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EverQuest Next

EverQuest Next 

General Discussion  » Massively: "...SOE wouldn't want to cannibalize its other games for customers and instead will look at reaching out and grabbing new ones"

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  Bidwood

Novice Member

Joined: 2/26/13
Posts: 555

 
OP  7/21/13 3:06:17 PM#1

I find this article from Guthrie at Massively really interesting. He actually saw the game, and is basically telling us EQN will be very different from EQ1 and EQ2 and will probably attract a new playerbase instead of cannibalizing the older games. This is significant because he's saying he can't really spoil it, but is giving us hints by repeating stuff that was said by SOE devs in the past.

 

"What EQN is not

Although it's third in line in the EQ franchise, EverQuest Next is not a sequel. Both Smedley and Georgeson have spoken on multiple occasions about how the EQN versions that were originally turning out more like EQ 2.5 or EQ III were scrapped. Even the title itself, EverQuest Next, draws focus away from the game's being just a rehash of its predecessors. In the aforementioned PAX East interview, Georgeson teased us with the line that EverQuest Next is "an MMO you've never played before" -- that it's "a completely different critter."

In that light, will this next version sound the death knell for EQ and EQII? Even before EQN's big shreenshot-blowing-up reveal at the convention, Georgeson addressed this concern by assuring that "EQN is not being designed to replace those games." And when I talked with him at SOE Live 2012, he reaffirmed that stance, pointing out that the newest sibling to the franchise is such a different game and fans are so loyal to their respective games that there is little worry of a mass migration. That certainly makes sense: If you've been a player of EverQuest for the almost 15 years or EverQuest II for nearly nine, would you seriously just drop everything and switch? It's not as likely. Besides, it stands to reason that SOE wouldn't want to cannibalize its other games for customers and instead will look at reaching out and grabbing new ones.

And finally, what it's not is here yet! It's going to be a long two weeks until we can all hear and see what's coming. So until then, let's let your speculations fly!"

 

Source: http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/07/20/tattered-notebook-speculations-last-stand-for-everquest-next/

 

So basically from a business standpoint they're aiming for a new share of the market as opposed to just migrating their existing playerbase to a new game.

 

In what ways do you see this appealing to a whole other group of players and not digging into the populations of EQ1 and EQ2?

 

For me, it's making the game a TRUE sandbox with as few restrictions on play as possible. It won't appeal as much to the folks who prefer something more scripted and predictable because other players will have so much control over the game.

  Telondariel

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/11/10
Posts: 921

7/21/13 3:14:06 PM#2

Well, in 2 weeks we'll get to see for ourselves exactly what type of market they are trying to attract.

 

Even though there is a reasonable assumption the dedicated, established communities that have remained with EQ and EQ2 will remain, there is a very large population of old EQ and EQ2 players that simply grew tired and moved on to other games.  If EQN is attractive enough, I see this population jumping into this newest version of Norrath.  I count myself as part of that group.

 

  Dejoblue

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/11
Posts: 295

I'll give them heroics...and when everyone is super...no one will be.

7/21/13 3:18:49 PM#3

One can assume that there is synergy, that the communities of MMO players are sick of their game, that they have become dated and that they want to move on into a "sandbox" and that EQNext is that game.

Either way I think SOE wins. They get a new game with new customers or they get a new game with old customers.

If EQ and EQ2 players want a themepark there are already 3 with SOE EQ, EQ2 and Vanguard. When you stick with a  game for 15 years that has horrible graphics by today's standards and with the advent of MINECRAFT being so popular, why bother making a shiny NEW Everquest Themepark? Make something new get new customers.

The only risk is tremendous backlash if it comes out and EQ fans are really disappointed. But if you are going for a new market anyway perhaps it doenst matter to them, go back to EQ or EQ2 or Vanguard and this new game will populate itself.

  User Deleted
7/21/13 3:26:49 PM#4

Well... considering that EQ pretty much has the people with a hardon for what is called "PVE sandbox" and EQ 2 has the people with a mind for themepark grind... if they're going for new people... there's only really one way they can go for a completely untapped market...

  Bidwood

Novice Member

Joined: 2/26/13
Posts: 555

 
OP  7/21/13 3:30:34 PM#5
Originally posted by Dihoru

Well... considering that EQ pretty much has the people with a hardon for what is called "PVE sandbox" and EQ 2 has the people with a mind for themepark grind... if they're going for new people... there's only really one way they can go for a completely untapped market...

I'm convinced world PVP will be a pillar of EQN.

 

The reason I brought up the Massively article is to show that SOE doesn't need the franchise's fanbase.  They can really afford to do things differently to grab a different share of the market.

 

Now it's not just the devs who said that months ago, but a reviewer that actually saw the game choosing to highlight the fact that this will be different and may not be the existing fanbase's cup of tea.

  User Deleted
7/21/13 3:34:41 PM#6
Originally posted by Bidwood
Originally posted by Dihoru

Well... considering that EQ pretty much has the people with a hardon for what is called "PVE sandbox" and EQ 2 has the people with a mind for themepark grind... if they're going for new people... there's only really one way they can go for a completely untapped market...

I'm convinced world PVP will be a pillar of EQN.

 

The reason I brought up the Massively article is to show that SOE doesn't need the franchise's fanbase.  They can really afford to do things differently to grab a different share of the market.

Can we avoid using the term "pillar" ? it sounds like something important and in an MMO the sum of its parts is most important not individual components (PVP, PVE, crafting, exploration, capacity to adventure, to have emergent gameplay experiences, if you make all these your game's pillars, which they all should be in an ideal world because lack of any of them is extremely bad for a game's health, then in truth you do not have pillars, you have a balanced game).

  Telondariel

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/11/10
Posts: 921

7/21/13 3:41:04 PM#7
Originally posted by Bidwood
Originally posted by Dihoru

Well... considering that EQ pretty much has the people with a hardon for what is called "PVE sandbox" and EQ 2 has the people with a mind for themepark grind... if they're going for new people... there's only really one way they can go for a completely untapped market...

I'm convinced world PVP will be a pillar of EQN.

 

The reason I brought up the Massively article is to show that SOE doesn't need the franchise's fanbase.  They can really afford to do things differently to grab a different share of the market.

 

Now it's not just the devs who said that months ago, but a reviewer that actually saw the game choosing to highlight the fact that this will be different and may not be the existing fanbase's cup of tea.

I think, given EQ's history, it's a given that there will be one or two dedicated PvP servers to cater to that community. 

 

But, to the trend this thread is leaning towards, haven't you talked about this many times before?  Not only in other threads, but in threads you've created?  I think that old drum is a bit tired.  Maybe rest it beside that dead horse that keeps getting kicked.

 

  Grakulen

Staff Writer

Joined: 3/07/12
Posts: 440

7/21/13 3:45:44 PM#8
Originally posted by Dihoru

Can we avoid using the term "pillar" ? 

Last dude I knew that said "pillar" all the time was Steve Spagnuolo when he was the head coach of the St. Louis Rams through 2009 to 2012. We see how well that turned out.

  Xthos

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/18/10
Posts: 2651

7/21/13 3:46:05 PM#9

Well, just to point it out, they also said it would be familiar to EQ fans, so different/familiar, we can pick sentences here and there, apply meaning and such, but we will not know, until they show us.

 

The people leaving EQ/EQ2, can also just be from the standpoint that people are invested in those games, you don't want to just pick up and move on from something if you have been playing it 15/9 years...

 

So I am not reading much into this 'different' thing myself, not till I see it.  Different would be some type of RvR, non-instanced housing, just about anything.

 

I am pretty speculated out, I just want it to come, to see, and to say I hate it or it looks interesting.  I am ready for both.

 

  Clywd

Novice Member

Joined: 8/28/10
Posts: 248

7/21/13 3:47:57 PM#10
They also said that they want a successful Mmorpg that can be played for years. So world pvp as a pillar is out of the discussion, I assume. But sandbox features will be there for sure.

Currently playing: EQ1
Ruptura Draconis
Waiting for Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen

  SavageHorizon

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/14/13
Posts: 1578

7/21/13 3:48:25 PM#11
Originally posted by Telondariel
Originally posted by Bidwood
Originally posted by Dihoru

Well... considering that EQ pretty much has the people with a hardon for what is called "PVE sandbox" and EQ 2 has the people with a mind for themepark grind... if they're going for new people... there's only really one way they can go for a completely untapped market...

I'm convinced world PVP will be a pillar of EQN.

 

The reason I brought up the Massively article is to show that SOE doesn't need the franchise's fanbase.  They can really afford to do things differently to grab a different share of the market.

 

Now it's not just the devs who said that months ago, but a reviewer that actually saw the game choosing to highlight the fact that this will be different and may not be the existing fanbase's cup of tea.

I think, given EQ's history, it's a given that there will be one or two dedicated PvP servers to cater to that community. 

 

But, to the trend this thread is leaning towards, haven't you talked about this many times before?  Not only in other threads, but in threads you've created?  I think that old drum is a bit tired.  Maybe rest it beside that dead horse that keeps getting kicked.

 

I agree, this OP and others continue to beat that old drum, i'm going to enjoy that drum getting broken.

EQN will have PVP, anyone would be dumb not to think so considering both EQ&EQ2  have it. What makes me laugh is people really thinking that PVP is going to be the main focus of  EQN, like PVE will now take a back seat.

 

And as for this "sandbox" hype, well i have a strong feeling that Smeds version of a sandbox is more akin to a sandpark. I don't care how many awards massively or this site have given the game, these are the same people who gave swtor glowing reports.

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  Bidwood

Novice Member

Joined: 2/26/13
Posts: 555

 
OP  7/21/13 3:48:57 PM#12

Originally posted by Dihoru

Originally posted by Bidwood
Originally posted by Dihoru

Well... considering that EQ pretty much has the people with a hardon for what is called "PVE sandbox" and EQ 2 has the people with a mind for themepark grind... if they're going for new people... there's only really one way they can go for a completely untapped market...

I'm convinced world PVP will be a pillar of EQN.

 

The reason I brought up the Massively article is to show that SOE doesn't need the franchise's fanbase.  They can really afford to do things differently to grab a different share of the market.

Can we avoid using the term "pillar" ? it sounds like something important and in an MMO the sum of its parts is most important not individual components (PVP, PVE, crafting, exploration, capacity to adventure, to have emergent gameplay experiences, if you make all these your game's pillars, which they all should be in an ideal world because lack of any of them is extremely bad for a game's health, then in truth you do not have pillars, you have a balanced game).


Originally posted by Telondariel

Originally posted by Bidwood
Originally posted by Dihoru

Well... considering that EQ pretty much has the people with a hardon for what is called "PVE sandbox" and EQ 2 has the people with a mind for themepark grind... if they're going for new people... there's only really one way they can go for a completely untapped market...

I'm convinced world PVP will be a pillar of EQN.

 

The reason I brought up the Massively article is to show that SOE doesn't need the franchise's fanbase.  They can really afford to do things differently to grab a different share of the market.

 

Now it's not just the devs who said that months ago, but a reviewer that actually saw the game choosing to highlight the fact that this will be different and may not be the existing fanbase's cup of tea.

I think, given EQ's history, it's a given that there will be one or two dedicated PvP servers to cater to that community. 

 

But, to the trend this thread is leaning towards, haven't you talked about this many times before?  Not only in other threads, but in threads you've created?  I think that old drum is a bit tired.  Maybe rest it beside that dead horse that keeps getting kicked.

 

@dihoru - the term "pillar" is important because Georgeson used it in an interview to talk about the things the dev team needed to get right in order to create the "holy grail" MMO.

 

Usually  a building has multiple pillars, but the idea is that they are all an important part of the design and if you take one out then you compromise the integrity of the structure. I believe PVP has to be a pillar, otherwise you end up with 20 per cent PVP servers that are an afterthought. And they don't work because the game isn't designed to make them work.

 

@Telondariel - This thread isn't about PVP. It's about EQN being different from EQ1 and EQ2. Dihoru brought up PVP and I commented because it's a topic I care about. I'm not going to stop doing that.

  Bidwood

Novice Member

Joined: 2/26/13
Posts: 555

 
OP  7/21/13 3:54:21 PM#13
Originally posted by Xthos

Well, just to point it out, they also said it would be familiar to EQ fans, so different/familiar, we can pick sentences here and there, apply meaning and such, but we will not know, until they show us.

 

The people leaving EQ/EQ2, can also just be from the standpoint that people are invested in those games, you don't want to just pick up and move on from something if you have been playing it 15/9 years...

 

So I am not reading much into this 'different' thing myself, not till I see it.  Different would be some type of RvR, non-instanced housing, just about anything.

 

I am pretty speculated out, I just want it to come, to see, and to say I hate it or it looks interesting.  I am ready for both.

 

I hear you, but Massively saw the game and wrote the article I referred to in the first post. Half of the article is about the fact that this will be a very different game.

  Gallus85

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/13/11
Posts: 1115

7/21/13 3:56:33 PM#14
Originally posted by Bidwood
Originally posted by Xthos

Well, just to point it out, they also said it would be familiar to EQ fans, so different/familiar, we can pick sentences here and there, apply meaning and such, but we will not know, until they show us.

 

The people leaving EQ/EQ2, can also just be from the standpoint that people are invested in those games, you don't want to just pick up and move on from something if you have been playing it 15/9 years...

 

So I am not reading much into this 'different' thing myself, not till I see it.  Different would be some type of RvR, non-instanced housing, just about anything.

 

I am pretty speculated out, I just want it to come, to see, and to say I hate it or it looks interesting.  I am ready for both.

 

I hear you, but Massively saw the game and wrote the article I referred to in the first post. Half of the article is about the fact that this will be a very different game.

Yup, it will be very different.

And it's only going to have PVP for the people who want it.  It's not going to be forced on the entire player base.

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  Bidwood

Novice Member

Joined: 2/26/13
Posts: 555

 
OP  7/21/13 4:00:12 PM#15
Originally posted by Gallus85
Originally posted by Bidwood
Originally posted by Xthos

Well, just to point it out, they also said it would be familiar to EQ fans, so different/familiar, we can pick sentences here and there, apply meaning and such, but we will not know, until they show us.

 

The people leaving EQ/EQ2, can also just be from the standpoint that people are invested in those games, you don't want to just pick up and move on from something if you have been playing it 15/9 years...

 

So I am not reading much into this 'different' thing myself, not till I see it.  Different would be some type of RvR, non-instanced housing, just about anything.

 

I am pretty speculated out, I just want it to come, to see, and to say I hate it or it looks interesting.  I am ready for both.

 

I hear you, but Massively saw the game and wrote the article I referred to in the first post. Half of the article is about the fact that this will be a very different game.

Yup, it will be very different.

And it's only going to have PVP for the people who want it.  It's not going to be forced on the entire player base.

Okay. So in what other ways do you see it appealing to a new market instead of their existing fanbase? Let's move the discussion there.

  SavageHorizon

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/14/13
Posts: 1578

7/21/13 4:00:55 PM#16
Originally posted by Gallus85
Originally posted by Bidwood
Originally posted by Xthos

Well, just to point it out, they also said it would be familiar to EQ fans, so different/familiar, we can pick sentences here and there, apply meaning and such, but we will not know, until they show us.

 

The people leaving EQ/EQ2, can also just be from the standpoint that people are invested in those games, you don't want to just pick up and move on from something if you have been playing it 15/9 years...

 

So I am not reading much into this 'different' thing myself, not till I see it.  Different would be some type of RvR, non-instanced housing, just about anything.

 

I am pretty speculated out, I just want it to come, to see, and to say I hate it or it looks interesting.  I am ready for both.

 

I hear you, but Massively saw the game and wrote the article I referred to in the first post. Half of the article is about the fact that this will be a very different game.

Yup, it will be very different.

And it's only going to have PVP for the people who want it.  It's not going to be forced on the entire player base.

Ah but that's not what you really want is it, you won't be happy with separate pvp servers because that means the game is not built around PVP.

No one has a problem with the game having PVP on separate servers, right?

Please don't give me one of your "deal with it" lines

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  Iadien

Novice Member

Joined: 2/12/04
Posts: 648

7/21/13 4:01:15 PM#17
  Gallus85

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/13/11
Posts: 1115

7/21/13 4:08:08 PM#18
Originally posted by SavageHorizon
Originally posted by Gallus85
Originally posted by Bidwood
Originally posted by Xthos

Well, just to point it out, they also said it would be familiar to EQ fans, so different/familiar, we can pick sentences here and there, apply meaning and such, but we will not know, until they show us.

 

The people leaving EQ/EQ2, can also just be from the standpoint that people are invested in those games, you don't want to just pick up and move on from something if you have been playing it 15/9 years...

 

So I am not reading much into this 'different' thing myself, not till I see it.  Different would be some type of RvR, non-instanced housing, just about anything.

 

I am pretty speculated out, I just want it to come, to see, and to say I hate it or it looks interesting.  I am ready for both.

 

I hear you, but Massively saw the game and wrote the article I referred to in the first post. Half of the article is about the fact that this will be a very different game.

Yup, it will be very different.

And it's only going to have PVP for the people who want it.  It's not going to be forced on the entire player base.

Ah but that's not what you really want is it, you won't be happy with separate pvp servers because that means the game is not built around PVP.

No one has a problem with the game having PVP on separate servers, right?

Please don't give me one of your "deal with it" lines

I'm a PVPer, but I also enjoy PVE.  Nothing stops me from enjoying a good Legend of Zelda or TES game.  I also enjoy all sorts of PVP games (FPS, RTS, MMO, etc)

But there are many games that have shown you can make a great, professional and well thought out pvp game without sacrificing PVE quality. GW2 is a great example.

I know the EQN dev team and SOE can produce a great flagship title that will appeal to both PVEers and PVPers, and will be doing so without a doubt.  If your happiness in EQN is going to rely on having EQN as a completely PVP experience, or a PVE mixed PVP experience for the entire player base, don't bother tuning into the SOE livestreams.

Start looking elsewhere for something to look forward.

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  Bidwood

Novice Member

Joined: 2/26/13
Posts: 555

 
OP  7/21/13 4:35:35 PM#19
Originally posted by Iadien

Georgeson mentioned that this game will be very different from EQ1/EQ2. Let me see if I can find the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dt-MEgLXKXs&list=PLSCa57dkQP45BjjPLXtBf2_cbCjCFmyTS&feature=player_detailpage#t=277s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dt-MEgLXKXs&list=PLSCa57dkQP45BjjPLXtBf2_cbCjCFmyTS&feature=player_detailpage#t=499s

Thanks for this!

 

I typed out the part that really stood out to me:

 

"When we started working on EQN, before I was involved in it, they were essentially honing the MMO model. The MMO model that we all know and love, that we played and played and played. And we realized after a year or so of development that that kind of direction really wasn't going to hit it out of the park - wasn't going to be something that people really wanted to talk about and was going to make people super excited. It was going to be another MMO.



So we realized that we couldn't keep going down that road. So what we did was we threw it all away, and that was about a year and a little bit ago, and at that point we brought in different talent that was, I don't know, original thinkers I guess.



We sat down and we made big old lists of what we loved about MMOs, what we hated about MMOs, and then this shorter list that was all the holy grails that we always wanted to conquor.



And we kind of tore down everything about the MMOs, and we picked and picked and picked at it until we found pillars that we thought were something that people would kind of lose their mind about. That they would look at it and they would go 'They're doing what?!?!' And then they'd want to participate in it."

  Margulis

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/14/08
Posts: 1643

7/21/13 4:36:57 PM#20
SOE devs have said that themselves, it's not like he's just coming up with that since he saw a preview. 
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