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General Discussion 

The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Nov 2004 = WOW best MMO choice | August 2013 = WOW best MMO choice

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81 posts found
  KBishop

Novice Member

Joined: 7/08/13
Posts: 205

7/29/13 4:40:34 PM#21
Originally posted by Ramanadjinn
Wow is definitely one of the best MMOs out if you're into that whole "WOW" thing.

Apparently most of the western MMORPG market thinks so

Considering the fact that people have other options of MMORPG's all of which cost the same, and in some cases some are free to play, AND WoW STILL has the highest sub base atm, I'd say that yea, WoW is the best MMO out there.

  Wighty

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/10/08
Posts: 544

7/29/13 4:45:31 PM#22

I think you are confusing "BEST" with "MOST POPULAR"... I mean McDonalds has been around forever and certainly the formula has changed over the years and it's popularity has grown...

 

To me that stuff tastes like dog shit... not that I have tried it but it is what I would imagine it would taste like.

What are your other Hobbies?

Gaming is Dirt Cheap compared to this...

  KBishop

Novice Member

Joined: 7/08/13
Posts: 205

7/29/13 4:47:54 PM#23
Originally posted by Wighty

I think you are confusing "BEST" with "MOST POPULAR"... I mean McDonalds has been around forever and certainly the formula has changed over the years and it's popularity has grown...

 

To me that stuff tastes like dog shit... not that I have tried it but it is what I would imagine it would taste like.

That's a bad argument.

People go to mcdonalds because it's cheaper and quicker than most options. Not because of the quality. WoW is offering you their product of the SAME price (and in some cases a higher price), and no real change in customer service. When the price is the same, then people aren't flocking to something because it's more popular, they are flocking to it because they personally find it better.

  gkb3469

Novice Member

Joined: 7/22/09
Posts: 153

7/29/13 4:53:39 PM#24
I consider WoW the Backstreet Boys/Britany Spears of MMOs. They can churn out the hits but are they really that great? Sure we love to sing along and have fun but no one REALLY likes them. Are you really going to put them on the same tier as Motzart or The Beatles? No. Millions of people LOVE wow and they should but that doesnt mean its the best. 
  lathaan

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/02/04
Posts: 469

7/29/13 5:00:04 PM#25

WoW threads in 2004 = WoW threads in 2013

God bless GW2 and its community ;)

  codifier

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/14/12
Posts: 49

7/29/13 5:08:58 PM#26

F2P is the worst thing to happen to MMORPGs.

 

I was seriously hoping that EQNext would be a return to sub-based MMOs and an emphasis on quality gameplay.

 

F2P usually involves pay to win.  F2P often features built-in cheating (currency exchange like GW2 gems or Rift REX turn the hosting companies into the "chinese gold sellers").  Any game where you can "win" by throwing cash at the system is garbage.

 

The best MMOs in MMO history were sub-based and had gameplay and content that built and preserved community.  You just will never match that with a F2P model.

 

 

I find it disgusting to read these kind of posts where people blame the F2P model, when it's actually the publisher's fault. Btw, I don't see anything wrong with RIFT's F2P model, it seems that you have grown to hate F2P in every aspect.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19086

7/29/13 5:10:44 PM#27
Originally posted by gkb3469
I consider WoW the Backstreet Boys/Britany Spears of MMOs. They can churn out the hits but are they really that great? Sure we love to sing along and have fun but no one REALLY likes them. Are you really going to put them on the same tier as Motzart or The Beatles? No. Millions of people LOVE wow and they should but that doesnt mean its the best. 

"great" or not is just a matter of preferences.

Blizz games are all highly rated on metacritics, a fact.

Blizz games are all fun to me, another fact. Other than that, there is really nothing more to add.

 

  WhiteLantern

Novice Member

Joined: 1/27/10
Posts: 2778

7/29/13 5:12:56 PM#28
Originally posted by CrazKanuk
Originally posted by Kopogero

Although soon it might be #1 or #2 choice cuz of FFXIV:ARR, but still that has to be determined and of course this is just my opinion, but I would love to be wrong...

The irony is how 9 years has passed, which is 10% of our lives...and some things we can learn.

Great MMORPG ran by a great company can last for almost a decade and be still superior. So if anyone has to blame anything else, but themself for not managing to achieve HALF of WOW's success will continue to deliver what we've mostly seen delivered over the years and I would really prefer if I played more than 5-6 great MMORPG's in my lifetime...

Thanks for reminding me that I spent 10% of my life playing WoW :) 

 

I thought it was odd that the OP is 90 years old, but you are also?

I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil

  Wizardry

Elite Member

Joined: 8/27/04
Posts: 6538

Perhaps tomorrow will be better.

7/29/13 5:18:55 PM#29

When Wow came in there were more brand new gamer's than all the years since then.It was only a couple years prior that everyone was still waiting for DSl and to see it come down in price to where everyone could afford it.

Blizzard was a rinky dink entry into the genre.Ancient feeble game engine,no console support just a weak entry into the genre.

A very easy example is to look at right now.We might see 1-2 million new mmorpg gamer's each year...IF THAT.If Wow was released right now,it would only have 1-2 million tops unless it could pull gamer's from other games.Since there are so many games doing what Wow is doing, it would have been a very tough sell,definitely not a big success.

It is because you cannot compare drawing from 10-15 million new gamer's to  present day 1-2 million that you have to look at numbers by %..If Wow went from 16>7-8 million,that means they have lost 50% of it's player base.Yes other games are even worse,but looking at it from realistic terms Wow no longer seems like such a success.

We all know for FACT that players tend to not want to let go of all their years of hard work,so retaining your player base is a common trend across all games,that is why it is a better number to judge a game by.You cannot compare how many you got right away when you had a HUGE advantage over EVERY game since the DSL boom era.

The market was not saturated back then either like it is now,that is why everyone has to go f2p.

 

http://www.youtube.com/user/Napolianboo#p/u/15/rCYLLQCNc1w
Samoan Diamond

  aesperus

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 4563

7/29/13 5:26:21 PM#30

It's funny, cause on this site WoW isn't even on the top 5.

If you're talking about subs, then yes, but it's long been proven that popular doesn't = best, unless you only are interested in playing games that earn the most money.

Heck, we've had McDonalds as one of the most dominant 'restaurant' in America for how long now? Even though most Americans don't really like it anymore.

  WhiteLantern

Novice Member

Joined: 1/27/10
Posts: 2778

7/29/13 5:28:43 PM#31
Originally posted by aesperus

It's funny, cause on this site WoW isn't even on the top 5.

If you're talking about subs, then yes, but it's long been proven that popular doesn't = best, unless you only are interested in playing games that earn the most money.

Heck, we've had McDonalds as one of the most dominant 'restaurant' in America for how long now? Even though most Americans don't really like it anymore.

I really wish you guys would stop using the tired Mcdonalds analogies. Now I feel the urge to pick up a happy meal on the way home.

I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil

  KBishop

Novice Member

Joined: 7/08/13
Posts: 205

7/29/13 5:30:14 PM#32
Originally posted by aesperus

It's funny, cause on this site WoW isn't even on the top 5.

If you're talking about subs, then yes, but it's long been proven that popular doesn't = best, unless you only are interested in playing games that earn the most money.

Heck, we've had McDonalds as one of the most dominant 'restaurant' in America for how long now? Even though most Americans don't really like it anymore.

I JUST responded to the same argument at the top of the page lol

That's a bad argument.

People go to mcdonalds because it's cheaper and quicker than most options. Not because of the quality. WoW is offering you their product of the SAME price (and in some cases a higher price), and no real change in customer service. When the price is the same, then people aren't flocking to something because it's more popular, they are flocking to it because they personally find it better.

  Quorina

Novice Member

Joined: 12/06/12
Posts: 43

7/29/13 5:49:55 PM#33
Originally posted by KBishop
Originally posted by Wighty

I think you are confusing "BEST" with "MOST POPULAR"... I mean McDonalds has been around forever and certainly the formula has changed over the years and it's popularity has grown...

 

To me that stuff tastes like dog shit... not that I have tried it but it is what I would imagine it would taste like.

That's a bad argument.

People go to mcdonalds because it's cheaper and quicker than most options. Not because of the quality. WoW is offering you their product of the SAME price (and in some cases a higher price), and no real change in customer service. When the price is the same, then people aren't flocking to something because it's more popular, they are flocking to it because they personally find it better.

Actually, your whole "it's good because it's popular" argument is the bad argument (http://www.logicalfallacies.info/relevance/appeals/appeal-to-popularity/), because it is a logical fallacy to appeal to popularity, so let's not be illogical like you have been, all right?

Anyway. on topic, WoW was a good MMO...back in the day. Now it is a shell of its former glory. Too dumbed down, too casual, too boring, too appealing to the lowest common denominator, it is not for me any longer. But...it is definitely a LOT better than other MMOs out there, even if it is like a 6/10 now. Back in the TBC days? Easily a 9.5/10. I don't want to play an MMO simply because it is the lesser of the two evils, or three evils, or 20 evils, I want to play a game because it is GOOD, and a game lacking immersion and heavily relying on daily quests at end-game just doesn't do it for me any longer.

Let's look at the other MMOs, most of which are WoW "clones", that I've played:

RIFT: Vanilla RIFT was decent, the zones were beautiful, the dungeons were challenging, there was a lot of choice in the talent trees, but the immersion was not there. World PvP was lacking a bit, and it had a clear "raid or die" mentality, with almost all end game leading to raiding, which may appeal to some, but not to me. LOVED the dynamic events, hated the times it cloned WoW. For example, when the Ranger was developed, hunters in WoW couldn't shoot bows from close quarters and RIFT clearly copied this as well. They also tried to do the fixed mana thing as well as soon as WoW did it, but failed (I think?) because of the backlash. Now...Storm Legion is very lacking, imo. The zones are huge, but the mobs are so spread out that it becomes tedious. Carnage quests sucked. The roads were not intuitive or logical in any way and had mobs crawling on them, forcing you to fight your way through this mob or that mob on the way from point A to point B. PvP was horribly imbalanced.

SWTOR: Good story, but if I wanted story I'd read a book or watch a movie. This game was lacking in gameplay, lacked decent end-game, the graphics were ugly, the armour sets were ugly, and a lot of the skills and talent trees were a complete rip off from WoW. No thanks.

GW2: If I wanted a single-player MMO I'd play SWTOR. Also, if I wanted socialism, where everyone is rewarded equally regardless of time, skill or investment, I'd move to Cuba. 'Nuff said. The WORST MMO I've ever played, and yes, that is my opinion.

TERA: Graphics were good, combat was great, quests were horrid with 90% of them being "kill x". No thanks.

Other MMOs I've played? TSW, LotRO (combat is HORRIBLE), EQ1 (good for its time), EvE (not new player friendly at all), STO (lol) and RO, just to name a few.

If I wanted to play WoW, I'd play WoW! That simple! But I don't! I want something new to the table, idgaf if it is themepark or sandbox, just something...fresh. Good immersion, good RPG elements, challenging but not impossible, makes you think; something that will revolutionize the MMO genre.

Even though I am looking forward to Wildstar, Divergence Online and FFXIV, I doubt they will do anything for me. I am not buying the hype surrounding these games!

 

  cydoneq

Novice Member

Joined: 7/15/13
Posts: 59

7/29/13 6:05:53 PM#34
Originally posted by CrazKanuk

WoW still has some of the cleanest gameplay out there, for sure. I'm less convinced that they have the best game out there now, though. 

this, i would even say it has still the best!

  Betaguy

Elite Member

Joined: 12/31/04
Posts: 2523

Some folks are like Slinkies, totally useless but great fun to watch when pushed down stairs

7/29/13 6:10:49 PM#35
Originally posted by KBishop
Originally posted by Wighty

I think you are confusing "BEST" with "MOST POPULAR"... I mean McDonalds has been around forever and certainly the formula has changed over the years and it's popularity has grown...

 

To me that stuff tastes like dog shit... not that I have tried it but it is what I would imagine it would taste like.

That's a bad argument.

People go to mcdonalds because it's cheaper and quicker than most options. Not because of the quality. WoW is offering you their product of the SAME price (and in some cases a higher price), and no real change in customer service. When the price is the same, then people aren't flocking to something because it's more popular, they are flocking to it because they personally find it better.

My pet peeve is people who go to McDonald's and order a salad and a water... Just saying.

  Nizur

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 5/15/09
Posts: 1428

7/29/13 6:11:49 PM#36
Originally posted by Briansho
WOW Nov 2004 > WOW Aug 2013

Agreed. I lost interest during BC. Came back a little for WotLK. Totally lost interest during Cata and still have zero interest to try MoP.

Current: None
Played: WoW, CoX, SWG, LotRO, EVE, AoC, VG, CO, Ryzom, DF, WAR
Tried: Lineage2, Dofus, EQ2, CoS, FE, UO, Wurm, Wakfu
Future: The Repopulation, ArcheAge, Black Desert, EQN

  KBishop

Novice Member

Joined: 7/08/13
Posts: 205

7/29/13 11:30:42 PM#37
Originally posted by Quorina
Originally posted by KBishop
Originally posted by Wighty

I think you are confusing "BEST" with "MOST POPULAR"... I mean McDonalds has been around forever and certainly the formula has changed over the years and it's popularity has grown...

 

To me that stuff tastes like dog shit... not that I have tried it but it is what I would imagine it would taste like.

That's a bad argument.

People go to mcdonalds because it's cheaper and quicker than most options. Not because of the quality. WoW is offering you their product of the SAME price (and in some cases a higher price), and no real change in customer service. When the price is the same, then people aren't flocking to something because it's more popular, they are flocking to it because they personally find it better.

Actually, your whole "it's good because it's popular" argument is the bad argument (http://www.logicalfallacies.info/relevance/appeals/appeal-to-popularity/), because it is a logical fallacy to appeal to popularity, so let's not be illogical like you have been, all right?

Except I never once said it was good because it was popular. So I don't know what your response was supposed to prove.

  Ramanadjinn

Elite Member

Joined: 8/08/11
Posts: 1236

7/29/13 11:45:23 PM#38
Originally posted by KBishop
 

That's a bad argument.

People go to mcdonalds because it's cheaper and quicker than most options. Not because of the quality. WoW is offering you their product of the SAME price (and in some cases a higher price), and no real change in customer service. When the price is the same, then people aren't flocking to something because it's more popular, they are flocking to it because they personally find it better.

 

One commonly accepted definition of quality in many circles - Quality is inversely proportional to variability.

I can go to Mcdonald's in Canada, Florida, and Texas and get the same burger every time.  That is a quality product.  McDonald's is pretty much a leading authority on what a quality food product is.  It might not be the best burger in the world by everyone's standard, but I know for a fact when I roll into mcdonalds what my one dollar is going to get me.

Wow I wouldn't consider to be quite the paragon of quality McDonalds is, but still.. it is reliable and since 2005 every other year or two when I go to play WOW I get exactly what I expected to get.  

  killahh

Novice Member

Joined: 8/25/04
Posts: 454

As famous as the unknown soldier

7/29/13 11:50:32 PM#39
Of course wow is popular, face it, it has been designed ever since vanilla wow so that you don't need brains to be the best. And there's alot of people out there that are not that, um mentally motivated, if you get my drift.

Gonada Dahung,over 20 years of mmorpg's and counting....Please Lord, let someone make a game that had all the awesomeness of UO, EQ and EVE...

  Masterfuzzfuzz

Novice Member

Joined: 6/30/13
Posts: 176

7/29/13 11:55:26 PM#40
Originally posted by killahh
Of course wow is popular, face it, it has been designed ever since vanilla wow so that you don't need brains to be the best. And there's alot of people out there that are not that, um mentally motivated, if you get my drift.

Yup. It's target demo is the mass of 12-16 year olds that have nothing but time but dont want to put in any real work after school.

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