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News & Features Discussion  » [Column] General: When Power Diminishes Us

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  Incomparable

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/11/11
Posts: 785

7/28/13 11:35:05 AM#21
Its not so much being a douche, but how people percieve problems and importantly to the discusion here, how they deal with the problem.

A wealtheir person might have a different perspective but ultimately how they deal with a problem might be to be verbally express their frustration. Since they most likely don't have to care how authority perceives them.

However, a less wealthy person with also a similar or different perspective would handle their problem slightly more differently. Since also depending on the situation, i would conclude that a less wealthy person to be subtle in their handling of the situation.

For example, a waiter might spit in a wealthy and rude patron. ( they could be poor and rude patrons - since being poor is a huge negative influence on mood. I guess the study focused on a demographic which is making ends meet and slightly well off kind of poor - which means its not a proper test)

And in many cases less wealthy are sneakier due to their respect for authority, and a greater inclination to blow off steam due to financial frustrations and also a culture that somewhat glorifies it.

This sneaky attitude could easily become very unethical.

And overall, is wealth really a correlation to bad attitude?

Maybe there needs to be a study on wealthy people. Maybe waiters who are depressed put some of their medicine in the wealthier persons food.

Since imo, a financially well off person has less baggage and more reason to be happy and therefore less douchey.

Or could be as simple as something related to drugs, and a lot of wealthy people do drugs which affects their behavior.

And to combine poor and rich realities. Maybe poor drug dealers sell wealthier bored people bad drugs, because they don't care and are used to being sneaky.

In conclusion, i find the study incomplete and goes against the idea that financial security is a positive thing. Look at any ghetto and the increase in violence compared to a suburban neighborhood. Its really case and point.

“Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble”

  User Deleted
7/29/13 10:10:08 AM#22
well imho the world is headed towards doom the world economy is following the same principles the roman empire did and look how it turned out it BURNED "dont have enough money, lets print more"
  Scot

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5281

7/30/13 2:52:33 AM#23

I say why don't we denigrate skill and achievement as much as we can? Why don't we make people who become better qualified and wealthier feel ashamed!

Hey you wealthy guy! You must be an ethical slimebag because you are wealthy! Look at me I am not so wealthy, I must be a paragon of good!

When it comes to relating this to MMO's you seem to be saying that whales need to be spreading their wealth among the F2P players. Of course a F2P MMO could not exist without the whales, I wonder what you make of that?

 

Thanks DA for using your column to promote your political agenda, maybe we can get back to MMO's next time?

  Abangyarudo

Novice Member

Joined: 6/01/07
Posts: 156

7/30/13 1:40:28 PM#24

 

Originally posted by Incomparable
Its not so much being a douche, but how people perceive problems and importantly to the discussion here, how they deal with the problem.

A wealthier person might have a different perspective but ultimately how they deal with a problem might be to be verbally express their frustration. Since they most likely don't have to care how authority perceives them.

However, a less wealthy person with also a similar or different perspective would handle their problem slightly more differently. Since also depending on the situation, i would conclude that a less wealthy person to be subtle in their handling of the situation.

For example, a waiter might spit in a wealthy and rude patron. ( they could be poor and rude patrons - since being poor is a huge negative influence on mood. I guess the study focused on a demographic which is making ends meet and slightly well off kind of poor - which means its not a proper test)

And in many cases less wealthy are sneakier due to their respect for authority, and a greater inclination to blow off steam due to financial frustrations and also a culture that somewhat glorifies it.

This sneaky attitude could easily become very unethical.

And overall, is wealth really a correlation to bad attitude?

Maybe there needs to be a study on wealthy people. Maybe waiters who are depressed put some of their medicine in the wealthier persons food.

Since imo, a financially well off person has less baggage and more reason to be happy and therefore less douchey.

Or could be as simple as something related to drugs, and a lot of wealthy people do drugs which affects their behavior.

And to combine poor and rich realities. Maybe poor drug dealers sell wealthier bored people bad drugs, because they don't care and are used to being sneaky.

In conclusion, i find the study incomplete and goes against the idea that financial security is a positive thing. Look at any ghetto and the increase in violence compared to a suburban neighborhood. Its really case and point.

ok find conclusive evidence and prove him wrong. Anyone can participate in the scientific method you don't have to be studying science. Furthermore everything you have provided is anecdotal at best Invincible ignorance at worst. As an example mostly everything you've said I've found to be false personally (again not representative because it would be based on anecdotal evidence) the minor true things i find to be incomplete. I'll just address a few of your points: 

 


since being poor is a huge negative influence on mood.  

 

This really depends on location as an example I've lived in two very different places. When I was living in Long Island, New York people were as you described and why i think your idea is incomplete is because in that environment you are confronted everywhere with income equality. I lived in a poor neighborhood but I could walk to a neighboring town that had gated communities,  fancy houses, etc. 

When I moved to a small town in AZ it wasn't the same. Most people here are not confronted with the fact of their socioeconomic status in the same way. So I found them very happy even in conditions that would never be acceptable living back in Long Island. As an example I know a guy who has a house turned off his gas (in winter months he foregoes heat), uses his living room as a garage (stores a bike there) has shabby furniture (big holes in couches, permanently stained and cat urine seeped into the fabric) while that was bad it was not misrepresentative of the area. 

While that evidence is anecdotal in nature recent studies (example) have found the same thing . It also perscribes this viewpoint to other factors. Either way I think its telling noting that despite popular theory I believe its more inequality  people have issues with than straight out socioeconomic class. 

 

 


 In conclusion, i find the study incomplete and goes against the idea that financial security is a positive thing. Look at any ghetto and the increase in violence compared to a suburban neighborhood. Its really case and point.
 

 

This is really a case of Ignoratio Elenchi because if you do some research you'll find that it may not be exactly true. Illustrating this point I looked up my old hometown to give you some anecdotal evidence while I was there the Dunkin donuts next to us had been robbed multiple times, one of the employees was shot, there was rampant stealing at the store i was at, my store was held up once with a screw driver (they usually avoided us as Dunkin donuts was also 24 hours and they had 1 person as opposed to our 3 people at night). Here is those same statistics for the Hamptons if you are unfamiliar this is an area where many Hollywood stars and other economically elite live in or around. 

I decided after this to make a new sample to further drive the point home. I looked up the same statatics for where I live now compared to the nearest urban center. While this stretches closer to your conclusion you can easily see some rather crazy statistics that seem to fly in the face of it. As an example where I live now has a higher murder rate per 1000 people than Phoenix. Phoenix has a really bad rep here for having murders everyday, etc etc. Rape is only .08 higher in Phoenix which I find very odd. Robby goes towards your opinion (mostly because no one here has much that is worth anything) but assault is close to .75 higher where I live now.

So given that Phoenix was much closer to a ghetto and the small town I reside in was more violent in alot of ways I looked to the local newspaper.  Surely such a place would have a new site full of tragedies. There was 60 stories and about 3 were violent crime related. So I looked to Phoenix's paper and out of 10 stories 5 of them were violent in nature also they have a place on the website to view who has been arrested lately for what. So I think in all I've shown with evidence why your assertions are not supported by factual evidence. That is why I implore you or anybody for that matter to find their own evidence and forget the media bias, evidence doesn't lie. 

 

 

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  Abangyarudo

Novice Member

Joined: 6/01/07
Posts: 156

7/30/13 2:00:28 PM#25
Originally posted by Scot

I say why don't we denigrate skill and achievement as much as we can? Why don't we make people who become better qualified and wealthier feel ashamed!

Hey you wealthy guy! You must be an ethical slimebag because you are wealthy! Look at me I am not so wealthy, I must be a paragon of good!

When it comes to relating this to MMO's you seem to be saying that whales need to be spreading their wealth among the F2P players. Of course a F2P MMO could not exist without the whales, I wonder what you make of that?

 

Thanks DA for using your column to promote your political agenda, maybe we can get back to MMO's next time?

It is not a political agenda to state some obvious differences. For an example of this as stated in the study more successful people think that everything is directly related to their skills even if it flies in the face of logic. If this was truly a meritocracy type of thing I think we would have more competent people doing their jobs. Furthermore this is directly related to video games of all types. a company who produces a "hit" video game will usually assign their success to skill and labor put into the product whether or not its true. It's fine to pat yourself on the back and no one should say that none of those had a factor in their success but lets be realistic there are multiple factors which take center stage more then the physical labor and the skill of the development team involved. If this was the case smaller & indie companies would be idolized instead of behemoths like Blizzard and SOE. 

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  Abangyarudo

Novice Member

Joined: 6/01/07
Posts: 156

7/30/13 2:17:32 PM#26

 

 

Originally posted by Wraithone
Originally posted by killahh
Did Lincoln become a tyrant? Hmm

Can't make a cake without breaking a few eggs.

Anyone who examines real history knows Lincoln became a tyrant.  His own actions demonstrate his lack of respect for his oath of office, and his trampling of the Constitution and Bill of Rights are well known.

I've never subscribed to the concept that the ends, justify the means used to achieve them. Any more than I believe that one has to destroy the Constitution, to "save" it...

Power corrupts in games and real life.  Its not a matter of picking the "right" people.  Its a fact that NO ONE should hold that amount of power.  Nor should anyone who actively seeks out power, be trusted with it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Real_Lincoln

http://mises.org/misesreview_detail.aspx?control=207

While some of the claims there is true. I don't find the author very credible due to his own shenanigans and while I agree people should research more about historical figures before putting them on a pedestal most of the books has been universally accepted as hyperbole and rhetoric. The fact that he fails to even know that the thing he accuses Lincoln of were the things his own party at the time supported. Some of his claims just fly against rational logic while others are severely out of context. An example: 

 


[There are] a few, but an increasing number of men, who, for the sake of perpetuating slavery, are beginning to assail and to ridicule the white man's charter of freedom, the declaration "that all men are created equal." So far as I have learned, the first American, of any note, to do or attempt this, was the late John C. Calhoun; and if I mistake not, it soon after found its way into some of the messages of the Governors of South Carolina. We, however, look for, and are not much shocked by, political eccentricities and heresies in South Carolina. But, only last year, I saw with astonishment, what purported to be a letter of a very distinguished and influential clergyman of Virginia, copied, with apparent approbation, into a St. Louis newspaper, containing the following, to me, very extraordinary language: 

 


I am fully aware that there is a text in some Bibles that is not in mine. Professional abolitionists have made more use of it, than of any passage in the Bible. It came, however, as I trace it, from Saint Voltaire, and was baptized by Thomas Jefferson, and since almost universally regarded as canonical authority 'All men are born equal and free.'


 

which he shortened to: 

 


 I am fully aware that there is a text in some Bibles that is not in mine. Professional abolitionists have made more use of it, than of any passage in the Bible. It came, however, as I trace it, from Saint Voltaire, and was baptized by Thomas Jefferson, and since almost universally regarded as canonical authority 'All men are born equal and free.
 

 

Ascribing this quote to Lincoln when it was quoted from a Virginia clergyman as stated initially just seems to try to pull the wool over people's eyes. It's dishonest, irresponsible and quite frankly insulting to people who are intellectuals and check their facts. While I agree that he like many politicians got this larger than life image after death that source is useless as evidence towards that fact. 

 

Furthermore I dissagree with the assessment that absolute power corrupts absolutely. As an example politically I always wished people would have voted for Ralph Nader. He has stuck to the same basic principles and refuses to relent from them. I think the very people who are attracted to a political position are the worst people for the job. I think the best people for these positions are people who don't want them but have strong moral compassesses. As an example of this I think of Senator Bernie Sanders who has always advocated for the middle and lower classes despite all the outside influences seeking to turn that around. 

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  victorbjr

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/13/10
Posts: 163

7/31/13 12:08:51 AM#27
Originally posted by Scot

I say why don't we denigrate skill and achievement as much as we can? Why don't we make people who become better qualified and wealthier feel ashamed!

Hey you wealthy guy! You must be an ethical slimebag because you are wealthy! Look at me I am not so wealthy, I must be a paragon of good!

When it comes to relating this to MMO's you seem to be saying that whales need to be spreading their wealth among the F2P players. Of course a F2P MMO could not exist without the whales, I wonder what you make of that?

 

Thanks DA for using your column to promote your political agenda, maybe we can get back to MMO's next time?

Um... just a question.

 

Which country or party's political agenda am I supposed to be promoting?

I'm not American or European, mind you. I'm a relatively well-off Filipino in the Philippines who saw something worth sharing in a video as it relates to how people perceive their surroundings and successes relative to what they have. I had a moment of introspection, and noticed the gaming connection and ran with it as a possible point of discussion and thought.

I'm also not denigrating skill or achievement. I'm only pointing to the possibility that there are other things to be concerned with when something happens and people may not be entirely cognizant of the other things that can contribute to a particular success in their life or in a game. 

Should I have made a PVP match comparison to better explain the point, because I totally can, ya know. :)

A writer and gamer from the Philippines. Loves his mom dearly. :)

Can also be found on http://www.gamesandgeekery.com

  Scot

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5281

7/31/13 3:39:40 AM#28

We all have are own agendas, you don't have to be from a particular country or follow a particular party to have one. Posters on here supporting or hitting out at PvP have an agenda, it is quite natural that we do. We all push our own view on life to other people, that's all I meant.

Of course I accept that we may not always be aware of the things that contribute to our success or anything else we do in life, but this study went rather beyond that. Saying that wealthy people are more unethical and less generous seems fairly political to me.

I can nod my head at what the other poster said about why indie studios that do well should be applauded. If you do well without the huge machinery of a big gaming company behind you, that shows talent, drive and skill.

  victorbjr

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/13/10
Posts: 163

8/01/13 6:35:59 AM#29
Originally posted by Scot

We all have are own agendas, you don't have to be from a particular country or follow a particular party to have one. Posters on here supporting or hitting out at PvP have an agenda, it is quite natural that we do. We all push our own view on life to other people, that's all I meant.

Of course I accept that we may not always be aware of the things that contribute to our success or anything else we do in life, but this study went rather beyond that. Saying that wealthy people are more unethical and less generous seems fairly political to me.

I can nod my head at what the other poster said about why indie studios that do well should be applauded. If you do well without the huge machinery of a big gaming company behind you, that shows talent, drive and skill.

 

Heyo!

 

Thanks for the response to my comment.

 

I can agree with the view-pushing idea to some extent. As a columnist who delves into a lot of different things for topics here, I see a lot of  viewpoints, and I can understand the idea that I may be pushing an agenda without intending to. 

I think what I'd like, with regard to the berkeley research, is  to see is the actual paper on this to know what specific experimental contexts were used to formulate the final results. :)

A writer and gamer from the Philippines. Loves his mom dearly. :)

Can also be found on http://www.gamesandgeekery.com

  Abangyarudo

Novice Member

Joined: 6/01/07
Posts: 156

8/01/13 5:03:44 PM#30
Originally posted by victorbjr
Originally posted by Scot

We all have are own agendas, you don't have to be from a particular country or follow a particular party to have one. Posters on here supporting or hitting out at PvP have an agenda, it is quite natural that we do. We all push our own view on life to other people, that's all I meant.

Of course I accept that we may not always be aware of the things that contribute to our success or anything else we do in life, but this study went rather beyond that. Saying that wealthy people are more unethical and less generous seems fairly political to me.

I can nod my head at what the other poster said about why indie studios that do well should be applauded. If you do well without the huge machinery of a big gaming company behind you, that shows talent, drive and skill.

 

Heyo!

 

Thanks for the response to my comment.

 

I can agree with the view-pushing idea to some extent. As a columnist who delves into a lot of different things for topics here, I see a lot of  viewpoints, and I can understand the idea that I may be pushing an agenda without intending to. 

I think what I'd like, with regard to the berkeley research, is  to see is the actual paper on this to know what specific experimental contexts were used to formulate the final results. :)

yea a recent problem I've encountered is most studies that are commonly quoted have a flawed methodology. As an example someone quoted a study in which they said that blind people still show a preference for beautiful people. So I looked at the actual study involved and it lists under possible issues that it is possible that some of his staff had mentioned or hinted at who was physically attractive so I found that a deal breaker in any results he gained from the process. It is an easily foreseeable problem and easy to avoid. 

I think the real issue here is that people especially in America celebrate wealth. So anything that denotes the wealthy in an unkind light will be met with harsh resistance. This is due to many reasons but the outcome is the same. Either way personally I found this article great digression into the human condition. I've personally noticed alot of people separating themselves unnesscarily based on differences of income even when the difference isn't that great.

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  Scot

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5281

8/02/13 4:48:08 AM#31
Originally posted by Abangyarudo
Originally posted by victorbjr
Originally posted by Scot

We all have are own agendas, you don't have to be from a particular country or follow a particular party to have one. Posters on here supporting or hitting out at PvP have an agenda, it is quite natural that we do. We all push our own view on life to other people, that's all I meant.

Of course I accept that we may not always be aware of the things that contribute to our success or anything else we do in life, but this study went rather beyond that. Saying that wealthy people are more unethical and less generous seems fairly political to me.

I can nod my head at what the other poster said about why indie studios that do well should be applauded. If you do well without the huge machinery of a big gaming company behind you, that shows talent, drive and skill.

 

Heyo!

 

Thanks for the response to my comment.

 

I can agree with the view-pushing idea to some extent. As a columnist who delves into a lot of different things for topics here, I see a lot of  viewpoints, and I can understand the idea that I may be pushing an agenda without intending to. 

I think what I'd like, with regard to the berkeley research, is  to see is the actual paper on this to know what specific experimental contexts were used to formulate the final results. :)

yea a recent problem I've encountered is most studies that are commonly quoted have a flawed methodology. As an example someone quoted a study in which they said that blind people still show a preference for beautiful people. So I looked at the actual study involved and it lists under possible issues that it is possible that some of his staff had mentioned or hinted at who was physically attractive so I found that a deal breaker in any results he gained from the process. It is an easily foreseeable problem and easy to avoid. 

I think the real issue here is that people especially in America celebrate wealth. So anything that denotes the wealthy in an unkind light will be met with harsh resistance. This is due to many reasons but the outcome is the same. Either way personally I found this article great digression into the human condition. I've personally noticed alot of people separating themselves unnesscarily based on differences of income even when the difference isn't that great.

I am not an American, so my "resistance" to the study had nothing to do with that. Rather, it is based on my observation that most studies in the area of social science are based on the predisposition of the researchers involved. Society is a much more emotive and controversial issue than that covered by any hard science. The bias of the researchers plays a large part in such studies. When you add on to that the fact we only hear about the studies journalists in the media think are "news worthy" you have to question why journalists pick the studies to highlight that they do.

Why do researchers pick a certain area of society to study? If you are doing a study that looks to see if certain areas of society have differences, I would suggest you probably already think there are differences. The Greater Good Science Center who are behind this study is predisposed to finding such differences. After all if there were no such differences to be found in our society there would be no reason for them to exist.

In summary I am not suggesting we dismiss social science, but you do need to apply your critical facilities to any scientific study, especially those that are cherry picked by the media.

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