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Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn

Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn 

General Discussion  » End Game - Great Video Summarizing What to Expect

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88 posts found
  jskeets916

Novice Member

Joined: 1/08/13
Posts: 160

7/18/13 10:43:15 PM#41
Originally posted by drivendawn
Originally posted by ZizouX

I feel really bad for linking to the video.  I thought maybe it's a public service announcment for people who had no idea what's waiting for us.  However, it looks like people on this thread have decided to go the video and start posting some really offensive comments to the creator of the video.

 

I kinda feel bad about it now.

 

 

No reason to feel bad, haters gonna hate. Unfortunately for some reason some stick around to hate longer for no reason. 

........TROLLS  there i said it.

Indeed.  It's truly sad i doubt they even watched/finished the video, with the assertion early in the thread of 8 man raids at launch (not 24 like the video confirmed).  Not to mention 2-3 Months to accomplish near completion and ensue boredom was asserted?

Unless you already did the work yourself in 1.0 for a year or bought an account, i'd love to see you get ALL or even the majority of class's not only 50, but tailored with the best endgame gear and weapons. Which includes not just your grind for the relic weapons, but the 24 man raid gear as well that will take time to learn/progress through on all those roles, while your crafting, Coliseum pvp gear grind...(Did you watch the video)?

  MMOGamer71

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/12/07
Posts: 1516

7/18/13 10:51:40 PM#42

Two most common said words in a failed MMO:  End game.

 

 

  simulacra

Novice Member

Joined: 7/11/13
Posts: 93

7/18/13 11:00:17 PM#43
Originally posted by Murugan
Originally posted by drivendawn
Originally posted by ZizouX

I feel really bad for linking to the video.  I thought maybe it's a public service announcment for people who had no idea what's waiting for us.  However, it looks like people on this thread have decided to go the video and start posting some really offensive comments to the creator of the video.

 

I kinda feel bad about it now.

 

 

No reason to feel bad, haters gonna hate. Unfortunately for some reason some stick around to hate longer for no reason. 

........TROLLS  there i said it.

Man I don't see what you are talking about Zizoux, all i see on youtube is:\

 

Sephyrix:

This comment has received too many negative votes (show the comment)

 

hmmmmm No I have read enough from Sephyrix today.

 

Would be nice if we could downvote posts on this forum to make them auto hide after a certain ratio was reached with an option to open them if you still wanted to.

 

I wholeheartedly agree

  Murugan

Novice Member

Joined: 4/18/08
Posts: 1567

7/18/13 11:15:03 PM#44
Originally posted by MMOGamer71

Two most common said words in a failed MMO:  End game.

 

 

FFXI, EQ, EQ2, WoW, Vanguard, all "failed MMO's".

 

As opposed to those gems that don't have end game so.... sandboxes like Mortal Online or EvE?  The only two non-"failed" MMORPG's ever to exist.  Or does a game just not have to have high level content in order to not fail?

 

Honestly as soon as a developer or fans of a game start the whole "We won't have an ENDGAME because the whole game is the journey"  I tune out.  As if endgame actually means a finite experience, I mean I guess eventually once they stop adding content that is true.  Until then endgame is just synonymous with "fun content". 

 

To me at least it is fun, others may prefer to get to level cap and quit and play a different MMORPG.  But that would make a horrible subscription MMORPG (as many recent attempts at P2P that did not have enough endgame found out).

 

http://xivpads.com/?1595680
http://guildwork.com/users/murugan

  Laughing-man

Elite Member

Joined: 4/23/09
Posts: 3360

I thought what I'd do is I'd pretend I was one of those Deaf-mutes.

7/18/13 11:22:31 PM#45
Originally posted by simulacra
Originally posted by Murugan
Originally posted by drivendawn
Originally posted by ZizouX

I feel really bad for linking to the video.  I thought maybe it's a public service announcment for people who had no idea what's waiting for us.  However, it looks like people on this thread have decided to go the video and start posting some really offensive comments to the creator of the video.

 

I kinda feel bad about it now.

 

 

No reason to feel bad, haters gonna hate. Unfortunately for some reason some stick around to hate longer for no reason. 

........TROLLS  there i said it.

Man I don't see what you are talking about Zizoux, all i see on youtube is:\

 

Sephyrix:

This comment has received too many negative votes (show the comment)

 

hmmmmm No I have read enough from Sephyrix today.

 

Would be nice if we could downvote posts on this forum to make them auto hide after a certain ratio was reached with an option to open them if you still wanted to.

 

I wholeheartedly agree

+1 After having actually read the comment that was hidden, I'm glad it is, was offended by their language and their lack of ability when it comes to describing things negatively.

Thanks for the video OP, showed it to some friends already, great vid.

  Amsai

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/16/11
Posts: 69

7/18/13 11:47:23 PM#46
Originally posted by MMOGamer71

Two most common said words in a failed MMO:  End game.

 

 

Really? I could have sworn those 2 words were Sand box.

Anyone looking for the most common three words in a failed mmo? Free to Play

 

In all seriousness, I wish they had gone a different direction with the combat too. That being said, this game will not fail or got F2P. Now it may be true for some to say that the game didnt meet their expectations or requirements, but that doesnt mean other people dont like it or that it will fail to meet the minimum subs required to sustain. The story is awesome, the dungeon mechanics are very nice, and there will be plenty to do. You guys must not be familiair with SE MMOs either?.......... LMAO you wont be getting a relic in a month you silly things. the casual side of this game WILL be very casual including the leveling dungeons. The higher level dungeons, raids and other encounters will be hard and as they increas in level probably only for the elite. And by elite I mean godly geared FCs that know how to play 2-3 classes (at least) like rock stars. Mark my words some of it will be ragequit hard, and some people wont be able to handle it. and some people might get their feelings hurt and have to go to a f2p mmo so they can feel special again with handed out epics.

 

Now here are some true things about people who dont like the game:

You dont like the game for one of several reasons because the game doesnt fit what you need/like.  And its as simple as that! Maybe cuz its not a sandbox? or because its tab target, etc etc. There is nothing wrong with that. But that means JUST that. This in no way will be a WoW killer but you are dilluding yourself if you thiink SE isnt going to make a killing on this. Either that or you dont understand just how extreme the fan base is. Did you not see how many people stayed even durring 1.0?

 

Sorry about the cheap shot sandboxers, but you know as well as I do most sandboxes are just piss poor in implimintation (Partly imho because they always seem to be ffa pvp nightmares, and what the sandbox genre really needs is a AAA PvE title). Id like to say as much as I love giving sandboxes a hard time. I really do like some of them. I hope Everquest Next turns out to be all sandboxers and EQ fans hope. I myself am heavily invested (kickstarter) in Pathfinder Online. But hey I dont have a philosophy that didctates that an MMO should always be "this" way. Themepark, sandbox, doesnt matter. The only thing I see is fun or not fun.

 

I wont be sorry about the f2p comment though. Anyone who wont support a game simply because its got a sub is either a naive child or a cheap bastard. If a naive child at least you have an excuse. If a cheap bastard have no respect for you. YOU are ruining the genre by supporting the F2P frauds. Get a fucking job everything since the begining of time has always cost money. If you actually are too poor to P2P then find a different hobby. I already have to pay taxes to support the poor. I sure as hell dont want to support mmo welfare.

 

 

 

  ZizouX

Elite Member

Joined: 5/17/11
Posts: 657

 
OP  7/19/13 12:01:06 AM#47

 

Not to derail my own thread... but as a father of two... it cost me $80+ dollars to watch Despicable Me 2 with my wife and two boys.  I know the value of money and entertainment.

 

P2P games, done well are the cheapest forms of entertainment for dollar per hour of entertainment.  I've also had enough of the F2P market...

  Sephrinx

Novice Member

Joined: 7/13/13
Posts: 68

7/19/13 12:04:23 AM#48

 


Originally posted by Foomerang Meh. You guys can have your raids. You can find me at my shop selling my wares, or my house tending my crops, or the beach fishing up some dinner, or the golden saucer racing my chocobo, or the... ;)

I sincerely hope you are joking with that statement.

 

 


So you are assuming that you can level a character from 1-50 and get your relic weapon in one month. You also assume that you will be able to grind endgame raids while you are working on your relic?
Completely wrong.
First off getting your relic weapon will not be easy. Its going to be a grind.


Of course they say that. If it's true, and it doesn't just take 2 weeks, then awesome. I hope you are right, the more content the better, the more I feel like I am actively and purposefully working towards a goal, the better.

 

 


Also Yoshida has mentioned that players will need to have multiple lvl 50 jobs to be affective in 24 man raids.

Why? You can't cross job. Why would it matter if you only have one job? I don't understand how having two or more jobs would be more effective than having just one job. Care to enlighten me on this? It's kinda unclear..

 

 


Secondly, you cant raid with a relic weapon. Its not powerful enough. You need a primal weapon. And you cant get a primal without a relic.

An iLvl 90 weapon isn't powerful enough to raid? Where are you getting this information by the way, I am quite curious. I have dug through the beta forums for days and haven't found any of this information. Also, if you are going by the 1.X model, I think things are just a bit different.

 

 


Third, you're going to need a real good, tight group of 24 to raid. If they are as good and tight as you would want them to be, then they are going to expect you to have your basic raid setup. Multiple 50s, and multiple primal weapons.
So realisticly its going to take you a good 2-3 months just to get ready to raid. (Lets not forget you need to materia up all your gear)

I don't believe you... First off, I hit the level cap of 35 on the beta in two nights of playing. I played maybe 6-9 hours each sitting. And at that time I had literally no idea what I was doing. If I were to play again, I could easily hit level 35 in a solid day of playing, from dawn to dusk of course, since I would know where to go, what areas are the most efficient and will net the most Exp/Hour. I would also skip cutscene's and ignore the BS. I am quite confident I could hit level 5 in 4 days. So getting multiple classes to level 50 is no big deal, especially since you earn bonus exp for alternate classes.

 

 


Then you should know that these raids are not easy. Yoshida has said that these raids were designed to out right kill players. He said your average group will need to wipe 7-8 times before they figure raids out. So say you raid 2 nights a week( which is average in mmos) You wipe twice a night... That's two weeks of failure before your guild even figures things out!

Why would you stop raiding after two wipes tho? Back in my day of progression, we would raid till our eyes bled and we couldn't take it anymore. Not "Well, we tried twice, lets call it good." that is just silly lol. And two nights a week? Try 5 nights a week. Two night raid schedule is like, super casual and not hardcore in anyway.

 

 


Lets also not forget these raids are Towers and Labyrinths. Its going to take time to get to the end. And you have to beat the Tower, in order to gear up for the Labyrinth.
Cool Tower first, then Labs.

 

 


So at best its going to be 4-5 months before a good percentage of players clear the endgame at release.
I think you are underestimating hardcore gamers man. I used to play hardcore, like, 80+ hours a week, on a relaxed schedule. I do not fall into the "good percentage" category of casual mmo hoppers.


Funny thing.... Yoshida said they will do major updates every 3 months. So by the time you get to end of endgame there will already be two updates worth of endgame for you to continue on with.

Awesome. More content is always good. But spoonfeeding raid progression is asburd.

 

 


Just more proof that when people who don't know what they are talking about, talk.... they look like idiots.

I do know what I am talking about. Everything I am saying is based, mostly on my own personal opinion of what I have seen/heard/read/experience in the game. Also, if you would site your sources for all of this information, it would be quite nice. I skimmed through the youtube Videos of Mr Happy or w/e his name was, and most of them were about classes, and crafting and materia and what not, and not many of them pertained to the actual game and its content. Thanks tho. If what you say is correct and the game will provide deep and meaningful progression, awesome. I hope it does. But the combat still sucks ass, and it's boring to play. Unless that changes... idk. I know "Don't like it don't play it." I've heard that a thousand times. I also know "they can't cater to everyone" and I understand that. It's fine. I'm just saying, my own personal taste for what makes an MMO fun, stem from the combat system.

 

 

  Sephrinx

Novice Member

Joined: 7/13/13
Posts: 68

7/19/13 12:23:31 AM#49
Originally posted by Arcticnoon

Youre forgetting this is not a 1 player game. Its an mmo.

What level would your esper be after you found him? ( you wouldn't "find" him because you could just google where it was a week after release) Level 1? Level 50?

Your Esper would be level one, and they would be acquired through a series of quests and dungeons, starting at level 20. It's not pokemon, you don't just be going out and picking them up like a Mineral Deposit. Espers then gain Exp from combat and quests, just like you would. Of course the amount they gain and how fast they level, as well as their level cap, would be entirely determinable by SE. They could only go from level 1-10, they could go up to level 100. Who knows how they would implement it. I could go on about how i would do it, but I'll spare you the read.

No level 50 player wants to level a lvl 1 esper. That's just dumb. If youre 50 and lvling a lvl 50 esper, how high would it go? 50 would have to be the cap or the game would be unbalance. You cant run around at lvl 50 with a lvl 60 pet.

How is it dumb? If I had the chance, I would jump all over it, I don't get it.  It's not a pet, it's more of an item. Think of it like a Soul Crystal. Each player would get one Esper slot. Each esper has their own innate attribute bonuses and abilities they grant you from equipping them. It's not a pet.

Secondly espers (summons) are only for summoners. It would be the only job that could use youre genius idea. Again unbalanced.

You obviously don't understand what I am trying to convey with the system of Espers. I will break it down for you. This is all simply rhetoric and is completely made up off the spot right now, bear with me. Each esper is unique to a class trainer. Once you are level with that class, you can accept the first quest and get your first esper from each respective class trainer. Every 10 levels you are presented with a new available esper. As well as at level 50, as well as each hardmode dungeon has their own Esper Quest. Each esper requires a different task and materials to obtain. Below is an example. 

 Mike the Conjurer hits level 15. He goes back to his Class Guild leader, and the present him with a quest, "Espers and Advancement." He accepts the quest, and is now off to a Dungeon to search for magical fairy dust, and crystalized mana. Once he has obtained the required materials, he heads back to town and talks to his Class Trainer. He then recieves a "Hollow Esper" that can be augmented, and enhanced by the follow up quest, "Esper-gize." He goes out to the next dungeon, and obtains certain materials and more crystallized mana. Upon return, the Class Trainer channel a magical incantation, and creates a fully revived Esper. Let's say he got the Carbuncle Esper. Congrats Mike the Conjurer! You can now equip espers and accept quests from various Class Trainers!

. Once able to equip an esper, and Item Slot in your Character screen opens up. You then are able to select from a drop-down list of espers you have obtained. Each esper starts at level one, and gains exp through combat, only while it is equipped. Depending on the espers level, it grants bonus stats and abilities. Each esper is unique and is bound to the player. It is not a pet. It cannot be summoned, unless you are an Arcanist, in which case Espers would be even more badass.

I hope that cleared things up a bit.

Leveling and finding materia is just as bad of an idea. The only way you could "find" materia is through a quest and doing that over and over would be just boring.

Getting new spells and abilities as you level materia is also silly. Why not just level your job? Once you hit 51 or 52 you get new abilities.

How would you tell level 50s apart? You'd be checking to see what level their materia was before you partied up with them.

Maybe you should stick to one player games.

You are hopeless lmao. No one said they should implement FF7 Style Materia. So I'm just going to ignore this part of your post.

  Sephrinx

Novice Member

Joined: 7/13/13
Posts: 68

7/19/13 12:32:00 AM#50
Originally posted by ZizouX 

Then it should come as a complete shock to you that Tera went free to play.

No, not really. It's a fun game, with brilliant combat, but it lacks a lot of other stuff that is essential to an MMO's success and longevity. It was fun tho, I enjoyed it. 

 Mr. Happy is a really good guy.  Has a nice even keel personality and uses his time to provide the community who likes FFXIV with information.  It's aimed at people who are coming into it fresh for 2.0, not necessarily people like me who have Legacy characters.   Like I said before, you seem to be very sure of what you like and don't like, which begs the question, why troll forums of a game that you CLEARLY know isn't for you?

I don't have any legacy characters either. I am as fresh to this game as possible. I'm not trolling any forums. I'm just discussing my ideals and getting other peoples opinions as well. It's called communication. At no point have I ever said anything rude or obtuse. I have stated my own opinions and with reasons behind my opinions as to why I hold them. If you disagree, that is fine, if you agree, awesome, I'm glad we have similar views on the subject.

 

Even if you don't like the game, i don't see why you feel it's necessary to go and post inflamatory language in a youtube video that's only trying to give people information.  That speaks more about you than the video.  Quite frankly no one cares what you think, nor do they care what I think.  At least with me, I try not to be overly pushy about it.

I am looking in my comment history right now, and the last thing I commented on was a League of Legends video talking about Riven QoL changes. Why would you accuse me of doing such a thing? That just doesn't make sense lol. And if you don't care what people think, and no one cares what you think, why are you hear? Leave the forums. I don't know if you know this, but forums are a place for people to discuss things and have conversations and debate about stuff. At no point in the agreement does it say that you have the right to not be offended or that people are not allowed to argue or disagree with your views or ideals. So yeah, again, why did you say that I posted inflammatory language on this guys youtube?

EDIT: Nevermind, I found what you are talking about. This is what I said in case people were curious. 

"5 hours a day is pussy shit. If it's a good MMO and I don't have a busy work schedule, I will play that shit 10 hours a? day easy. I WILL have a guild and I WILL hit level 50 within a week. I hit 35 on the beta in TWO NIGHTS taking about 16 hours total."

 

This is a game you either like or don't.  Play if you do, move on if you don't.  Don't stir the pot and escalate the level of the language because you're bored.

This just says that you are unable to speak and communicate with people who have different views than yourself, and rather than trying to do so, you deject them and push them away because you don't know how to deal with it. I can not like the game, and I can talk about it and what I think would make it better, or I can like the game, and talk about what I think would make it better. Your arguments hold about as much as a sifter.

  Sephrinx

Novice Member

Joined: 7/13/13
Posts: 68

7/19/13 12:35:52 AM#51
Originally posted by Murugan

Man I don't see what you are talking about Zizoux, all i see on youtube is:\

 

Sephyrix:

This comment has received too many negative votes (show the comment)

 

hmmmmm No I have read enough from Sephyrix today.

 

Would be nice if we could downvote posts on this forum to make them auto hide after a certain ratio was reached with an option to open them if you still wanted to.

This is a lie, I didn't post anything on his youtube. And you didn't spell Sephrinx right either time, and you obviously just made this up. I don't get it. 

  sudo

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/23/05
Posts: 698

7/19/13 12:46:02 AM#52

Very informative and well made video. Linked it to a couple of my pessimistic friends :)

Thanks.

"Only in quiet waters do things mirror themselves undistorted.
Only in a quiet mind is adequate perception of the world."
Hans Margolius

  Sephrinx

Novice Member

Joined: 7/13/13
Posts: 68

7/19/13 12:50:38 AM#53
Originally posted by Murugan
I play for combat too, specifically group play.  This game has the best.  My opinion.  Want to argue it is "boring" make some points if you are even capable of that.  Give me a comparison to some other MMORPG you think has better group play.  You say you are hardcore, you say you raid, but let's see some evidence of that in your post other than the typical:

Ok, here are a couple complaints about the combat system...

  • 1. It is slow
The combat in this game is incredibly slow. It may have something to do with the fact that most attack and spell animations are less than 1.5 second long, which leaves a large window during combat where your character is just standing there doing nothing, waiting for either their auto attack timer to swing, or their Global Cooldown to refresh. The GCD hold back the pace of combat to an even more immense level. 2.5 seconds is very long time for a GCD. I know there are a handful of abilities that aren't moderated by the GCD, they also aren't exactly 'instant' cast, it still takes a few mashes of the button in order to get them to activate, and they also share their own internal cooldowns among Non-GCD Reliant abilities. 
  • 2. It is shallow 
The combat is far too easy and simple. The basic rotations for all the classes, from my experience, (Each class to level 20, GLD to level 35) were all basic and static. There was very little incentive to switch to a different rotation or throw in a different spell, unless I needed to stun an enemy to prevent it from casting or something similar. The amount of complexity and depth of the combat system can be measured in milligrams. It's shallow and non-intuitive. There is very little variation from playing a GLD, MRA or PUG in the way that their abilities, TP management and play styles work. It's all about just finding the rotation and keeping it going, while managing your TP. Most rotations only consist of 3-4 abilities at the most as well. There are too many abilities that have 60second + timers on them, which really drags the combat down even more.
 
  • It is boring
With the combination of points 1 and 2, and the little differentiation between classes, the games combat system just doesn't feel right. There is no flow or fluency between most abilities and spells. There are no interesting spell/abilities mechanics, nothing makes me feel powerful, or stand out from another class.

"I'll beat the game in a week" "I play 800909 hours a day"

Ok? Not sure how to reply to this.

 

 Also spoonfed raid progression?  Meaning what exactly?  That it is easy?  How do you know that?   Keep acting like you are some authority based on your supposed accomplishments in VIDEO GAMES, I can't downvote your posts here maybe like everyone did on youtube but I will mock the fact that you seem to rely only on your authority as some kind of expert on fun to make your arguments.

By spoonfed, I mean that they only give you a little bit at a time. Like when you feed your baby with a spoon. You don't give them the entire cup of applesauce, you have to give them little baby spoonfuls. And that is what SE is doing with their raid design. Only allowing us access to a spoonful at a time of the cup of proverbial applesauce. They should just give us the damned jar of applesauce. We are big kids, we can handle it. We won't choke on ourselves or make a mess. They need to just let us have 100% access too all of it. And if we are able to progress and complete them, awesome, kudos to those who are able to. But not being able to even try is almost insulting.

I can't think of anything more subjective, and because I don't see myself as being anything like you your idea of fun means zilch to me.

Ok. You know, you don't have to read my posts. Don't like it? Don't read it!! Baahahahah!! 

 

  Arcticnoon

Novice Member

Joined: 4/20/13
Posts: 146

7/19/13 1:05:55 AM#54
Originally posted by Sephrinx

 


Originally posted by Foomerang Meh. You guys can have your raids. You can find me at my shop selling my wares, or my house tending my crops, or the beach fishing up some dinner, or the golden saucer racing my chocobo, or the... ;)

I sincerely hope you are joking with that statement.

 

 


So you are assuming that you can level a character from 1-50 and get your relic weapon in one month. You also assume that you will be able to grind endgame raids while you are working on your relic?
Completely wrong.
First off getting your relic weapon will not be easy. Its going to be a grind.


Of course they say that. If it's true, and it doesn't just take 2 weeks, then awesome. I hope you are right, the more content the better, the more I feel like I am actively and purposefully working towards a goal, the better.

 

 


Also Yoshida has mentioned that players will need to have multiple lvl 50 jobs to be affective in 24 man raids.

Why? You can't cross job. Why would it matter if you only have one job? I don't understand how having two or more jobs would be more effective than having just one job. Care to enlighten me on this? It's kinda unclear..

 

 


Secondly, you cant raid with a relic weapon. Its not powerful enough. You need a primal weapon. And you cant get a primal without a relic.

An iLvl 90 weapon isn't powerful enough to raid? Where are you getting this information by the way, I am quite curious. I have dug through the beta forums for days and haven't found any of this information. Also, if you are going by the 1.X model, I think things are just a bit different.

 

 


Third, you're going to need a real good, tight group of 24 to raid. If they are as good and tight as you would want them to be, then they are going to expect you to have your basic raid setup. Multiple 50s, and multiple primal weapons.
So realisticly its going to take you a good 2-3 months just to get ready to raid. (Lets not forget you need to materia up all your gear)

I don't believe you... First off, I hit the level cap of 35 on the beta in two nights of playing. I played maybe 6-9 hours each sitting. And at that time I had literally no idea what I was doing. If I were to play again, I could easily hit level 35 in a solid day of playing, from dawn to dusk of course, since I would know where to go, what areas are the most efficient and will net the most Exp/Hour. I would also skip cutscene's and ignore the BS. I am quite confident I could hit level 5 in 4 days. So getting multiple classes to level 50 is no big deal, especially since you earn bonus exp for alternate classes.

 

 


Then you should know that these raids are not easy. Yoshida has said that these raids were designed to out right kill players. He said your average group will need to wipe 7-8 times before they figure raids out. So say you raid 2 nights a week( which is average in mmos) You wipe twice a night... That's two weeks of failure before your guild even figures things out!

Why would you stop raiding after two wipes tho? Back in my day of progression, we would raid till our eyes bled and we couldn't take it anymore. Not "Well, we tried twice, lets call it good." that is just silly lol. And two nights a week? Try 5 nights a week. Two night raid schedule is like, super casual and not hardcore in anyway.

 

 


Lets also not forget these raids are Towers and Labyrinths. Its going to take time to get to the end. And you have to beat the Tower, in order to gear up for the Labyrinth.
Cool Tower first, then Labs.

 

 


So at best its going to be 4-5 months before a good percentage of players clear the endgame at release.
I think you are underestimating hardcore gamers man. I used to play hardcore, like, 80+ hours a week, on a relaxed schedule. I do not fall into the "good percentage" category of casual mmo hoppers.


Funny thing.... Yoshida said they will do major updates every 3 months. So by the time you get to end of endgame there will already be two updates worth of endgame for you to continue on with.

Awesome. More content is always good. But spoonfeeding raid progression is asburd.

 

 


Just more proof that when people who don't know what they are talking about, talk.... they look like idiots.

I do know what I am talking about. Everything I am saying is based, mostly on my own personal opinion of what I have seen/heard/read/experience in the game. Also, if you would site your sources for all of this information, it would be quite nice. I skimmed through the youtube Videos of Mr Happy or w/e his name was, and most of them were about classes, and crafting and materia and what not, and not many of them pertained to the actual game and its content. Thanks tho. If what you say is correct and the game will provide deep and meaningful progression, awesome. I hope it does. But the combat still sucks ass, and it's boring to play. Unless that changes... idk. I know "Don't like it don't play it." I've heard that a thousand times. I also know "they can't cater to everyone" and I understand that. It's fine. I'm just saying, my own personal taste for what makes an MMO fun, stem from the combat system.

 

 

Beta forums and 35 lvls of beta and you know what you are talking about? Interesting...

Well I preorder 1.0.

For the past 15 months I have read every article, seen every live producer video, and every interview done by Yoshida. Incase you don't know he is the Director and Producer of FFXIV ARR. So anything he says is gospel. I can honestly say there is not a person outside the employment of Square Enix who knows more about this game then me.

 1. So if you leveled to 35 I'm sure you realized that most of your better gear has 2-4 materia slots. If you really want the best gear, then you're going to add additional materia beyond the set amount to make you gear stronger. If you are going to be burning through levels as you say, where are you going to get this materia for your gear? You are going to have to buy it and pay another crafter to attach it for you. Where are you going to get the money to afford this? You're not going to make enough from only the "none BS quest" you claim you will be doing. You wont have any crafter or gatherer profession to make money from. So you will have to rely on the generosity of your guild. You will also have to find a guild that has a minimum of 24 hardcore players who will level as fast as you. Otherwise they will have to be legacy players who already have several level 50 jobs and full relic gear along with primal weapons. Why then would they help you.. a noob.. catch up to them?

Lets assume you do find a good group and now its time to fight primals for you primal weapon. You only have one job, a tanking job at max level. With your role being one of the most crucial you aren't going to know the fights. I for one will not have a first time player, with one level 50 tank Ifrit, hardmode when I'm trying to get my primal weapons if I already have friends who also tank and know the fights.

Also the drops aren't 100% You're going to need to fight them a couple of times. You are also assuming that in an 8 man party you are the only one who needs the weapon you would lot on.

 

2. Why is it beneficial to have more than 1 lvl 50 to raid. Say you join a large guild that has 23 people who are ready to raid. You are the 24th and you only have a tanking job. Problem is they already have 4 good tanks who are leaders in the guild and they'd rather you play a class that was less risky to their raid outcome. Or say they other tanks have better gear than you. Or say the group comes to a raid boss where they need 8 Black mages, so you have to sit out cause you only have 1 class.

3. Yes Yoshi P. has said that there is a weapons hierarchy. Its relics, primals, tower and labyrinth in ascending order or power. Especially if you are tanking and everybody else has Primal weapons and you have a measly Relic, how are you going to hold hate against these DDs? Yoshida has said that after you hit 50, you can get your relic weapon and then you can try for a primal. He said you can try to do endgame with lesser gear, but you will find it very difficult to progress. I'm sorry but any real hardcore guild is not going to want a tank who doesn't have the best gear possible for tanking raid bosses.

4. You do realize that no one raids with classes right? Raids are made for Jobs. You need to first level one class to 15, then another to 30 in order to open up a job. You then need to take that job to 50. So that's 95 levels, before you can have your first lvl 50. You should also know that the quest in FFXIV are 1 and done. This isn't like Wow were you can burn through the same quest over and over. So you will need to find other ways to gain exp after you level one job. This is why they increased the exp bonus when leveling a second class. Its harder.

5. Why would you quite after 2 wipes? This isn't a WoW 10 man. Its a 24 man raid. Getting 24 people to stay online and raid for more than 4 hours at a time is not going to be easy. Especially on a consistent basis. How many of these people will have kids they need to put to bed? Wives or girlfriends they need to spend time with? Jobs they need to be up in the morning for? Lets not forget that several of ARRs dungeons have a time limit. You can believe that the raids will also have something of the sort in place. So wipe too much and youre out of time and booted. Also I don't know what games youre raiding in, but you cant raid 5 nights a week. You can only fight Deathwing and the bosses leading up to him a couple times a week. Same for FFXI. AAR will be the same. Where would the challenge be if you could challenge a raid every couple of hours?

80 hours a week of raiding? I swear the more you talk the more it shows you have no idea what you are talking about. There isn't a game you can raid 80 hours a week in. Every mmo I have ever played has either a time limit or a limited number of times you can enter said raid in a week. Which is why 95% of guilds raid 2-3 days a week. 24*3 does not = 80.

 

  Cod_Eye

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/04/09
Posts: 1008

7/19/13 1:19:37 AM#55

Looking at the comments to some of the videos on you tube that Sephrinx has posted, the guy seems to have some anger issues towards certain groups of people to the extent of inciting hatred.  I would take what he says with a dose a salt.  Not worth the energy arguing with.

  Arcticnoon

Novice Member

Joined: 4/20/13
Posts: 146

7/19/13 1:21:49 AM#56
Originally posted by Sephrinx
Originally posted by Murugan

Man I don't see what you are talking about Zizoux, all i see on youtube is:\

 

Sephyrix:

This comment has received too many negative votes (show the comment)

 

hmmmmm No I have read enough from Sephyrix today.

 

Would be nice if we could downvote posts on this forum to make them auto hide after a certain ratio was reached with an option to open them if you still wanted to.

This is a lie, I didn't post anything on his youtube. And you didn't spell Sephrinx right either time, and you obviously just made this up. I don't get it. 

Dude you are lying. I even responded to one of your post on the youtube video. You claimed that the game was good and that you would be playing it 10 hours a day and be at endgame in no time because 4-5 hours a day was for pussies.

I responded " this guy is an idiot. On the one hand he says the game isn't good enough to buy and he wouldn't be playing it, and on the other hand he claims its a good game and he will be playing it 10 hours a day"

  Sephrinx

Novice Member

Joined: 7/13/13
Posts: 68

7/19/13 1:42:58 AM#57
Originally posted by Arcticnoon
Beta forums and 35 lvls of beta and you know what you are talking about? Interesting...

Well I preorder 1.0.

For the past 15 months I have read every article, seen every live producer video, and every interview done by Yoshida. Incase you don't know he is the Director and Producer of FFXIV ARR. So anything he says is gospel. I can honestly say there is not a person outside the employment of Square Enix who knows more about this game then me.

 1. So if you leveled to 35 I'm sure you realized that most of your better gear has 2-4 materia slots. If you really want the best gear, then you're going to add additional materia beyond the set amount to make you gear stronger. If you are going to be burning through levels as you say, where are you going to get this materia for your gear? You are going to have to buy it and pay another crafter to attach it for you. Where are you going to get the money to afford this? You're not going to make enough from only the "none BS quest" you claim you will be doing. You wont have any crafter or gatherer profession to make money from. So you will have to rely on the generosity of your guild. You will also have to find a guild that has a minimum of 24 hardcore players who will level as fast as you. Otherwise they will have to be legacy players who already have several level 50 jobs and full relic gear along with primal weapons. Why then would they help you.. a noob.. catch up to them?

Lets assume you do find a good group and now its time to fight primals for you primal weapon. You only have one job, a tanking job at max level. With your role being one of the most crucial you aren't going to know the fights. I for one will not have a first time player, with one level 50 tank Ifrit, hardmode when I'm trying to get my primal weapons if I already have friends who also tank and know the fights.

Also the drops aren't 100% You're going to need to fight them a couple of times. You are also assuming that in an 8 man party you are the only one who needs the weapon you would lot on.

Yes, I do know who Yoshida is, I've watched only a few of his interviews tho, i'm not as knowledgeable in this game as you, obviously.

Let's pretend that this game is amazing, It's everything I want in an MMO. I am going to do everything I can in order to first maximize my exp/hour and get the classes to level 50 asap. After I have a handful of classes and jobs, I would start doing the pre-prog 8man raids, Hardmode dungeons, and whatever else is available to freshly level 50 characters. You mentioned the generosity of the guild, which would play a large part in a lot of aspects, such as getting that materia you talked about and having it attached. Of course, I would repay them with deeds and coin along the way as I could. 

I really must ask, why would you not take a level 50 tank who is inexperienced? They need to learn the ropes too. You can't just know the fight, unless someone throws the fight up on tankspot, but idk if there is an equivalent website for this game or not. But in order to succeed, one must try. As far as how primals work, I have no idea, I have never heard of such a thing before just now. So that topic is very vague for me, I just know it is some sort of boss fight with loot.

 

2. Why is it beneficial to have more than 1 lvl 50 to raid. Say you join a large guild that has 23 people who are ready to raid. You are the 24th and you only have a tanking job. Problem is they already have 4 good tanks who are leaders in the guild and they'd rather you play a class that was less risky to their raid outcome. Or say they other tanks have better gear than you. Or say the group comes to a raid boss where they need 8 Black mages, so you have to sit out cause you only have 1 class.

I will, however, have each class to max level, there is no reason not to, but for the sake of debate I'm not saying it isn't beneficial to have multiple level 50 jobs geared and ready to go, what I am saying is that it shouldn't be required to raid. The only two Roles I'm going to (look forward) do are tank and heal, dps are a dime a dozen and I see no purpose trying to fight for a dps role, even tho I have always done quite well as DPS. (Rep dat Rogue Mage and Boomkin Mmm sexy)

 

3. Yes Yoshi P. has said that there is a weapons hierarchy. Its relics, primals, tower and labyrinth in ascending order or power. Especially if you are tanking and everybody else has Primal weapons and you have a measly Relic, how are you going to hold hate against these DDs? Yoshida has said that after you hit 50, you can get your relic weapon and then you can try for a primal. He said you can try to do endgame with lesser gear, but you will find it very difficult to progress. I'm sorry but any real hardcore guild is not going to want a tank who doesn't have the best gear possible for tanking raid bosses.

Awesome. And yeah I know how that goes. Tanks usually are one of the most gear dependent roles, considerin they are all about damage mitigation and every stat helps. They also need a strong weapon to hold aggro, which is also crucial. I have tanked a lot in my time, and it's by far the most thrilling and amazing role to fill. It takes a certain kind of player to do, since it's literally the entire raids weight on your shoulders, if you slip up and make a mistake, chances are it's your fault. You lost aggro, didn't turn the boss, didn't kit it away etc etc. There are times when the healer or the dps made an error, but either way they blame the tank lol. And I like the way that sounds, they have set order of progression.

4. You do realize that no one raids with classes right? Raids are made for Jobs. You need to first level one class to 15, then another to 30 in order to open up a job. You then need to take that job to 50. So that's 95 levels, before you can have your first lvl 50. You should also know that the quest in FFXIV are 1 and done. This isn't like Wow were you can burn through the same quest over and over. So you will need to find other ways to gain exp after you level one job. This is why they increased the exp bonus when leveling a second class. Its harder.

Yeah I know, your Job is determined by what Classes you have and what not. I am aware of the basics but not the specifics. I have a quite lengthy post that covers ways to level alternate classes as well, I'm quite aware of the ways in which to level them. There are significantly less quests, bu you've got Leve's FATE's and the hunting log to get you up to 15, and then you also have the option of dungeons.

5. Why would you quite after 2 wipes? This isn't a WoW 10 man. Its a 24 man raid. Getting 24 people to stay online and raid for more than 4 hours at a time is not going to be easy. Especially on a consistent basis. How many of these people will have kids they need to put to bed? Wives or girlfriends they need to spend time with? Jobs they need to be up in the morning for? Lets not forget that several of ARRs dungeons have a time limit. You can believe that the raids will also have something of the sort in place. So wipe too much and youre out of time and booted. Also I don't know what games youre raiding in, but you cant raid 5 nights a week. You can only fight Deathwing and the bosses leading up to him a couple times a week. Same for FFXI. AAR will be the same. Where would the challenge be if you could challenge a raid every couple of hours?

I don't know man, the guild I used to run with were pretty dedicated. Yeah, there are times when we would call it early, but more often then not, probably 75% of the time we would push and push and push until we agreed that we will try again later, and call it a night. 

I had no idea they had a time limit. That seems quite ridiculous in all hoensty. I never fought Deathwing by the way, I quit a few months before his patch launched. I did pretty much everything up to that point, I think I quit just as the Firelands were released. And I know you can't take on a raid every couple of hours lol. Most raids are on a weekly timer, that gives you a week to progress, or in WoW's case, they implemented a Progression Extender that made your raids not reset.

80 hours a week of raiding? I swear the more you talk the more it shows you have no idea what you are talking about. There isn't a game you can raid 80 hours a week in. Every mmo I have ever played has either a time limit or a limited number of times you can enter said raid in a week. Which is why 95% of guilds raid 2-3 days a week. 24*3 does not = 80.

I have never reached a time limit in a raid before, other than the weekly raid reset. There are "enrage" timers that I have come across, but I don't think that is what you are talking about. I'm pretty sure you could raid for 80 hours a week in WoW. Clearing Karazhan SSC, SWP and a quick Gruul's run would easily take up 80 hours, and that isn't even half of the raids for that Expac. Hell, Ulduar alone took the better part of an entire weeks raid schedule until we over geared it. 

 

  Sephrinx

Novice Member

Joined: 7/13/13
Posts: 68

7/19/13 1:44:21 AM#58
Originally posted by Cod_Eye

Looking at the comments to some of the videos on you tube that Sephrinx has posted, the guy seems to have some anger issues towards certain groups of people to the extent of inciting hatred.  I would take what he says with a dose a salt.  Not worth the energy arguing with.

Please, elaborate. Whether it be in a PM or here on this forum, I want to know what you are talking about.

Originally posted by Arcticnoon

Dude you are lying. I even responded to one of your post on the youtube video. You claimed that the game was good and that you would be playing it 10 hours a day and be at endgame in no time because 4-5 hours a day was for pussies.

I responded " this guy is an idiot. On the one hand he says the game isn't good enough to buy and he wouldn't be playing it, and on the other hand he claims its a good game and he will be playing it 10 hours a day"

 

Read my reply. You didn't read what I said right. This is exactly what I originally said, and I quote;

"5 hours a day is pussy s**t. If it's a good MMO and I don't have a busy work schedule, I will play that s**t 10 hours a day easy. I WILL have a guild and I WILL hit level? 50 within a week. I hit 35 on the beta in TWO NIGHTS taking about 16 hours total."

At no point did I say this game was good, and at no point did I saw I was planning on playing it ten hours a day. And yea, 4 hours a day is childs play for MMO's. I can understand that if you were to just glance at my post, which you probably did, then you would think what you thought. But if you would actually take the 8 or so seconds to actually read all 50 words of it or so, you would know that what you said was not based anywhere near the truth. 

You just made yourself look like the idiot man. I really don't like this trolling crap you people are doing, but I feel the ened to reply because you are making me look bad when and defaming my character. 

  Yaevindusk

Elite Member

Joined: 9/05/10
Posts: 1147

Logic, reason and fact do not supersede human nature. Ignorance reigns without justice.

7/19/13 1:55:27 AM#59
Originally posted by simulacra
Originally posted by Murugan
Originally posted by drivendawn
Originally posted by ZizouX

I feel really bad for linking to the video.  I thought maybe it's a public service announcment for people who had no idea what's waiting for us.  However, it looks like people on this thread have decided to go the video and start posting some really offensive comments to the creator of the video.

 

I kinda feel bad about it now.

 

 

No reason to feel bad, haters gonna hate. Unfortunately for some reason some stick around to hate longer for no reason. 

........TROLLS  there i said it.

Man I don't see what you are talking about Zizoux, all i see on youtube is:\

 

Sephyrix:

This comment has received too many negative votes (show the comment)

 

hmmmmm No I have read enough from Sephyrix today.

 

Would be nice if we could downvote posts on this forum to make them auto hide after a certain ratio was reached with an option to open them if you still wanted to.

 

I wholeheartedly agree

 

Some people just can't won't grow up and act like adults.  Personally I try not to quote them anymore, and just make general statements because it's so sad and I really pity them for needing to stick around and rehash hatred.  It wastes their time, it annoys others and overall it's just (in my opinion) a pitiable act.  Stating an opinion once is great, but sticking around to repeat it over and over while presumably originally making the account just for this is really, really sad.

:(

 

I want to give these people a virtual hug.  It's clear something went wrong to exceedingly anger them or make them act this way.  But don't feel bad for trying to help others with information; some are just want to tear other's good deeds down with the way they act.  It's just the way the internet is, even if it is in our opinion a disgraceful and disrespectful way to act.

When faced with strife or discontent, the true nature of a man is brought forth. It is then when we see the character of the individual. It is then we are able to tell if he is mature enough to grin and bare it, or subject his fellow man to his complaints and woes.

  Arcticnoon

Novice Member

Joined: 4/20/13
Posts: 146

7/19/13 2:06:28 AM#60
Originally posted by Sephrinx
Originally posted by Arcticnoon

Youre forgetting this is not a 1 player game. Its an mmo.

What level would your esper be after you found him? ( you wouldn't "find" him because you could just google where it was a week after release) Level 1? Level 50?

Your Esper would be level one, and they would be acquired through a series of quests and dungeons, starting at level 20. It's not pokemon, you don't just be going out and picking them up like a Mineral Deposit. Espers then gain Exp from combat and quests, just like you would. Of course the amount they gain and how fast they level, as well as their level cap, would be entirely determinable by SE. They could only go from level 1-10, they could go up to level 100. Who knows how they would implement it. I could go on about how i would do it, but I'll spare you the read.

No level 50 player wants to level a lvl 1 esper. That's just dumb. If youre 50 and lvling a lvl 50 esper, how high would it go? 50 would have to be the cap or the game would be unbalance. You cant run around at lvl 50 with a lvl 60 pet.

How is it dumb? If I had the chance, I would jump all over it, I don't get it.  It's not a pet, it's more of an item. Think of it like a Soul Crystal. Each player would get one Esper slot. Each esper has their own innate attribute bonuses and abilities they grant you from equipping them. It's not a pet.

Secondly espers (summons) are only for summoners. It would be the only job that could use youre genius idea. Again unbalanced.

You obviously don't understand what I am trying to convey with the system of Espers. I will break it down for you. This is all simply rhetoric and is completely made up off the spot right now, bear with me. Each esper is unique to a class trainer. Once you are level with that class, you can accept the first quest and get your first esper from each respective class trainer. Every 10 levels you are presented with a new available esper. As well as at level 50, as well as each hardmode dungeon has their own Esper Quest. Each esper requires a different task and materials to obtain. Below is an example. 

 Mike the Conjurer hits level 15. He goes back to his Class Guild leader, and the present him with a quest, "Espers and Advancement." He accepts the quest, and is now off to a Dungeon to search for magical fairy dust, and crystalized mana. Once he has obtained the required materials, he heads back to town and talks to his Class Trainer. He then recieves a "Hollow Esper" that can be augmented, and enhanced by the follow up quest, "Esper-gize." He goes out to the next dungeon, and obtains certain materials and more crystallized mana. Upon return, the Class Trainer channel a magical incantation, and creates a fully revived Esper. Let's say he got the Carbuncle Esper. Congrats Mike the Conjurer! You can now equip espers and accept quests from various Class Trainers!

. Once able to equip an esper, and Item Slot in your Character screen opens up. You then are able to select from a drop-down list of espers you have obtained. Each esper starts at level one, and gains exp through combat, only while it is equipped. Depending on the espers level, it grants bonus stats and abilities. Each esper is unique and is bound to the player. It is not a pet. It cannot be summoned, unless you are an Arcanist, in which case Espers would be even more badass.

I hope that cleared things up a bit.

Leveling and finding materia is just as bad of an idea. The only way you could "find" materia is through a quest and doing that over and over would be just boring.

Getting new spells and abilities as you level materia is also silly. Why not just level your job? Once you hit 51 or 52 you get new abilities.

How would you tell level 50s apart? You'd be checking to see what level their materia was before you partied up with them.

Maybe you should stick to one player games.

You are hopeless lmao. No one said they should implement FF7 Style Materia. So I'm just going to ignore this part of your post.

Okay when I hear espers I think of FFXII. This is what they called the summons. As far as materia they only two games to ever have it are ff7 and ff14, so if you are going to bring up names from old ff games its safe to assume thats what you are talking about.

Secondly I don't undertand the desire to level vanity slots items, when you can level your chocobo to fight along side of you. Also level 50 will not be the cap for very long. This is not like GW2 where they set the cap so high because its probably going to stay there for a long time.

FFXI released at lvl 50 and went to 75 in a little over a year. So if you level materia or espers they wouldn't be worth much after the first level cap increase.

 

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