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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Religious and LGBT Guilds, Yay or Nay?

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352 posts found
  maplestone

Novice Member

Joined: 12/10/08
Posts: 3109

7/18/13 4:52:06 PM#41

ug.

That about sums up my feelings on the issue.

I normally am pretty firm about "leave the real world agendas out of the game please", but I can sympathize that there are always a few issues where restricting a real world attribute from the game feels like an agenda in itself.

So I say just leave me out of the decision.  I don't intend to be a problem either way.

 

 

 

 

  tinuelle

Novice Member

Joined: 12/10/08
Posts: 290

It's all about pushing the right buttons

7/18/13 4:53:41 PM#42

These kind of discussions in our guild chat gets you benched from raid first, if it continues and folks complain your out.

 

Roleplay sentric guilds like yours, where you are kicked if you dont act in a certain role within pre-defined boundries (in other words you must behave in a certain way imaginative or non-imaginative) are in no way different from the guild types discussed here.

  ElRenmazuo

Elite Member

Joined: 10/28/06
Posts: 4105

7/18/13 4:57:13 PM#43
Originally posted by immodium

What I find unusual is why someone would play a game and think "I need to get my sexual orientation/religious/political views involved somehow"

Same reason why some guilds only let people who are over a specific age.  So people can relate to others in their guild by having common interests.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19506

7/18/13 5:05:24 PM#44

Gosh .. we are talking about gaming guilds.

Why would you care how others organize their guilds?

  Vrika

Elite Member

Joined: 10/03/05
Posts: 2027

7/18/13 5:09:35 PM#45

Everyone has the right to pick their friends, and be in a guild with like-minded individuals who are fun to play with. I can totally understand Christians seeking a Christian friendly guild, or LGBT people seeking a LGBT friendly guild.

But seeking like-minded friends to play with can also easily turn into segregating all others based on some criteria that should have no in-game impact. If I start to feel like a Christian guild is formed so that Christians can exclude all others and play without them, then I don't see why I should give members of that guild the same respect I normally give to all fellow players I encounter while playing.

  Robokapp

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/15/09
Posts: 4590

The only luck I had today was to have you as my opponent.

7/18/13 5:12:56 PM#46

if a LBGT guild can exist, can its polar opposite also exist ?

 

if no, then my vote is "Nay" to the LBGT one out of fairness. similarly with religion...can an atheist guild exist ?

 

while behind closed doors these guilds can exist, can they freely advertise ?

 

sorry...NAY.

  SavageHorizon

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/14/13
Posts: 1563

7/18/13 5:14:36 PM#47
They can do what they want as long as they don't talk to me or fill up the general chat with their speech. Don't try and push their shit on others, truly I don't see why they can't leave that shit at the door. If they were truly happy with themselves they wouldn't feel the need to make some sort of point in an mmo.

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  Dhaenon

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/10/12
Posts: 41

"What came first, the music or the misery?"

7/18/13 5:17:44 PM#48

I believe people have to the right to include or exclude whoever they want. Sadly, this is not the civilized world I would hope it would be, where everyone just accepts each other regardless. Less hatred, more understanding, would be nice. However, until we reach actual civilization, I think people have the aforementioned right. Most MMO's already have religion in them, so why not have more? Sex is something everything does, so that is there too. People will always judge others, that is just going to happen because humans fear each other. It would be really nice if there was a place where everyone could go to be themselves, for some it is hating others, for some it is loving others. 

  immodium

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/03/07
Posts: 1280

7/18/13 5:28:26 PM#49
Originally posted by tkreep
Originally posted by immodium

What I find unusual is why someone would play a game and think "I need to get my sexual orientation/religious/political views involved somehow"

Same reason why some guilds only let people who are over a specific age.  So people can relate to others in their guild by having common interests.

Common interests? There is only one interest. (Unless you come across a homsexual, catholic, and liberal guild).

When people group themselves(segregate) in this way and claim they are sharing common interests. Other than what they prefer to fuck, what god they follow and if they are right wing, what interest do they have that that they can't share with people who arn't gay, who arn't catholic and who arn't democratic?

It's not like a brony's only guild. These subjects do touch people a bit more deeply than that.

TBH, I don't actually care (just find it little odd) if they create these guilds and talk about that stuff in private. It's when it brought up in public chats. Luckily, they do include an ignore button.

I'm a hetrosexual man, I would never think I couldn't share common interests with a homosexual just because of his sexual orientation.

  markh777

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/29/08
Posts: 111

7/18/13 5:31:57 PM#50
Who cares...let people be people and group/guild together if they want...as in real life "if it doesn't directly affect you...so what"
  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 18996

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

7/18/13 5:34:09 PM#51

No problem at all with it.  Same as with people who advertise they are a guild of hard core raiders, pvp fanatics, server first specialists or stoners just looking for a good time. 

Let people associate for the reasons they like, we are all free to join or ignore them as we please.

"In these forums 'honest' seems to be a symonym for 'hates the game just like I do'" - ohioastro
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
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  sunshadow21

Novice Member

Joined: 8/15/04
Posts: 355

7/18/13 5:36:54 PM#52
Originally posted by stayBlind
Would anyone have a problem with an exclusively NON-LBGT guild?

Generally being anti something is a lot harder to pull off than being for something. Negativity in general tends to be more problematic, as its very easy to become extremely disrespectful when you start from a negative position, so on those grounds, I would say that the short answer is probably yes. The long answer is that it could be done, but you'd likely spend more time avoiding problems than what it would be worth given that most people play games to relax and not to focus on real life social commentary. That being said, it shoud be allowed just as much as the pro LGBT guilds should be; after all, there is always a chance that enough people want to make it happen that it would live, and they deserve their right to do so as long as they keep problems with others to a minimum.

-----------------

On the topic as a whole,  I can understand the impulse for themed guilds even though I never have felt the need personally. Even if you don't discuss real life issues, its a lot more pleasant to be able to make passing comments that reflect your point of view without getting into massive arguments and/or having to screen comments to avoid said arguments.

  Robokapp

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/15/09
Posts: 4590

The only luck I had today was to have you as my opponent.

7/18/13 5:39:09 PM#53
Originally posted by sunshadow21
Originally posted by stayBlind
Would anyone have a problem with an exclusively NON-LBGT guild?

Generally being anti something is a lot harder to pull off than being for something. Negativity in general tends to be more problematic, as its very easy to become extremely disrespectful when you start from a negative position, so on those grounds, I would say that the short answer is probably yes.

exclusively S-Guild ? :)

 

p.s. why is there no S in LBGT ? seems to include everything except the big one. Wouldn't that be what true acceptance looks like ? just a thought that popped up.

  maji

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/15/04
Posts: 1885

7/18/13 5:40:18 PM#54

I think such guilds make sense. After all, ideally, you get to know the people a bit and get to like them, and game together every now and then. And in MMORPGs, if you are in voice chat, you sometimes also talk about this and that.

If I'd meet there a hardcore nazi, I'd either demand that the person leaves the guild or I'd quit it myself. Same if someone expresses hatred towards gays or whatever. Not because I'm gay, but because I strongly believe that everybody has the right to become happy, and do everything necessary to reach that aim, as long as nobody gets hurt.

If I'd meet there a strongly religious person, I wouldn't really care about it. Everybody has his/her own beliefs or the lack thereof. If I'd be in a guild where about everybody would be of the same religion and constantly talk about it, I'd probably get annoyed, and leave.

I mean, there've been guilds for people of a certain age (30+ for example), there've been guilds just for women. So why restrict people only to certain themes?

Let's play Fallen Earth (blind, 300 episodes)

Let's play Guild Wars 2 (blind, 45 episodes)

  immodium

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/03/07
Posts: 1280

7/18/13 5:41:00 PM#55
Originally posted by Kyleran

No problem at all with it.  Same as with people who advertise they are a guild of hard core raiders, pvp fanatics, server first specialists or stoners just looking for a good time. 

Let people associate for the reasons they like, we are all free to join or ignore them as we please.

All the example guilds you mentioned are game releated. Actually, the "Stoners looking for a good time" is worded rather ambiguously. :)

  Anev

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/05
Posts: 11

7/18/13 5:45:38 PM#56

I find it funny how many people replied with "keep their personal stuff out of the mix" or "leave it at the door" or ... well, there are lots of responses and I'm sure you get the idea.

The idea of an MMO is to meet others, to become friends and have fun playing.  If you are told to keep a part of your life ... silent ... then doesn't that defeat the purpose of playing an MMO?  I would hope that those I'm playing with like me for who I am not who they have created some image of me based on my nifty avatar/character on the screen - trust me, I don't look like no wizard in real life.

The fact is, guilds that cater to a specific type of player, not play style, can at times give a person some others where their version of "normal" isn't going to be ignored or attacked.  Simply reading over the honest replies here proves that point when you think about some gay or lesbian person who wants to chat about their boyfriend or girlfriend ... because we all like to talk about those we love to those we are friends with right?

Religion is yet another touchy thing especially as games move from one country to mixing in many others and our religious beliefs are just as personal as our discussions about our wife or husbands.  We want to share and be friendly. 

This space reserved for moments of sanity!


Veteran of: UO, SWG, EQII, COH, LOTRO & RIFT!

  immodium

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/03/07
Posts: 1280

7/18/13 5:46:03 PM#57
Originally posted by Robokapp
Originally posted by sunshadow21
Originally posted by stayBlind
Would anyone have a problem with an exclusively NON-LBGT guild?

Generally being anti something is a lot harder to pull off than being for something. Negativity in general tends to be more problematic, as its very easy to become extremely disrespectful when you start from a negative position, so on those grounds, I would say that the short answer is probably yes.

exclusively S-Guild ? :)

 

p.s. why is there no S in LBGT ? seems to include everything except the big one. Wouldn't that be what true acceptance looks like ? just a thought that popped up.

This is the thing. Can't straight people have common interests with lesbian/gay/bi/trans person? Sex is that important to someone that they are not willing to share common interests.

 

EDIT: Unless straight people are allowed to join, just be warned it might get pretty gay in guild chat. :)

  Ramonski7

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 5/21/03
Posts: 2693

"A wise man has something to say, but a fool just has to say something."

7/18/13 5:47:34 PM#58

I tend to frown upon things like this. Reason being is that honestly, if you allow these types of  guilds to form from real life issues, then you have to allow them all. And who wants to deal with intolerance in a vehicle for escapism when you just finished dealing with it in real life. I mean it's one thing to form guilds based on gaming schedules, languages or time zones. You know things that could change at a moments notice. But to based them on things of a more permanent basis like race, religion and sexual orientation is down right discriminatory! Even if the guilds are suppose to serve as safe havens for a particular group.

 

For me the whole freakin game is suppose to serve as a safe haven for all its players and to further segregate its population is doing a great disservice to the spirit of mmorpgs. Curbing or filtering bad behavior is one thing, and we all should be doing it, but allowing lines to be drawn from deep rooted issues is not the answer. No matter how noble it starts out as.


"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5671

7/18/13 5:51:06 PM#59
Originally posted by Robokapp
Originally posted by sunshadow21
Originally posted by stayBlind
Would anyone have a problem with an exclusively NON-LBGT guild?

Generally being anti something is a lot harder to pull off than being for something. Negativity in general tends to be more problematic, as its very easy to become extremely disrespectful when you start from a negative position, so on those grounds, I would say that the short answer is probably yes.

exclusively S-Guild ? :)

p.s. why is there no S in LBGT ? seems to include everything except the big one. Wouldn't that be what true acceptance looks like ? just a thought that popped up.

Except every single guild that I have seen in my games that has billed themselves and LGBT or Christian have modified that with "friendly".  They're not exclusive, or at least don't bill themselves so.

So I don't really see a problem with a guild billing themselves as straight friendly, as opposed to straight exclusive.  The problem with that guild is the message it is sending and the problems I see arising from that.  An LGBT friendly guild is sending the signal to that demographic that there is a safe place to play where they can express their point of view without negative repercussions.  A guild billing themselves as straight friendly, to me, isn't sending the signal that this is a safe place to present yourself and express your point of view.  It is sending the signal that this is a great place to hook up and meet the opposite sex.  I think that is because the norm is that expressing hetero views is already safe and the norm.  There is no need to create a safe haven where you fear others telling you to keep it all to yourself or "don't ask don't tell".  If the situation were reversed and homosexuality were the common norm and hetero was not, and hetero people were persecuted then I could see the need for something like that.

In short the needs and freedoms of the minority and marginalized are different from the common and norm.  As a straight white 46 year old male, I have to worry far less about what I say and what people will react to than any group that is in the minority or marginalized.  Hopefully I got that out in a way that makes some sort of sense.

I think a mind wipe so people could play an mmo like it was their first time again, would be easier to build than a new mmo people here would actually like. - DamonVile

  whisperwynd

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/22/06
Posts: 1365

Think for yourselves and let others enjoy the priviledge to do so as well.

7/18/13 6:40:09 PM#60

So, we started with religion-based guilds, to eating habits, to humans not meant to eat meat, to maybe God didn't want us to eat meat...interesting thread.

We're coming full circle to why these types of guilds are very 'Iffy' in our entertainment.  

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