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News & Features Discussion  » [Column] EverQuest Next: Five Things We Don’t Want in EverQuest Next

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209 posts found
  saker

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/11/04
Posts: 914

Make a WORLD,
Not a Game.

7/31/13 11:24:28 AM#161

I agree with every word of the article!. My first deep luv of MMO's was the original EQ during it's golden age (just prior too, and including Kunark). All the distinct classes, and races and their individual starting areas, wonderful! I want to see a return to that! and I want Magicians something like they were, with the different summoned pets which were distinct. EQ2's equivalent didn't have it, not at all... I so hope $oE doesn't screw this up... I have serious doubts as from the images so far it looks all too WoW-ified... We will soon see!

 

I can definitely do without the fae! Also no dragon-people, not needed already have the wonderful classic Iksar!

 

  saker

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/11/04
Posts: 914

Make a WORLD,
Not a Game.

7/31/13 11:25:48 AM#162
Originally posted by Tjed
This is great!  I have my doubts, because I don't want to get my hopes up, but I agree with everything you said here.  Add in huge non linear, non instanced dungeons and a ton of group content to level cap...... man I gotta reign myself in here... I'm starting to get excited and I've been burnt too many times.  
 

"I've been burnt too many times. "  Ha! I know exactly what you mean, feeling exactly the same myself!

  Karahandras

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/11/08
Posts: 1667

All it takes for evil to succeed is for the good to stand by and do nothing

7/31/13 11:57:39 AM#163
Originally posted by Clattuc

Seamless worlds, lots of individual character choices rather than a linear story on rails, SOE, hmm, hmm, where have I heard these things before?...  Seems like there was some game... the name Koster floats by in the aether...

Adam, I loved STAR WARS GALAXIES too.  Unfortunately, the "lessons" of GALAXIES are baked into SOE's DNA by now.  And they have seen what the new audience likes in MMO's.  I suspect you'll have five disappointments when EQN is revealed.

  Grimlock426

Novice Member

Joined: 7/27/12
Posts: 160

Me not nice Dino! Me bash brains!

7/31/13 12:06:46 PM#164

The funniest thing to me about this discussion, and the previous about what we want in EQN, is that what many people want (probably without even realizing it) is a return to Vanilla WoW.  That's probably why Vanilla WoW was the huge success that it was.   :)

Before the WoW haters jump all over this, I'm not saying that EVERY person wants a return to Vanilla WoW, or that Vanilla WoW was perfect and should be copied exactly, because it should not.  All I'm pointing out is that what I'm reading in a majority of replies, and the main article, are things that Vanilla WoW either had or had something very similar.

5)  Zoning - Vanilla WoW had a seemless map.  You could move from zone to zone without loading screens.  This made the world feel really big and real.  While it's true that Vanilla WoW did have instanced dungeons and raids, it was somewhat balanced out by the fact that it also had many large areas throughout the world that acted similarly to open world dungeons.  There were places such as the castle in Arathi Highlands that had group quests with good rewards and also elite enemies that required teamwork.  There was the Troll temple in the Hinterlands that was the same way.  These are just two examples. 

Additionally, there was no instanced PvP and that led to the epic Tauren Mill/Southshore battles.

4)  Small Map - This was touched on above, but with a seemless world, Azeroth felt HUGE.  There was nothing small about it. 

3)  Limited Scope (Linearity) - Of course this is the area where you could knock Vanilla WoW the most, but for those who played back in Vanilla, you remember that the game was not nearly as linear as it's become.  Back in Vanilla there were exclamation points over quest giver's heads when you found them, but they were not marked on the map.  You had to figure out where to go to find them, or look on the internet.  There were also many different starter zones and an abundance of zones you could level in, such that you could level multiple characters to 60 without repeating the same zone.  The game certainly didn't feel "linear" when you played it originally. 

2) No Fae! - Well duh!  Seriously though, Vanilla WoW had an abundance of races to choose from and had a race to fit just about everyone's idea of what was cool.  There were no lame Blood elves or Pandas. 

1)  Story on Rails - The WoW of today is very much a story on rails as you level up each expansion to inevitably face the major bad guy.  This was not the case in vanilla WoW.  There was no over-arching villain in Vanilla WoW.  Blizzard simply gave us a cool world to explore.  Back in vanilla WoW you very much did go where you wanted and made your own adventure.

Beyond these points, vanilla WoW was very challenging, especially when compared to its current version, or many of the current MMOs.  There was limited fast travel.  No mounts until level 40 and no epic mounts until level 60.  If you played vanilla WoW you realize that attaining an epic mount truly felt rewarding and epic. 

Vanilla WoW had the roaming higher level monsters that were there to gank and scare the lowbies.  There was stiches that would spawn and attack Duskwood.  There were the elite Sons of Arugal in Silverpine Forest, along with the elite devilsaurs in un'goro crater.  These types of mobs made you feel like you had to look over your shoulder while questing.

Epic gear was truly epic.  You didn't get epics handed to you.  If you wanted epic gear you had to work for it.  I could go on and on.

I'm not saying that EQN should be Vanilla WoW 2.0, simply pointing out that what people seem to want is a return to something very similar to what what Vanilla WoW brought to the table 9 years ago.   :)

  jazz.be

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/26/06
Posts: 783

7/31/13 12:21:39 PM#165

3, 4 and 5 will really have a major effect on gameplay and general opinion.

  grimfall

Novice Member

Joined: 4/25/07
Posts: 1159

7/31/13 12:42:06 PM#166
Originally posted by Grimlock426

The funniest thing to me about this discussion, and the previous about what we want in EQN, is that what many people want (probably without even realizing it) is a return to Vanilla WoW.  That's probably why Vanilla WoW was the huge success that it was.   :)

Let's look back at Suzie's article and compare it to your statement:

 

5. Make MMOs HARD Again

Vanilla WoW - Nope.  In fact it was the opposite, compared to EQ or Lineage or FFXI.

4. Give Us Connections to EverQuest and EverQuest 2

Vanilla WoW - Nope.

3. Make Crafting and Active Game, Not Just an Ingredients Checklist

Vanilla Wow - Nope ( I used to do pushups and situps while crafting in Vanllia WoW
 
2. Give a Nod to the Good Old Days

Remember the days when you weren’t simply handed a mount or a skill simply for completing a quest?

Basically that is the exact opposite of Vanilla WoW (well, you had to save to buy your first horse, but the gear, come on!)
 
1. Create World Events that Actually Change the World
 
Vanilla WoW - Nope.
 
So in summary.  Huh?
  Blitzwolfe

Novice Member

Joined: 2/19/13
Posts: 42

7/31/13 12:45:05 PM#167

I have to agree on most points.  The Fae I never saw as a playable race so I am indifferent there.

Not having really played since Luclin, I still have a load of fond memories from EQ.  First time I solo'd the Cyclops in Karana Plains.  Getting my Sword of Yakesha.  Earning my Ranger Epics before level 40.  Becoming a Master Linguist.  Peeling mobs.  Nobody knows what peeling is anymore.  Training Blackbarrow like a boss.  My full set of Crusty armor on my Orc Warrior.

Sigh, nostalgia.

  discord235

Novice Member

Joined: 9/11/11
Posts: 118

7/31/13 12:51:11 PM#168
As with every new MMO coming out, I have a feeling there will be a lot of disappointed fans. 

  Maquiame

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/21/07
Posts: 659

Power without perception is spiritually useless and of no true value

7/31/13 1:28:21 PM#169
Originally posted by viruzex
Originally posted by Maquiame
Originally posted by ninjagranny

Great list although id add

No Race after Iksar

No mounts

No evil erudites ( they just didnt fit really)

zoning i can live with  - just :) 

Alchol abuse needs to come back - nekked drunk running was superb fun .

Not sure about instancing - it seems to ruin most other games UNLESS you have to walk there / get a party to get there 

God I loved EQ1 - from beta till i decided to stop due to the dumbing down -  I had an SBH ;) early on and I was awesome as i could actually kill whisps outside BB - no xp just did it  cos at last i could ... 

GOD I LOVED THAT GAME  - up to  Kunark ( minus the hole) it has never been bettered or even anything come close ..

 

 

 

Your in luck there won't be any Erudites at all! Because different humans and different human cultures in and mmo no longer makes sense to SOE. *rolls eyes*

You would do yourself a lot of good by taking a step back off the overreaction train.  They can always add Odus and the Erudites in.

 

have a nice day

No they won't.From a design standpoint it would make no sense when you can just make a brown human. Besides didn't you know all humans are from Medieval England?

 

Have a nice day~

Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!

  DoomsDay01

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/14/08
Posts: 788

7/31/13 1:49:00 PM#170
I am sure I will be in the minority on this but zones while frustrating in certain areas of EQ was also what made EQ so great. Each area had its own unique feel and look and frankly I dont think any mmo to  date has ever come close to reproducing that and I dont really think its possible in a seemless world. They also served the purpose of mobs chasing you till you left the zone completely which should be a feature in EQ Next. Trains are a big part of EQ history and I would hate to see them gone.
  Thorbrand

Novice Member

Joined: 3/06/04
Posts: 1217

7/31/13 1:52:01 PM#171
I agree but I will  believe it when I see it since every company today is just trying to give us the cheapest gameplay possible without them putting any real effort in it anymore.
  Wizardry

Elite Member

Joined: 8/27/04
Posts: 6898

Perhaps tomorrow will be better.

7/31/13 2:28:52 PM#172

Missed the MOST important one ...NO CASH SHOP !.

I don't mind zones at all,they can actually offer more strategy to game play,problem is the SOE staff is not so good at realizing ideas outside the bubble.

I don't want to see questing as the most proficient reason to level and attain gear.Choice and if they can put on some sort of thinking cap ,more than just the choice of camping in a group.

No matter how good the game is,if i see cash shop all over this game,it's not entering my HD.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Napolianboo#p/u/15/rCYLLQCNc1w
Samoan Diamond

  xAPOCx

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/25/12
Posts: 894

7/31/13 2:49:06 PM#173
Originally posted by Asamof
Everyone ITT saying they want instancing gone are going to be crying/begging for it back when it's near impossible to get any good gear drops due to camping.

Make all gear crafted. Problem solved.

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

7/31/13 2:53:42 PM#174
Originally posted by discord235
As with every new MMO coming out, I have a feeling there will be a lot of disappointed fans. 

Oh hey, first batch of those is coming up in 48 hours, more or less?

Got the team jerseys yet? Still on sale, forum=PVP equipped and ready to go, cheap.

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  Grimlock426

Novice Member

Joined: 7/27/12
Posts: 160

Me not nice Dino! Me bash brains!

7/31/13 3:07:31 PM#175
Originally posted by grimfall
Originally posted by Grimlock426

The funniest thing to me about this discussion, and the previous about what we want in EQN, is that what many people want (probably without even realizing it) is a return to Vanilla WoW.  That's probably why Vanilla WoW was the huge success that it was.   :)

Let's look back at Suzie's article and compare it to your statement:

 

5. Make MMOs HARD Again

Vanilla WoW - Nope.  In fact it was the opposite, compared to EQ or Lineage or FFXI.

4. Give Us Connections to EverQuest and EverQuest 2

Vanilla WoW - Nope.

3. Make Crafting and Active Game, Not Just an Ingredients Checklist

Vanilla Wow - Nope ( I used to do pushups and situps while crafting in Vanllia WoW
 
2. Give a Nod to the Good Old Days

Remember the days when you weren’t simply handed a mount or a skill simply for completing a quest?

Basically that is the exact opposite of Vanilla WoW (well, you had to save to buy your first horse, but the gear, come on!)
 
1. Create World Events that Actually Change the World
 
Vanilla WoW - Nope.
 
So in summary.  Huh?

Huh?  That should be directed at your responses!  It's hard to take you seriously at all when it's obvious you didn't even read what I wrote.  All of the specific points I made were compared to this article:  what we don't want in EQN.  You're obviously going back to the article of what we do want in EQN.  So the first thing I suggest is that you actually read what I wrote in response to THIS article specifically, with a nod to the previous article.

Even so, let's look at what you wrote.

5.  Make it hard - I won't argue that Vanilla WoW was as hard as EQ 1, however compared to most all MMOs released since 2004, Vanilla WoW is VERY difficult.  Let's face it, you're not likely to ever see anything quite as difficult as EQ 1 was, but Vanilla WoW certainly had many challenges.

4.  Obviously WoW can't give a comparison to EQ.  Obviously also though I wasn't say make Vanilla WoW and call it EQN.

3.  Make crafting an active game - I'm not going to argue that crafting in wow is deep or engaging.

2.  Give a nod to the good old days - It seems to me like you didn't play vanilla wow.  Not only was saving for an epic mount a huge challenge, but you WERE ABSOLUTELY NOT given gear.  You got epic gear from raiding 40-man dungeons, or from crafting it made from mats that only came from epic dungeons.  Towards the end of the vanilla life cycle they started having the 20-man raids that dropped epic gear, but that was still no walk in the park. 

1.  Give events that change the world - I agree that vanilla wow did not have events that changed the world and that was one of the main things I would like to see different in EQN, or any MMO for that matter.

To summarize, I never said that EQN should just be Vanilla WoW re-skinned.  My point was just that a lot of what people want out of EQN was what was contained in Vanilla WoW.  I absolutely think there are things that can be improved upon in EQN and I would hope they do, but starting with vanilla WoW as a base and expanding from there, using the EQ lore of course, would not be a bad way to begin.

  maxcancer

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/20/04
Posts: 11

7/31/13 3:33:15 PM#176

You forget the most important thing

 

we don't want SOE too

  eric_w66

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/12/06
Posts: 1009

7/31/13 3:54:15 PM#177

As I mentioned in the wish list thread before, this game is being designed with the PS4 in mind. All other 'wishes' are moot at this point.

 

The only wish that matters is 'I wish the PS4 wasn't involved in EQN'. Till that comes true, nothing else matters.

  DavisFlight

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2594

7/31/13 4:59:02 PM#178
Originally posted by grimfall
Originally posted by Grimlock426

The funniest thing to me about this discussion, and the previous about what we want in EQN, is that what many people want (probably without even realizing it) is a return to Vanilla WoW.  That's probably why Vanilla WoW was the huge success that it was.   :)

Let's look back at Suzie's article and compare it to your statement:

 

5. Make MMOs HARD Again

Vanilla WoW - Nope.  In fact it was the opposite, compared to EQ or Lineage or FFXI.

4. Give Us Connections to EverQuest and EverQuest 2

Vanilla WoW - Nope.

3. Make Crafting and Active Game, Not Just an Ingredients Checklist

Vanilla Wow - Nope ( I used to do pushups and situps while crafting in Vanllia WoW
 
2. Give a Nod to the Good Old Days

Remember the days when you weren’t simply handed a mount or a skill simply for completing a quest?

Basically that is the exact opposite of Vanilla WoW (well, you had to save to buy your first horse, but the gear, come on!)
 
1. Create World Events that Actually Change the World
 
Vanilla WoW - Nope.
 
So in summary.  Huh?

Spot on. People can claim that WoW USED to be less linear and harder, but that doesn't change the fact that when it launched it was the most casual, linear, solo ecouraging MMO on the market.

 

The MMO market has gotten so bad that people are looking back on games that used to be considered primitive and easy, like WoW and Runescape, and hailing them as lost gems. It's sad.

  User Deleted
7/31/13 5:03:13 PM#179


Originally posted by Icewhite

Originally posted by Four0Six Funny thing about "fantasy fans", we are all racist.   Yup. you hate Fae, I hate Elves.
I am not a fan of Orcs. But I still prefer them to Spaceships.


You're a Spacist!

  darkchyld85

Novice Member

Joined: 11/18/11
Posts: 2

7/31/13 5:51:55 PM#180

Exactly!

I remember the first time I bought EQ (right when Kunark came out) and logging in to create my character. I made a Wood Elf Druid and started in Kelethin.

I repeat, those days were the hardest and most fun out of any MMO I've ever played, period. I myself wasn't involved with the story, but there wasn't this crap where you have quests on your minimap popping up. You had to 'hail' a person and attempt to make conversation just to get a quest started. I had never been so lost, but god was whacking bees with a bat fun.

I agree with the article particially up to the instances. Like many others have mentioned, some of the better expansions were the instanced ones. Someone yelling "TRAIN, CHOO CHOOOOOO" while you're puny little group is trying hard as hell to whack the orcs at the ENT, and forcing to zone to the instance to Kelethin, you just can't beat that. 

I think instancing if done correctly, like EQ had in a lot of ways, wins a lot of hearts. But I can a point, nowadays I wouldn't want every zone to connect as an instance. Maybe in certain quests, adventures, raids, etc but other than that I don't see much problem with instances.

I hope the crafting is a bit more like a game also. I would like crafting to be somewhat more involved and a challenge, and the rewards be greater for taking some sort of risks. Not just drag and drop and everyone gets the same result all the time.  That's just a personal pet peeve though.

Lastly, 

LOIO and The Overthere ... the grinding in groups. That also was what made the game more memorable for me. Not a crazy hard grind like some of your JPRGs, but harder than WoW.

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