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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Religious and LGBT Guilds, Yay or Nay?

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352 posts found
  czombie

Novice Member

Joined: 4/11/12
Posts: 83

7/18/13 3:48:24 PM#21
This doesn't bother me at all.  The more an MMO reflects actual human experience, the better.  Although an outright racial supremacist or anti-gay guild might bother me, I'd probably just choose to ignore it.  I've seen enough racist or homophobic things on MMO chat channels that if it really bothered me, I would have stopped playing MMOs long ago.
  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5763

7/18/13 3:50:37 PM#22
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by immodium

What I find unusual is why someone would play a game and think "I need to get my sexual orientation/religious/political views involved somehow"

This. /thread.

Games are not tools for religious, political or sexual propaganda, and anyone trying to use them as such should get a well deserved ban. I don't play game to have to endure the bullshit that is already plaguing "real world".

Well, that is sort of the point of those guilds no?  They can freely let their lifestyles and personalities be who they are without having to filter for you and you don't have to filter who you are.  The real world always infringes on the game.

It can be something as simple as:

Roy: "I can't make the raid next week, my partner, Mark, is going to the dentist and I have to chauffeur them."

Kevin: "Can we schedule raid days for Saturday?  I have church on Sundays and I'm in the choir."

Melissa: "My wife and I just adopted a baby.  We're going to have a guild event to celebrate."

Believe it or not some people feel compelled to address these differences in a very vocal and confrontational manner.  This doesn't happen when more mainstream people mention their lives.  You're not going to hear an outcry from a male/female couple mentioning a celebration for their newborn.  My guilds have had several congrats or celebrations for these sorts of events.  The same goes with religious stuff.

I'm not interested in joining a themed guild, but I understand why others are.

Curse you AquaScum!

  DamonVile

Elite Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4792

7/18/13 3:50:55 PM#23
I think those guilds are a good idea. It keeps all the people who can't leave that stuff at the door away from everyone that can.

There's a saying about evolution and why we have two eyes and two ears but only one mouth. Clearly it didn't see the internet coming or it never would have given us ten fingers to type with.

  Rzep

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/25/09
Posts: 664

7/18/13 3:51:45 PM#24

This is a story? From the begining of guilds in game there were those that allowed anyone in and others which had guidelines on who could join. Nothing wrong with people choosing who they want to play with. I imagine that my "I hate religion" viewpoint would anger religious folk and maybe shift the focus from enjoying the game to arguing pointlessly with me. I understand people wanting to play with like minded individuals. As long as the thing, like someone, said isn't militant or a hate group it's normal.

  Amana

MMORPG.COM Staff

Joined: 1/03/11
Posts: 2365

7/18/13 3:51:55 PM#25
Just chiming in to ask that this not get into a big debate over any of these topics.  Please discuss it in context and be civil. If things get out of hand, we will shut it down.

To give feedback on moderation, contact community@mmorpg.com

  Four0Six

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/18/11
Posts: 1098

7/18/13 3:53:21 PM#26
Originally posted by Amana
Just chiming in to ask that this not get into a big debate over any of these topics.  Please discuss it in context and be civil. If things get out of hand, we will shut it down.

Seems legit and civil so far :)

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

7/18/13 3:54:55 PM#27

Kind of a can't-win topic, isn't it?

"Have you stopped beating your wife yet?" Some questions just don't have any easy, simple, forum=ready answers.

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  flizzer

Elite Member

Joined: 11/10/12
Posts: 1212

7/18/13 3:56:54 PM#28
I didnt even care about it until I saw this thread and I guess now I still don't really care about it. 
  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5763

7/18/13 3:57:00 PM#29
Originally posted by DamonVile
I think those guilds are a good idea. It keeps all the people who can't leave that stuff at the door away from everyone that can.

I think that's the point, none of us can really leave all the stuff that we are "at the door".  Do we really want to?  While still being respectful of others and our community do we really want to have to shutter who we are and walk on eggshells so others aren't offended?

Some people of every type like to blab everything about what they are and do.  I think most of us just don't want to have to filter who we are or watch our every word.  There is a big difference between the two in my opinion.

Curse you AquaScum!

  immodium

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/03/07
Posts: 1289

7/18/13 3:57:53 PM#30
Originally posted by Foomerang

 


Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard

Originally posted by immodium What I find unusual is why someone would play a game and think "I need to get my sexual orientation/religious/political views involved somehow"
This. /thread.

 

Games are not tools for religious, political or sexual propaganda, and anyone trying to use them as such should get a well deserved ban. I don't play game to have to endure the bullshit that is already plaguing "real world".


 

Yet you are constantly involving your own views and don't even realize it. Of course when someone has a different view than your own it becomes a "plague" on your sense of reality. That is, unfortunately, how our society is hardwired in this day and age.

Not really as when these topics are brought up in public chats boths views regarding the issue are voiced.

  Tofke

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/26/07
Posts: 210

Sometimes I wish I was a balloon!

7/18/13 3:58:39 PM#31

I think guilds whom run a charter and enforce common decency and freedom on personal matters would have a greater contribution than anything exclusive.

Why shield yourself off or try to create an environment with like minded ones. To me that sounds boring and won't get you much further as a person or in life. Tho I'd also assume that wouldn't be the easiest road to chose.

 

Ah well live and let live, I just don't see the need or benefit in it.

  Khalathwyr

Tipster

Joined: 6/02/04
Posts: 3151

Google is your friend.

7/18/13 4:04:39 PM#32
Originally posted by immodium

What I find unusual is why someone would play a game and think "I need to get my sexual orientation/religious/political views involved somehow"

It's not so much that many of them think that they need to do this as you say.

 

It's more that most guilds have a voice chat and even in the ones they don't you are going to have, and it is what it is, some white folks (and you all make up the majority of gamers) who think they are funny by making jokes about people of color, homosexuals or any other group.

That's why many of those guilds exists is to enjoy the game and to get away from those, to them, hurtful "jokes" and judgements.

As far as the Christian (and now other religious) guilds, I don't agree that it's for those reasons above. They are exclusive, typically wanting to avoid the others in the above mentioned groups for a handful of reasons. There may be a tiny few that truly organize for gaming fellowship, but they aren't anywhere near the norm.

Those are my thoughts, anyway.

"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."

Kickstarter 1 / Naysayers 0

  JamesP

Novice Member

Joined: 1/04/06
Posts: 312

7/18/13 4:04:41 PM#33
Originally posted by lizardbones

This article on Massively: http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/07/18/ask-massively-taboo-topics/

talks about the subject of "themed" guilds, in particular, guilds with a religious focus or a LGBT focus. Really, the guild is focused on gaming, but you know what I mean.

It has never occurred to me to be offended or really even care about this type of thing. If people want a guild that's friendly towards a particular religion or orientation, as long as they aren't militant, exclusive based on that religion or orientation and as long as they have good taste in public chat, I don't feel like i need to spend a lot of time thinking about it. Until I read the article.

It seems awhile back that Blizzard was going to ban guilds based on a LBGT charter, but backlash from the world or the gaming community caused them to reverse the decision quickly. This honestly surprises me. Given the nature of WoW's chat channels, I'm kind of surprised they would even consider that stance.

So, what do you think? Do religious guilds ruin your immersion in a game? What about LBGT guilds? Are there even that many guilds that advertise themselves based on a given religion or orientation?

Also, I realize this is a topic that could go south quickly, but in the spirit of conversation, try to avoid talking about specific religions or people, and focus on guilds. If things do go pear shaped, my apologies.

I am a born again Christian... I find my self staying away from Guilds in games because I don't want to be a part of the Adult related and/or kinds of Language you could find in Guilds... I've often thought about starting a Guild for other Christians just to give us a place where we can discuss the issues that concern us while gaming together... Has nothing to do with propaganda or anything else just about how I personally choose to spend my time and the types of Conversation I'm willing to be involved in.

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  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10633

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

 
OP  7/18/13 4:06:33 PM#34


Originally posted by stayBlind
Would anyone have a problem with an exclusively NON-LBGT guild?


I feel certain they would. The guilds I've seen though are not exclusive. Any guild that's exclusive for reasons other than game play is probably a bad idea. For instance, a hardcore raiders only guild with strict entrance requirements would be fine.

A post above mentioned "like minded people", and I think that's the point of a most of the guilds that advertise a preference. They want "like minded people". For a LBGT guild if that happens to be a hetero person who likes the people in the guild, then that hetero person would be a member.

The other thing I think it does is make sure that people have some idea of what they are getting into. I am non-religious. I would even go so far as to say anti-religious, so joining a guild full of like minded religious people probably wouldn't be a good fit. I'd know ahead of time to not bother joining. It saves everyone a bit of time.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  Quirhid

Elite Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 5538

Correcting wrongs on the Internet...

7/18/13 4:12:39 PM#35
Originally posted by Four0Six
[...] Really all a LGBT guild wants is to not hear "fag" in VOIP. Just as the religious guild doesn't want to hear cussing. They both are trying  to avoid immature A-Holes that are going to stir up trouble in the guild. How about we stop being offended because some group we didn't want to be involved with in the first place doesn't want us? Besides, if you allow guilds to be so labeled, it frees up the Moderators to keep "hot-button" issues out of general.

I can't help but think there's a hint of irony in your post there.

As much as I might want to find like minded people and avoid the rest, you want to do the same. In the end it is only a matter of who is trying to portray themselves as a victim. Discrimination goes both ways: You might think I am a dirty infidel, and I might think you're just bat shit crazy. Or I don't want to hear your proselytizing and you might not hear me criticizing your faith. I am talking hypothetical of course.

Point is, games are the wrong place to bring up such things. I am just not that interested. And if you start opening up, you're just asking to be trolled. Don't do it.

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  DamonVile

Elite Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4792

7/18/13 4:14:26 PM#36
Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by DamonVile
I think those guilds are a good idea. It keeps all the people who can't leave that stuff at the door away from everyone that can.

I think that's the point, none of us can really leave all the stuff that we are "at the door".  Do we really want to?  While still being respectful of others and our community do we really want to have to shutter who we are and walk on eggshells so others aren't offended?

Some people of every type like to blab everything about what they are and do.  I think most of us just don't want to have to filter who we are or watch our every word.  There is a big difference between the two in my opinion.

I think we agree ?  People are far more tolerant of people who just blab about stuff over people who ...inflict their lifestyle on others. Personally I see a big difference between "my partner and I just adopted our first child and I'm so excited " and " hey guys you've been going on about XXXX for an hr now, would you mind giving it a rest I'm trying to enjoy killing these priests" <--ha!

The first example should really be able to fit into any guild....the second should probably find a guild that has other people who care about whatever xxxx happens to be.

There's a saying about evolution and why we have two eyes and two ears but only one mouth. Clearly it didn't see the internet coming or it never would have given us ten fingers to type with.

  rojoArcueid

Elite Member

Joined: 8/13/09
Posts: 5556

"It is double pleasure to deceive the deceiver". - Niccolo Machiavelli

7/18/13 4:19:15 PM#37

i dont have a problem with them playing games. But i have found that LGBT usually dont make dramas about those topics in game, religious players tend to keep talking about it and i get fed up so i dont join their guilds with religious drama. But they have every right that i have to play the game.

My endgame begins with character creation and ends with a new mmorpg

  tinuelle

Novice Member

Joined: 12/10/08
Posts: 290

It's all about pushing the right buttons

7/18/13 4:30:30 PM#38

People gather in guilds because of same interests.

 

If you should deny people community, then the game will fail.

 

I only say NAY to hardcore & grindmonger guilds, as they are a profanity to life itself!!! :)

  Tierless

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/01/08
Posts: 2114

joie de vivre

7/18/13 4:33:28 PM#39

The idea that we ignore the topics that end up having the most day to day impact on our lives is nonsensical and a mechanism designed by people either too insecure or too uneducated to discuss them in a civil, logical, manner.

mmorpg.com/blogs/Xobdnas

  erictlewis

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/08/08
Posts: 3058

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over while expecting different results.

7/18/13 4:38:25 PM#40
Originally posted by immodium

What I find unusual is why someone would play a game and think "I need to get my sexual orientation/religious/political views involved somehow"

I agree this is the kind of stuff that destroys gameplay, and destroys guilds. 

the way I see it don't ask don't tell.  If somebody has a friend and they want to keep that info to themselves then that is fine, but it has no place in out chat, or in guild chat, unless everybody in that guild is of a certain mindset.

These kind of discussions in our guild chat gets you benched from raid first, if it continues and folks complain your out.

 

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