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EverQuest Next

EverQuest Next 

General Discussion  » I hope this game isn't "fun"

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83 posts found
  DaezAster

Novice Member

Joined: 6/18/12
Posts: 789

7/20/13 1:53:42 PM#41
Well from what i've heard this will be a f2p game so they will be going for a large playerbase as apposed to niche so they can make money. With that in mind I think they will go for  "fun" as thats what most people/gamers like, action. Now I for one lean towards the twitch action style as I came up more on street fighter than d&d but  I understand why people like one, the other, or both. I hope it meets your expectations but I'm reminded of a saying "desire leads to suffering". Hope you get the game you want though op.  Will be interesting to see how this turns out as all I've seen is some concept art that has already seemed to raise some controversy amongst players.
  Karble

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/13/09
Posts: 669

I play therefor I am

7/20/13 2:29:15 PM#42

There are some games you can play for a few weeks and will have done everything and seen everything there is. Others may take 2 months or more.

 

I am looking for a game that has the ability to last a long time and provide me with hundreds of hours of enjoyment.

As others have mentioned, there are different types of "fun" for every gamer. Some are totally satisfied with a few games of solitaire. Others need something with hand eye coordination so they will do some pinball or fighting games. Next you have those interested in strategy and planning, large group and community and much more. They are the oldschool mmo player.

Obviously there are many degrees within this structure. But the point is that without spending much time in a gaming world learning the dungeons and encounters, sometimes taking a week or longer just to break into an area a bit and mentally map where drop offs are or slippery ledges or possible named spawning locations. This is just the initial portion of pug grouping. Then the raid level progression comes into play and a whole different set of dynamics must be learned for encounters so the raid can operate as one, with each person filling specific rolls.

This was EQ and could also be EQ Next. I think EQ Next will add many more layers to what was already a great game. This whole sandbox portion is the most interesting part to me. UO was the most sandbox I have ever played and it was very fun in it's time. If they can somehow provide as much versatility in EQ and keep EQ's version of "Fun" intact, and then crank that "fun" up another 4 notches with this sandbox portion, I will be a happy camper.

  TheHavok

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/13/04
Posts: 2421

"Free crack and everybody gets laid."

7/20/13 2:42:16 PM#43
Wat...I don't even....
  Seventhprophet

Novice Member

Joined: 7/19/13
Posts: 6

 
OP  7/20/13 3:29:49 PM#44
I'm glad some people got where I was going with that. Obviously everyone wants a fun game. I just think developers forget that the player base that created the community WAS having fun with systems in place. We have other game options for high speed, no-thought action.
  ste2000

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/28/04
Posts: 4726

7/20/13 3:36:46 PM#45
Originally posted by TheHavok
Wat...I don't even....

You need to read between the lines.

The OP didn't meant that the game has to be boring.......................just not the SWTOR kind of "fun"

To understand what I mean go back before SWTOR release and check how many people were having "fun"..........then check how many people are playing the game now 

  Holophonist

Elite Member

Joined: 2/15/09
Posts: 2014

7/20/13 3:45:42 PM#46

+1 OP.

 

The more games have been streamlined and homogenized, the less deep, rewarding, challenging and most of all SATISFYING they have been.

 

Crappy modern MMO's (the WoW clones et al) are what happens when you cater to the masses. We want X, we want Y.... So much effort was spent on making things pretty and smooth and so little effort was spent on making a good game. So not only do we get bad games, but not people have certain standards set in their mind about how smooth and streamlined games can be. So they want deep well-made games, but also they want them to be streamlined and smooth enough to compare t o the AAA games that primarily focus on those shallow aspects.

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 18985

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

7/20/13 3:56:44 PM#47

Agree with the OP, I look for a return to the days of a bit more challenge, more frustration, sometimes to the point of just pissing you off royally. 

But when you finally overcome that hurdle, it seems much more satisfying to know you succeeded.

Guess I'm looking for an MMORPG the rewards patience and perseverance, which are mostly absent in most modern day mmorpgs.

"In these forums 'honest' seems to be a symonym for 'hates the game just like I do'" - ohioastro
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  ste2000

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/28/04
Posts: 4726

7/20/13 3:58:47 PM#48
Originally posted by Kyleran

Agree with the OP, I look for a return to the days of a bit more challenge, more frustration, sometimes to the point of just pissing you off royally. 

But when you finally overcome that hurdle, it seems much more satisfying to know you succeeded.

Guess I'm looking for an MMORPG the rewards patience and perseverance, which are mostly absent in most modern day mmorpgs.

That's what the OP meant, and I agree with it.

  User Deleted
7/20/13 4:09:55 PM#49

I think there is too much emphasis on combat systems currently. Its not so much the type of combat, but the fact that none of the other systems which make an mmo complete even get a fraction of the development time as combat. We as gamer's really aren't left with a lot of engaging gameplay options so it feels more like a one and done type console experience.

I think there is absolutely a demand a strong presence for that type of mmo. But I also think that there are a lot of gamers that get discouraged trying to find a new mmo that is not like that.

  pb1285n

Novice Member

Joined: 1/28/06
Posts: 506

7/20/13 4:52:11 PM#50
Despite its many many flaws, Teras combat is fantastic. The endgame required coordination, skill, and a deep understanding of your class and abilities. They found a way to keep everyone involved in combat without moving away from the trinity, and the slightest hesitation from one party member could spell defeat. No game can even comes close to what Tera offers with its combat. Too bad the rest of the game is shallow and dull.
  Grailer

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/13/06
Posts: 819

7/20/13 5:10:19 PM#51

I would suggest the combat will be very similar to EQ2 .

 

Why break something that isn't broken .

 

 

  Holophonist

Elite Member

Joined: 2/15/09
Posts: 2014

7/20/13 5:33:22 PM#52
Originally posted by pb1285n
Despite its many many flaws, Teras combat is fantastic. The endgame required coordination, skill, and a deep understanding of your class and abilities. They found a way to keep everyone involved in combat without moving away from the trinity, and the slightest hesitation from one party member could spell defeat. No game can even comes close to what Tera offers with its combat. Too bad the rest of the game is shallow and dull.

I like Tera's combat too but other games have defintely done it better. My personal favorite is probably Dragon Nest, which is similar to Tera but more fast-paced.

  HabitualFrogStomp

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/04/13
Posts: 220

7/20/13 11:21:56 PM#53

Difficult games these days get the label of having "bad game design" early and often. Like with Vanguard for example, its the opposite of a hand holding game, yet had it launched even without the bugs I assure you that it wouldnt have much more players than it does now. If people really wanted difficulty, it can be had.

Some gamers have just simply become too savvy as well. This isnt the dark ages of EQ where information was precious and the internets was an infant. Information is now so readily available about every quest or mob that within 2 short months of launch practically the whole game from tutorial to end game is intricately cataloged, allowing even the poorest of players to gain valuable insight and at least pretend to know what they're talking about.

If people really wanted to have to earn everything in the game, have a real old school feel and go bald from pulling their hair out, there are options available but most people arent playing these types of games. I wager most of the people who say they want such a challenge will falter quickly and go back to something more palatable like WoW. Theres a very small percentage of us left at this point that truly wants frustration to be a significant part of our gaming time. Thems the facts kids, and they're not going to change anytime soon.

If SOE puts their money where their mouth is, I'll be happy and lets just leave it to that.

  User Deleted
7/20/13 11:40:09 PM#54
Originally posted by Grailer

I would suggest the combat will be very similar to EQ2 .

 

Why break something that isn't broken .

 

 

 

Because they have no intention of shutting down EQ2, and they do not simply want to make a carbon copy of it.

  Four0Six

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/18/11
Posts: 1091

7/20/13 11:48:55 PM#55
Originally posted by Seventhprophet

 

There are many "fun" games out now, with smooth combat and quick action.  These games are awesome, and hold our attention for maybe a month or so.  No matter how novel the mechanics of a games combat system is, the truth is, you'll master it, and It will be boring.  

The last few big name mmorpgs have tried to capture this video game combat style and have succeeded to a small degree.  Combat is fun.  But it comes at a trade off.

Class roles become almost non existent.  Everyone become some form of dps bot, jumping and flipping around for no reason.  So much so that no one really talks any more.  There is no reason to formulate a plan.  No reason to ask about builds or anything really.  You just go, and treat it like the action game that mmorpgs have evolved into.   If things go badly, fingers are blindly pointed.  Where at one time you would know if it were an agro issue or dps or healing style,  Now, outside of seeing someone stand in the fire, people only have a vague notion of what's going wrong when things go bad.  Usually groups disband with finger pointing and "newb" declarations.

 Where in classic MMOs you would see a group change tactics, talk it out, try new things and spend hours in a single dungeon.  It's where friendships and memories were made.  It's a huge reason why we clung to those games for so long.  It kept our interest.  And yes, when you had that many moving parts it took a lot of concentration, skill and awareness in order to succeed.  The more modern games move towards video game controller action,  the more dumbed down and simplistic they get.  If you know how to jump around and click two to four buttons quickly, identify an attack animation and pick the right way to duck, you're a pro.  Outside of that, what does class choice matter at that point?

I'm hoping that the "next" thing in MMOs isn't the same old thing that seem to be destroying them the last couple of years.  Yes those MMOs were fun.  But how many really kept the attention of the masses for any amount of time?

 

 

You are talking about a time where the MMORPG gaming populace was maybe 1/10th what it is now, and there were, what, less than 20 games to play.

 

Different times, Different players.

 

Games cost tons to make, and most of the money comes from those that care not for the games themselves, but the money. Ergo, games get made for the masses to gobble up. So they had best be "fun".

  Gallus85

Elite Member

Joined: 3/13/11
Posts: 1109

7/21/13 1:00:51 AM#56
Originally posted by evilastro
Originally posted by Grailer

I would suggest the combat will be very similar to EQ2 .

 

Why break something that isn't broken .

 

 

 

Because they have no intention of shutting down EQ2, and they do not simply want to make a carbon copy of it.

This^

Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL

  Incomparable

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/11/11
Posts: 754

7/21/13 1:07:33 AM#57
Originally posted by onlinenow25

Troll? But I'll Bite.

Every MMO that has kept peoples attention has been 'fun'.  What your describing is a quick fix.  The so called failed MMOs with action combat are anything but actual failures they are just not your cup of tea.  Fun is mandatory for every game including MMOs. Also the word Fun is subjective by everyone.  What is Fun to you, is not Fun to someone else.

Its also likely that your burned out of MMOs.  Your post screams of needing an addiction and not a fix.

qft

Also, it seems OP wants longevity with long hours invested into the game... but in raids.

So basically he wants an asian grind fest themepark mmos.

I heard final fantasy in the previous iteration was great with that. That is not my cup of tea.

I like a challenge as well, but I also like to feel productive that I accomplish something in that time;

“Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble”

  Draemos

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/10
Posts: 1459

7/21/13 1:09:35 AM#58
Originally posted by Waterlily

I agree really. I like action combat on a console since it tends to be really well done.

The issue with putting it an mmo is that it will not be as good and action combat kills socialising since it's a button mashing fest. GW2 and Tera is the opposite of what EQ was about, they're console games. 

I hope EQNext has tactical group gameplay, although since it might come to PS4 I won't get my hopes up too much.

 

Gw2 and especially Tera are not "button mashing fests".

It is apparently clear who has and hasn't played those games at their endgames.  

 

 

99.9% of what is wrong with the current action MMO games has NOTHING to do with combat systems they employ.  Tera has a  severely weak questing system and a lack of content, and features a heavy grind based endgame.  GW2 doesn't give the person a carrot to chase and has no trinity system.  Those are the faults that prevent those games from being great, not their significantly superior combat systems.

 

if you combine a game with Tera's combat, TSWs quests/storyline, and Rifts endgame and flexibility; you'd have a monster of a game.  Unfortunately the action MMOs just haven't put together a full package yet.

  Eir_S

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/07/11
Posts: 4700

GW2 socialist.

7/21/13 1:19:34 AM#59
Originally posted by Grailer

I would suggest the combat will be very similar to EQ2 .

 

Why break something that isn't broken .

 

You call EQ2's combat "not broken"?  I guess it's a preference thing but I thought it was the WORST part of what was otherwise a solid game... well that and the character models, but I could overlook those.  If EQN's combat is like EQ2's, I'll just skip it.

  Loke666

Elite Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 16606

7/21/13 1:38:45 AM#60
Originally posted by Seventhprophet

 

There are many "fun" games out now, with smooth combat and quick action.  These games are awesome, and hold our attention for maybe a month or so.  No matter how novel the mechanics of a games combat system is, the truth is, you'll master it, and It will be boring.  

The last few big name mmorpgs have tried to capture this video game combat style and have succeeded to a small degree.  Combat is fun.  But it comes at a trade off.

Class roles become almost non existent.  Everyone become some form of dps bot, jumping and flipping around for no reason.  So much so that no one really talks any more.  There is no reason to formulate a plan.  No reason to ask about builds or anything really.  You just go, and treat it like the action game that mmorpgs have evolved into.   If things go badly, fingers are blindly pointed.  Where at one time you would know if it were an agro issue or dps or healing style,  Now, outside of seeing someone stand in the fire, people only have a vague notion of what's going wrong when things go bad.  Usually groups disband with finger pointing and "newb" declarations.

 Where in classic MMOs you would see a group change tactics, talk it out, try new things and spend hours in a single dungeon.  It's where friendships and memories were made.  It's a huge reason why we clung to those games for so long.  It kept our interest.  And yes, when you had that many moving parts it took a lot of concentration, skill and awareness in order to succeed.  The more modern games move towards video game controller action,  the more dumbed down and simplistic they get.  If you know how to jump around and click two to four buttons quickly, identify an attack animation and pick the right way to duck, you're a pro.  Outside of that, what does class choice matter at that point?

I'm hoping that the "next" thing in MMOs isn't the same old thing that seem to be destroying them the last couple of years.  Yes those MMOs were fun.  But how many really kept the attention of the masses for any amount of time?

I am pretty sure that had more to do with the fact that dungeons were a lot harder in the old days than todays cookie cutter dungeons together with the fact that you couldn't check any game wikis in the late 90s.

Even FPS styled combat with a few attacks takes skill and groupwork if the content is hard enough but now the games have at best a few raid dungeons that needs that kind skill, usually they substitute skill with gear now.

Compare GW1 and GW2 at launch. Neither had trinity but the first game actually took hard work early while the second ones difficulty got so nerfed after the first 2 betaweeks that combat suddenly takes very little skill. 

I don't think we really can blame a specific combat mechanics for this, modern trinity games are as bad as none trinity games. For a game to really last long term it must have at least 25% really hard content which forces you to play a little better all the time instead of just farming better gear.

I mean, come on. Everytime a MMO have launched the last 5+ years someone already maxed a character out within 3 days or less. You just couldn't do that with games like Meridian 59, Lineage or Everquest back in the days.

What kills the long term value of a game is not the "fun" part and neither the combat mechanics but the difficulty.

They make the games for people who play MMOs 3-4 hours each week with not that much skill and want them to max out a character in a few months anyways. Real MMO fans that put that many hours or more each day can't really be satified long terms with that. 

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