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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » The virtual world feeling

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  SavageHorizon

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/14/13
Posts: 1567

7/17/13 4:34:12 PM#41
Originally posted by Sovrath

for me both Vanguard and Ryzom feel very "virtual world".

I love how in vanguard I can travel and not see anything and then suddenly have a point of interest in the distance.

In Ryzom you hear the wind, see groups of beasts roaming around, some coming up to you and just checking you out, very few qusets you just "find things to do".

When you are out in the wilderness you feel out in the wilderness.

 

I agree on both games plus i would throw WurmOnline into the mix and even Darkfall, EQ and Age Of Wulin.

But the winner is Atys(Ryzom) by a  long mile, the game has changing seasons and weather. Weather effects include rain, snow, and wind. Tied to the season and weather changes are the movements of animals and availability of harvestable materials.

Animal migration are also second to none.

For example, a certain type of sap may only be harvested during spring rains and be unattainable during other seasons or weather conditions. Weather conditions can change minute by minute. Each game season (spring, summer, fall, and winter) lasts four real time days.

Come on, what MMO can even come close to Ryzoms dynamic world.

 

 

 

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  Arclan

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Joined: 1/29/07
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7/17/13 4:50:50 PM#42

That sounds very cool. Maybe I'll check Ryzom out.

Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
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  Jemcrystal

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/02/08
Posts: 1346

Let em put a slave ring thru u're nose u're prob not going to like where they're taking you. Think.

7/17/13 8:13:56 PM#43
Originally posted by Foomerang

 


Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

Originally posted by BadSpock I think for a game to really have that virtual world feeling it really only needs two major systems in place: 1. Housing 2. Non-combat classes/professions   Another big one that is important to many is: 3. Territorial control PvP (be it faction, guild, RvR, etc.)   These very simple criteria put games like UO, SWG, and EvE in their proper place as true "virtual worlds" - though the housing aspect of EvE is a bit... odd? Non-standard compared to say UO/SWG.  
Actually to me the orriginal EQ felt very much like a virtual world and less like a game, and they didn´t have any of those

 

 

Problem for me is i have a very hard time for myself to indentify what exactly gives me that virtuall world feeling, i however realise that games like GW2 really feel like games and not like worlds .



Perhaps its the trend to have every aspect of a game itemized, tracked, displayed by a numerical value, and put into an achievement system. You cant escape the "game" so to speak. You cant explore over that hill without a message popping up on the screen saying "DISCOVERED THE OTHER SIDE OF THAT HILL! +10 exploration points. Cash in your exploration points for exciting rewards!"

 

things like that run rampant in games these days, so trying to make it feel more organic is difficult with so many artificially imposed reward systems.

Lolz.  And I was so proud that I found the other side of the hill too!  What pisses me off is if you are going to bother to ding-dong my redundant "achievements" you better give me something kick ass for that interruption into my immersion.  Like say a free lolly at 7-Eleven.  Then I'd be even more proud of my ding-dong.

 

To answer the OP's thread - nothing.  I role play in the games using a shiz load of my imagination to the point where it hurts.  But I have never been in a game that let me forget it was a game.  Rabbits should not fight back and drop coins and heavy armor.  Devs are money making retards.

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  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19811

7/17/13 8:34:38 PM#44
Originally posted by azzamasin

 

Sounds like your not a true fan of the MMO genre because MMO's and there persistent worlds are meant to be a virtual reality meant to be played for years at a time.  Your line of thinking is what I would expect from the console crowd and is primarily one of the reasons I feel MMO do not belong on the console.

"True" fan? I am not a true fan of any entertainment products. I use them for fun, not just because i have to be a "fan".

MMOs are not "meant" for anything. They are just entertainment products grouped by some common features. The definition and the grouping will change because of the market.

Whatever you believe is pretty much irrelevant to the market. If a big enough audience want a "console" MMO, it will happen. Heck, it is happening.

In fact, many console games (like DIshonor, or Bioshock, although i play them mostly on PC) are more fun to me than any MMOs.

  waynejr2

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/12/11
Posts: 3735

RIP City of Heroes!

7/17/13 10:24:01 PM#45
Originally posted by Foomerang

 


Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

Originally posted by BadSpock I think for a game to really have that virtual world feeling it really only needs two major systems in place: 1. Housing 2. Non-combat classes/professions   Another big one that is important to many is: 3. Territorial control PvP (be it faction, guild, RvR, etc.)   These very simple criteria put games like UO, SWG, and EvE in their proper place as true "virtual worlds" - though the housing aspect of EvE is a bit... odd? Non-standard compared to say UO/SWG.  
Actually to me the orriginal EQ felt very much like a virtual world and less like a game, and they didn´t have any of those

 

 

Problem for me is i have a very hard time for myself to indentify what exactly gives me that virtuall world feeling, i however realise that games like GW2 really feel like games and not like worlds .



Perhaps its the trend to have every aspect of a game itemized, tracked, displayed by a numerical value, and put into an achievement system. You cant escape the "game" so to speak. You cant explore over that hill without a message popping up on the screen saying "DISCOVERED THE OTHER SIDE OF THAT HILL! +10 exploration points. Cash in your exploration points for exciting rewards!"

 

things like that run rampant in games these days, so trying to make it feel more organic is difficult with so many artificially imposed reward systems.

I have wanted to bring this up before.   Does the game ruin the virtual world.  Mobs standing around, quests, magic items stats listed, your exploration bonus +10 and all the combat numbers.   They make you notice the game and therefore take away from the virtual world.  However, these are games so will removing those ruin the game?

Back in the day, we played a ton of dnd.  When you discovered a magic item, it didn't have stats or powers listed on it.  You had to cast an identify spell OR play around with it.  You could get a +1 sword, not have it identified then use it to full effect.  A wand of fireballs, not so much, unless the DM just let you use it.

When wow added sparkly effects to plants you could gather, it really detracted from the world experience for me.

I  would like to see a game hide all the numbers.  Let players experiment like the days of old.  They might find some fun in it.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19811

7/17/13 10:51:59 PM#46
Originally posted by waynejr2

I  would like to see a game hide all the numbers.  Let players experiment like the days of old.  They might find some fun in it.

If that is fun, they won't be downing an add-on for wow en mass and let the add-on do it for them. They would have been doing the experiments themselves.

It is pretty obvious that most want the results, not the fun of the research.

  Mardukk

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/05/11
Posts: 1396

7/17/13 10:54:33 PM#47

EQ and believe it or not Darkfall UW.  Vanguard has the best world but the rest of the game is so piss poor I can't count it.

 

Edit: Nari... why do you even come to this website?

  fl0w

Novice Member

Joined: 8/22/04
Posts: 21

7/17/13 11:17:15 PM#48

This is going to be my first post on MMORPG.com, even though I created the account back in 2004 :).

To me it's a combination of two. When the world is consistent (art, style, quests, [what have you], ... ) and where there's rules not paths. By that I mean, I like it when I get to decide how I want to play the game myself.

I had an epic time playing Neocron 1.0. I was a crafter. Standing in my dark alley and crafting my ass off, getting money and recognition. 

  Rydeson

Elite Member

Joined: 3/05/07
Posts: 3346

7/18/13 1:54:10 AM#49
     Virtual world is very subjective.. IMO any game mechanic that brings about  a physical or emotional response on my end meets that qualification..  The game world needs to mean something to that individual..  Normally I like the change in climate, sounds and mobs to start with.. 
  Lord.Bachus

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/14/07
Posts: 8599

I believe in life before death... So dont forget to enjoy it while you still can.

 
OP  7/18/13 4:01:13 AM#50
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by waynejr2

I  would like to see a game hide all the numbers.  Let players experiment like the days of old.  They might find some fun in it.

If that is fun, they won't be downing an add-on for wow en mass and let the add-on do it for them. They would have been doing the experiments themselves.

It is pretty obvious that most want the results, not the fun of the research.

Let me tell you this, when i first played EQ, i hated the deathpennalties and not being able to do anything solo, or how harsh the game was when you made a single mistake. 

 

Now many years later i have come to realise that exactly these things, the challenge, the excitement and the fear of dieing made the experience so good... Surviving an adventure was a reward by itselves.

 

the people that play current day mmo,s like a cleric works his spreadsheats are the same people comlaining that mmos are so boring these days, well obviously because they are playing with spreadsheats instead of having fun adventures in an immersive world.

 

now, i realise that people love min maxing, but if you give the a single character sheat and hundreds of abbilities to choose from, you replace the boring numbers with things much more challenging like planning strategies and having tactics based on abbilities and not on numbers.

Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  Murugan

Novice Member

Joined: 4/18/08
Posts: 1567

7/18/13 4:10:24 AM#51

Community to me makes it feel like a "virtual world" and not just a game.  You get to know others, you form relationships and that is sooooooooooo much more immersive to me than simply "oh I'm going to my house now, that I built, and I can chop down this tree".

 

I mean those things are nice, I like housing and crafting (or at least the existence of crafting jobs I don't always like to do them myself).  But what really draws me in (or doesn't) is feeling like I know most of my server.  Nothing beats that.

 

I also like to play with the UI turned off at times which if the game has a nice world/graphics/etc. is a completely new experience, but I can usually only manage this once I have been playing a title for a year or two and can pretty much "play by feel" or am just messing around.

 

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  SavageHorizon

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/14/13
Posts: 1567

7/18/13 4:13:28 AM#52
Originally posted by Rydeson
     Virtual world is very subjective.. IMO any game mechanic that brings about  a physical or emotional response on my end meets that qualification..  The game world needs to mean something to that individual..  Normally I like the change in climate, sounds and mobs to start with.. 

That's why Ryzom wins hands down.

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  Lord.Bachus

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/14/07
Posts: 8599

I believe in life before death... So dont forget to enjoy it while you still can.

 
OP  7/18/13 4:25:02 AM#53

Another question, what more or less typical themepark things would not disturb the virtual world feeling?

 

first of, a virtual world for me i realise by now that it is all about immersion for me

 

- quests  if done smart can be part of an immersive world, no more questionmark, but good directions ( but no marks on a minimap) and NPC stepping up to you or waving at you works great for immersion.  Works great as long as questchains and stories are not straight and linear. And choice really influences the world around you, if you do act A some people and clans will love you for that, others will dislike or even hate you for it. Allow those choices to add to your factions.

-instances in general dont help immersion unless done smart, instances do really allow for good story telling and depth in a world, and they can when done right add to a worlds immersiveness. Instances however are not a solution but only a tool for immesiveness. Because to much instancing kills immersion. Open world dungeons are way more fun then instanced dungeons espescially if they work dynamic and change based uppon the numbers of players walking around.

- dynamic events are in my opinion even more suited for a sandboxy world then for a themepark, if only the dynamics would react based on players actions.. For example zerging a certain camp to attain a scroll might end in defeat while a single thief sneaking in to steal it might be an easy task.  Anyway, the problem with current dynamic events is that they keep repeating in exactly the same order, having some randomness in them that makes them feel different each time and much less scripted would save the feature for an immersive open world, because to be immersive and feel real the world needs to live and be dynamic and react to the actions players take. And they should really consider making pvp part of this based on players choice

 

so what more themeparky features do you think would still hold their own in a virtual world?  Do strict PvE zones work for you? 

Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  AlBQuirky

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Joined: 1/24/05
Posts: 3204

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7/18/13 6:41:08 AM#54


Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
- dynamic events are in my opinion even more suited for a sandboxy world then for a themepark, if only the dynamics would react based on players actions.. For example zerging a certain camp to attain a scroll might end in defeat while a single thief sneaking in to steal it might be an easy task.  Anyway, the problem with current dynamic events is that they keep repeating in exactly the same order, having some randomness in them that makes them feel different each time and much less scripted would save the feature for an immersive open world, because to be immersive and feel real the world needs to live and be dynamic and react to the actions players take. And they should really consider making pvp part of this based on players choice

This got me to thinking. Having multiple ways to accomplish a task, mission, quest goes a long way to create a virtual world.

People should be able to pick open a locked chest or door, bash open a locked chest or door, pickpocket a key for the locked chest or door, or use technology/magic to open a locked chest or door.

For the "save my <insert NPC>" tasks, there should multiple ways to accomplish this, too. Call in friends and zerg the hell out of the enemy. Sneak in, free the NPC, and try to find a quicker way out. Use magic/technology to fool the opponents, destroy the opponents, or pop in and out with the saved NPC.

As it stands now, there is usually one way to accomplish a task in MMOs - fight.

- Al

Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
- FARGIN_WAR

  Benedikt

Tipster

Joined: 12/12/04
Posts: 1325

We live for The One, we die for The One.

7/18/13 7:38:10 AM#55
wurm online and haven & hearth - generally sandbox game where you can affect the world around you and do other things than combat
  Drelkag

Novice Member

Joined: 7/12/13
Posts: 57

7/18/13 8:28:29 AM#56

Mabinogi is the current game I'm playing with that feeling. 

Characters age every week and lose/gain weight depending on what they eat.

NPC's aren't just names that hand out quests but have personalities, stories, relationships, etc.

Tons of noncombat skills for gathering/crafting and housing.

Rebirthing after you die is explained in the game lore and feels like the best reason given compared to WoW or EQ for example.

 

Playing: Mabinogi

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19811

7/18/13 11:25:37 AM#57
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by waynejr2

I  would like to see a game hide all the numbers.  Let players experiment like the days of old.  They might find some fun in it.

If that is fun, they won't be downing an add-on for wow en mass and let the add-on do it for them. They would have been doing the experiments themselves.

It is pretty obvious that most want the results, not the fun of the research.

Let me tell you this, when i first played EQ, i hated the deathpennalties and not being able to do anything solo, or how harsh the game was when you made a single mistake. 

 

Now many years later i have come to realise that exactly these things, the challenge, the excitement and the fear of dieing made the experience so good... Surviving an adventure was a reward by itselves.

 

the people that play current day mmo,s like a cleric works his spreadsheats are the same people comlaining that mmos are so boring these days, well obviously because they are playing with spreadsheats instead of having fun adventures in an immersive world.

 

now, i realise that people love min maxing, but if you give the a single character sheat and hundreds of abbilities to choose from, you replace the boring numbers with things much more challenging like planning strategies and having tactics based on abbilities and not on numbers.

Let me tell you this, when i first played EQ, i hated the deathpennalties and not being able to do anything solo, or how harsh the game was when you made a single mistake.

Now years later, i still hate it and glad that there are MMOs that fix all that. Games are actually fun. Combat is actually deep and challenges comes from mechanics, not an artificial penalties that waste my time.

Who is complaining? Watch youtube videos are gearing, min-maxing, skill builds. People are having fun doing that.

And yes, i think abilities are better than numbers (like those in D3) *but* optimizing different abilities with numbers is fun. That is why people spends lots of time on gearing. Sure you may not like it but don't tell me that millions of players who use RAWR do not.

  Krematory

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/15/08
Posts: 520

MMOHOLIC

7/18/13 11:44:36 AM#58
For me, the only game giving me that feeling right now is EVE Online. A universe driven by players with almost infinite possibilities and the deepest metagaming you can imagine.

"EVE is likely the best MMORPG that you've never really understood or played" - Kyleran

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19811

7/18/13 12:11:09 PM#59
Originally posted by AlBQuirky


This got me to thinking. Having multiple ways to accomplish a task, mission, quest goes a long way to create a virtual world.

I do like to have multiple ways to finish a task. That is why i play action stealth games like Dishonor, and Deus Ex. (Deus Ex is great .. you can fight, sneak around and does take-down, sneak around and not fight, and hack and use robots).

However, you do NOT need a MMO or a virtual world to do this right. In fact, i think this many-way-to-play idea is better suited for a SP game with tight level design (like Deus Ex), than an open world game. It is much easier to ensure each solution option is valid and fun.

  Tierless

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/01/08
Posts: 2114

joie de vivre

7/18/13 1:35:24 PM#60

SWG did, Darkfall does, EVE too but the way it zones kinda makes it feel a bit less worldly to me, that might be it for me sadly...

mmorpg.com/blogs/Xobdnas

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