!

8/01/13 11:26:46 AM#7

Does this mean FFXIV:ARR is a sandbox?

Because they have 8 combat classes, 9 combat jobs, 8 crafting classes, and 3 gathering classes?

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  Lorgarn

Elite Member

Joined: 7/07/07
Posts: 338

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8/01/13 11:26:47 AM#8

Good thread, very informative and interesting.

 

+1

 

Also, the definition of sandbox is my definition of sandbox. What is actually is doesn't matter to you since it's not the same as yours.

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  Dudehog

Novice Member

Joined: 1/01/12
Posts: 119

 
OP  8/01/13 11:27:57 AM#9
Originally posted by NagelRitter

Darkfall is not a sandbox now?

 

Not now and never was. Next question.

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10633

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

8/01/13 11:31:50 AM#10

If I can't dig a 1 meter cube out of the dirt, it's not a sandbox.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  Dudehog

Novice Member

Joined: 1/01/12
Posts: 119

 
OP  8/01/13 11:34:27 AM#11
Originally posted by BadSpock

Does this mean FFXIV:ARR is a sandbox?

Because they have 8 combat classes, 9 combat jobs, 8 crafting classes, and 3 gathering classes?

I see this is a difficult concept for some to comprehend. Let me make it simple so even you can understand.

 A sandbox has to have crafting, correct? My point is that if a game is going to have crafting, but it doesn't have fully fleshed out crafting classes in the same way it has for combat classes, then it's very likely it's going to be a weak sandbox experience. I'm not saying EQN won't be a sandbox without non-combat classes. I'm saying it will probably be a lame sandbox.

[mod edit]

  Jean-Luc_Picard

Elite Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2766

There... are... four... lights!

8/01/13 11:35:11 AM#12

I would tend to agree that being able to make e.g. a 100% crafter character is an asset for a game that labels itself as "sandbox". Having to be a "warrior", "priest" or "mage" just to be a blacksmith isn't very "sandboxy". I'd love to create a blacksmith who is really just... a blacksmith, like it was possible in UO.

But like all other factors, it's neither defining nor necessary. Fact is thought that a true sandbox game should not be only about bashing things with swords. Otherwise, Quake is a sandbox.

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  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3460

8/01/13 11:38:40 AM#13
Originally posted by lizardbones

If I can't dig a 1 meter cube out of the dirt, it's not a sandbox.

That where gamers get messed up. They take a game to be known for being a great sandbox and look at all its features and say that = a sandbox game. Minecraft, SWG etc. Even Minecraft and SWG were very different games. A sandbox MMO that has PvP in it that lets you loot items off players you kill and now looting players is a sandbox feature... NO. Its simple, if the game designed lets you build, change parts of the game you interact with you now have sandbox. Be that your char, the world, crafting and story. How much of the game you can change depends on how much of the game is sandbox.  

  Mendel

Elite Member

Joined: 7/22/11
Posts: 632

8/01/13 11:41:04 AM#14

Originally posted by Dudehog

If there aren't any completely non-combat classes announced, then you can be sure this is just going to be some sort of dumbed down sandpark game and not a real sandbox. Even though I wouldn't play a non-combat class, I think this is the most important reveal they can do tomorrow because it will be very telling about the type of game EQN will end up becoming.

 

While I don't agree at all that a 'Sandbox' needs non-combat classes, I'd be more than excited to see a character class without any combat abilities.   Having a non-combatant class would imply that the game provides a meaningful game experience (at least in the eyes of the developers) that did not invoke the RP convention of fight, loot, level.  (Crafting, in every MMORPG I've played, involves looting to obtain the raw materials.  No one's ever thought of tanning that pig- or cow-hide that they unwrapped of their lunch?   Nope, got to kill a dangerous wolf instead.)

Originally posted by Waterlily

Definition 25098250285028520582058111511515 of Sandbox.

No one cares what a sandbox is anymore at this point.

Agreed.  Can we move on, or at least call it a 'Bumbleshoot' instead of a 'Sandbox'?   The repetition is getting mind-numbing.

 

Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  Adrazahn

Novice Member

Joined: 9/20/04
Posts: 26

8/01/13 11:43:29 AM#15
Originally posted by Waterlily

Definition 25098250285028520582058111511515 of Sandbox.

No one cares what a sandbox is anymore at this point.

This is why I can't stand this whole Sandbox vs Themepark debate. These terms are so vague they're practically meaningless. 

The idea was non-combat classes. Is this or good idea or not? Who gives a crap if it's "sandbox".

 

 

 

 

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3460

8/01/13 11:48:18 AM#16
Originally posted by Adrazahn
Originally posted by Waterlily

Definition 25098250285028520582058111511515 of Sandbox.

No one cares what a sandbox is anymore at this point.

This is why I can't stand this whole Sandbox vs Themepark debate. These terms are so vague they're practically meaningless. 

The idea was non-combat classes. Is this or good idea or not? Who gives a crap if it's "sandbox".

 

 

They are very simple, problem most people dont know what themepark or sandbox means. Its simple, Themepark - play as the devs intended and players interaction with crafting, story, char and world will only have an outcome the devs intended. Sandbox - Players get ti change part or all of the world be that crafting, world, story or char. If you get creative rights over some or all of it you have a sandbox. How much you get to change tells you what % of the game is sandbox. Most MMOs are a hybrid of Sandbox and Themepark.

  keenber

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/10/07
Posts: 438

8/01/13 11:51:21 AM#17
If there is crafting classes that all they can do is crafting then that makes it a non sandbox game due to removing the option to choose what you char can do.
  Ramanadjinn

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/08/11
Posts: 1311

8/01/13 11:52:51 AM#18
Originally posted by keenber
If there is crafting classes that all they can do is crafting then that makes it a non sandbox game due to removing the option to choose what you char can do.

 

They have alluded to the possbility of a character changing classes.

So it could allow you to do what you want to do in a sense by changing from blacksmith to wizard.

I don't know how that would be better than a classless system though.

  Dudehog

Novice Member

Joined: 1/01/12
Posts: 119

 
OP  8/01/13 11:54:34 AM#19
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Adrazahn
Originally posted by Waterlily

Definition 25098250285028520582058111511515 of Sandbox.

No one cares what a sandbox is anymore at this point.

This is why I can't stand this whole Sandbox vs Themepark debate. These terms are so vague they're practically meaningless. 

The idea was non-combat classes. Is this or good idea or not? Who gives a crap if it's "sandbox".

 

 

They are very simple, problem most people dont know what themepark or sandbox means. Its simple, Themepark - play as the devs intended and players interaction with crafting, story, char and world will only have an outcome the devs intended. Sandbox - Players get ti change part or all of the world be that crafting, world, story or char. If you get creative rights over some or all of it you have a sandbox. How much you get to change tells you what % of the game is sandbox. Most MMOs are a hybrid of Sandbox and Themepark.

We all understand ,and we all knew this before you posted it. You can stop repeating yourself.

I wasn't defining the term sandbox in my post. I was giving my opinion of one aspect of what I believe makes a good sandbox game. That's it. I think a good sandbox will have non-combat classes.  Is that so controversial or hard to understand?

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3460

8/01/13 11:59:50 AM#20
Originally posted by Dudehog
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Adrazahn
Originally posted by Waterlily

Definition 25098250285028520582058111511515 of Sandbox.

No one cares what a sandbox is anymore at this point.

This is why I can't stand this whole Sandbox vs Themepark debate. These terms are so vague they're practically meaningless. 

The idea was non-combat classes. Is this or good idea or not? Who gives a crap if it's "sandbox".

 

 

They are very simple, problem most people dont know what themepark or sandbox means. Its simple, Themepark - play as the devs intended and players interaction with crafting, story, char and world will only have an outcome the devs intended. Sandbox - Players get ti change part or all of the world be that crafting, world, story or char. If you get creative rights over some or all of it you have a sandbox. How much you get to change tells you what % of the game is sandbox. Most MMOs are a hybrid of Sandbox and Themepark.

We all understand ,and we all knew this before you posted it. You can stop repeating yourself.

I wasn't defining the term sandbox in my post. I was giving my opinion of one aspect of what I believe makes a good sandbox game. That's it. I think a good sandbox will have non-combat classes.  Is that so controversial or hard to understand?

No you were very clear, if no non-combat classes are in EQN we dont have a real sandbox game. Time to move on then?

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