Trending Games | World of Warcraft | Warframe | Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn | Project Gorgon

    Facebook Twitter YouTube
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:3,027,659 Users Online:0
Games:843  Posts:6,482,888
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online AD2460 ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Angry Birds Epic Anime Ninja Anime Pirates Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord 2 Archlord X Armored Warfare Ascend: Hand of Kul Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Bionic Marine Command Online Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blackguards 2 Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodborne Bloodlines Champions Boot Hill Heroes Borderlands 2 Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel Bound by Flame Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Bravada Bravely Default Bravely Second Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Cast & Conquer Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Child of Light Chroma Squad Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crowfall Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Cyberpunk 2077 Céiron Wars
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark Souls 2 Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Dead Island Dead Island 2 Dead Island: Riptide Deco Online Deep Down Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Divinity: Original Sin Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Age: Inquisition Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Fin Soup Dragon Heart Online Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Drakengard 3 Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dungeon of the Endless Dying Light Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthlock: Festival of Magic Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Fable Legends Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout 4 Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Fearless Fantasy Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy Type-0 HD Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken Uprising Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
GRAV GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods Rush Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Hand of Fate Haven & Hearth Hawken Heart Forth Alicia Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes & Legends: Conquerors of Kolhar Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Atlan Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Immune Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online Kill Strain King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings Era Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online Kyn L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Redemption LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Grimrock 2 Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Lichdom: Battlemage Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lords of the Fallen Lords of the Fallen 2 Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance Mass Effect 4 MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms Might & Magic X: Legacy MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Hunter 4: Ultimate Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Moonrise Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mythborne Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Necropolis Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Nova Genesis Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Oort Online Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Overwatch Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Persona V Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pillars of Eternity Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints Pokémon X and Y PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Prodigy Project Blackout Project Gorgon Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Project Zomboid Puzzle Pirates Quest for Infamy Quickhit Football
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rail Nation Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of Sierra Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Rebel Galaxy Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Risen 3: Titan Lords Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sacred 3 Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Chance Heroes Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow Realms Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowgate Shadowrun Chronicles Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian South Park: The Stick of Truth Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Conflict Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Starbound Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Stormthrone Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Styx: Master of Shadows Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Coast Legends Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
TERA TS Online TUG Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Terraria Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Banner Saga The Banner Saga 2 The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Epic Might The Hammers End The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing 2 The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Torment: Tides of Numenera Total Domination Transformers Universe Transistor Transverse Trapped Dead: Lockdown Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Triad Wars Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utherous Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Warflare Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune Wasteland 2 WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warriors World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenoblade Chronicles 3D Xenoblade Chronicles: X Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik Discussion Forums

General Discussion

General Discussion 

The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Has the idea that innovation is required for MMOs hurt the genre?

7 Pages « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 » Search
125 posts found

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 7144

7/21/13 1:25:18 PM#21
Originally posted by Distopia

I agree here as well, there are many who want those games back along with the original design and vision they started with.

No one person is in a place to speak for more than themselves really.  He can claim incidental anecdotal numbers, but they are meaningless without being substantiated.  The market would be the disagreeing factor here as proof.  There aren't enough people collectively that want those games along with the original design otherwise they would be flourishing as they stood.  A publisher is going to follow the money and there aren't enough of him, even if he claims large numbers, to fund his vision.

I can agree more that there could be a larger number that want the original vision because that is a lot more of a vague and amorphous concept to buy into.  With "the vision" we all get to have our own fantasies about what that meant and means.  Since it's not clearly defined we get to think of those things of past we loved, pruning the stuff we didn't like, and plug that into what we imagine the perfect "vision" to be.  It's sort of like hindsight Hype, or the hype that could yet be.  I think it is a major factor in why new games get hyped because people take that unrealistic fantasy vision and project that onto the possibility of the new game.

What I think people really want is to experience that sort of new found wonder and joy they had with their early games.  They mistakenly assume that replicating those features from their bygone game will bring back that same experience.  It's like "anti-innovation".  Just like innovation for the sake of itself isn't going to do the genre justice, neither will "anti-innovation" just for the sake of the "good old days".

In short, systems need to match the game the developers are trying to create.  Innovation should be the result of them making their game but not having an existing mechanic to evolve or reuse.


Novice Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2604

7/21/13 1:59:38 PM#22
Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by Distopia

I agree here as well, there are many who want those games back along with the original design and vision they started with.

No one person is in a place to speak for more than themselves really.

And if society followed that rule nothing would ever get discussed. There is empirical evidence backing up my statements, so would you please stop derailing?


Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 5695

OP  7/21/13 2:43:05 PM#23
Originally posted by Vezlin

To OP: May I ask what innovations you're seeing in particular that have come with the costs of other features or quality, and what specific things were impacted by the implementation of these innovations?

I think that without innovation, the genre would be dead and hopeless, going by the word's definition of changing something established. We'd be getting the exact same game over and over again--and we already know how well that goes when we see countless X clones getting pumped out and closed off or resorting to desperate measures to stay afloat, such as WoW styled F2Ps or another isometric grinder. New combat, new quest systems, and new means of player interaction are what I hope to see more of in coming game.

That said, I also think there are some innovations and design choices being made for the worse. A lot of MMOs have been devolving into races to max level to run gear treadmills, and games have been designed to spoonfeed these rewards faster and easier to keep a certain, albeit large number of players happy, and a lot of 'innovations' have been set up to add to this. Easier bosses, shorter dungeons, smaller party sizes, less teamwork needed, and the ability get comparable or alternative rewards through soloable dailies have appeal, but it's hit a point where the entire game is a chore rather than an experience. Almost every quest and mob filling plenty of games now is designed to be soloable at level, by everyone. Your class does not matter because it's designed for you in mind, your skills usually don't matter because it's designed for them in time, and your gear has been handed to you by all the stuff you were 'supposed' to do to get to the point. The gear-treadmill system has us handed a key to open a box with a key in it to open another box with a key in it to... You get the point.

What MMOs have strayed from innovating towards are things that they're best at; creating virtual worlds, and building and rewarding the development of player skills and abilities rather than +5 to win, one of the most critical skills being teamwork, and the reason why innovations can still be good is because such can still be innovated towards. Public events, dynamic quests, whatever-you-want-to-call-them have been making worlds more alive; action combat has put some of the responsibility of playing the game well back in players' hands; this sandbox renaissance we seem to be heading towards allows communities to breathe life into their online worlds instead of just jogging through them. 

Some games have gotten some things right, and those are lessons that should be learned from and, if they still work, used in new games, but there is a lot that needs to be improved in the genre, which means plenty of reason for innovation to keep on going.

I'll explain what I mean by Tradeoffs. 2 games recently implemted a new kind of questing innovation. (I'm aware they aren't the 1st, just the most known) Rift and GW2. GW2 for better of for worse brought some of the most innovative concepts to life. Many many things that hadn't been done before, were, or if they were done, GW2 did them in a new way. If we look at one of the greatest innovations the game brought it was Dynamic Events. The concept was to have a world that adapted to the presence of the player and respond accordingly. I feel that while the system still has room to evolve, ANET did a really good job with what they did. But there are limitations. Tremendous developmental overhead means you are much more limited in the number of DEs than you are in the number of say Quest Hubs. So there are fewer. Therefore they must be repeatable. And many players will have to do them over and over. This in itself isn't bad. They are fun. But with this set up, it becomes very difficult to advance the lore of the game.  A DE is very action oriented and doesn't tell much of a story outside it's own limited context. You see what's going on, you can get an immediate snapshot of the situation and recent events pertaining to it, but you can't get a history of the world from them. But you can with traditional quests. So ANET came up with another innovation to compensate for this.  The Personal Story. Which by many happens to be considered one of the poorer innovations brought by GW2. Yet it (or something like it) is necessary in order to have the liberal use of DEs.  Not to hammer GW2 for this either. I can see a very similar effect in Rift. Rift implemented a system last year in the form of Instant Adventures. The game has a public raid group that is given autospawning quests. You basically fall into an ongoing quest chain that takes you throughout the zone in a non stop very active sort of play. It too lacks the ability to properly advance the lore, the story, the game or to give specific rewards to players at specific times in their development.

So while most of these new innovations have contributed to the "rush rush" sense of MMO gaming, that doesn't always mean it created a better overall gaming experience. There are always new downsides to deal with that had never had to be dealt with previously, when bringing new innovations.


Novice Member

Joined: 2/03/13
Posts: 166

7/21/13 2:59:56 PM#24
Originally posted by Ramanadjinn
Originally posted by Jakzy
Short answer, YES.


I would probably also add "and no."


to the OP : does it need to have something completely new? Maybe, depends on how it is implemented.

I sometimes make spelling and grammar errors but I don't pretend it's because I'm using a phone


Advanced Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 22588

7/21/13 5:32:05 PM#25

Implementation and polish is probably more important than innovation. Ideas are a dime a dozen (just read this forum). Well made games are much harder to find.

And who says innovation is required?


Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 20140

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

7/21/13 5:40:30 PM#26
Originally posted by nariusseldon

Implementation and polish is probably more important than innovation. Ideas are a dime a dozen (just read this forum). Well made games are much harder to find.

And who says innovation is required?

Well, by some accounts FFXIV ARR has very little in the way of innovation, but loads of polish and is a well made game so we'll get to see how well that turns out.


In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
"I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon


Elite Member

Joined: 6/17/11
Posts: 8339

7/21/13 5:45:18 PM#27

Nope - innovation is something inherent to human desire to advance and improve things, to stop innovation would be against our own nature.



Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/17/13
Posts: 232

PROUD P2P Elitist...

7/21/13 5:46:04 PM#28
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by DavisFlight

If your game does absolutely nothing different, then why play it when people are already invested in the game that you're cloning?

There is so much you can do with MMOs, cloning is just sad to see. Besides, usually they all clone the same thing (W0W) and we're sick of WoW. I was sick of WoW when it launched because it was just EQ but worse. If they cloned a good nuanced game, like UO, that'd be more bearable.


It's stupidity to clone WoW, and themeparks in general.

In other words, only clone the games he likes.... It's an act of stupidity to not cater to him...



Cloning UO, a game which no longer exists, and which many people are unfamiliar with, would seem a whole lot fresher than copying the biggest game in the entire genre, which most people are either playing, or don't want to play, right?

Common sense is lost on some of you.

Uh, you are aware that UO is still alive and kicking and happens to be a subscription game at that. SWG would still be around if not for contractual limitations. WoW copying has been done ad-nauseum and is just giving every developer it's own "chicken sandwich at the drive thru." It's time to quit doing the same thing over and over again expecting all of us to blow money on the same garbage.


Elite Member

Joined: 6/17/11
Posts: 8339

7/21/13 5:53:16 PM#29
Originally posted by Kyleran
Originally posted by nariusseldon

Implementation and polish is probably more important than innovation. Ideas are a dime a dozen (just read this forum). Well made games are much harder to find.

And who says innovation is required?

Well, by some accounts FFXIV ARR has very little in the way of innovation, but loads of polish and is a well made game so we'll get to see how well that turns out.


Here is my prediction for ARR:

It will start off strong, population will peak about 1 week post launch and then slowly decline. 3 months post launch the population will be down to about 70%, and 6 months post launch it will be around 50% from the peak number.

Just my opinion, don't get all bent out of shape over it. 


Elite Member

Joined: 8/13/09
Posts: 6682

"It is double pleasure to deceive the deceiver". - Niccolo Machiavelli

7/21/13 5:53:17 PM#30

the problem with how some companies (and a lot of players) think innovation works is flawed big time... They make a completely generic mmo, then add one feature different than the rest and pretend the game is a revolution of the genre. A lot of mmos do that, then the game doesnt do very well and they wonder why....

If a game company is working on an innovative mmorpg, the innovation MUST come from many different areas of the game. Not just one or two features. If the rest of the main features of the game is generic, the entire game is generic.

That includes questing, opwn world content, instanced content, Mob AI, boss fights, skills, combat, character models, aesthetics, animations, crafting. PvP content, PvE in general. Everything.



Joined: 3/10/10
Posts: 2208

7/21/13 6:03:29 PM#31
No MMO's don't need to innovate.... they just have to take what is currently available and what players like and improve on it, See WoW if you need proof that it works.  OFC there's plenty of innovative stuff in WOW that games have since adopted but you have to get the basics done right before you go off trying to reinvent the wheel.

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/02/08
Posts: 1544

Let em put a slave ring thru u're nose u're prob not going to like where they're taking you. Think.

7/21/13 6:25:48 PM#32
Originally posted by GeezerGamer

Does every MMO that comes out absolutely need to have something in it that's never been done before? ..............................................................


Best console game: DD Dark Arisen. Best mmo: GW2. Best game series ever: The Sims.

  User Deleted
7/21/13 6:50:04 PM#33
Originally posted by GeezerGamer

Does every MMO that comes out absolutely need to have something in it that's never been done before? 


Technically speaking, no it does not. It is kind of ironic too when you look over the manner in which companies market their games, with the term "innovative" or "first" being used quite frequently. Innovation sells (and rightfully so), but players have to look past PR rhetoric to see if it is indeed true innovation. TRION's re-launch of EoN is a good example.


Advanced Member

Joined: 10/13/05
Posts: 1884

7/21/13 7:20:09 PM#34

If it wasn't for DirectX there would be no innovation. They use it to refine what has already been done.

Give ma a game and a feature, I can name a game that had it 10 years ago.


Elite Member

Joined: 5/09/09
Posts: 8557

7/21/13 11:16:55 PM#35
MMORPGs cannot escape the need for a combination of innovative and non-innovative features.
  • Innovation is required because players need to experience new game patterns.  The reason you don't play Tic Tac Toe anymore is its pattern is completely mastered.  When a game's pattern is completely mastered, it ceases to provide fun.  This process happens by degrees, so even in games which aren't completely solved like Tic Tac Toe, you gradually lose interest in old patterns and seek new ones.
  • Non-innovation is required because innovation takes time -- and if every single feature was innovative, you wouldn't have enough dev time to iterate each feature until it was genuinely fun.
  • Non-innovation is important because it represents knowledge.  There are game design equivalents of The Wheel and The Combustion Engine, and to completely reject all pre-existing knowledge of game design would be like trying to completely reinvent every element of an automobile from scratch.  It'd be insane to reject all of that pre-discovered knowledge!  That pre-discovered knowledge isn't innovation.

"Joe stated his case logically and passionately, but his perceived effeminate voice only drew big gales of stupid laughter..." -Idiocracy
"There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance." -Socrates


Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 13648

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

7/22/13 1:34:38 AM#36
Originally posted by GeezerGamer

Does every MMO that comes out absolutely need to have something in it that's never been done before?

As innovation means different things from different perspectives, I will avoid that word and address the question are you've presented it (above) in the body of your post.


Does an MMO need something that has never been done before? No, it doesn't.  It does, however, need to feel like a different experience, which many do for the first 10-30 levels.

There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein


Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5732

7/22/13 5:58:58 AM#37

The genre needs to innovate, not individual MMO's. What I mean by this is that unless the genre takes up innovation it goes nowhere. Too many good ideas have been left by the wayside.

Innovation for an individual MMO has been changed into what's special, what's unique abut the MMO. This is some gimmick like having wings rather than a change to the MMO's gaming systems.

Most of the really big innovation we have seen has been in combining genres. So we have MMOFPS, which blended parts of both types of game. This is not just MMO's though, how much do you think FPS are innovating? E3's big FPS moment was a skyscraper being brought down, it looked amazing, but it was hardly innovative.

At the moment nearly all MMO's are themeparks with sandbox elements. It is rather like building every house from the same plans, lots of terraced houses. But I am not talking about just that, everything from UI's, to action combat, to the levelling system could be a candidate for something truly new.


Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6496

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

7/22/13 6:30:01 AM#38

I think "games need innovation" is just another way of saying "been there, done that", right?

An admission of too much playing games, essentially. But rather than change us, we demand that the industry changes.

"I've been playing computer RPG's since 1983 or so. But oh no, couldn't be me that's the issue. Burned out? No way!"

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.


Novice Member

Joined: 8/15/04
Posts: 355

7/22/13 6:41:39 AM#39
To me, innovation in and of itself means little. What makes a game good is when developers find or create systems that work with each other and with that particular world as a whole. Whether the mechanic is borrowed and reskinned to fit that lore and that world or created from scratch doesn't matter nearly as much as how well that particular implementation contributes to the overall feel of the game. If all developers are doing is cut and paste with no adaptation at all, then that becomes problematic, but if they take the time to make well used systems work in their game, that just means that they have that much more time and resources to make the game as a whole better. In the end, innovation is not just about the base systems, but how they are combined and how they interact with each other to create an experience greater than the sum of the individual parts.

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/26/06
Posts: 813

7/22/13 6:44:13 AM#40

I think we need to take a step back and see what exactly makes us want to play MMORPG games.

So in a sense, innovations aren't even necessary. However I think evolution is necesary.

In short, yes I think innovation hurt the genre. It's stupid. It's like saying: you know what, we had icecream for quite some time now. Let's innovate and mix it with pizza...or whatever.

I don't want that. I want icecream masters to think about why I like icecream, and build further on it to make it better. Not have them mix it up with something else I like.

7 Pages « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 » Search