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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Religious and LGBT Guilds, Yay or Nay?

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352 posts found
  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10427

I've become dependent upon spell check. My apologies for stupid grammatical errors.

 
OP  7/18/13 2:58:16 PM#1

This article on Massively: http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/07/18/ask-massively-taboo-topics/

talks about the subject of "themed" guilds, in particular, guilds with a religious focus or a LGBT focus. Really, the guild is focused on gaming, but you know what I mean.

It has never occurred to me to be offended or really even care about this type of thing. If people want a guild that's friendly towards a particular religion or orientation, as long as they aren't militant, exclusive based on that religion or orientation and as long as they have good taste in public chat, I don't feel like i need to spend a lot of time thinking about it. Until I read the article.

It seems awhile back that Blizzard was going to ban guilds based on a LBGT charter, but backlash from the world or the gaming community caused them to reverse the decision quickly. This honestly surprises me. Given the nature of WoW's chat channels, I'm kind of surprised they would even consider that stance.

So, what do you think? Do religious guilds ruin your immersion in a game? What about LBGT guilds? Are there even that many guilds that advertise themselves based on a given religion or orientation?

Also, I realize this is a topic that could go south quickly, but in the spirit of conversation, try to avoid talking about specific religions or people, and focus on guilds. If things do go pear shaped, my apologies.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  Esuarfeeee

Novice Member

Joined: 7/20/12
Posts: 78

7/18/13 3:03:42 PM#2

i really don't mind if i actually see one of those guilds. it just makes me wonder though why they should even include or like practice those king of things in a game, is it for role-playing perhaps? i dunno. 

as long as they don't do something crazy, im fine with them :)

  whisperwynd

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/22/06
Posts: 1339

Think for yourselves and let others enjoy the priviledge to do so as well.

7/18/13 3:07:06 PM#3
 They don't bother me at all. Like the article said, you have bad trolls also in game chatss just looking to start trouble. Ignore and move on.
  Alders

Elite Member

Joined: 1/28/10
Posts: 1653

I cannot fiddle but I can make a great state of a small city.

7/18/13 3:07:31 PM#4
Why are people's race, religious affiliation, and sexual orientation even issues anymore?
  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 4453

It's a combination of Nightingale Armor with the Mod Truebound Deadric Armors

7/18/13 3:07:35 PM#5
I really did find myself trying to word a well thought out response to this post. But in the end, I find myself coming to the conclusion that for this topic, the smartest response is the one not posted.

I feel that the state of the genre is such that a total and complete failure is needed so it can be reborn anew.
I'm actually hoping this new generation of 8 button MMOs will make that happen.

  Mythryl

Novice Member

Joined: 12/07/10
Posts: 18

7/18/13 3:11:43 PM#6
Originally posted by GeezerGamer
I really did find myself trying to word a well thought out response to this post. But in the end, I find myself coming to the conclusion that for this topic, the smartest response is the one not posted.

 

I agree completely!
  immodium

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/03/07
Posts: 1271

7/18/13 3:30:01 PM#7

What I find unusual is why someone would play a game and think "I need to get my sexual orientation/religious/political views involved somehow"

  Jean-Luc_Picard

Elite Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2665

There... are... four... lights!

7/18/13 3:33:31 PM#8
Originally posted by immodium

What I find unusual is why someone would play a game and think "I need to get my sexual orientation/religious/political views involved somehow"

This. /thread.

Games are not tools for religious, political or sexual propaganda, and anyone trying to use them as such should get a well deserved ban. I don't play game to have to endure the bullshit that is already plaguing "real world".

Playing now: Archeage, WoW, Landmark, GW2

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

  Dihoru

Elite Member

Joined: 1/11/06
Posts: 2683

7/18/13 3:33:50 PM#9
Me no care. What you do in church or in bed is your issue not mine as long as you keep me out of it.

  Four0Six

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/18/11
Posts: 1069

7/18/13 3:34:39 PM#10

I am fine with it.

As long as ALL of it is tolerated. If you get the LGBT, you get the Religious too, no picksies, no choosies.

 

I find it actually to be helpful. That way if you get into a guild, you don't find out later your personal obsessional hang up is a no go for the rest involved.

  AlBQuirky

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/24/05
Posts: 2950

Tomorrow's just a future yesterday...

7/18/13 3:37:42 PM#11

I really do not care what people do on their own or what they choose to believe in. It is when they feel the need to "advertise" their choices that can get under my skin. These are real world aspects that have no place in a fantasy world. I just want to say, "yay? good for you?"

That being said, I can see how that "identification" can make things easier yet at the same time harder. People looking for like minded people have an easier time finding them. On the other hand, the small minded players have easily identifiable targets for their desperate hate.

I can understand Blizzard's stance. It is not unlike MMORPG.com's stance on political and religious posting. It tends to fan the flames of board wars. It is sad that a "special interest group" dictated how a business was run. That is wrong.

Just as MMOs are created to sell to the lowest common denominator (LCD), they also have to take into account what they allow for that same LCD to interact with.

I guess I just do not understand what makes people want others to know about their sexual, political, or religious choices or preferences. It's a game. Leave that stuff at the log in screen.

Remember, Guilds decide who they let in or not. No one should be able to tell Guilds who gets to become members. In one sense it is not unlike PvE, PvP, or RP guild tags. But that is geared more towards game play, not real world likes/dislikes.

- Al

Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
- FARGIN_WAR

  stayBlind

Novice Member

Joined: 4/19/06
Posts: 509

7/18/13 3:38:23 PM#12
Would anyone have a problem with an exclusively NON-LBGT guild?

Little forum boys with their polished cyber toys: whine whine, boo-hoo, talk talk.

  Havekk

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/14/08
Posts: 1356

7/18/13 3:38:37 PM#13
Originally posted by Alders
Why are people's race, religious affiliation, and sexual orientation even issues anymore?

That's the age old question my friend. It's been this way since the beginning of the first civilizations. People just tend to dislike others who don't believe what they believe. And if they do believe what they believe.. they won't like them cause they don't look like they do.. or act like they do.. or do the same things they do.. It's a sad state of affairs... but far from new. 

 

On the original post... I don't mind those guild at all. I just steer clear of them. They don't bother me though.

  Xssiv

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/18/10
Posts: 314

7/18/13 3:40:35 PM#14
Originally posted by immodium

What I find unusual is why someone would play a game and think "I need to get my sexual orientation/religious/political views involved somehow"

I don't think they are trying to impose their views on people in game, they probably just want to hang with like-minded players.

 

 

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5575

7/18/13 3:40:50 PM#15

I think people want to game with like-minded individuals.  I like to game with my friends and can understand how others want familiarity and safety in their socialization.

Several games I play have both religious and LGBT oriented guilds.  Rift, Neverwinter, and LotRO come to mind incidentally.

This topic came up on the Rift forums.  It seems there is a decent portion of that game population belonging to the LGBT demographic.  In that thread the proponents of those guilds pointed out that people like to feel safe and comfortable discussing anything from their perspective.  A man might mention his boyfriend, partner, etc and would like to do so without having to deal contrary reactions.  They can, and do according to those posters, get that reaction in general chat.

Religious groups might like to promote a chat and interaction associated with their mores.  Someone might like to mention god or church in chat without having to engage in a contrary discussion.  They might want to have a swearing rule or keep chat what they consider "family appropriate" and not argue with guildies who are not like-minded.

These guilds allow for a unity where division and drama in a more generic guild might ensue.  I don't think there is anything wrong with that.  Guilds should be about support, unity, and cohesion.  I think these sorts of guilds do others a service as well since they aren't asking non-like minded people to adjust for them.  Like you said, as long as they respect the rights of others, they should have their freedom as well.

I think a mind wipe so people could play an mmo like it was their first time again, would be easier to build than a new mmo people here would actually like. - DamonVile

  User Deleted
7/18/13 3:41:11 PM#16

I don't understand why those things even matter really. I've heard a bunch of examples over the years as to why they do, but I still think players should just keep a lock on personal information. You're playing a game after all and there is no need to share such intimate facts about yourself. I can understand Blizzard's side in that story as a result.

  jakin

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/27/04
Posts: 235

7/18/13 3:41:18 PM#17
Originally posted by immodium

What I find unusual is why someone would play a game and think "I need to get my sexual orientation/religious/political views involved somehow"

I don't think it's so much seeking to get their views involved, but more of someone looking for an atmosphere where they can express their beliefs and / or be who they are without worrying about ridicule.

 

Alternatively, I know it's also the case that sometimes people are looking for a place where they know they won't have to deal with casual bigotry.  People in a LGBT guild simply don't use the term "gay" as casually as much of the gamer population.

 

MMOs are supposed to be social experiences.  I don't see why game companies wouldn't want to encourage social groups to form around shared interests.  Such bonds usually keep players in a given game far longer than they would without any social bonds.  As long as the game is proactive about harassment, and the groups themselves aren't especially militant about their views, I can only see it as a positive for the developers.

  jakin

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/27/04
Posts: 235

7/18/13 3:46:11 PM#18
Originally posted by stayBlind
Would anyone have a problem with an exclusively NON-LBGT guild?

I can guarantee you that such a guild is very easy to make.  It's almost a self-fulfilling prophecy.  In fact, it only takes one or two members of a certain mindset and it's a sure thing.

 

Of course, there's no warranty on what the rest of the server will think of such a guild - but thems the breaks.

  Four0Six

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/18/11
Posts: 1069

7/18/13 3:46:13 PM#19
Originally posted by AlBQuirky

I really do not care what people do on their own or what they choose to believe in. It is when they feel the need to "advertise" their choices that can get under my skin. These are real world aspects that have no place in a fantasy world. I just want to say, "yay? good for you?"

That being said, I can see how that "identification" can make things easier yet at the same time harder. People looking for like minded people have an easier time finding them. On the other hand, the small minded players have easily identifiable targets for their desperate hate.

I can understand Blizzard's stance. It is not unlike MMORPG.com's stance on political and religious posting. It tends to fan the flames of board wars. It is sad that a "special interest group" dictated how a business was run. That is wrong.

Just as MMOs are created to sell to the lowest common denominator (LCD), they also have to take into account what they allow for that same LCD to interact with.

I guess I just do not understand what makes people want others to know about their sexual, political, or religious choices or preferences. It's a game. Leave that stuff at the log in screen.

Remember, Guilds decide who they let in or not. No one should be able to tell Guilds who gets to become members. In one sense it is not unlike PvE, PvP, or RP guild tags. But that is geared more towards game play, not real world likes/dislikes.

I could agree, except when was the last time you say a guild that didn't "require", VOIP? I know of 1 in Rift at launch, Silent Epidemic, founder was deaf.......But other than that it is required. Making the argument about "immersion" a moot point.    Really all a LGBT guild wants is to not hear "fag" in VOIP. Just as the religious guild doesn't want to hear cussing. They both are trying  to avoid immature A-Holes that are going to stir up trouble in the guild. How about we stop being offended because some group we didn't want to be involved with in the first place doesn't want us? Besides, if you allow guilds to be so labeled, it frees up the Moderators to keep "hot-button" issues out of general.

  Foomerang

Elite Member

Joined: 11/10/05
Posts: 4764

A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still

7/18/13 3:46:33 PM#20


Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard

Originally posted by immodium What I find unusual is why someone would play a game and think "I need to get my sexual orientation/religious/political views involved somehow"
This. /thread.

Games are not tools for religious, political or sexual propaganda, and anyone trying to use them as such should get a well deserved ban. I don't play game to have to endure the bullshit that is already plaguing "real world".


Yet you are constantly involving your own views and don't even realize it. Of course when someone has a different view than your own it becomes a "plague" on your sense of reality. That is, unfortunately, how our society is hardwired in this day and age.

If you thought the events were dynamic, you'll think the stories are living.

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