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Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn

Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn 

General Discussion  » I think the pricing model will cause this game to fail. If F2P, it would do well.

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62 posts found
  danwest58

Elite Member

Joined: 5/14/09
Posts: 591

7/17/13 1:47:20 PM#41
Originally posted by laserit

I would  be in favor of "FTP with subscription server's" and "subscription only server's"

Personally I much prefer subscriptions for the game's I play. I don't like the nickel and diming of FTP and when I read about people blowing $700 or more in a month of FTP-ing  I just gotta shake my head and sigh.

But these are the same people that tell you the game is FREE TO PLAY!.  What is funny I spent about $1300 is subscriptions for 10 years of WoW.  Compared to 1 month of people spending $700 in FREE 2 Play games.  Who got the better end of the deal?????

  Xatsh

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/13/10
Posts: 74

7/17/13 1:47:43 PM#42

F2P will do nothing to allow people to enjoy the game more. F2P simply does not make a game worth playing, if a game is not worth paying $0.32/hr (which is only like 10hr a week, which is on the low side of average playtime) the game is probably a steaming pile of crap to being with.

 

Example:

If you quit rift during p2p did going f2p make the game more enjoyable? No

Did ToR going f2p fix all the bugs and reason why people quit? No, ToR should of never been a mmo, it is actualy a good game story wise if you do not consider it a mmo. Should of just been like Diablo and had a multiplayer mode.

Did Aion going f2p make it the WoW killer everyone said it would? No ... hell did it fix the population problem? No

Did EQ2 going f2p make it as popular as EQ1? No

 

F2P is a model that uses a term which is more or less a lie, "Free to Play", to get people to pay more per month to enjoy the game. People are just gullable enough to buy into the marketing ploy. To play a F2P game like a P2P game the average player will spend 5-10xs more. Only the free loaders or people using it as a filler mmo will benefit from f2p, people the companys should not even care about.

 

SE is taking the correct stance with the game. Either it is good enough for a sub or they shut it down. Honestly all mmos should follow this model. Not attempt to try to rip off your customers with unfair advantages or game elements in a cash shop.

 

I honestly do not see f2p being a movement. I just see tons of mmos that lack a reason to sub. (The WoW model is proven to be a failure in all mmos outside WoW). WE keep getting themeparks with massive lack of content, bugs, limited content, low group content, no solo content, and/or subpar story.  The mmo simply has to be worth a sub. If you can get the same thing in a non-sub game then the sub is not justified. Why is every mmo going f2p... because almost every mmo since WoW has epically failed in one or more of the key areas.

 

Honestly XIV:ARR is highly questionable... they are following the WoW model. If people are forced to wait for content at endgame... XIV will follow the other clones to F2P land. If XIV's endgame is like XI's where you have nearly unlimited content then it will easily stay p2p. Game pre endgame already has 2-3xs the content of almost everyother mmo that was released.

 

The majority of beta testers are very pro-p2p atm. I would say nearly 20:1 in favor of p2p based off the forum post over there. There is a large amount of people willing to support the game with a sub. It just has to be good.

  User Deleted
 
OP  7/17/13 1:48:08 PM#43
Originally posted by Kayo45
lol, nope ... not going f2p. Didnt happen for FFXI even now with minimal subs, its not happening here where the game actually grew on a sub, back when it was crappier, with no console support.

Get over it. Get better grades and maybe mommy will consider a steady $13 a month instead of $5 now and then for cash shop items.

P.S.: Sorry you lost your WoW account. There is always next semester.

Will see you in FFXIV in two months, the F2P version.   The first version of the game was not a sucess even if subs grew.  I think SE is putting in a lot of resources to make this game profitable. I hope I a wrong and they do well, but looking at other mmos in the past, most of them went F2P and became profitable.   I would suspect SE to do,the same.  Sorry you think everyone on this forum is poor and still in school.  Bad to just make assumptions like that.  

  Krimzin

Elite Member

Joined: 7/03/04
Posts: 513

7/17/13 1:48:36 PM#44

F2P invites all the worst players.
Players who don't want to actually play the game, just to grief players.

F2P models are also more expensive for long term player base than a subscription based game.

Just because I'm a gamer doesn't mean I drive a Honda.


It's an Orange thing

  User Deleted
 
OP  7/17/13 1:50:48 PM#45
Originally posted by Krimzin

F2P invites all the worst players.
Players who don't want to actually play the game, just to grief players.

F2P models are also more expensive for long term player base than a subscription based game.

Like the community in WoW is any better?

  Doogiehowser

Novice Member

Joined: 3/14/12
Posts: 1939

7/17/13 1:51:31 PM#46
Originally posted by danwest58
Originally posted by Doogiehowser
Originally posted by danwest58
Originally posted by Doogiehowser
Originally posted by danwest58

 

Why do you even care.  Said how many times its going P2P. However a person like you will continue to BITCH about it not being F2P for you.  Period He can say it 1000 times and you still will BITCH about it not being the way you want it.  Do us all a favor hit the road.

 

http://www.gamebreaker.tv/mmorpg/yoshi-p-defends-ffxiv-subscription/

 

I have not even once said that i want the game to go F2P. However i have said that in todays market a game has to be really exceptional to survive on P2P model. Two very different things. But if you were here to read and discuss instead of hurling insults you would already know that.

Also i read the link but no where Yoshi said he would rather shut the game down instead of going F2P. Stop making your own stuff up.

You are short some brain cells if you think F2P is good in today's Market.  Its only working because the MMO Market is flooding with CRAP MMOS.  Not because F2P is so much better.  Every Game in the last 7 years have been CRAP.  You get to end game in 1 weeks and complete it in another week.  Why Sub to a game that has 2 weeks worth of content. That is why they go F2P because they have no rights being a game in the MMO market.  

Again trying to put words in my mouth. And what is with the insults? do you see me insulting you in any way? so give me the same courtsey will you and talk like a grown up?

It is not the question what i think is better but what majority thinks. I go with the flow. I never stopped playing MMOS when F2P didn't exist in western market, i am still playing when F2P is popular and i will still play when games will go back to just being P2P (not that it is going to happen anytime soon).

But when you see so many MMOS failing left and right it is just natural to question and ponder if FFXIV is going to make it.

As far all MMOS being crap in last 7 years that is your opinion and i disagree. There has been many good MMOS for example TSW, Fallen Earth etc. Even good MMOS go F2P. If being a good game and P2P is mutually exclusive...then WOW is the best MMO ever made.

O really they are better as a F2P game then P2P because they are good quality games?  If it was a good quality game people are willing to pay for a subscription, UO, EQ1/2, FFXI, DAOC, AC, and WOW all proved that point.  If they are not worth it people will not pay a subscription but they will gladly play for Free, or they will spend a 1 time cost to have it for life. So no its not opinion its fact because people have already paid for quality games more than played poor games for Free.

Quality doesn't always reflect in good game play. Again you are mixing up two different things. SWTOR spent millions probably the most expensive game to this date and yet it didn't help it. In the end it is the over all gameplay that counts. TSW had maybe fraction of SWTOR budget and it has more quality than SWTOR ever did and yet it had to go F2P. 

All the MMOS that you mentioned are from 10 years ago when P2P was the only option and there wasn't cut throat competiton among MMOS. WOW made MMOS mainstream and with influx of so many players it started to get harder and harder for MMOS to sustain subs long terms due to so many choices available to players. 

When i was playing EQ back then i didn't have many choices. So nope it is your opinion and not a fact. Being a good MMO got nothing to do with P2P model. 

"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell

"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney

  Bladestrom

Elite Member

Joined: 4/04/11
Posts: 3407

7/17/13 1:58:06 PM#47
Nothing wrong with subs if it represents value for money, I would gladly pay up to say 120 a year plus box or cash shop based to same amount, if game was cutting edge and felt huge and fresh. For an average mmorg with good quality but dated I would pay maybe half this.

rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW (1000 hrs on main mage)> oblivion > LOTR (480 Hunter) > Rift (230 hours mage) > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(900 elementalist), Wildstar

Now playing GW2, AOW 3

  danwest58

Elite Member

Joined: 5/14/09
Posts: 591

7/17/13 2:00:20 PM#48
Originally posted by Doogiehowser
Originally posted by danwest58
Originally posted by Doogiehowser
Originally posted by danwest58
Originally posted by Doogiehowser
Originally posted by danwest58

 

Why do you even care.  Said how many times its going P2P. However a person like you will continue to BITCH about it not being F2P for you.  Period He can say it 1000 times and you still will BITCH about it not being the way you want it.  Do us all a favor hit the road.

 

http://www.gamebreaker.tv/mmorpg/yoshi-p-defends-ffxiv-subscription/

 

I have not even once said that i want the game to go F2P. However i have said that in todays market a game has to be really exceptional to survive on P2P model. Two very different things. But if you were here to read and discuss instead of hurling insults you would already know that.

Also i read the link but no where Yoshi said he would rather shut the game down instead of going F2P. Stop making your own stuff up.

You are short some brain cells if you think F2P is good in today's Market.  Its only working because the MMO Market is flooding with CRAP MMOS.  Not because F2P is so much better.  Every Game in the last 7 years have been CRAP.  You get to end game in 1 weeks and complete it in another week.  Why Sub to a game that has 2 weeks worth of content. That is why they go F2P because they have no rights being a game in the MMO market.  

Again trying to put words in my mouth. And what is with the insults? do you see me insulting you in any way? so give me the same courtsey will you and talk like a grown up?

It is not the question what i think is better but what majority thinks. I go with the flow. I never stopped playing MMOS when F2P didn't exist in western market, i am still playing when F2P is popular and i will still play when games will go back to just being P2P (not that it is going to happen anytime soon).

But when you see so many MMOS failing left and right it is just natural to question and ponder if FFXIV is going to make it.

As far all MMOS being crap in last 7 years that is your opinion and i disagree. There has been many good MMOS for example TSW, Fallen Earth etc. Even good MMOS go F2P. If being a good game and P2P is mutually exclusive...then WOW is the best MMO ever made.

O really they are better as a F2P game then P2P because they are good quality games?  If it was a good quality game people are willing to pay for a subscription, UO, EQ1/2, FFXI, DAOC, AC, and WOW all proved that point.  If they are not worth it people will not pay a subscription but they will gladly play for Free, or they will spend a 1 time cost to have it for life. So no its not opinion its fact because people have already paid for quality games more than played poor games for Free.

Quality doesn't always reflect in good game play. Again you are mixing up two different things. SWTOR spent millions probably the most expensive game to this date and yet it didn't help it. In the end it is the over all gameplay that counts. TSW had maybe fraction of SWTOR budget and it has more quality than SWTOR ever did and yet it had to go F2P. 

All the MMOS that you mentioned are from 10 years ago when P2P was the only option and there wasn't cut throat competiton among MMOS. WOW made MMOS mainstream and with influx of so many players it started to get harder and harder for MMOS to sustain subs long terms due to so many choices available to players. 

When i was playing EQ back then i didn't have many choices. So nope it is your opinion and not a fact. Being a good MMO got nothing to do with P2P model. 

Thats because all the games since WoW have not been worth the money that was invested.  Thats why they are Free 2 Play period.  FYI yes F2P was around 10 years ago.  In the ways of Runescape and GW1.  However they were small niche games.  Yes WoW mainstreamed the MMO market a little bit however the games after WoW did not improve upon what wow did only copied and pasted it into their own world.  Thats why they were not worth subscriptions.  Also Every company is spending near hundred million to be the next WoW.  Problem is spending money will not mean you make a successful MMO.  SWTOR comes to mind.  Good game however not worth spending a subscription for more than 1 or 2 months at a time every 5 to 7 months.  

FFXIV has improved on some of the WOW success plus they did not spend $100 Million to remake FFXIV.  I bet they spent around half of that.  They are also not Aiming to be the next WoW.  They are Aiming to be FFXI 2.0 where they have about 500K subs which will sustain their game.   LOTRO, RIFT, SWTOR TSW and the list goes on which having investors spending near if not over 100 Million and expecting to be WoW 2.0.   Not the Standard Subscription based MMO which FFXIV is trying to be. 

  Nanfoodle

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3491

7/17/13 2:05:58 PM#49
I have to admit I love this topic at its core. MMO market and the changes we have seen over the past couple of years and if this is a trend or something thats going to stick, will other MMOs like FF14 be forced to switch but the negative start to this thread saying FF14 will fail because its not F2P is a little on the rude side. It suggests things that no one knows. IMO it comes close to trolling for an emotional response over trying to have a discussion on the topic. 
  Doogiehowser

Novice Member

Joined: 3/14/12
Posts: 1939

7/17/13 2:07:51 PM#50
Originally posted by danwest58

 

Thats because all the games since WoW have not been worth the money that was invested.  Thats why they are Free 2 Play period.  FYI yes F2P was around 10 years ago.  In the ways of Runescape and GW1.  However they were small niche games.  Yes WoW mainstreamed the MMO market a little bit however the games after WoW did not improve upon what wow did only copied and pasted it into their own world.  Thats why they were not worth subscriptions.  Also Every company is spending near hundred million to be the next WoW.  Problem is spending money will not mean you make a successful MMO.  SWTOR comes to mind.  Good game however not worth spending a subscription for more than 1 or 2 months at a time every 5 to 7 months.  

FFXIV has improved on some of the WOW success plus they did not spend $100 Million to remake FFXIV.  I bet they spent around half of that.  They are also not Aiming to be the next WoW.  They are Aiming to be FFXI 2.0 where they have about 500K subs which will sustain their game.   LOTRO, RIFT, SWTOR TSW and the list goes on which having investors spending near if not over 100 Million and expecting to be WoW 2.0.   Not the Standard Subscription based MMO which FFXIV is trying to be. 

So you are telling me WOW was the only last good themepark MMO ever made and since then FFXIV is the only MMO worth the sub fee? Well that is a very tall claim to make and i commend your confidence in SE and FFXIV. Not that many are going to agree with you though.

GW1 wasn't F2P it was B2P. And as far as Runescape is concerned we are talking about AAA MMOS here, if i start including every F2P MMO out there then yes there were many F2P MMOS of shoddy quality available.

As far as budget is concerned. MMOS that spent 100 million are F2P now and the MMOS that spent even half of it also went F2P. That should tell you something.

Also i find it ironic that you give the reason for MMOS going F2P in last 4 or 5 years is because they tried to copy WOW..well what do you think FFXIV ARR is doing? 

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  User Deleted
 
OP  7/17/13 2:13:02 PM#51
Originally posted by danwest58
Originally posted by Doogiehowser
Originally posted by danwest58
Originally posted by Doogiehowser
Originally posted by danwest58
Originally posted by Doogiehowser
Originally posted by danwest58

 

Why do you even care.  Said how many times its going P2P. However a person like you will continue to BITCH about it not being F2P for you.  Period He can say it 1000 times and you still will BITCH about it not being the way you want it.  Do us all a favor hit the road.

 

http://www.gamebreaker.tv/mmorpg/yoshi-p-defends-ffxiv-subscription/

 

I have not even once said that i want the game to go F2P. However i have said that in todays market a game has to be really exceptional to survive on P2P model. Two very different things. But if you were here to read and discuss instead of hurling insults you would already know that.

Also i read the link but no where Yoshi said he would rather shut the game down instead of going F2P. Stop making your own stuff up.

You are short some brain cells if you think F2P is good in today's Market.  Its only working because the MMO Market is flooding with CRAP MMOS.  Not because F2P is so much better.  Every Game in the last 7 years have been CRAP.  You get to end game in 1 weeks and complete it in another week.  Why Sub to a game that has 2 weeks worth of content. That is why they go F2P because they have no rights being a game in the MMO market.  

Again trying to put words in my mouth. And what is with the insults? do you see me insulting you in any way? so give me the same courtsey will you and talk like a grown up?

It is not the question what i think is better but what majority thinks. I go with the flow. I never stopped playing MMOS when F2P didn't exist in western market, i am still playing when F2P is popular and i will still play when games will go back to just being P2P (not that it is going to happen anytime soon).

But when you see so many MMOS failing left and right it is just natural to question and ponder if FFXIV is going to make it.

As far all MMOS being crap in last 7 years that is your opinion and i disagree. There has been many good MMOS for example TSW, Fallen Earth etc. Even good MMOS go F2P. If being a good game and P2P is mutually exclusive...then WOW is the best MMO ever made.

O really they are better as a F2P game then P2P because they are good quality games?  If it was a good quality game people are willing to pay for a subscription, UO, EQ1/2, FFXI, DAOC, AC, and WOW all proved that point.  If they are not worth it people will not pay a subscription but they will gladly play for Free, or they will spend a 1 time cost to have it for life. So no its not opinion its fact because people have already paid for quality games more than played poor games for Free.

Quality doesn't always reflect in good game play. Again you are mixing up two different things. SWTOR spent millions probably the most expensive game to this date and yet it didn't help it. In the end it is the over all gameplay that counts. TSW had maybe fraction of SWTOR budget and it has more quality than SWTOR ever did and yet it had to go F2P. 

All the MMOS that you mentioned are from 10 years ago when P2P was the only option and there wasn't cut throat competiton among MMOS. WOW made MMOS mainstream and with influx of so many players it started to get harder and harder for MMOS to sustain subs long terms due to so many choices available to players. 

When i was playing EQ back then i didn't have many choices. So nope it is your opinion and not a fact. Being a good MMO got nothing to do with P2P model. 

Thats because all the games since WoW have not been worth the money that was invested.  Thats why they are Free 2 Play period.  FYI yes F2P was around 10 years ago.  In the ways of Runescape and GW1.  However they were small niche games.  Yes WoW mainstreamed the MMO market a little bit however the games after WoW did not improve upon what wow did only copied and pasted it into their own world.  Thats why they were not worth subscriptions.  Also Every company is spending near hundred million to be the next WoW.  Problem is spending money will not mean you make a successful MMO.  SWTOR comes to mind.  Good game however not worth spending a subscription for more than 1 or 2 months at a time every 5 to 7 months.  

FFXIV has improved on some of the WOW success plus they did not spend $100 Million to remake FFXIV.  I bet they spent around half of that.  They are also not Aiming to be the next WoW.  They are Aiming to be FFXI 2.0 where they have about 500K subs which will sustain their game.   LOTRO, RIFT, SWTOR TSW and the list goes on which having investors spending near if not over 100 Million and expecting to be WoW 2.0.   Not the Standard Subscription based MMO which FFXIV is trying to be. 

For something that does not want to be the next WoW, the game sure does play just like WoW and not like any Final Fantasy console game.  It is just like playing WoW with a Final Fantasy setting.  Yeah, there are some things different like the job system, but the core game is very similar.  It has plenty of those kill 10 rats quests common in most mmos.  With that being said, what makes you think the game will survive in a sub only model and will not eventually go F2P like other WoW clones in the past?

  User Deleted
7/17/13 2:14:54 PM#52
OP, I disagree 100%.  Honestly, I think that the F2P style of MMOs is a trend that will die off over time.
  Ilaya

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/03/04
Posts: 360

7/17/13 2:16:36 PM#53
I so love that SE and Naoki Yoshida sticks to the "per month" modell. And i rly hope that all the "oh-its-free-now-its-good-lets-play-it-for-a-month-after-that-im-gone" freebie fuckers stay outside. ANd when it comes to the game itself, the quality is there, the content as well. Let's see how long the locusts need this time. But as it seems "en vouge" to cry already before a game goes live.....we will see.
  Asm0deus

Elite Member

Joined: 9/06/10
Posts: 864

7/17/13 2:17:52 PM#54
Originally posted by gxgunny
 

For something that does not want to be the next WoW, the game sure does play just like WoW and not like any Final Fantasy console game.  It is just like playing WoW with a Final Fantasy setting.  Yeah, there are some things different like the job system, but the core game is very similar.  It has plenty of those kill 10 rats quests common in most mmos.  With that being said, what makes you think the game will survive in a sub only model and will not eventually go F2P like other WoW clones in the past?

Lol wat?  Have you played any FF games? Being 39 and having played video games since well a long long time lol I must say FFXIVARR feel very much like a traditonal FF game minus being turn based and that inlcudes the go kill ten rats and all.

 

I think the only FF game that I have played that didn't really feel like FF was FFXIII. If anyone is a clone it WoW being  clone to numerous other games it ripped off.

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  Attend4455

Novice Member

Joined: 2/03/13
Posts: 166

7/17/13 2:17:59 PM#55
Originally posted by Foomerang

I know this sounds crazy, but not all mmo developers need 10 million people playing. FFXI never went f2p, has been going for 11+ years now, and has a small but loyal playerbase that keeps the game running.

Pretty much this. I can't see why they would make it F2P aka cash shop unless it's another SW:TOR

 

Also, the less mmo-tourists the better, but that is just my opinion :)

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  Blackaftermath

Novice Member

Joined: 7/12/13
Posts: 33

7/17/13 2:18:10 PM#56
I completely agree. i would be less interested if it were F2P
  Asm0deus

Elite Member

Joined: 9/06/10
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7/17/13 2:21:22 PM#57
Originally posted by BrooksTech
OP, I disagree 100%.  Honestly, I think that the F2P style of MMOs is a trend that will die off over time.

I agree I think unless there is some drastic changes in f2p quality this trend will kill itself like a parasite that kills off it's host.

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  User Deleted
 
OP  7/17/13 2:23:18 PM#58
Originally posted by BrooksTech
OP, I disagree 100%.  Honestly, I think that the F2P style of MMOs is a trend that will die off over time.

Funny you say that because it is the opposite of what is happening.  Most of these games started as Sub games and did not survive, but now they are F2P and almost doubling profits and some of them are even keeping the subs they had. Also, most of the new mmos have this model with a few exceptions  These companies are in this to make money and they will all eventually realize the F2P model is more profitable.  Sony has already learned this.  It is just a matter of time before other companies do the same.  I actually enjoy the hybrid model.  I want to try the game for a month or so and see if It is good enough to warrant a sub.   

  Amana

MMORPG.COM Staff

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7/17/13 2:28:17 PM#59
There are a;ready open threads on the payment system.

To give feedback on moderation, contact community@mmorpg.com

  User Deleted
 
OP  7/17/13 2:30:37 PM#60
Originally posted by Amana
There are a;ready open threads on the payment system.

There are?  Must be a hot topic.  I guess I am the only person that does not want to see this game fail.

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