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  Lord.Bachus

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/14/07
Posts: 8602

I believe in life before death... So dont forget to enjoy it while you still can.

 
OP  7/17/13 11:45:14 AM#1
What MMo feels most like a virtual world and least like a game, and why do you think so?

Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  User Deleted
7/17/13 11:51:51 AM#2

swg because there was so much more to do than combat. mmos are in a bad habit right now of putting the overwhelming majority if its resources into the combat system and combat centric systems. Other systems feel like an afterthought or fluff. This leaves the mmo feeling more "gamey" than "virtual worldy"

  bcbully

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7260

7/17/13 11:57:02 AM#3

Wushu.

 

Everything you do effects the NPCs around you, for good or for bad.

 

The terran doesn't change but the landscape does through guild territory control.

 

Players become NPCs when offline and do 100's of different jobs around the cities and country side.

 

17 or 18 professions ranging from, fisher man, to musician, to calligrapher. You might run up a hill and see a person transcribing poems or playing music 

 

Everything is playable from roof tops to bottoms of lakes, this creates so many nooks and crannies. 98% of the time if you see it, you can go there.

 

Grass moving, trees blowing, leaves falling, bird flying, and come augast 8th day/night/weather cycles and seasons that effect crops, gathering and skills.

When I eat chocolate chip pie it just doesn't feel like chocolate chip cookies. The texture, the consistency, it's just not the same and this is disappointing.

  Terranah

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/03/04
Posts: 3617

7/17/13 11:57:41 AM#4

When I typically think of a virtual world, I think of ambient noises, weather changes, elements of landscape movement like swaying trees or flowers and grass.  Also, long view distances with the ability to explore unhindered by loading screens and free or mostly free of instancing.

 

But the game that most had me immersed was Precu SWG for it's gameplay elements and features.  The ability to level something up by doing it, mix and match interests to create hybrid classes, interdependency and crafting depth, as well as the freedom to build, design and grow player cities really made it feel like a world to me.

 

I guess that goes to the heart of what the word 'virtual' means and it's really a subjective thing.  Precu SWG felt like a very immersive or virtual world because it had the ability to suspend my sense of reality and invest and immerse myself in character. 

  User Deleted
7/17/13 12:02:16 PM#5
EVE-Online and now looking forward to MO when I get the time (the crafting and the first person view where you look down and see your own legs sold me... that and the vistas) to see if I get the VW vibe.
  Lord.Bachus

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/14/07
Posts: 8602

I believe in life before death... So dont forget to enjoy it while you still can.

 
OP  7/17/13 12:02:44 PM#6
Sad thing, but the mentioned SWG pre CU does no longer excist.

Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  BadSpock

Elite Member

Joined: 8/21/04
Posts: 7742

Logic be damned!

7/17/13 12:04:47 PM#7

I think for a game to really have that virtual world feeling it really only needs two major systems in place:

1. Housing

2. Non-combat classes/professions

 

Another big one that is important to many is:

3. Territorial control PvP (be it faction, guild, RvR, etc.)

 

These very simple criteria put games like UO, SWG, and EvE in their proper place as true "virtual worlds" - though the housing aspect of EvE is a bit... odd? Non-standard compared to say UO/SWG.

 

Now Playing: Destiny

  Jean-Luc_Picard

Elite Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2794

There... are... four... lights!

7/17/13 12:25:34 PM#8
No game has been better than UO so far.

Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2

Got a refund: Archeage.

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

  stevebombsquad

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 609

7/17/13 12:31:44 PM#9
SWG and UO for sure. 

James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?

  Torik

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/02/09
Posts: 2326

7/17/13 12:36:36 PM#10
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
Sad thing, but the mentioned SWG pre CU does no longer excist.

For me the virtual world SWG stopped existing even before CU.  I was greatly immersed in the game at first but after months of playing the 'world feeling' was eroded by the deficiencies of the game and it stopped feeling like a world to me.

  Lord.Bachus

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/14/07
Posts: 8602

I believe in life before death... So dont forget to enjoy it while you still can.

 
OP  7/17/13 12:38:36 PM#11
Originally posted by BadSpock

I think for a game to really have that virtual world feeling it really only needs two major systems in place:

1. Housing

2. Non-combat classes/professions

 

Another big one that is important to many is:

3. Territorial control PvP (be it faction, guild, RvR, etc.)

 

These very simple criteria put games like UO, SWG, and EvE in their proper place as true "virtual worlds" - though the housing aspect of EvE is a bit... odd? Non-standard compared to say UO/SWG.

 

Actually to me the orriginal EQ felt very much like a virtual world and less like a game, and they didn´t have any of those

 

Problem for me is i have a very hard time for myself to indentify what exactly gives me that virtuall world feeling, i however realise that games like GW2 really feel like games and not like worlds .

Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  Torcip

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/14/06
Posts: 629

7/17/13 12:43:14 PM#12

EVE online is the most fleshed out virtual "world" of any MMO. If any game emulated being an actual person in a living breathing universe, it's that game.

I think the biggest factor of creating a virtual world is to create a world, and not a zone.  In zones every single piece of the background and environment is meant to accomplish something.  Worlds where places exist simply for existing is what makes the difference in playing a game and being in a virtual world. That and having more things to do than just fighting things.

  SpottyGekko

Elite Member

Joined: 9/26/04
Posts: 2945

7/17/13 12:47:36 PM#13

Pre-NGE SWG was the most recent "complete" virtual world MMO. It became a lot less of a virtual world after the themepark-ification of the NGE though.

 

EVE-Online is my second favourite virtual world. I would vote it number 1, but not while I'm only a spaceship in the game, lol.

 

MO had lots of promise as a virtual world candidate, but the development progress has been glacially slow, and frankly I've come to the conclusion that the tiny dev team simply doesn't have the skill and/or resources to deliver what they intended to.

 

As a lifelong "virtual world fan", I guess EQNext is my best hope, and that's a very faint hope indeed...

  User Deleted
7/17/13 12:48:28 PM#14


Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

Originally posted by BadSpock I think for a game to really have that virtual world feeling it really only needs two major systems in place: 1. Housing 2. Non-combat classes/professions   Another big one that is important to many is: 3. Territorial control PvP (be it faction, guild, RvR, etc.)   These very simple criteria put games like UO, SWG, and EvE in their proper place as true "virtual worlds" - though the housing aspect of EvE is a bit... odd? Non-standard compared to say UO/SWG.  
Actually to me the orriginal EQ felt very much like a virtual world and less like a game, and they didn´t have any of those

 

Problem for me is i have a very hard time for myself to indentify what exactly gives me that virtuall world feeling, i however realise that games like GW2 really feel like games and not like worlds .



Perhaps its the trend to have every aspect of a game itemized, tracked, displayed by a numerical value, and put into an achievement system. You cant escape the "game" so to speak. You cant explore over that hill without a message popping up on the screen saying "DISCOVERED THE OTHER SIDE OF THAT HILL! +10 exploration points. Cash in your exploration points for exciting rewards!"

things like that run rampant in games these days, so trying to make it feel more organic is difficult with so many artificially imposed reward systems.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19928

7/17/13 12:50:42 PM#15
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

 

Actually to me the orriginal EQ felt very much like a virtual world and less like a game, and they didn´t have any of those

 

Nah .. the original EQ felt like a boring GAME to me.

Camping all day .. don't tell me sitting in a room with 50 other groups taking a number waiting so that you can kill the boss in 20 second with zero challenge is very virtual world like for you.

If so .. i am glad MMOs are more games like than virtual world like today.

  whisperwynd

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/22/06
Posts: 1421

Think for yourselves and let others enjoy the priviledge to do so as well.

7/17/13 12:51:32 PM#16
 I have to agree with EvE online. The vastness of its 'world' ie. universe and the choices in how to play can really strengthen tht sense of  immersion...IF you enjoy this type of game.
  Lord.Bachus

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/14/07
Posts: 8602

I believe in life before death... So dont forget to enjoy it while you still can.

 
OP  7/17/13 12:53:30 PM#17
Originally posted by Foomerang

 


Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

Originally posted by BadSpock I think for a game to really have that virtual world feeling it really only needs two major systems in place: 1. Housing 2. Non-combat classes/professions   Another big one that is important to many is: 3. Territorial control PvP (be it faction, guild, RvR, etc.)   These very simple criteria put games like UO, SWG, and EvE in their proper place as true "virtual worlds" - though the housing aspect of EvE is a bit... odd? Non-standard compared to say UO/SWG.  
Actually to me the orriginal EQ felt very much like a virtual world and less like a game, and they didn´t have any of those

 

 

Problem for me is i have a very hard time for myself to indentify what exactly gives me that virtuall world feeling, i however realise that games like GW2 really feel like games and not like worlds .



Perhaps its the trend to have every aspect of a game itemized, tracked, displayed by a numerical value, and put into an achievement system. You cant escape the "game" so to speak. You cant explore over that hill without a message popping up on the screen saying "DISCOVERED THE OTHER SIDE OF THAT HILL! +10 exploration points. Cash in your exploration points for exciting rewards!"

 

things like that run rampant in games these days, so trying to make it feel more organic is difficult with so many artificially imposed reward systems.

Fully agree with you on this, the only thing i want to see in numbers are my own stats and the stats on my gear...  But no floating damage numbers in the air or pop ups telling me i got Xp for some dumb actions..

 

We should get away of all those numbers, going back to  hitpoint bars, maybe with a % in it, but nothing more. and get away with mob levels and come bring back the con colors, numbers are killing immersion, and immersion is needed for a virtual world feeling.

Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10704

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

7/17/13 12:54:53 PM#18


Originally posted by Foomerang

Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

Originally posted by BadSpock I think for a game to really have that virtual world feeling it really only needs two major systems in place: 1. Housing 2. Non-combat classes/professions   Another big one that is important to many is: 3. Territorial control PvP (be it faction, guild, RvR, etc.)   These very simple criteria put games like UO, SWG, and EvE in their proper place as true "virtual worlds" - though the housing aspect of EvE is a bit... odd? Non-standard compared to say UO/SWG.  
Actually to me the orriginal EQ felt very much like a virtual world and less like a game, and they didn´t have any of those

 

Problem for me is i have a very hard time for myself to indentify what exactly gives me that virtuall world feeling, i however realise that games like GW2 really feel like games and not like worlds .



Perhaps its the trend to have every aspect of a game itemized, tracked, displayed by a numerical value, and put into an achievement system. You cant escape the "game" so to speak. You cant explore over that hill without a message popping up on the screen saying "DISCOVERED THE OTHER SIDE OF THAT HILL! +10 exploration points. Cash in your exploration points for exciting rewards!"

things like that run rampant in games these days, so trying to make it feel more organic is difficult with so many artificially imposed reward systems.




We could describe that aspect of Virtual Worldness like so:

If the world that a player occupies has content that doesn't relate to the player's progression in the world, which the player can choose to explore or participate in, then the world will feel more like a virtual world rather than a game world.

Does that sound OK?

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  User Deleted
7/17/13 12:55:03 PM#19


Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

Originally posted by Foomerang  

Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

Originally posted by BadSpock I think for a game to really have that virtual world feeling it really only needs two major systems in place: 1. Housing 2. Non-combat classes/professions   Another big one that is important to many is: 3. Territorial control PvP (be it faction, guild, RvR, etc.)   These very simple criteria put games like UO, SWG, and EvE in their proper place as true "virtual worlds" - though the housing aspect of EvE is a bit... odd? Non-standard compared to say UO/SWG.  
Actually to me the orriginal EQ felt very much like a virtual world and less like a game, and they didn´t have any of those     Problem for me is i have a very hard time for myself to indentify what exactly gives me that virtuall world feeling, i however realise that games like GW2 really feel like games and not like worlds .
Perhaps its the trend to have every aspect of a game itemized, tracked, displayed by a numerical value, and put into an achievement system. You cant escape the "game" so to speak. You cant explore over that hill without a message popping up on the screen saying "DISCOVERED THE OTHER SIDE OF THAT HILL! +10 exploration points. Cash in your exploration points for exciting rewards!"   things like that run rampant in games these days, so trying to make it feel more organic is difficult with so many artificially imposed reward systems.
Fully agree with you on this, the only thing i want to see in numbers are my own stats and the stats on my gear...  But no floating damage numbers in the air or pop ups telling me i got Xp for some dumb actions..

 

We should get away of all those numbers, going back to  hitpoint bars, maybe with a % in it, but nothing more. and get away with mob levels and come bring back the con colors, numbers are killing immersion, and immersion is needed for a virtual world feeling.



Im with you on that

  ReallyNow10

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/11/10
Posts: 1654

Don't give us stories. Give us worlds and we will make our own stories.

7/17/13 12:56:18 PM#20
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
What MMo feels most like a virtual world and least like a game, and why do you think so?

Early U.O. and early EQ.  The reason being that these games did not micromanage the players' paths and allowed them to set out and explore freely (within their abilities) a mysterious world.  There was no instancing (in the true sense) and the world environment was shared with players who fought, traveled, crafted, bartered and sold, and socialized; all giving the feeling of a medieval community.  Your character LIVED in the game world.

No single player design will ever match that.  Oh, it might give you an interesting once-through experience, but there is minimal cooperation/interaction with other players, minimal choices (you are on a path), and such a world feels like a collection of stage backdrops.

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