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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Would you play a MMORPG without character-progression?

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110 posts found
  Mr_Mechanical

Novice Member

Joined: 7/08/13
Posts: 88

7/19/13 11:05:50 PM#21
Originally posted by Bigmamajama

We must be running out of things to discuss here.

How about an MMO that just consists of creating a character.  Like you know a gazillion options for character creation.  When your done with your character the game never loads because there is no game, you just make another character.

I can come up dumb ideas for MMO's all day long.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!

This is why I love topics like this.  

I agree with both the OP and Bigmamajama on this.      

Got me a real good laugh out of it too, thank you!

  free2play

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/13/05
Posts: 1807

7/19/13 11:13:32 PM#22

There were always be progress. I'm guessing what you mean is leveling. You would still need to upgrade your character over time. Template characters with say a stamp on when you can redesign your template would work and as suggested, it would see min/ maxing and FotM templating in under a month of launch but if each aspect of a template was distinct and there wasn't a hard focus on specific aspects of game play it would work.

Would I try an MMO that offered a custom system of templates over leveling? Of course. EVE has how many ships, each with a Job? SWG PreCU had 250 points, you could distribute and redistribute.  Many games have sub skills you can move about like traits in LotRO. Final Fantasy games had you find Espers and Materia that you equipped and those defined your abilities.

 

It can be done, it has been done. It's about finding the right combination of features though. MMO's seem to want to sell on one defining feature and that seems to be the downfall.

  severius

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/10/04
Posts: 1527

7/19/13 11:16:10 PM#23
Isn't this what the multiplayer is in shooters?  Games like tribes where its just a loadout and twitch skills over character abilities?


  Dredphyre

Novice Member

Joined: 9/11/10
Posts: 609

fanboi of truth

7/19/13 11:17:36 PM#24

I have played such a game...and it is probably one of the more fun MMOs I've experienced.  It has progression, BUT that progression lies in your own skill at the game.  The MMO of which I speak is World War II Online (aka Battlefield Europe).

There are some unlocks which I wouldn't really call progression...more horizontal really. As I said, the real progression involves you as a player getting better. No leveling or uber gear crutches.

  Dredphyre

Novice Member

Joined: 9/11/10
Posts: 609

fanboi of truth

7/19/13 11:19:35 PM#25
Originally posted by Bigmamajama

We must be running out of things to discuss here.

How about an MMO that just consists of creating a character.  Like you know a gazillion options for character creation.  When your done with your character the game never loads because there is no game, you just make another character.

I can come up dumb ideas for MMO's all day long.

This sounds like my PnP Game Master to be honest. Every time my friends and I get together with him, he throws a new RPG system at us and asks us to roll up characters. We never play an actual adventure anymore....

  Bigmamajama

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/18/13
Posts: 206

7/19/13 11:52:10 PM#26
Originally posted by Dredphyre
Originally posted by Bigmamajama

We must be running out of things to discuss here.

How about an MMO that just consists of creating a character.  Like you know a gazillion options for character creation.  When your done with your character the game never loads because there is no game, you just make another character.

I can come up dumb ideas for MMO's all day long.

This sounds like my PnP Game Master to be honest. Every time my friends and I get together with him, he throws a new RPG system at us and asks us to roll up characters. We never play an actual adventure anymore....

I'm totally joking but I can see how this would actually be appealing to some people.  Character creation means little to nothing to me, its all about character development while your playing.  Give me a blank slate of a character and let me build him from scratch bit by bit through gameplay, improving my skills based on what I enjoy doing, drawing a bow, jumping, sprinting etc.

  Theocritus

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/15/08
Posts: 3613

7/19/13 11:55:08 PM#27
Character progression is probably the number 1 thing I look for in a MMO...i always have to ahve the need to improve and have something to shoot for.....games wehre your character is predetermined never work for me.
  gaeanprayer

Novice Member

Joined: 8/06/08
Posts: 2360

7/19/13 11:57:42 PM#28
Nope. 

"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12255

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, Project Gorgon, and Combat Arms

7/19/13 11:58:15 PM#29
Depends on the MMO. I enjoyed it in Puzzle Pirates, played several characters with disregard for stats in UO (RP), and have enjoyed my time in Kaneva, Second Life and vMTV.  For me, it all depends on what the gameplay is if it isn't character advancement.

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  NagelRitter

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/18/13
Posts: 613

7/19/13 11:59:34 PM#30

I think you are clinging to an outdated version of what RPG means...

RPG doesn't mean a game you roleplay in. That's part of the term but that meaning is quite outdated. The fact that you had to go back to "days of old" is evidence of that. Realistically, you can roleplay in any genre, but only certain games are RPG's. You can't undo centuries of RPG development by Shadowrun.

RPG's are defined by progression that is manifested as player's experiences with the world. Baldur's Gate definitely has that and there's more to progression than levels, it also involves items, reputation, results of choices, etc., all of these specify that the character you have now is not the one you had before. That is what makes an RPG since that has to be defined in the game itself (ergo, character data), and not outside the game (a player's skill or experience).

Your perception of progression seems marred by how you see it in WoW or something, but MMORPG's are often very poor examples of RPG progression. What about GW1? You cap at 20 but you can still get new abilities or companions or you can leave your mark on the world. All of that is progression.

What you're speaking of has progression. Crafting is a form of progression no matter how you spin it unless you have 50 items you can make straight away and they auto-destroy themselves. If they do not, you still have a form of progression in: "I have made everything in the game". When I play EVE my progression is closer to: "How many things can I make?" than to "How many skillpoints do I have".

If I started EVE and could make everything in the game and everything was invented, and nobody needed my stuff, what exactly would I... do? Truly, you make no sense, you can't say "crafting" and "no progression" in the same sentence.

Don't fight semantics, this is still an RPG and it still has progression, it's just more emergent and less power based is all you're saying.

Favorite MMO: Vanilla WoW
Currently playing: GW2, EVE
Excited for: Wildstar, maybe?

  Eir_S

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/07/11
Posts: 4701

GW2 socialist.

7/20/13 12:00:17 AM#31
Well even GW2 has some character progression and I play that, so honestly I don't know.  Sounds like a sandbox to me, and I'm waiting for a good one.
  Gishgeron

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/05/07
Posts: 1297

7/20/13 12:02:58 AM#32
Originally posted by Bigmamajama

We must be running out of things to discuss here.

How about an MMO that just consists of creating a character.  Like you know a gazillion options for character creation.  When your done with your character the game never loads because there is no game, you just make another character.

I can come up dumb ideas for MMO's all day long.

 

 

  Whats funny about this is that I just made a comment in a different thread about City of Heroes...and now you've lined me up to do so again.  I have actually spent whole game sessions making character in that game.  It was enjoyable enough to BE the game.  So...we already had that MMO kinda.  And it rocked.

  Mardukk

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/05/11
Posts: 1395

7/20/13 12:10:57 AM#33
No. MMOs should be about virtual worlds and character building. I played enough boring ass console games in the 80s with nothing.
  Gishgeron

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/05/07
Posts: 1297

7/20/13 12:20:49 AM#34
Originally posted by Mardukk
No. MMOs should be about virtual worlds and character building. I played enough boring ass console games in the 80s with nothing.

 

  You aren't being completely fair.  Those games had something, just very small amounts of something.  Given that MMO gaming is considered a grander project of scope, you could safely assume it to contain more amounts of something.  While any one of those "boring ass console games" might have not been your favorite thing ever, I'd be hard pressed to believe you wouldn't enjoy a sum of their parts on a larger scale.

  Elevenb4

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/08/12
Posts: 221

7/20/13 12:22:38 AM#35
Originally posted by NagelRitter

I think you are clinging to an outdated version of what RPG means...

RPG doesn't mean a game you roleplay in. That's part of the term but that meaning is quite outdated. The fact that you had to go back to "days of old" is evidence of that. Realistically, you can roleplay in any genre, but only certain games are RPG's. You can't undo centuries of RPG development by Shadowrun.

RPG's are defined by progression that is manifested as player's experiences with the world. Baldur's Gate definitely has that and there's more to progression than levels, it also involves items, reputation, results of choices, etc., all of these specify that the character you have now is not the one you had before. That is what makes an RPG since that has to be defined in the game itself (ergo, character data), and not outside the game (a player's skill or experience).

Your perception of progression seems marred by how you see it in WoW or something, but MMORPG's are often very poor examples of RPG progression. What about GW1? You cap at 20 but you can still get new abilities or companions or you can leave your mark on the world. All of that is progression.

What you're speaking of has progression. Crafting is a form of progression no matter how you spin it unless you have 50 items you can make straight away and they auto-destroy themselves. If they do not, you still have a form of progression in: "I have made everything in the game". When I play EVE my progression is closer to: "How many things can I make?" than to "How many skillpoints do I have".

If I started EVE and could make everything in the game and everything was invented, and nobody needed my stuff, what exactly would I... do? Truly, you make no sense, you can't say "crafting" and "no progression" in the same sentence.

Don't fight semantics, this is still an RPG and it still has progression, it's just more emergent and less power based is all you're saying.

You basically just wrote out what I was trying to verbalize in my mind.


To the OP,  like you said, you have a few contradictions in your post of things you want. You can say you want this aspect in an MMO, but how many other "aspects" do you have to give up to achieve this? I think if someone was dumb enough to spend money making something like this, it would be a complete waste of time and money. It wouldn't be successful at all.

-Unconstitutional laws aren't laws.-

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19753

7/20/13 12:26:50 AM#36

No i won't.

In fact, i like my FPS, action games, and stealth games with some character progression too.

 

  winter

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/08/03
Posts: 2236

7/20/13 12:57:43 AM#37
Originally posted by Yalexy

 


Originally posted by rojo6934
no. I dont want less features in my mmorpg.  I want more. Taking features out (or leaving good features out in exchange of other stuff) only affects the game negatively and im not wasting money or time on empty virtual worlds. EDIT: im ok not having levels, but character progression is not limited to leveling an exp bar and going up a number.

 

There wouldn't be less features actually. You just wouldn't need to level up first or otherwise improve character-skills.

Look at Skyrim for example and let's say you're given 60 skill-perks at charcter-creation to build your character the way you want. This wouldn't take anything away from the game imho.

 


Originally posted by Bigmamajama
We must be running out of things to discuss here.

 

How about an MMO that just consists of creating a character.  Like you know a gazillion options for character creation.  When your done with your character the game never loads because there is no game, you just make another character.

I can come up dumb ideas for MMO's all day long.


 

For you it may be a stupid idea, but I'm rather serious about this topic, as I want to see more RPG in my MMO and less character-progression.

In a MMORPG this would lead to a situation, where people would've characters not able to do certain content on their own, because they didn't chose the skills to do so, and suddenly they would be required to team up with others, who would have the macthing skill-set.

No balancing-issues aswell, as the devs could tune the skills right away. And it would be awesome for open world PvP, as every player would be as strong as the others right away... no ganking noobs anymore.

 What's the point seriously? If your given everything at start and not ever gonna improve. Sure there's story but story without growth is VERY limited IMO. As the previous poster stated your removing things that make RPG's fun dumbing them down and adding nothing.

  While it might not be your intent your post sounds very much like the "I want it all and I want it now" complaint of some players that can't be bothered to play a game to get things and only rush through or buy things so they can get to the end game. 

  In RL one could look at this 2 ways...

A) your start at 6 years of age and never grow, never learn simply stay static at 6  till you die.

 

B) This is probably closer to what your wanting. You start life at say 21  at your peak with everything you need. You never  grow, learn, or gain anything everything has just been handed to you. You never have to work at anything as its never gonna get any better. It will be exactly like this no matter what till you die.

 

  Both seem pretty damn boring to me. 

  Mtibbs1989

Elite Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 2692

7/20/13 1:04:52 AM#38
No progression just sounds boring...


Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

  Mtibbs1989

Elite Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 2692

7/20/13 1:06:39 AM#39
Originally posted by Eir_S
Well even GW2 has some character progression and I play that, so honestly I don't know.  Sounds like a sandbox to me, and I'm waiting for a good one.

 Sandbox games have progression, anything that furthers your characters development is considered progression. Items, materials, character stats, and etc is progression. 


Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

  winter

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/08/03
Posts: 2236

7/20/13 1:13:18 AM#40
Originally posted by Yalexy

 


Originally posted by NagelRitter

Originally posted by Yalexy


Where did it ever say, that you need character-progression to make it an MMORPG? Like I said, there was Pen&Paper RPGs like Shadowrun that didn't have character-progression.
I guess I am having trouble understanding an RPG with no progression (levels, skills, anything) or development of any sort. That's typically considered a staple. I have never played Shadowrun. But every RPG I ever played had a form of progression. Do you have any examples that are recent computer games?

 

If you play the campaign of Battlefield or Call of Duty you don't gain levels or skillpoints either, and these campaigns play basically like a RPG.

Or take Baldurs Gate. Allthough there's progression, the progression is so little, that it could've lived without it actually. After playing through the whole game your char was what, LvL 9 or 10 maybe.

I don't wanna do away customization, but I want it in the very beginning when you create your character, and the progression would be more in the way of some better equipment that is maybe some 20% better in the tops compared to the starter-gear.

The progression isn't really needed, when the game is more about roleplaying, politics, waging wars against other guilds, being the best crafter or trader, or being the guy that knows every little corner of the world etc.
The progression would be to make yourself a name in the game everyone remembers.

Look at EvE Online. Allthough there's character-progression, the character-progression is not what the game is about really and some of the most respected and known persons never even fired a single shot, like Chribba.

 There are lots of types of progression, not just level. Balders gate had as much character progression as any game out IMO. Eve also has a lot of character progression if you put your skills toward better mining instead of shooting your still progressing. Do what you suggest and say ok hered your ship it will really never change and heres your skills they will really never change and EvE would fold.

  What if I'm bored of fighting and want to mine, sorry you can't that wasn't your skill setup at start. etc

 When you say you don't want progression your removing a hell of a lot. Why fight over territory if they territory has no effect? If it does have a effect then that's a form of progression.

  Sure never changing staticness works for short stories but for MMORPG's where players spends months and sometimes years I'd say it won't. There's only so many times people will want to work there way to the end of a story to find that basically NOTHING has changed because all forms of progression have been removed 

 

  

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